Even Further Beyond [Complete]

It's still really disappointing that the thread has the consistency of a mayfly. We voted to fix Spoiled update before last, and we're now ignoring the opportunity to do so because a shiny has appeared and something has come up. There will always be a new shiny and something will always come up. The Fates will ensure it, as Spoiled is probably their most effective handle on Nameless, as they can manipulate his environment, and Spoiled is very environmentally dependent.

Every time we put off fixing Spoiled, it's going to get harder and harder and we're going to suffer more and more.

And before anyone says anything, Nameless can be spoiled without being Spoiled. It's the inhuman extremes of a Heroic Passion inflicted by the Fates that deforms Nameless' free will that needs to go.

Stageless is still 'Dao Cleaving' according to the blurb for it, and it's only new Stages like Reality Masking where we can invest BP since we already possess EFB Dao Cleaving.

All Paths can't be EFB Dao Cleaving if the Stageless intervals are part of Do Cleaving, as the ((Even) Further) Beyond Cultivation Stages are additional Cultivation stages that you take at the end of a conventional one, when you've finished it.

It's the same as why we can only go Beyond Immortal Awakening when we would otherwise breakthrough from that stage to the next.
 
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So our new plan is to not get True Incarnation by the time the Heroine shows up, passing up a Hidden Synergy and the protection from Fated Love? I guess it could be worse, we could be preventing ourselves from getting the chance to All Paths away our bond to the empire via stopping it from reaching the brink of collapse.

Oh wait, we are.

So the new plan is to leave all the vulnerables to the Heroine open in hopes she takes pity on our inability to avoid them?
Adhoc vote count started by UDwarf on May 13, 2018 at 1:46 PM, finished with 730 posts and 85 votes.
 
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So our new plan is to not get True Incarnation by the time the Heroine shows up, passing up a Hidden Synergy and the protection from Fated Love? I guess it could be worse, we could be preventing ourselves from getting the chance to All Paths away our bond to the empire via stopping it from reaching the brink of collapse. Oh wait, we are. So the new plan is to leave all the vulnerables to the Heroine open in hopes she takes pity on our inability to avoid them?

Yep.

Keep Spoiled, so minimise long term gains
Expose ourself to a Spoiled proc by leaving the Isles of the Elves.
Keep mental vulnerability
Keep Empire dependence
Lose hidden synergy
 
Moar indecisiveness


[x]Pursuit of the Truth
[x]Strategic Complexion
[x]Open the Way
[x]Amplification

Edit: Can somone explain the logic behind Pursuit of the Truth+Extra Diligent lettings us All Paths Away our dependence on the empire? I've forgotten it, but I presume that is what people are referring to.

Edit2: Looks like we are in argument territory for which 2 item combination of Extra Diligent/Pursuit of the Truth/Strategic Complexion wins, and argument territory for whether or not True Form of Balance or True Amplification wins.
Adhoc vote count started by Conjured Blade on May 13, 2018 at 1:55 PM, finished with 735 posts and 85 votes.
 
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Moar indecisiveness


[x]Pursuit of the Truth
[x]Strategic Complexion
[x]Open the Way
[x]Amplification

Edit: Can somone explain the logic behind Pursuit of the Truth+Extra Diligent lettings us All Paths Away our dependence on the empire? I've forgotten it, but I presume that is what people are referring to.
Weaken empire through inaction till we are disadvantaged by it being in mighty danger of falling, I think? Do not think it is smart or viable way to remove lifelink.
 
I actually think getting the Truth is a good choice, but Strategic Complexion is far more important IMO. So, strategic voting for the win!

[X]Extra Diligent
[X]Strategic Complexion
[X]Open the Way
[X]Amplification
 
Edit: Can somone explain the logic behind Pursuit of the Truth+Extra Diligent lettings us All Paths Away our dependence on the empire? I've forgotten it, but I presume that is what people are referring to
As per the Strategic Complexion blurb, the empire is in danger. If it begins to collapse, we will be forced by our Drawback to act to prevent it. That has a solid chance of being a significant disadvantage, letting us drop the Drawback as the chapter ends, so likely right before the Heroine would be my guess.

