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[Dungeoncore SI] Purple glows in Dark Places

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yeah, the disconnect between 'cute smol fuzzy thing with big floofy ears' and 'snarling angry thing with very large, very pointy teeth and a bigass hammer' is one of the fun parts of writing Gremlins.
it's kinda like the semi-doublethink you have to do to write Thanquol properly- on the one hand, he'd this hilariously incompetent idiot, acting more along the lines of a Saturday-morning cartoon villain, sabotaging his own plans with his paranoia about anyone else benefiting from them, backstabbing his own allies with gusto even for the backstab-happy Skaven, and generally being far, far more dangerous to his own race than any of his so-called enemies...
... but at the same time, he's also one of the most terrifyingly powerful Grey Seers to ever walk the earth, second only to Seerlord Kritislik himself, at least in Thanquol's own lifetime, able to command depths of power that most others of his kind can only dream of. and he has, entirely aside that, the luck of the freaking devil himself- no matter how disastrously wrong- or right- his schemes go, he always, always manages to scurry away, alive and largely uninjured, to plot another day.
writing Thanquol well is a delicate balancing act between his utter inability to actually succeed at his schemes (while, naturally, getting all/most other skaven involved with them killed) with his status as a sorcerer that could magically bitch-slap the average wizard into a bloody smear.
 
heh would of been fun if ya put the core in starcraft would of been fun to read how the hell your gremlins dealt with the terrans protoss and zerg and amon
 
I mean, I think the idea of the Gremlins in Warhammer works better than in Starcraft. In Starcraft, all of the factions are mobile. The closest we have to a Core would be Zerg, but even those are mobile. Meanwhile, while the Core is something of an OCP for the Warhammer factions, a race with a homeland that they're all in is nothing that appears odd. In addition, in Starcraft the core would have to be very mobile to actually interfere in the plot.

Though now I've got a plotbunny.
 
Yeah, if I was doing a Core in SC it'd pretty much have to end up in a spaceship, or with access to one, to be relevant. but as ltmauve said, WHF has plenty of precedent for 'races we had no idea existed' or even entirely new ones popping up.
Plus, pitting Gremlins against Skaven was something that interested me, due to the startling similarities the two have, yet the massive differences between them would (even without the SI's impetus) bring them into conflict.
and then there's the reactions of everyone else to consider- unlike the Skaven, Gremlins aren't exactly inclined to hide the existence of the tunnel network that comprises the under-empire- indeed, given they'll be spending large amounts of time fighting the skaven for control of the thing, and have no particular aversion to collapsing tunnels on their enemies and copious use of explosives, I imagine there's going to be a sudden rash of sinkholes in the immediate vicinity of anywhere that's being fought over.
 
and now i happily await your plotbunny lol i would of put the core on a old xel'naga worldship he would need to fix it to get mobile and the world ship has no weapons its xel'naga wimpy ass lifers so he would need to arm it
 
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Mechanis said:
Yeah, if I was doing a Core in SC it'd pretty much have to end up in a spaceship, or with access to one, to be relevant. but as ltmauve said, WHF has plenty of precedent for 'races we had no idea existed' or even entirely new ones popping up.
Plus, pitting Gremlins against Skaven was something that interested me, due to the startling similarities the two have, yet the massive differences between them would (even without the SI's impetus) bring them into conflict.
and then there's the reactions of everyone else to consider- unlike the Skaven, Gremlins aren't exactly inclined to hide the existence of the tunnel network that comprises the under-empire- indeed, given they'll be spending large amounts of time fighting the skaven for control of the thing, and have no particular aversion to collapsing tunnels on their enemies and copious use of explosives, I imagine there's going to be a sudden rash of sinkholes in the immediate vicinity of anywhere that's being fought over.
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Eh you could argue that the Protoss faction would work well with a core. Imagine the giant kaydarin (probably spelled that wrong) crystal on their homeworld is a dungeon core playing Portal with its minions.
 
so I whipped up a quick-and-dirty map of the cavern (not to scale) to help visualize roughly how it's laid out:

the lower plateus in the center have an average five-degree or so grade, but the cavern floor and upper plateu are basically level. the little spit of land in the lake there is mostly occupied by a large natural column that helps the roof stay up.
 
