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Even Further Beyond [Complete]

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Shard said:
Due to Kong Zang, we'd just let him annihlate the Fates, you mean?

Wouldn't be more practical to make them enslave themselves to Nameless, in addition to changing their values structure so they *Want* to remain so?

Then we can get IFB-type powers to boost ourselves even more, couldn't we?
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They were only able to grant In Full Bloom to the Heroine if they gave us a correspondingly large bribe. I suspect if we just bind them to serve us then they'll still be limited by balance-type considerations, whereas if we wish for power directly we might get around it since the wish will be compensated for by us having to beat the Heroine first.
 
Shard said:
The Heroine would still be powerlevelling, safety isn't truly guaranteed at any point. True Safety is only obtained when all enemies are dead.
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We can, and probably will, be at the point where Heroine can't realistically outscale us. Remember, Cursebearer didn't care if she got her super luck and instant reincarnation, and he was only Titan level in combat with rather slow growth..

Either way, Empires getting destroyed is actual vector of attack that will work against us, especially given that they have massive target footprint for Fate to work with. Simply getting one in our Vault heavily reduces the danger Heroine poses.
RedV said:
Plus, Vault is on our body, so if we get punched in the Chakras too hard the Diagram might break, killing people inside. Indestructible/Breachable will help a lot with that, but then we know for sure Kong has significant spatial magic so we might be giving him a way to breach directly into our Inner Reality, which spells bad things.
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If True Alchemist is disrupted, we have much bigger things to worry about than our Vault getting destroyed.
 
Personally, I like the idea of wishing ourselves off the rock, use Ring+Diagram to power up to Titan IV, return and kill Zang Kong. Conquer everything.
 
Shard said:
Personally, I like the idea of wishing ourselves off the rock, use Ring+Diagram to power up to Titan IV, return and kill Zang Kong. Conquer everything.
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You're assuming it's possible to cultivate on Earth, which is probably not true:
Rihaku said:
The physics of Earth do not contain Thriesis flowers! To get a sense of a civilization's intellectual advancement, one should look at what they have produced with their minds alone, in the context of their metaphysics.
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Shard said:
Personally, I like the idea of wishing ourselves off the rock, use Ring+Diagram to power up to Titan IV, return and kill Zang Kong. Conquer everything.
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Now that's a sequel hook. Use the Fates to send us to another world with compatible magic systems, grow even more OP, and then build ourselves a portal and off Kong.

Of course, the Celestial Orbs granted by the Fates may be tied to their existence, or even to this world specifically. It might be safer to use our wish to consume the Fates and their power into ourself, if the odds still don't look good when he's about to break out.
 
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And Centre is being ignored again. Alas, looks like we'll never get around to seeing the sects. And we just eliminated Suizhen's unwillingness to use Forbidden Techniques too. Isn't it sad, Mr. Emperor?

Wolfy said:
I mean, it's not like we have impossibly loyal follower who is ready to mutilate his body and forgo his revenge just to get some scraps from our table! :V
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And she has the Devil in her head, too! He's even giving her forbidden magic powers.
 
RedV said:
And Centre is being ignored again. Alas, looks like we'll never get around to seeing the sects. And we just eliminated Suizhen's unwillingness to use Forbidden Techniques too. Isn't it sad, Mr. Emperor?


And she has the Devil in her head, too! He's even giving her forbidden magic powers.
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...Does that make Xiaoling our Redfort?
 
Rihaku has said we have time before elves fall. Hence,

[X] Tomb of the Netherine
 
Also, we have 0.25BP bounty, but i won't be capable of working on it today. Here's previous character sheet i've made, after Expedition Planning update.

