To make people actually remember, here's it once for posterity: Minako is nonbinary and uses they/them. This message will be pinned so you people stop getting it wrong and pissing me off. If you get it wrong in the future I'm going to be much less nice, considering you have to scroll past it just to read the quest.
 
>emotional QB

Only a matter of time until MMVP coob shows up? :V
never heard of it must not exist
Oh, it's some obscure fic by some guy named mod, or moodrah, or modirah something. While you might not have heard of it, I assure you it exists: It's existence is immortalized as Fargo (one of DA BEST pmmm fics) claims to be referencing it with its chapter 38's chapter title: "This Story's Dead".

So once again I assure you, this thing exists! :V
 
[REIKA] Quick rundown (You're both magi, you have superpowers, witches bad) (DIFFICULTY 1)

[MINAKO] Thank them for doing the right things. They saved multiple lives today, including their friend, they stayed safe in the barrier, and most importantly they didn't make a contract. You know things are super not okay right now but it's thanks to them that it will get better, you promise.
 
Up to this point I've been shockingly lenient.
I feel like that's mean-spirited? People don't intentionally forget things; punishing people for honest mistakes made without malice, in a leisure activity, is a great way to prevent people from feeling comfortable with participating in the first place.
 
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I feel like that's mean-spirited? People don't intentionally forget things; punishing people for honest mistakes made without malice, in a leisure activity, is a great way to prevent people from feeling comfortable with participating in the first place.
It's an honest mistake the first time, but when people keep making the same (easy to avoid) mistake after being corrected, the conclusion might be that people don't care enough to put the effort in to get pronouns right. Disrespectful, no? It's an even greater way to prevent people from feeling comfortable with participating.
 
It's an honest mistake the first time, but when people keep making the same (easy to avoid) mistake after being corrected, the conclusion might be that people don't care enough to put the effort in to get pronouns right. Disrespectful, no? It's an even greater way to prevent people from feeling comfortable with participating.
Habits are hard to break. Punishing everyone else for it doesn't seem logical.
 
Habits are hard to break. Punishing everyone else for it doesn't seem logical.
I would assume that votes that use the correct pronouns don't share the malus. And in that case all you need to do is a minor change to whatever the plan that you copy pasted is.

This isn't a huge amount of effort that needs to be committed to get it right. And I'm speaking as someone who's made the mistake several times before in this thread.
 
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Habits are hard to break. Punishing everyone else for it doesn't seem logical.
If someone struggles with pronouns it's on them to take three seconds before they post to make sure they got it right. Arguing that the people being disrespected are 'mean-spirited' and discouraging people from participating by enforcing correct pronoun usage isn't the best look.

And I mean, other than what Moid's doing, they've only got two other options - requesting threadbans for the people who fuck up pronouns, or letting them misgender people freely. Which would you prefer?
 
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Habits are hard to break. Punishing everyone else for it doesn't seem logical.
You know I've tried being polite about people messing this up, and that just wound up in people continuing to misgender the character and show that they really don't care about nonbinary identities in the slightest.

And you're right it is unfair to hand out dice punishments. It's unfair and kind of hostile and I'm looking into other ways of making it abundantly clear so that the problem stops happening. I mean there's a reason I didn't hand out punishments until like eleven days after initially making the rule. Because sometimes people just fuck up.
 
It's especially annoying because they/them pronouns are entirely natural-flowing speech. "Minako answered their phone. Minako loves their parents. Did you see Minako? Yea, I saw them go that way. I think they're going on a date."

Like, Jesus.
 
[Minako] Call Madoka. She's the world's foremost expert in the field of teenagers feeling like a useless burden for their magical friends/family.
 
You know I've tried being polite about people messing this up, and that just wound up in people continuing to misgender the character and show that they really don't care about nonbinary identities in the slightest.

And you're right it is unfair to hand out dice punishments. It's unfair and kind of hostile and I'm looking into other ways of making it abundantly clear so that the problem stops happening. I mean there's a reason I didn't hand out punishments until like eleven days after initially making the rule. Because sometimes people just fuck up.
My suggestion would be to bar the offending person from having their vote count in the next/current vote, or something. That way, everyone else isn't punished, it's nothing lasting or hurtful, and, hopefully, gets the job done.

It's especially annoying because they/them pronouns are entirely natural-flowing speech. "Minako answered their phone. Minako loves their parents. Did you see Minako? Yea, I saw them go that way. I think they're going on a date."

Like, Jesus.
...it's kind of the opposite, actually. Most people in this day and age have serious disconnect between referring to a singular person with "they"/"them"/"their" because they were raised with the knowledge that such words are meant to refer to multiple people. That takes time to overcome.
 
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[REIKA] Quick rundown (You're both magi, you have superpowers, witches bad) (DIFFICULTY 1)

[MINAKO] Thank them for doing the right things. They saved multiple lives today, including their friend, they stayed safe in the barrier, and most importantly they didn't make a contract. You know things are super not okay right now but it's thanks to them that it will get better, you promise.
 
...it's kind of the opposite, actually. Most people in this day and age have serious disconnect between referring to a singular person with "they"/"them"/"their" because they were raised with the knowledge that such words are meant to refer to multiple people. That takes time to overcome.
Singular "they" has been a completely standard part of English usage since at least the 1300s, and is used naturally in speech by the vast majority native speakers (including people who have been incorrectly taught not to use it—acquired knowledge of language generally wins out over taught rules—and even by pedants who falsely claim it's ungrammatical). If your first language is English, you probably use "they" as a singular pronoun all the time without thinking about it.
 
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...it's kind of the opposite, actually. Most people in this day and age have serious disconnect between referring to a singular person with "they"/"them"/"their" because they were raised with the knowledge that such words are meant to refer to multiple people. That takes time to overcome.
No one's saying it doesn't take effort. It took me effort and practice when my partner switched to they/them, and I still mess up sometimes. But it's worth the effort to show someone the basic courtesy of respecting their pronouns.
 
Not all languages have gendered pronouns and they can be very confusing. The safe bet is usually he masculine because a) in our patriarchal society it is the defacto normative standard and b) if you offend someone by misgendering them, males defending their masculinity punch harder so avoiding that is not a bad priority.

Not that I will call Mina a he, they've made their preference clear and Swedish does have gendered pronouns (unlike for instance Finnish) and even recently added an nongendered one (hen, as opposed to han/hon for him/her).
I dislike using that one unless specifically requested though.
 
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The safe bet is gender-neutral pronouns in languages that have them—which, again, English does. It's really not that difficult to default to they/them pronouns. People do it all the time naturally when they're referring to someone whose gender they don't know or is unspecified, so why does it suddenly become such a struggle when they know they're referring to a non-binary person? (And it's not like we have to get out of the habit of using some other pronouns for Mina, either, since they've used the same pronouns for the entire story.)
 
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I think it's mostly because, whilst they/them can be used to refer to singular individuals, it's much more common practice to use him/her. I'm pretty sure in school I was actively discouraged from using they/them when talking about individuals (even ones of unknown gender), actually. As for why people refer to Minako specifically as female by mistake, it's probably a mixture of it being PMMM (which has an almost entirely female cast), and Moid usually drawing them with a skirt (which is generally a feminine item of clothing, and thus tunes perception towards 'this person is female' regardless of whether it's true or not).

Though with all that said, by now it's been brought up and made clear enough times that people really shouldn't have to be reminded any more. I can certainly understand Moid getting annoyed at this point.
 
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