Dream Dragon

How does the first ability interact with Unwilling Shield and Body Armour? If you use FILO, it doesn't, and if you use FIFO, it pierces both of them. Next, both that second case and the second ability should result in Body Armour blocking our first melee attack, which means that when the Man With A Gun doesn't have minions, we're actually worse off in combat with these abilities (-10 total damage dealt)... unless we can choose not to use Breath of Eternity? We haven't had a 1vs.1 battle yet since getting higher Phantasm than our Wonder, so I don't know if "Will be used at the beginning of battle." is an option or a requirement.
If the character knows about certain abilities they will use them as best they can. This includes your rivals as well as you. If they haven't fought people before then they'll default to what they believe is best.
 
Conversation title: "Did you intentionally avoid answering questions?"
Korkator said:
Nothing you said here answers either question you quoted; the first question is about the order of ability resolution (FILO=First In Last Out, FIFO=First In First Out), and the second question is about whether or not John can choose to use Breath of Eternity or not at the beginning of combat.

Are you trying to say John needs to fight more for the players to find out how his abilities or combat rules work?
Lost Star said:
Ah my bad, I tend to answer questions briefly and quickly and I miss things. The breath weapon is not required. He'll use it default if there are more than one people, but he will judge based on enemy abilities and tactics they use.

As for order of ability activation, it's sort of whatever makes sense rather than any hard rules. In this case the chase ability people brought up would have triggered after the smoke bomb.

That answer your questions?
Korkator said:
It does; apologies for snapping at you. I mistook that post for a non-answer pretending to be a real one, and I have no patience for those.

Do I have permission to quote this to the thread? Nightmares of Wind having no effect on Smoke Bomb is an important detail. (Since if Smoke Bomb successfully triggers then the Man With A Gun has fled already and Nightmares of Wind only prevents fleeing, not undoes it after the fact... but... if NoW bothers to trigger at all, and you're basing this off of "makes sense", then doesn't that mean it still can?) Wait, hmm, even though you answered my questions, I am still confused. This is another example of why I was making the FIFO/FILO distinction; if it's like the MTG stack (FILO), where all the relevant abilities are tallied, then resolved in reverse order, Nightmares of Wind would work to counter Smoke Bomb, like so;
1. Man With A Gun reaches 0 Cohesion
2. Smoke Bomb triggers, but hasn't resolved yet.
3. John uses Nightmares of Wind, but it hasn't resolved yet.
4. No more ability effects are being added to the stack, so we start resolving.
5. Nightmares of Wind resolves, preventing escape.
6. Smoke Bomb resolves, and it's escape is prevented.
7. Stack empty, go to next turn of combat.

Whereas if it's FIFO instead, we have this;
1. Man With A Gun reaches 0 Cohesion
2. Smoke Bomb triggers, and immediately resolves, MWAG leaves combat.
3. John uses Nightmares of Wind, and it immediately resolves, accomplishing nothing since no one but John is in the fight regardless.


Likewise, here are the examples with Dragon Breath, Unwilling Shield, and Body Armour.
1. John uses Breath of Eternity (Dragon Breath edition), but it hasn't resolved.
2. Unwilling Shield triggers, but hasn't resolved.
3. Body Armour triggers, but hasn't resolved.
4. No more effects for the stack, start resolving.
5. Body Armour resolves, it doesn't get used up because it hasn't taken damage yet.
6. Unwilling Shield resolves, so the MWAG is no longer a valid target.
7. Breath of Eternity (DBe) resolves, disabling abilities for the Manikins only.
8. Manikins break, then MWAG's turn.
1. John uses Breath of Eternity (DBe), and it immediately resolves, disabling abilities and dealing 11 damage to all enemies.
2. Unwilling Shield never gets a chance to trigger or resolve, and Body Armour is fully functional next turn, since it did not trigger or resolve to block damage.
3. Manikins break, MWAG at 34 Cohesion, then MWAG's turn.

...but that's all if the order is consistent; if you're willing to use inconsistent order, you can have all sorts of different results, like Breath of Eternity (DBe) piercing Unwilling Shield but not Body Armour, or since US is a targeting effect, BoE(DBe) piercing BA but not US.
Lost Star said:
I'm going to be honest in that I'm not particularly treating it rule heavy so much as narrative heavy. I could nail down something solid, but to be frank that wouldn't quite fit the theme of the story now would it?

More seriously, I resolve conflicts by having them trigger in the way that best favors the skill in question. These aren't rulesets so much as people trying to leverage particular powers to the best of their ability. Narrative will trump solid rules. In my head I tend to go, 'Power Used > This power counters > This power counters that power. This one time use power can't be used against this power, so it doesn't trigger.'