This is rapidly becoming one of my favorite stories that are currently updating and is easily on the path to becoming one of my favorites on this site, and possibly ever. Keep up the good work dude!
 
shypunk said:
and now i happily await your plotbunny lol i would of put the core on a old xel'naga worldship he would need to fix it to get mobile and the world ship has no weapons its xel'naga wimpy ass lifers so he would need to arm it
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Well, seeing as there isn't an ideas thread for this....
The basic idea is we have an amnesic girl inside the core, and she joins up with Raynor at some point and somehow derails the plot. Not sure how, but it's there.
Anyway, the "Dungeon" mechanics would be based on the Creeper World games, most likely 3 (and maybe some stuff we've seen from 4)
-Structures connected via links of limited length. These links are invisible, intangible, and tamperproof.
-Some structures, including the Core, can lift off, fly somewhere, and set down. They have reduced functionality while doing so.
-In order to build or power structures, packets need to be sent to the object. These travel at a certain speed, so when you need a turret set somewhere in a battle line 50 kilometers away...
-Both ammo and building draw from the same power pool, meaning if Core-chan spends too much on building things she could run out of ammo for her guns
-Drones that she can send off to do various tasks (well, mainly RTS tasks. Like scout, reclaim stuff, or kill stuff.)

Those are the core mechanics. Core-chan (or maybe "Orange") would be able to manifest a holographic avatar by any of her structures (that are still attached to the network.)
The plot derailment would probably happen when a) Core-chan defeats an enemy that in canon the group had to run away from, b) Core-chan thumps an enemy hard enough that they run away and do something else, c) Core-chan's presence scares someone off who would have allied with the group. Not sure which storyline I might do.
 
ltmauve said:
Well, seeing as there isn't an ideas thread for this....
The basic idea is we have an amnesic girl inside the core, and she joins up with Raynor at some point and somehow derails the plot. Not sure how, but it's there.
Anyway, the "Dungeon" mechanics would be based on the Creeper World games, most likely 3 (and maybe some stuff we've seen from 4)
-Structures connected via links of limited length. These links are invisible, intangible, and tamperproof.
-Some structures, including the Core, can lift off, fly somewhere, and set down. They have reduced functionality while doing so.
-In order to build or power structures, packets need to be sent to the object. These travel at a certain speed, so when you need a turret set somewhere in a battle line 50 kilometers away...
-Both ammo and building draw from the same power pool, meaning if Core-chan spends too much on building things she could run out of ammo for her guns
-Drones that she can send off to do various tasks (well, mainly RTS tasks. Like scout, reclaim stuff, or kill stuff.)

Those are the core mechanics. Core-chan (or maybe "Orange") would be able to manifest a holographic avatar by any of her structures (that are still attached to the network.)
The plot derailment would probably happen when a) Core-chan defeats an enemy that in canon the group had to run away from, b) Core-chan thumps an enemy hard enough that they run away and do something else, c) Core-chan's presence scares someone off who would have allied with the group. Not sure which storyline I might do.
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I don't wanna be a jerk here, but you should probably make am ideas thread rather than posting this type of thing in other people's stories.
 
I love the story and only have one complaint: you consistently spell plague as plage. Otherwise I love it, unhinged murderfloofs vs backstabbing assrats is very satisfying, especially since I recently started playing Warhammer Fantasy: Left 4- I mean Vermintide.
 
So, since you now have a thunder canon. And magic can make things float, why not make a Vanu Tank thing:D
 
Speaking of things that the Core could make, are we going to see anything else inspired by Spiral Knights?
Gremlins in-game have flamer troops, which might be coming via reverse-engineering. There are the Knockers, which carry around explosives and blow stuff in front of them.
There's also the rocket hammer and black hole bomb that the first Gremlin boss uses.