This is what we got in meantime:
Tyranshal's Extirpation - The spell he is working on currently, a Grand Diagram of Essence. Banishes a soul and attendant mind into the outer darkness beyond the reach of all material and worldly forces. They are then free to undertake an existence of contemplation. After the soul is cast out, destruction of the Diagram accomplishes nothing - they are already beyond the reach of such magics.
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[ ] Learn Llweyn's Prodigious Might - Nameless desires raw combat power to defend against collateral damage from the incoming Sects.
-[ ] Go Beyond - A fully mastered Might yields a stage at this juncture, enough to bring Nameless to effective Reality Forming. Add in his Quickening and he'd be a formidable deterrent.
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You have full benefits in Vane magic research vote
Tyranshal's Amplification (Cultivation var.) - The vicious glyph laid by Tyranshal to entrap any Cultivator of strength sufficient and wisdom insufficient to breach his sanctum. Now defanged, this Grand Diagram of Force dramatically (but safely) amplifies the Energy of All and Nothingness generated by a Cultivator's internal realm. For materials-focused Cultivators like Nameless and his Lackeys, this results in a total Cultivation speed increase of roughly 50% for any who sit within the center of the Diagram's focusing array. Up to five Cultivators can benefit at one time, though the circle can only comfortably seat one.
-[ ] Go Beyond Amplification [1 Beyond Point] - Fundamental improvements in array efficiency and focusing purity allow the Diagram to triple the Cultivation speed of any beneficiaries, but the increased precision required removes the margin of diffusion error. Only one target may benefit at a time, but the array becomes small enough that it is man-portable when folded.
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Tyranshal's Cerebration - When the stars are right, the caster plumbs the unthinkable vastness of the cosmos, combs through filaments of sun-stuff and fate-spun tethers of dross, drifts like a struck tuning-fork through the tenor of the celestial spheres, and arrives - irrevocably, inescapably, impossibly - at an answer. Scarce fragments of truth may he find, but know with a Sage's certainty that they are true, and moreover relevant to the caster's path.

Can be safely cast once per calendar year at immense but impermanent cost in strength, selfhood, and sanity; further castings suffer rapidly exponentiating cost. Delivers accurate knowledge about any subject. The more information the caster already has to go on, the more effective is this spell. Care should be taken that the caster not be allowed to perform drastic actions of any kind in the immediate aftermath of this spell.

-[ ] Go Beyond Tyranshal's Cerebration [1 Beyond Point] - Knowledge delivered is substantially more likely to be actionable by the caster. Casting frequency is unaffected, but the grievous personal cost of one's first cast per calendar year is effectively nullified. The minimum quantity of information delivered (in the case of a target about whom the caster is effectively ignorant) is tripled.
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[ ] Titanomachy - You set out on adventure in order to discover and master the obscure and potent spells of the Diagram. You have done so, and acquired enough Cultivation modifiers to see you through to the Heroine's awakening, if necessary. Now is the time to reap the rewards of boldness, at least for a span. Nameless will pursue a fairly optimized plan to consolidate power and work for as long as he can reasonably push himself. Afterwards, you feel you ought to be ready and able to take on the greatest challenges this world has to offer.

*Cultivate to Mid Soul Chrysalis, Master Kleinvarr's Greater Refining, then travel to the Ruby Court for access to a larger Cultivation materials market. Prodigious Might aids in travel times.
*Cultivate up to Peak Soul Chrysalis, then forge an Artifact to augment Tyranshal's Amplficiation, dropping down to the Peak of Organ Refining. Nameless estimates he can get the multiplier up to x4 from x3.
*Go Beyond Organ Refining
*Cultivate back up to Peak Soul Chrysalis to forge the Perfecting Artifact for the Organ Refining Stage, dropping down to low Soul Chrysalis
*Cultivate back up to Peak Soul Chrysalis

If you have BPs at this point (you need 2, you currently have 1 and change):

*Go Beyond Soul Chrysalis
*Cultivate up to Peak Dao Cleaving, forge the Perfecting Artifact for Soul Chrysalis
*Cultivate back up to Peak Dao Cleaving again, ending at low-mid Titan combat strength and Ascendant Titan Forging capacity + True Alchemist
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[ ] Accept - It's kind of extreme, but her intentions are pure. Suizhen Loyalty adds four additional stages, becoming Loyalty++++++++, [Fanatically Devoted]. 90% chance to resist Loyalty-, you may attempt to talk her out of killing Zang Kong without Loyalty penalties, Suizhen automatically accepts Forbidden Technique usage on behalf of Nameless or his allies.

*Gain [Truth Seeking Eyes], allowing you to expend Mastermind Points as if they were Beyond Points for purposes of the Truth. No other benefits, this eye variant is highly specialized and was developed uniquely by Suizhen for this purpose.
*Suizhen develops [Truth Seeking Eyes] as well, granting the ability to achieve Beyond Stages as if she were a Diagram Magus. You will still have to figure out how to safely drop her to Ego Barrier.
*Xiaoling Loyalty-, Gain [Stain of Heterodoxy]. Your Eyes can't be covered by illusions.
*[Stain of Heterodoxy] is only a small social malus, but keeping the eyes perfectly integrated taxes your True Regeneration, reducing its speed to 1/4th the original.
*You will, with difficultly, be able to develop the Eyes of Kong further as your stage improves. Who knows what crazy powers will avail you?!
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[ ] Forge Haltsuphrect's Quickening Enhancer - You would prefer to wait until you reach Peak Reality Forming, as the Quickening is one of the most difficult spells to improve upon, but needs must. Accept a lesser version now in exchange for more subjective time to prepare for the Heroine - but know that the lower time multiplier means you will be slower than you planned for when actually facing her. This will drop your combat power down, as per the option above.

