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Even Further Beyond [Complete]

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Shard said:
Tyranshal very likely had all 11 signs, but I do like the theory that a Sage does indeed ditch all their other titles. Of course, Tyranshal being Tyranshal, he could have dumped them either way.

Maybe they just couldn't figure nice names for Arch-Fate or Hemoarch. :V
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If they couldn't even figure out something for Fate, imagine how Arch-Essence or Arch-Truth would torture the Diagram parliament. The world's greatest minds all huddled around a thesaurus to make a new XArch; I can see the fractiousness Kong complained of!

Imagine; is the Truth of the Magus or from the Magus? Should it be Verarch or Overarch?

The consecutive salt after all these multiple fashion votes is palpable to me, like twelve versions of the Great Banner War one after the other. Schadenfreude makes me happy deep in my heart.
 
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RedV said:
Flight actually was a large breaking of the limits of Solar Exaltation. Normally you cannot just lob an Artifact in your Exaltation (or your memories for that matter) and bequeath it to your successor. That's not something that was possible for Solars, to directly find a much more powerful version of Glorious Solar [] , which was already at limits of efficiency for a Solar charm.

Odyssial seems to have directly altered function of GSS, since Solars don't have repurchase mechanic except for that one Archery charm I believe, and if that alteration depended on a higher-Essence custom charm Uly would likely have to learn that Charm with GSS to access Ambition.
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Fair. Still, it isn't the sort of gap which would really help with the limits he's running up against, even if it is impossible to do with a normal Exaltation.

Shard said:
Maybe they just couldn't figure nice names for Arch-Fate or Hemoarch. :V
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If people care, the Fate "-arch" term would probably be Moirarch, as the Greek root for Fate is, well, there are options but somehow I don't think Theosphatonarch sounds good:p

Edit: Alternatively, maybe Anankarch? I don't know there, but there are options.
 
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Shard said:
Like what about the Truth?

Trutharch? Archtruth?

This doesn't even make sense!
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Verarch horribly bastardises uses latin root for Truth. Overarch is a joke about how it is the lord of all the preceding Signs.

Both seem pretty appropriate for it, actually. If only Diagram knew latin! It'd save them at least one despairing vote.

UDwarf said:
If people care, the Fate "-arch" term would probably be Moirarch, as the Greek root for Fate is, well, there are options but somehow I don't think Theosphatonarch sounds good:p

Edit: Alternatively, maybe Anankarch? I don't know there, but there are options.
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I would like a nice Fate-Arch title so we can taunt the Fates about being better than them in every way before we kill them and I like the sound of Moirarch. I do hope our Fate FB Grand lets us qualify for that position.
 
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RedV said:
Verarch horribly bastardises uses latin root for Truth. Overarch is a joke about how it is the lord of all the preceding Signs.

Both seem pretty appropriate for it, actually. If only Diagram knew latin! It'd save them at least one despairing vote.
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Why not just keep the Greek theme, and go with Aletheiarch? I actually like the sound, at least.
 
UDwarf said:
Why not just keep the Greek theme, and go with Aletheiarch? I actually like the sound, at least.
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Chronarch (only Arch-title known for Ascendant signs) is based on latinisation of greek Khronos to my knowledge. I think that Ascendant Arches are therefore latin based to some extent, hence using latin bastardizations might be more appropriate.
 
RedV said:
Chronarch (only Arch-title known for Ascendant signs) is based on latinisation of greek Khronos to my knowledge. I think that Ascendant Arches are therefore latin based to some extent, hence using latin bastardizations might be more appropriate.
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Is it? Huh. I thought the Latin root there was Temp-, so Temparch, which definitely seems silly. Khronarch is somewhat less readable, so I could see the titles being minor adaptations of the Greek, rather than the large departures the fully Latin roots would give. (Ver- is as large a departure from Aleith- as Temp- is from Khron-, I would think, no?)
 
UDwarf said:
Is it? Huh. I thought the Latin root there was Temp-, so Temparch, which definitely seems silly. Khronarch is somewhat less readable, so I could see the titles being minor adaptations of the Greek, rather than the large departures the fully Latin roots would give. (Ver- is as large a departure from Aleith- as Temp- is from Khron-, I would think, no?)
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Yeah, my lack of attention in latin is screwing up my roots here. Baenlixnaire was definitely a Chronarch though, so maybe it is minor deviations from greek.

Latin roots would also make blood Sanguinarch strictly, and that sounds as silly as Temparch. I think Greek is definitely better in that case to avoid our new title sounding stupid.

On the quest to find a greek Essence root, then. Ousiarch seems to be correct from Aristotle's use of it, and feels appropriate. Are there more suitable words to represent the lifeforce / nature of being thing Essence is here?
 
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It'd be Veritarch. Also, you're never going to be as powerful as the Accursed in any value, the entire point of his existence is to stop power level debates.

Current vote count?
 