Conversely, right now we aren't being forced to act, so this isn't a direct effect of the Drawback, nor is it as significant an investment as we could be making, so I'm significantly less happy assuming dealing with anything that might be happening now would be a significant disadvantage. If, as I believe, it isn't, then by taking Strategic Complexion we are preventing ourselves from getting a chance to deal with the Drawback now, before the Heroine pops up and starts making things worse.
 
This is the time when we should be preparing for facing the Heroine and working toward getting IA.

Thats why we need both Truth and Diligent. Once she is dead, the empire will not matter. In any case, I don't think the empire is in any danger of falling in a single year. It may get worse but we can deal with it. We are of Trans-titanic power, who the fuck can oppose us? Don't let Fates stop us from removing our weaknesses. We need both Truth and Necromancy power.
 
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This is the time when we should be preparing for facing the Heroine and working toward getting IA.

Thats why we need both Truth and Diligent. Once she is dead, the empire will not matter. In any case, I don't think the empire is in any danger of falling in a single year. It may get worse but we can deal with it. We are a of Trans-titanic power, who the fuck can oppose us? Don't let Fates stop us from removing our weaknesses. We need both Truth and Necromancy power.

Or losing spoiled if a miracle somehow happens.
 
As per the Strategic Complexion blurb, the empire is in danger. If it begins to collapse, we will be forced by our Drawback to act to prevent it. That has a solid chance of being a significant disadvantage, letting us drop the Drawback as the chapter ends, so likely right before the Heroine would be my guess.

Conversely, right now we aren't being forced to act, so this isn't a direct effect of the Drawback, nor is it as significant an investment as we could be making, so I'm significantly less happy assuming dealing with anything that might be happening now would be a significant disadvantage. If, as I believe, it isn't, then by taking Strategic Complexion we are preventing ourselves from getting a chance to deal with the Drawback now, before the Heroine pops up and starts making things worse.

And, going off that, if we're going to do Strategic Complexion we might as well do Pursuit of the Truth too. I would like to see both of our companions again. Be sure to smooth any ruffled feathers from the marriage. I imagine that Xiaoling in particular will be harshly affected by it, especially since we are also going to get rid of Spoiled.
 
Merely moderating it. It's very unlikely we will remove it but it may be a good step toward somewhat controlling it, even if it is to a small extent. Which is the likely result. But every small step counts!
 
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And, going off that, if we're going to do Strategic Complexion we might as well do Pursuit of the Truth too. I would like to see both of our companions again. Be sure to smooth any ruffled feathers from the marriage. I imagine that Xiaoling in particular will be harshly affected by it, especially since we are also going to get rid of Spoiled.
Yeah, if we have to do Complexion then Pursuit at least gets rid of one of the problems we have. I'd really rather not do Complexion, though. Honestly, the other two leaders seem like a better pair, and at least they synergize well for a straight rush for dealing with the Heroine.
Adhoc vote count started by UDwarf on May 13, 2018 at 2:39 PM, finished with 743 posts and 85 votes.
 
Oh, boy. Truly a magnificent build-vote.
So much utility in pretty much every option!
Now to count possible combinations.
Since it's one sigil, one battle, one grand, then I am just going to multiply all numbers together, thus coming to a combination of all possible choices.
1)Sign of Knowledge
4 sigils
3 battle
4 grand

4x3x4 = 48
2)Sign of Seeming
5 sigils
4 bat
3 grand

5x4x3= 60
3)Sign of Death
4 sigils
3 battle
4 grand

4x3x4 = 48
4)Sign of Space
3 sigils
4 battle
4 grand

3x4x4 = 48
5)Sign of Stone
5 sigils
3 battle
3 grand

5x3x3 = 45
6)Sign of Force
4 sigils
5 battle
3 grand

3x5x3 = 45
7)Sign of Flesh
5 sigils
5 battle
3 grand

5x5x3 = 75

And now for the total possible combinations:
48x60x48x48x45x45x75 = 1007769600000
JESUS. CHRIST.
One trillion seven billion seven hundred sixty-nine million six hundred thousand choices.
1007769600000 choices.
or
One trillion seven billion seven hundred sixty-nine million six hundred thousand choices.