*You'll have to decide on an Artifact to create.
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This is Chronoreactor, which allows us to passively Cultivate. You can find it's description somewhere after To Face Emptiness.
[ ] Be Ambivalent - Nameless isn't stupid enough to deny Zang Kong to his face, but neither does he feel comfortable committing to this course. This will effectively serve as a denial as the Fates will do everything in their power to prevent Nameless from approaching this choice again with clear eyes. While Zang Kong will not annihilate you immediately, it is likely that he will do so when he awakens in five years - and you are pretty certain even your rate of growth won't allow you to catch him by then. But perhaps if the stars are right...

*Upgrades A Charmed Life to - The Fated Overlord -
*Every time you achieve an undiscounted Even Further Beyond, you immediately gain 2 more BP as power compounds upon power.
*So long as you oppose Zang Kong's agenda, you will have Fate's full support, granting a major bonus to all combat, persuasion, and forging actions.
*By taking a character into your service, so long as this does not serve Zang Kong you may negate any Dooms upon them. You are immune to Dooms of any form.
*The Fated Overlord does not expire when you turn eighteen.
*The Heroine is inclined to make peace with you and will try to negotiate some form of settlement that is mutually acceptable. Almost impossible given A Throne of Stars, but you might be able to negotiate a temporary ceasefire of a few thousand years.
*You won't be complicit in unleashing the Elder Beast of Reason upon half of accessible Existence. The Fates may be childish and spoiled, unnecessarily cruel, but Zang Kong is the ultimate embodiment of amoral power. He cannot be allowed to succeed.
*You will likely have to fight Zang Kong in five years and will almost certainly lose. The Fates are powerful, but there is always a greater power. With a conflux of circumstance, they have bought you what time they can. The rest is up to you... and the Heroine.
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[ ] Regalia of the Knight-Errant - "S-sir! It's vain, and i-improper to ask, but... I w-wish to be b-beautiful, too!"

You suppose it would have come to this eventually, whether or not Xiaoling provoked her. You have the power of Artifice which wields unparalleled versatility. Suizhen has asked for an Artifact to transform her body, thereby allowing her both to revise her Cultivation base and improve her looks. This is certainly within your means to provide, but do you wish to indulge your praetorian to such a degree? You could forge a runic lace of silver and sky-blue, an implant not unlike your own Perfecting Artifacts, to be placed above her Throat chakra. The sapphire at its heart would be a jewel not unlike the one that adorns your Ring.

This Artifact will allow Suizhen to Go Beyond Ego Barrier. It also grants limited but powerful shapeshifting capabilities, allowing Suizhen to disguise herself without illusions - or, yes, improve her looks to the peak of human attractiveness. In battle, she can alter her musculature, grow bone plating, and cause neural proliferation at will, granting her the equivalent of Further Beyond Organ Refining for combat purposes. The Eyes of Kong cannot be shifted away. Total boost +.75 stages for combat, +.25 stages for general use, plus the utility effects of perfect humaniform shapeshifting - after implantation she will have no true form, so her shapeshifting cannot be dispelled by Diagram or Reality effects. Suizhen Loyalty+, 95% Loyalty- resistance.
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[ ] Liminal Branch - The Philosopher's Stone, taken properly, is not gross material but rather a transcendent insight, an object of the mind that does not merely encompass but masters the key principle of alchemy: As above, so below. The three Runes of Heart, Sacral, and Third Eye together can form a modular sub-Diagram within the supreme Grand Diagram of the Philosopher-King, just as a core insight leads to stunning revelation when properly unfurled.

Nameless may combine the aforementioned Runes to form a Grand Diagram of the Standard Signs. Choose one applicable Grand Diagram to inscribe upon his torso. He instantly learns and is considered to have Gone Beyond for that Diagram, and may further improve that Diagram with Beyond Points over time.
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In addition, having attained Perfected Heterodox Organ Refining and Purified Orichalcum Soul Chrysalis, Nameless benefits from the following effects:

Organ Refining / Sacral Rune: The character's body generates Diagram-viable blood at four times the original pace, roughly neutralizing the impaired True Regeneration from Suizhen's Eyes for purposes of the Blood Sign. +.25 additional stages for purposes of resisting esoteric attacks upon the body.