Tally incoming
Adhoc vote count started by Conjured Blade on May 10, 2018 at 11:26 AM, finished with 440 posts and 76 votes.
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Amplification is pretty close! If this keeps up and we manage to deny the waste a Beyond point we'll be in shooting range of a nice, desirable FB like Elvegekere's Protector - a big boost to Strategic Complexion and further actions since we can essentially act in two places at once.

Come on, Prodigious Might / Elder Beast voters! You guys can tip it one way or the other here with well-placed votes, so please consider switching to either of Balance or Amplification if you have a preference.
 
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I don't really understand pursuing another Truth diagram here. Which Diagram are all of you hoping to get?

One of my main concerns with Incarnation is unlocking Truespell slots before we learn some potentially very important spells like an Essence Grand and other than Truespell slots I don't really see what Incarnation offers that is of a very high priority for us right now.

With Azure Flare on the other hand, I think Act as Truth is unnecessarily risky to use and hugely prefer to not have the capability so that we're more motivated to secure other means of esoteric offense and don't have what could potentially be a suicide button.
 
George said:
I don't really understand pursuing another Truth diagram here. Which Diagram are all of you hoping to get?

One of my main concerns with Incarnation is unlocking Truespell slots before we learn some potentially very important spells like an Essence Grand and other than Truespell slots I don't really see what Incarnation offers that is of a very high priority for us right now.

With Azure Flare on the other hand, I think Act as Truth is unnecessarily risky to use and hugely prefer to not have the capability so that we're more motivated to secure other means of esoteric offense and don't have what could potentially be a suicide button.
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I'm hoping for true incarnation for the quarter stage, more truespell slots, and more fated love resistance. Artifact creation is irrelevant/tangential.

It's being ready for the heroine/a chance at true might/unravel/quickening

Also if we want the principles of truth, we can use Cerebration to ask
 
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George said:
I don't really understand pursuing another Truth diagram here. Which Diagram are all of you hoping to get?

One of my main concerns with Incarnation is unlocking Truespell slots before we learn some potentially very important spells like an Essence Grand and other than Truespell slots I don't really see what Incarnation offers that is of a very high priority for us right now.

With Azure Flare on the other hand, I think Act as Truth is unnecessarily risky to use and hugely prefer to not have the capability so that we're more motivated to secure other means of esoteric offense and don't have what could potentially be a suicide button.
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I think we can just keep Trueslots open and not fill them with True Incarnation. We'll have more important priorities at that time like Strategic Complexion (which is really pretty close to taking it from Truth now).

If not, I think we should come to a consensus independently on which Truespells to take and save Rihaku some trouble.

I would personally desire Quickening assuming we only get 1 slot. If we get two, take Might.
 
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Also that awesome Truthspeaking and that scare most people regardless of cultivation level thingy.
Adhoc vote count started by DkArthas on May 10, 2018 at 1:07 PM, finished with 463 posts and 76 votes.
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Rihaku said:
It'd be Veritarch. Also, you're never going to be as powerful as the Accursed in any value, the entire point of his existence is to stop power level debates.

Current vote count?
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Did Baenlixnaier ever tell Nameless of the conditions for a Mage to acquire an Attainment?

So far I'm imagining:

Apprentice: Unlock any Diagram Sign.
Magus: Unlock all 7 standard signs of the Diagram.
Archmage: Above, and Unlock at least 1(?) Ascendent Sign.
Sage: Unlock all 11 signs, ????
Chronarch: Unlock the Diagram of Time, ??? (Baenlixnaier seems to only have a Sigil spell of Time.)
Arch-Diviner, Arch-Necromancer: Presumably, master completely the Knowledge and Death Signs?
 
Rihaku said:
It'd be Veritarch. Also, you're never going to be as powerful as the Accursed in any value, the entire point of his existence is to stop power level debates.

Current vote count?
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Yeah, realizing the path I was proposing wouldn't actually bypass the Accursed is good because I means sufficient time could actually let us do what I was thinking, rather than it being impossible because it would break the multiverse.

And oh well, I actually like the Greek root for Truth. I guess throwing Latin and Greek at each other and seeing what sticks is acceptable, though. (-arch is Greek, while Veritas is the Latinization of Aletheia, so Veritarch is effectively using the same process that got us, to pull out the only similarly formed word I know, genocide. :p Oh well.)
 
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I choose Truth because 0.5 stage boost and immune to Fated love.

That lock down our defend when "the starcross lover eyes met" happen and we can just shoot her.

Azure flare is burn our essence but worth it as Heroine still on Grand Solipsism level that just tiny essence compare to us before let her go scale up.
 
RedV said:
I think we can just keep Trueslots open and not fill them with True Incarnation. We'll have more important priorities at that time like Strategic Complexion (which is really pretty close to taking it from Truth now).

If not, I think we should come to a consensus independently on which Truespells to take and save Rihaku some trouble.