There are a few Constructs that can be added, but the only one that I think fits the theme are the Gun Puppies (As both Lumbers and Retrodes are kinda... crap in-game, and I can't imagine that they'd translate well outside the game. Tortodrones are more associated with the Fiends anyway, and arty isn't that useful in a tunnel.)

In terms of tech used by the Knights, there's... a variety of interesting bombs they might use. The Brandish line of weapons (swords that blow up stuff in front of the user) is adaptable to Gremlins, given the similarities with the Knockers. The Knight's Shielding tech probably wouldn't fit with the "bite down and yank" CQC strategies that the Gremlins tend to use. Battle sprites... well, maybe borrow some inspiration from those and give them Wolver pets? Not sure if it makes sense for Gremlins to have tamed them.
 
Most new constructs/weapons will be local designs, however Gremlins do have a variety of basic explosives because, much like like real-life-me, core-SI knows how to make dynamite, nitroglycerin, and a number of considerably less safe things that go boom or foosh* due to a mild interest in chemistry (and rocketry), and, well, the thing about chemistry is that a lot of it blows up or catches fire, and the more FUN stuff does so under conditions like 'exposure to oxygen' or 'because you tried to move it' or even 'you looked at it funny'.

As for putting the Lightning Cannon onto a mobile platform, that's going to take a lot of work. Three tons of composite metal-stone (mostly stone) cylinder for the actual 'buisness end' of the the thing, plus another four-and-a-half-or-so in large, bulky power-plant isn't exactly easy to use in a mount that doesn't have to also move around- you'd effectively need a pair of MTVRs to haul one around, not simply due to the weight (which is considerable) but the size is also an issue; the power supply alone takes up more volume than a standard shipping container, not even counting the Cannon itself and the thickass cables needed to connect the former to the latter.
and of course, there's the small matter of aiming once you do get the thing set up. The cannon mounts in the fortresses use large pneumatic armatures (powered by the cannon's power plant) to aim, and even those have issues- as mentioned in the last chapter, the Cannons are heavy and massive and several were dismounted by their crews being a bit too enthusiastic about swinging them around.

Thirdly, the Gremlin-designed cannons are actually quite fragile, compared to the Skaven field guns from which they were reverse-engineered- the 'barrel' is actually a composite of several interlocking stone and metal tubes, rings and pins, all of which have intricate runework on every exposed surface. These arrays interlink to form a three-dimensional spell-matrix- problem is, if any of the 50+ individual parts break or become misaligned, then the whole thing becomes a three-ton paperweight until it can be disassembled, fixed, and reassembled- not an easy task even in a workshop built specifically for the purpose, let alone in the field.
In the field while under fire is right out.
As fixed defensive emplacements they're actually quite impressive, thanks to long range, accuracy, and (heh) shock value, but they are certainly not rugged enough and small enough to use as field guns.

Though to be fair, Dungeon-SI hasn't exactly put much focus into offensive systems, such as field guns, as defensive ones such as fortifications; understandable when they were concentrating on becoming a hard enough target that the Skaven can't just roll over them with sheer numbers and their exotic brand of siege weaponry.
as for any sort of future field piece, it'd be less 'supercool tank' and more along the lines of, say, This or This. Mundane Gremlin technology tends to have a distinctly 'clockwork-punk' feel to it, and their arcane tech is all about glowing runes, crystals, and practical engineering applied to fantastic products. A mana-rifle, for example, is, at its core, a 'Rechargable Wand of Mana Bolt' that's been optimized a lot; first, there was the logical idea of mounting it to a stock to make it easier to aim. then there was making the actual wand-part out of metal instead of wood or whatever so it would last longer. Then some bright cookie said 'hey, you know how we have to stick crystals onto the end of these to make rechargeable wands? Why not have a swappable crystal instead, so instead of carrying a bunch of extra wands, you just carry extra crystals?' and so on. the end result is a device that functions identically to 'Wand of Mana Bolt,' but the refinement of the basic idea is such that, in a straight contest, it'd be like pitting a Model T against a modern stock-car racer. Same basic technology, worlds of difference in performance.
and, of course, the SI is going to invest in gunpowder weapons, since they have certain advantages- like, for example that fact that it's a lot harder to deflect an eight-pound iron ball moving at several miles an hour than a great bloody bolt of magical lightning with wards.
If nothing else, since I have ruled that, as the end effects are the same as the local magic and thus affected by (most) local countermeasures against magic, the SI's current magic-heavy arsenal would be really fucked by, say, a Khornite champion with a certain bit of wargear, or a sufficiently powerful wizard just LOL NOPE-ing the magic- Max Schreiber, for example, could (assuming he was fully rested and uninjured) hold out against all three of the outer fortresses firing every lightning cannon they could at him for several hours all by his onesy, and Thanquol himself was deflecting those aimed at him handily.