Soul Chrysalis / Third Eye Rune: Spiritual fortification, while imperfectly correlated with the reservoir that Diagram spells draw upon, nonetheless does offer improvements to casting stamina. Nameless' spell capacity for Battle and Sigil Diagrams is tripled. +.25 additional stages for purposes of resisting esoteric attacks upon the soul or destiny.
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In addition, we have 1MM, and had 2.95 BP as of the last update. We are at Low Dao after making Regalia.

Suizhan should be around Mid Dao now, with Go Beyond in Ego Barrier, Truthseeking Eyes and Regalia. Her Loyalty should be 9.
Xiaoling should be around Low Dao, with Go Beyond in previous three stages and Half-Elf bonus. Her Loyalty should be 5.

It would be nice if someone had time to compile this into something nice-looking!
 
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[X] Journey to the West

On the one hand, I want the Flesh sign so badly! On the other hand, my desire for it is somewhat being challenged for FB Vault purely due to the amazing effects it can have on Suizhen if we send her in there.
 
[X] Tomb of the Netherine
[X] Vault of the Ur-Pharaoh

Really really want the flesh sign, it's EFB form is incredibly attractive. But we can't afford it and it's FB form isn't worth it.
 
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Rihaku said:
You'd probably want to go

Hab 5
Acc 2
Realm 7
Size 5
Sec 5

And let your Artifact raise the Size / Sec / Realm stats. That gets you almost everything you want - Monster spawning, Fate resistance (Sec), and enough space to put a small Empire. Low Acc means it'll still be hard to convince the Empire to actually enter your Vault, of course.

Or you could just not spend BP here and save up for an undiscounted EFB! Not even the Truth can replicate the benefits of an EFB Dao, after all.
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EFB Dao!!!! We need this shiny!
 
Well, if we don't spend any BPs on Vault right now, which we shouldn't, we'd have 2.95+0.5 for Orm+1 for Deliberation+0.25 for character sheet+general BP BPs! That's halfway through having enough for Dao!
 
Tally incoming.
Adhoc vote count started by Conjured Blade on Apr 8, 2018 at 7:19 AM, finished with 157 posts and 42 votes.
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Wolfy said:
This is Chronoreactor, which allows us to passively Cultivate. You can find it's description somewhere after To Face Emptiness.
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Here you go:
Rihaku said:
Chronoreactor, you passively acquire the Energy of All and Nothingness at a multiple* of your current rate without the need to Cultivate actively, combines and integrates with your Tyranshal's Amplification Artifact to turn into a highly-durable breastplate that lets you transfer protection and benefits to others.

*Dao Cleaving: 2.5x, Reality Forming: 2x, Above: 1.5x. 4.0 to 4.9 in only 1.4 months! That's 8 Titan-Grade Artifacts per year (or 4 Stage "8" Artifacts per year), and you can do other stuff while Cultivating! The only time-consuming part left in Dao Cleaving is actually deciding on your Dao. If the ultimate bottleneck is Nameless' motivation, this removes that bottleneck!
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As for my vote:
[X] Tomb of the Netherine
This sounds fun, and we should try and squeeze out any low-hanging fruit from previous ages before looking outside of this reality.
[X] Vault of the Ur-Pharaoh
-[X] Go Further Beyond
We are still a long way off the big fights - we should be taking growth multipliers, not flat increases. Flesh EFB is admittedly a very strong flat increase, but we lose nothing by leaving it until shortly before the fights. Flesh is amazing, but there's no reason to get it now instead of later.

Is there any reason we wouldn't go FB in the Vault? Note that I'm 100% onboard with only spending MMs on Truth.

EDIT: I mean, we can't even get EFB Flesh right now, and the lower stages suck. Why not just get it later, and get a spell that doesn't suck right now and we don't even know the EFB of?
 
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Full Vote:
[X] Tomb of the Netherine
[X] Vault of the Ur-Pharaoh

DarkKing98 said:
Unless you plan on going EFB on Dao, Reality, and Grand, the fact people want to intentionally cripple us by not getting our Dao until we have Truth.
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Technically, we can get Truth scarily fast if we adventure in the Tomb. At most half a year of adventuring, probably less if we use BP. If you want us not to waste BP and to be able to advance Dao as fast as possible, you might as well also vote Tomb.
 
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Deathbybunnies said:
EDIT: I mean, we can't even get EFB Flesh right now, and the lower stages suck.
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The normal Beyond Flesh, which we can get for free, has the x2.2 Cultivation multiplier. Combined with auto-Cultivation and being stuck at Peak Dao because we are waiting for Truth, this means it currently doubles our artifact output. Since there's no need to spend BP on it, we can just spend 3BP on researching a Further Beyond Vault and still upgrade the Flesh spell later if it's in the Liminal slot.
 
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