I would personally desire Quickening assuming we only get 1 slot.
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Well I definitely do not want Quickening. I don't think we have capabilities or face threats that make 'if only we were as fast as our opponent we'd win' true often enough to justify it over other choices.
We aren't allowed to save a Truespell slot here so I'm not going to assume we're going to be willing/allowed later either. Strategic Complexion being important is exactly why I am critical of Truth; I regard Extra Diligent as the minimum necessary action for our personality and so I think we must choose between Complexion and Truth.
DkArthas said:
Also that awesome Truthspeaking and that scare most people regardless of cultivation level thingy.
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It's neat I guess but I really don't think we need it. We are really powerful and can have Aurelia talk to people for us if we really have to.
Conjured Blade said:
I'm hoping for true incarnation for the quarter stage, more truespell slots, and more fated love resistance. Artifact creation is irrelevant/tangential.

It's being ready for the heroine/a chance at true might/unravel/quickening

Also if we want the principles of truth, we can use Cerebration to ask
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I just don't really think we need Fated Love resistance at this point, given our loyalty to Aurelia. A quarter stage is indeed good, but people are turning that down from Palimpsest so I'm unwilling to accept that argument unless the other source gets more support as well.

I just think we'll have better options than those a touch later. I don't think unravel and quickening are important in our situation. We have Open the Way, Necromancer, and our combat power to cover the situations those are useful for.

We can use our Cerebration for information about our Incarnation though, I think, which I view as more important.
skaro said:
I choose Truth because 0.5 stage boost and immune to Fated love.

That lock down our defend when "the starcross lover eyes met" happen and we can just shoot her.

Azure flare is burn our essence but worth it as Heroine still on Grand Solipsism level that just tiny essence compare to us before let her go scale up.
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I just think we can more or less already just shoot her, since we have our Oath with Relia. She can never reduce our Loyalty to Relia below +++++ so selling herself as our one true love won't be easy. Remember that we have Heroic Passion: Vengeful as well to safeguard us.
 
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George said:
I just don't really think we need Fated Love resistance at this point, given our loyalty to Aurelia. A quarter stage is indeed good, but people are turning that down from Palimpsest so I'm unwilling to accept that argument unless the other source gets more support as well.
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Palimpsest's +0.5 Stage is bad because it costs BP. I'm not willing to spend 1 BP on a non- EFB or non- Elder Beast Palimpsest, let alone 3 BP.

True Incarnation meanwhile has 0.25 Stage as a tertiary benefit and also has already been paid for.

I'm willing to take Cerebration over Quickening, it seems to be pretty cool.
 
George said:
I just think we can more or less already just shoot her, since we have our Oath with Relia. She can never reduce our Loyalty to Relia below +++++ so selling herself as our one true love won't be easy.
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Even the full Oath wouldn't have made us immune to Fated Love, and it's not like it's impossible for the Heroine to just raise herself in our eyes — we can remain Loyal to Aurelia while loving someone else. I don't want to rely on resistance to something which could make it all but impossible for us to do anything useful, especially against a Fate who likely specializes in capitalizing on any social opportunities she receives. Also, Incarnation has a Hidden Synergy with Immortal Awakening, and I want to see that, whatever it turns out to be.
 
True Incarnation will probably also protect us from the effect of Viel of Maya, so no worry about Nameless ever turning it to max and losing control.
 
Also, we're just one Aurelia Loyalty rank short of 8, which was the number that made her a Lieutenant. I think we should invest actions in raising her Loyalty rank, and hopefully she can be Lieutenant-ified yet. Even if she can't, having a higher Loyalty from her can only be worth it.
 
RedV said:
Palimpsest's +0.5 Stage is bad because it costs BP. I'm not willing to spend 1 BP on a non- EFB or non- Elder Beast Palimpsest, let alone 3 BP.

True Incarnation meanwhile has 0.25 Stage as a tertiary benefit and also has already been paid for.

I'm willing to take Cerebration over Quickening, it seems to be pretty cool.
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I'd be alright with Cerebration I guess yeah, though we're pretty shit at gathering supporting intel for it.
I think we need more combat power and .25 Stages per BP is likely as good as we're going to get. I don't think we need more EFBs, nor do I really want to risk one not being sufficiently relevant.
Further, our time, Truespell slots, and risk to our life from stuff like Act as Truth and Heavenly Tribulation aren't being given sufficient regard in comparison to BPs.
UDwarf said:
Even the full Oath wouldn't have made us immune to Fated Love, and it's not like it's impossible for the Heroine to just raise herself in our eyes — we can remain Loyal to Aurelia while loving someone else. I don't want to rely on resistance to something which could make it all but impossible for us to do anything useful, especially against a Fate who likely specializes in capitalizing on any social opportunities she receives. Also, Incarnation has a Hidden Synergy with Immortal Awakening, and I want to see that, whatever it turns out to be.
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I don't think we need immunity when we have our vengeance motivation and decent access to information about the situation.
I want to wait to break through to IA until after we kill the Heroine, so I would rather wait to pursue it then.
 
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