*Peroxide Peroxides, Triazadienyl Fluoride, chlorine trifloride, and, of course, assorted 'Things That Suddenly Want To Turn Back Into Elemental Nitrogen.'
 
Mechanis said:
Most new constructs/weapons will be local designs, however Gremlins do have a variety of basic explosives because, much like like real-life-me, core-SI knows how to make dynamite, nitroglycerin, and a number of considerably less safe things that go boom or foosh* due to a mild interest in chemistry (and rocketry), and, well, the thing about chemistry is that a lot of it blows up or catches fire, and the more FUN stuff does so under conditions like 'exposure to oxygen' or 'because you tried to move it' or even 'you looked at it funny'.
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Mechanis said:
*Peroxide Peroxides, Triazadienyl Fluoride, chlorine trifloride, and, of course, assorted 'Things That Suddenly Want To Turn Back Into Elemental Nitrogen.'
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I see that you are another fan of "Things I Won't Work With" category from the In The Pipeline blog by Derek Lowe.

As for gunpowder weapons; even assuming that the local metallurgy is up to par to containing high pressures from smokeless-powder equivalent cartridges, you might want to use physical projectiles (or elemental-like projectiles, like lightning, maser, laser or graser, or sonic weapons) but given impulse by magic (or steam). You might be able to create magical equivalent to railgun or gauss rifle.

A few real-life steampunk-ish and/or clockwork-ish contraptions:
  • "Forgotten History: World's Biggest Black Powder Cannon - a 100-Ton Gun" video on ForgottenWeapons YouTube channel; the loading mechanism of this naval fortress canon is powered by steam, and allows it to sustain rate of fire of 1 shoot every 6 minutes (though in real life you need to worry about such things like finite lifetime of a barrel)
  • "A True Crossbow Revolution: The Steambow (Full Review)" video on Slingshot Channel on YouTube; the compressed air mechanism allow for very easy cocking of powerful crossbows, as long as the pressure in the reservoir holds (around 6 reload if I remember correctly).
  • "Beautiful 1625 Breechloading Wheellock" video on ForgottenWeapons YouTube channel; wheellocks are clockwork-like mechanisms that were used on early firearms, then replaced by less complicated (less expensive and less prone to failure) flintlocks.
 
hmm, cant they use magic to propel a bullet, kinda like a rail-gun would.
I'm sure there is some magic that could be used, that would be the equivalent to gunpowder's potential force.

Also will something like the Skylark be used as a ship or something?

Also, potential cannon?
 
you could use magic to propel a physical projectile yes. however, Gremlin magi-tech has a direct relationship between size (of the array and power source) and power. A device that could match, say, a typical 12-pound cannon in terms of through weight and speed would be considerably larger and heavier, matching the performance of even a crude black-powder pistol is effectively impossible. The primary advantage of a mana weapon (not needing to carry ammunition) would also be lost for no real gain- therefore, it is unlikely weaponized magical propulsion will be used outside of specialized roles. indeed, the SI generally goes for the far more power-efficient use of direct mana-to-(mechanical) power converters- eg, a car using a mana-driven 'engine' or the like, rather than 'magical hovertanks,' because they're trying to avoid having much in the way of 'awesome but impractical' things wherever possible.

