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Even Further Beyond [Complete]
- Thread starter Rihaku
- Start date
- Original
DarkKing98
Certified Village Idiot
- Location
- USA
And people wonder why I constantly claim that this quest's voters hate Cultivation
That was the grinding option that lost last time. Given the precedent, I don't see it winning next time, as the exact same arguments that made it lose last time will still apply. It's why I'm coming around to the view that if we want to Cultivate we need to move over the border into Kong, as otherwise people will say that the spirit grass is greener on the other side of the fence.
DonutAttack
Self-Requested Ban
- Location
- The factory of pastries
To be honest, I kinda find that choice boring. We can do dungeon-crawling, sure, but they better be some interesting dungeons.
I'm referring to more interesting options that that. Like explicitly searching for Legacy Zones of Ages past. The initial choice between Border Zone and Legacy Zone was a tough one for me, but the risk to Lackies sealed the deal. I really do want to find more Legacy Zones, especially those before Diagram.
EDIT: To clarify, I'm being cheeky here. I don't actually mean I decide between choices through the objective and scientific process of picking the more interesting choice.
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Oh well. It was a nice thought while it lasted.
RedV
Refuelling
- Location
- Right here
We can go to Legacy Zones for resources, ask Family for them, scam people for them, or do so in downtime. I don't want an actual update about hunting for beasts. Doing so in timeskip is acceptable.
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[X] Direct Investigation
[X] Take Out a Loan
[X] +40% Beyond Point Progress
[X] Take Out a Loan
[X] +40% Beyond Point Progress
RedV
Refuelling
- Location
- Right here
Treasure/Relic hunting isn't, at least by me. I voted for Legacy Zone for Priceless Treasure.
However, beast hunting is indeed tedious. Maybe this is fatigue, since I have read lots of beast hunting arcs that essentially do nothing to advance plot.
If we have a choice, it should be done in timeskips, or we should use interesting methods like scams, or get resources from trade, or get them from our Clan/Sect. We don't need to hunt beasts for resources only.
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DkArthas
CAPITAL IS TO BLAME
- Location
- Earth
- Pronouns
- They
The Cultivation resource option clearly stated that we would have also been plundering dungeons for relics and treasures.
That's why I wanted Cultivation resource + Fierce migration...
Edit : Anyway, I am getting out of this thread for a while, my salt level are rising again.
That's why I wanted Cultivation resource + Fierce migration...
Edit : Anyway, I am getting out of this thread for a while, my salt level are rising again.
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RedV
Refuelling
- Location
- Right here
Majority would have essentially been filler. It would be great if it was a actual Legacy Zone, with fellow competitors and interesting stuff. However, as is it wouldn't advance plot by much and would essentially consist of us trying to get C special flower/monster/whatever.
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Rihaku
The Internet
There are some extremely impressive spells in this area, if you can get to the Lich(es) who know them. Spells better than >90% of Priceless Treasures. You may not want every single one, but they fill some substantial holes in your capabilities. There is at least one Lich here who invented a spell you're using right now, and that wasn't the only spell they invented.
That said, at some point you may want to consider the spells and effects you already know. It would only take <2 months to develop and learn Llewyn's Prodigious Might while Cultivating somewhat, and 4 further months to Cultivate to Peak Soul Chrysalis. That would give you peak Reality Forming power in less than 6 months, an improvement of nearly two full Realms. Something to consider after this adventure is resolved (or if you choose Pass).
That said, at some point you may want to consider the spells and effects you already know. It would only take <2 months to develop and learn Llewyn's Prodigious Might while Cultivating somewhat, and 4 further months to Cultivate to Peak Soul Chrysalis. That would give you peak Reality Forming power in less than 6 months, an improvement of nearly two full Realms. Something to consider after this adventure is resolved (or if you choose Pass).
How many liches are there in this area anyway?
And how would we find them? That's pretty much a complete mystery to me, as as far as I can see we have literally no ability that would help to find a lich that's even minimally competent at hiding themselves. And that's whether or not we teach Suizen to see Diagram Magic with her eyes.