That's quite a few possibilities.
Hopefully that trans-titanic wits will help him out a bit...
 
Don't forget to pick Diagrams for your Shadow too!
Right...
...
2015539200000 choices.
or
Two trillion fifteen billion five hundred thirty-nine million two hundred thousand choices.
Yeah, maybe Meiling and Shadow could help out too? There's just so much.
Oh, and speaking of Shadow- his choices will be even more complicated. After all:
With the Mental Partition, the Ego and Shadow can have different loadouts. Currently, both retain the internalized Diagrams of pre-Partition. However, certain Diagrams cannot find purchase on the Praxis Form of the Shadow, or interact oddly with the two-as-one nature of the Nameless One.
The Shadow, whose form is a matter of mind, can contort his shape to cast dozens of times faster, assuming the shape of a razor whip of Ignition that convulses through thousands of Sigils in a thunderstorm cascade. Certain Diagrams may not be accelerated to this extent, requiring the bodyplan and idiosyncrasies of the Humans it was designed for.
We need to consider the differences of the much-more-flexible shadow.
Certain Diagrams gain a whole new level of potential when it's speed of casting is multiplied, and some of them may interact badly or not at all with it. Oh, and some may work badly for Nameless too, since they "interact oddly" with dual-mind nature of Nameless...

Congratulations, @Addio. You went Even Further Beyond in the scope of build votes.
I don't think @Rihaku ever made a build-vote this complicated.
 
...

This build vote surpasses all limits, truly. Calling it the father of all build votes is an insult to its genius - why, it ought to be the grandfather of all build votes!

I feel so excited for Earth-24, clearly Rihaku-24 has exceeded all limits and mastered the legendary Ultra Build Vote, where all actions become a build vote.
 

That's not actually right, you need to-

You actually need to square, not multiply by 2. The Shadow has as many choices as we do, and they're all independent of ours. Total, then, is 1,015,599,566,684,160,000,000,000 possible combinations. Also known as way too many.

(And, as mentioned, there are always Praxis Points we could invest, if we really want to.)

Yeah, that. Ninjas.
 
And, going off that, if we're going to do Strategic Complexion we might as well do Pursuit of the Truth too. I would like to see both of our companions again. Be sure to smooth any ruffled feathers from the marriage. I imagine that Xiaoling in particular will be harshly affected by it, especially since we are also going to get rid of Spoiled.

I'm not sure. It's all about damage control: the Empire is falling apart, our extrusion is a dick and Truth should be pursued. However dealing with the Empire crumbling and the Extrusion are both time sensitive while there's a chance we could go for Truth later on. It's not so much about our Lieutenants as about avoiding catastrophes.
 
Mhm. I don't think the Empire is as fragile as to not survive a single year. Nameless will likely decide to intervene if things really get that fucked.
 
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Mhm. I don't think the Empire is as fragile as to not survive a single year. Nameless will likely decide to intervene if things really get that fucked.
I mean thought that about the elves and were about to spend months in a dungeon while the Grand Offensive was launched without us knowing and Xiaoling's dad was forced down. It's not an issue of fragility, per say, but catching things before the spiral too far out of control. At their current level of damage the elves are willing to let their Queen sacrifice herself for a year of protection from just a few weeks of sustained attack, they'd be in a lot worse straights if we didn't catch it early. Same principle applies here, smother the fire before it turns into a blaze we have to lose a ton more power ups in opportunity cost to protect. Here its a single choice and we can power up alongside of it, who knows how much it will dominate if we let it swell.
 
Huh. Their queen? Was thiriesal really the Queen...I must have missed that.

Anyway, I would vastly prefer neutralizing the chances of Fates fucking with our head before deciding important shit.
 
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