While local metallurgy isn't up to that sort of tolerance, the SI (and, more importantly, the Gremlins) are aware of how to make near-modern steel alloys- one of the advantage of being able to summon practically arbitrary amounts of any given element, raw ore, or finished part is that one effectively only needs to get the part right once, input its pattern into the core, and then, much like a Star Trek replicator, every single instance summoned thereafter will be exactly identical. this eliminates a lot of the hurdles of even a modern tech base, manufacturing-wise, since, while one still must assemble the actual finished product 'by hand' all the parts are identical in tolerance and performance.
this is why, by-the-way, mines, parts factories, metal founderies, and other such things are so pointedly missing from the Dungeon's build list. labs and workshops have small such facilities designed for prototyping, but any sort of large-scale mass production is handled by Summoning rather than direct manufacture.

yes, basically every technological civilization on the planet is going to be incredibly jelly.

Steam-pressure cannons, however, are definitely on the table; either in the form of direct steam cannons or using a steam-powered air compressor. those, however, are more likely to be 'export' weapons- the Dwarves and humans of the setting have a pretty firm grasp on the basics (and not-so-basics) of steam power, and the sort of technical expertise to maintain and operate such weapons is already available to them, whereas any manatech weapons would require teaching people how to use the Dungeon's brand of magical bullshit- a long process and also one that may face considerable opposition, both from 'mundane' authorities due to the general reputation of magic in the setting (blasted Chaos ruining it for everybody) and from the entrenched magical organizations who might object to the sort of machine-shop magic the Gremlins use.
 
So only really useful for something like a sniper rifle, were you need distance and stopping power and not really worried about the logistics of it.

And that pic is a beam cannon now that I look closer.
 
Pneumatic rifles were a thing, with changeable pressurized containers even. Those could be recharged with steam power, or magic. And those are very quiet. This, together with camouflage and ghillie suits, good quality optics, some silent communication system, and you have snipers.

If Doomwheels are a problem, anti-tank measures could help (mines and quick-cast barriers). And maybe some tanks of their own, if an engine is possible. Air superiority, or ceiling crawlers would also be good. Summoning solves the problem of high labour intensity of making caltrops (I guess that Skaven forces would still be vulnerable to them).
 
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Skavenblight, Part Four: The Siege, part 3
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    • Tanks- and I mean real, proper tanks, not the ridiculous armored-car boondoggles the locals call tanks, are definitely on the agenda, as are various projectile weapons.

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    Keron glared out at the smoke rising from the outer forts, as distant warcries and the thunderous blasts of Lighting Cannons- both the few remaining guns the outer Forts and the Skaven's own field pieces- echoed through the cavern. An aide interrupted his brooding- "Latest report from the forts, sir."
    He turned, gesturing for the aide to continue.
    "The lake fort is being overrun,and its guns are out of action- infiltration teams, mostly, those Eshin types are surprisingly sneaky when they want to be- but the Fort Commander reports that his people are retreating in good order. The upper forts are doing much better- we've lost about half the remaining guns from them, but the crews that are left have largely adjusted to the weapons and we don't expect to lose many more of them to malfunctions."
    The aide paused, taking a quick sip of water from a nearby glass.
    "We have no real information on the actual size of the Skaven force, but given the casualties sustained thus far and our knowledge of their psychology, it must be considerable- the Maze casualties alone are estimated to be pushing a couple thousand, and the killzone right outside the tunnels is a meat-grinder even with most of the lightning-cannons out of action. That said, we are still being ground down by sheer weight of numbers- if they can maintain this intensity even for another day or so we're going to be in trouble."
    A pillar of fire engulfed the lake fort as its booby-traps were set off, scorching the cavern roof and eliciting cheers from the garrisons.
    "However, Intelligence suggests that, if we continue to inflict casualties at the current rate, combined with the boobytraps, minefields, and ambushes of the current plan, the Skaven should back off before they can take the center forts. Additionally, some mentions have been made of a counter-assault, especially from surviving elements of the Mazeguard."
    Keron paced, thinking aloud.
    "A counter-assault would be a good thing, if we can manage it, but I think the best time to do so is after the skaven begin to retreat."
    He called up his messengers.
    "New orders for all units- all forces are to begin massing at the center forts for a counter-push. Additionally, have all the spare tech knights from other positions moved there- we'll wait for them to commit to besieging the forts, then flood their lines with Knights to soften them up."
    He turned to the rest of his command staff.
    "If they decide to hit only one of the forts, I want preparations made to pincer them with the other half of our forces. Amphibious assault over the river would be the preferred option, failing that we'll drive them with one force then hammer them near the Maze exits. How are the traps coming?"
    Another aide, this one a hard-hatted Builder, spoke up.
    "Something like eighty percent saturation at this time. It'll have to be good enough, the trapping teams are retreating to the lower plateau to begin efforts there since the lake fort is destroyed. We're not using any of the more volatile substances yet, but the deadfalls, mines and other traps in the basin will undoubtedly slow the Skaven somewhat- that or inflict considerable casualties, some of the Mazeguard have downright fiendish imaginations."