I'm also wondering whether it's going to end up being faster to learn or research spells. It seemed to take a long time for Nameless to be taught spells when he had a mentor, and as we saw when Rihaku took down the Scamming option, when talking with other people we're forced back into objective time rather than accelerated subjective time, which is incredibly costly. If we get our general time acceleration a little better, then if it takes longer than a week researching it permanently may well be better.
And how would we find them? That's pretty much a complete mystery to me, as as far as I can see we have literally no ability that would help to find a lich that's even minimally competent at hiding themselves. And that's whether or not we teach Suizen to see Diagram Magic with her eyes.
I'm also wondering whether it's going to end up being faster to learn or research spells. It seemed to take a long time for Nameless to be taught spells when he had a mentor, and as we saw when Rihaku took down the Scamming option, when talking with other people we're forced back into objective time rather than accelerated subjective time, which is incredibly costly. If we get our general time acceleration a little better, then if it takes longer than a week researching it permanently may well be better.
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RedV
Refuelling
- Location
- Right here
Tyranshal, is it you?
(Is Amplification beyond just a meme autocorrect?!)
Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
Well, there's an argument for sneak in plus Mastermind Point, which still leaves us in debt.
Or, you know, top level scamming augmented so we don't end up holding the bag into direct approach, but god forbid people pass up BP progress to get better tools instead. Even though approach directly + MM point scamming equates to a net +1 MM point and greater odds of success. Easily worth the .5 BP that an MM point is worth, and has obvious synergies with our social heavy team.
We can be Meng Hao this day, and when has him ruthlessly scamming his way to the best prizes failed to be more productive than power levelling or leaning on his backing?
Or, you know, top level scamming augmented so we don't end up holding the bag into direct approach, but god forbid people pass up BP progress to get better tools instead. Even though approach directly + MM point scamming equates to a net +1 MM point and greater odds of success. Easily worth the .5 BP that an MM point is worth, and has obvious synergies with our social heavy team.
We can be Meng Hao this day, and when has him ruthlessly scamming his way to the best prizes failed to be more productive than power levelling or leaning on his backing?
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- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
One idea is to find a way to flip the script and have them notice us. If there's some way we can light up like a beacon to Diviners then they might end up coming to us.
Another route is to roll up on a Sect with two Great Seals and try to get them to mobilize in search of Liches. We might, for instance, use Quickening on their Patriarch every so often as payment, or find a Sect that grows herbs and use Alvan's Balm of Growth.
Rihaku
The Internet
Mm, there's a misconception that the beasts and dungeons here are suboptimal compared to the Legacy zone. In terms of pure Cultivation materials, this area is far more reliable than the Legacy zone and boasts a very significant yield. The opportunity of the Legacy zone was to bully other Cultivators (for their stuff) and get a shot at Vane's Priceless Treasures.
Well, it seems like Xiaoling has found one for you already, though it's guarded by a Reality Forming cultivator...
As for how to find them without social connections, I can think of a couple ways. But unless you figure them out yourselves, you'll have to spend a Mastermind Point on Pass to find out!
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I'm just not convinced that these activities are important enough to warrant using .4 to .5 BP equivalent on boosting.
I wish we had more of a conception of what Priceless Treaures are. Can a Grand Solipsist with an appropriate Reality produce them, or are they all objects either naturally formed or from past Ages?
Hey, have we tried using Kleinvarr's Greater Refining on a book we're intimately familiar with?
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And as assumed, they're not dead, so they're not idiots, so that plan doesn't fly.
How would a sect find them when they've continually failed for the past few thousand years? Sounds like a classic definition of insanity, doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.
So we don't actually have to propose plans for Nameless to use as a base for the Pass option Mastermind Points.
Well, given the clarification that 90% of them are less valuable than even regular Diagram spells, then it's fortunate that we didn't try our hand at fief management where they were meant to be one of the upsides, as it seems like they're generally pointless shit we should ignore in future. A Diagram Mage can get 33 spells. There's no way I can see us getting significantly more Priceless Treasures than that. We can create a regular Diagram spell from scratch for certain in less than two months. In that period it seems like we only ever have a small chance of getting a Priceless Treasure. They seem like they'll always be a waste of time.
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DonutAttack
Self-Requested Ban
- Location
- The factory of pastries
[X] Pass
-[X] Expend a Mastermind Point
[X] Take Out a Loan
[X] Choose an 'expend Mastermind point' option this update for free (you must choose this option to Expend any Mastermind points this update)
Spells that exceed 90% of Priceless Treasures? Treasures that we would literally have to enter an extremely dangerous competition for?
We can't pass this up. And the more I think about, the more I realize all our choices thus far set us towards exploiting this: the Ring unlocked the option of negotiation with Liches, and we have to remember the series of long options and all the things we've given up to get to this. We can't allow us to come away with nothing, and that's a good chance with direct choice. If we manage to get such an amazing spell, and then Beyond it, we'd have a spell that's literally better than almost any Priceless treasure. If we manage to snag 2 such spells, we'll have made all the 0.4 BP sacrificed worth every single inch, all without fighting.
Think of it like this: the main costs of Pass are the possibility of not finding another Stronghold, mitigated by a Mastermind point, and Ming taking offense, which doesn't matter now. We don't have to fight, we don't have to scam and risk making enemies of the people that might interfere with our investigation, and we get a chance at finding more than one amazing Strongholds.
Ming simply found the most obvious Lich, and if they were found, I doubt they're the best in the area.
Actually, the real cost for Pass is that we have to think of Plans. This is the high-risk-high-reward option, one that can be mitigated with good plans and creative use of our current skillset (likely revolving around spells given artifacts will take too long and Cultivation doesn't really seem to help too much for all the Cultivators around), with the Mastermind point being backup just in case we mess up.
-[X] Expend a Mastermind Point
[X] Take Out a Loan
[X] Choose an 'expend Mastermind point' option this update for free (you must choose this option to Expend any Mastermind points this update)
Spells that exceed 90% of Priceless Treasures? Treasures that we would literally have to enter an extremely dangerous competition for?
We can't pass this up. And the more I think about, the more I realize all our choices thus far set us towards exploiting this: the Ring unlocked the option of negotiation with Liches, and we have to remember the series of long options and all the things we've given up to get to this. We can't allow us to come away with nothing, and that's a good chance with direct choice. If we manage to get such an amazing spell, and then Beyond it, we'd have a spell that's literally better than almost any Priceless treasure. If we manage to snag 2 such spells, we'll have made all the 0.4 BP sacrificed worth every single inch, all without fighting.
Think of it like this: the main costs of Pass are the possibility of not finding another Stronghold, mitigated by a Mastermind point, and Ming taking offense, which doesn't matter now. We don't have to fight, we don't have to scam and risk making enemies of the people that might interfere with our investigation, and we get a chance at finding more than one amazing Strongholds.
Ming simply found the most obvious Lich, and if they were found, I doubt they're the best in the area.
Actually, the real cost for Pass is that we have to think of Plans. This is the high-risk-high-reward option, one that can be mitigated with good plans and creative use of our current skillset (likely revolving around spells given artifacts will take too long and Cultivation doesn't really seem to help too much for all the Cultivators around), with the Mastermind point being backup just in case we mess up.
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Alectai
Speaks Words of Wisdom... On occasion
Bare minimum, MM point scamming means that we utterly avoid negative consequences. It gives us time to sharpen our wits, and acquire leverage with our socially powerful party. We use that leverage to get into their perimeter, and then turn our scamming on the sect.
Best case scenario? We drive them off in defeat, and the Lich Lord owes us a debt, which we can use to scam them in turn.
Spend a month objective, and get a shot at rolling up every party involved with none being the wiser. Sounds good, right?
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.. well, that's much better than what i had in mind.
Mhm, easy way would be making Artifact that uses Space Sign to locate Vaults.
Horribly inefficient tho.