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    Thanquol cheered as that blasted fort was engulfed in a roaring pillar of fire- his forces wouldn't be able to use it, sadly, the blast having been expertly designed to ensure the fort's destruction, but those infernal cannons had been silenced one-by-one. Judging by the smoke that that emitted from some of the mountings, some of them were experiencing technical failures, familiar to any right-thinking Skaven.

    "Forward, Quick-quick!" he gestured, and the army moved, flowing around the lake to besiege the other fortresses even as sporadic fire from the two on the cliffs above bit at his forces.
    Thanquol decided that his current position- a small encampment that none of the guns could reach was a perfect place to command this battle.
    His reinforcements, after all, ought to begin arriving within the next few days, bypassing blocked tunnels to bring fresh troops and, more importantly, siege weapons, to crush these last few forts.
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    Gotrek spat as he inspected the crude tunnel that intercepted their own- the only way to proceed, given the man-made mine ended in a pile of rubble- and growled a word that deflated Felix's mood nigh-instantly.
    "Skaven."

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    A/n: where goes Thanquol, often also goes Gotrek Gurnisson and Felix Jaeger. Because being Thanquol is sufferingvarious gods* have to get their amusement somehow.
    *including, but not limited to, Tzeench, the Horned Rat, and Sigmar,
     
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    • I don't know anything about these characters, but I'm liking where this fic is going. That said, I'm really looking forward to after the skaven have been dealt with, so things can slow down and your SI can get to know his minions.
     
    Radmelon said:
    I don't know anything about these characters, but I'm liking where this fic is going. That said, I'm really looking forward to after the skaven have been dealt with, so things can slow down and your SI can get to know his minions.
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    Gotrek and Felix are the main characters of one of the major WHF book series.

    Gotrek is a dwarf with a colossal ginger mohawk and, depending on your point of view, either the world's best or worst Slayer. He disgraced himself at some point before the story started (I think for doing the right thing against orders), and took the Slayer Oath as a consequence. Now, he travels the world looking for the biggest and most dangerous monsters to fight, in the hope that one of them will kill him so his honour can be restored. This is where the best/worst thing comes in, because despite fighting dragons, ogres, dragon ogres, giants, vampires, and even a Greater Daemon of Khorne, he's come out on top against all of them thanks to his magic axe and indomitable will. He is phenomenally good at killing things, and just as terrible at getting killed himself in the process.

    Felix is a human bard who made a drunken promise in a tavern one night to travel with Gotrek and chronicle his journeys and feats of arms. Being a dwarf, Gotrek held Felix to his word, despite Felix being so blackout drunk he couldn't remember a thing he'd said or done after waking up. Initially resentful, Felix grew into the role and while he's nowhere near as dangerous as his friend, he's equally good at surviving their various scrapes and encounters, and thus should never be counted out of a fight.
     
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