It's not a hard and fast rule and I'm sorry about that, but playing to the letter of rules doesn't particularly fit what I'd like to write, and that's very important narrative.
Korkator said:
Then, perhaps, is there a theme I can use to predict interactions instead of a hard rule?

The issue about the abilities is they're almost all described in terms of particular effects, with only the title for any further narrative, so several of them could be interpreted in different ways— for instance, since the Dark Scales ability is based on Dragon Scales (theme of surface-only) does that mean it will no longer protect against sunlight at half Cohesion? ...at the first wound? Does it instead offer partial protection? Like effectively making sources of damage deal more than normal, or acting like a strong poison effect as sunlight leaks in?
To summarize; is the ability extremely fragile, favoring the narrative of the dawn ending sleep and dreams forgotten in the morning, or is the ability robust, favoring the narrative of otherworldly supernatural powers winning out against the mundane with effort and resources?

Your handling of abilities has been fairly consistent so far— that's why I thought you were using hard rules, unwritten, in the first place— and they wouldn't be so if it weren't possible to clarify them.



P.S: For another example, I notice you didn't update the description of Stardust Wings, implying that you didn't think it needed updating. What theme were you thinking of that would clarify its remaining unsaid properties? The image I had for it is a wing-driven gust of stardust blowing away effects based on emotions like hate, spite, depression, and uncaring, presumably using an emotion based off of wonder or willful innocence.
Lost Star said:
Dark scales won't go away at half health. It's probably best for you to ask questions if you're unsure of something. I'm admittedly bad at doing proper skill and item descriptions at times and can cause people to misinterpret things. It's a failing I'm likely not going to be able to change.

As for stardust wings, I did actually go back and adjust it slightly. It's meant to be only for you, and I've clarified that. If there are any other skills that might be causing confusion let me know.
Korkator said:
We wont know which skill descriptions will cause confusion until we test them, one way or another, but I think I've collected answers to the questions I've had so far, even if not all of them were answered directly.

Would it be alright to copy/post this conversation (into a spoiler) in the thread?
Lost Star said:
Go for it. Lord knows I'm bad with rules sometimes.
 
Forty Two
[X] 160

Sometimes the dreams the Dreamcatcher chose were just weird. This was probably one of those times. The place was a bright and well lit room with a series of cushions this time. Lots and lots of cushions everywhere. Most of them were gentle colors, with occasional bright ones in prominent places. There were lovely white drapes on the windows, and outside birds were singing and the sun was shining. It was a perfectly idealistic dream. Completely out of character from its normal presentation. The only thing that even slightly carried its normal style was the table in the center of the room. On it lay an old style radio that was playing static.

"The word for the day is complacency." The radio on the table crackled to life. "Complacency is for lesser beings. Not for you."

The dragon had a sudden sinking feeling as he watched the radio. His rivals were shifting uneasily themselves.

"We will be doing one thing special today. Instead of eight, there will now be seven." The Dreamcatcher said this almost softly. The rival who's dream form was fire slowly started to go out. "She was a lovely fire. Seeped in terror. Unfortunately she has lost her way. Devoured by the teeth of the dragon, and without further resources, she will now be extinguished."

The dragon's eyes snapped to the slowly disappearing dream form. He could feel it slowly being shredded. The other rivals glanced at him briefly as well.

"A child burned in a fire. A woman grown bitter and spiteful. Brilliant in her own way. Her dreams will be of her choosing, but she no longer will have the ability to reach into this realm anymore." The last flicker of flame stopped, and a pile of ash dropped to the cushion. The radio let out a crackle of static. "This will be your fate should you displease me. Denied the wide world of wonder you have found."

Everyone shifted nervously at that. Despite the trouble there was little doubt of the power and usefulness of this skill.

"Don't think you will be able to have your minions reverse my touch either." The radio laughed harshly. "Now, onto tribute. Give it now."

The dragon breathed out gossamer. The others followed suit. This time, the moth's tribute was greater than his by a hair.

"Be wary of complacency." The Dreamcatcher said again with another laugh. "Now, wake up."

John woke up with a curse, tumbling out of his bed and grumbling. He hadn't expected to win every single round, but the loss did gall him. More irritatingly, he figured that he could have denied the moth this victory if he had managed to get the bounty first.

After a moment the man dismissed the thought. He would have to do better next time. He showered, shaved, and got ready for his work instead. A few minutes later he was on his way to work.

There his coworker was awake for once. Harold scratched as his chin as the other man came in. His next statment was almost hesitant. "Well, um. I've been thinking about that wierd shit. If you're interested still, I can try to help occationally?"

John blinked. "You're sure?"

"Well, technically I'll be sleeping like I usually do?" Harold shrugged uneasily as he spoke. "I mean I can't sleep extra, but if it's doing something at night I guess I could swing something? Admittedly I don't know exactly what you want." He shrugged again.

John chuckled and grabbed a seat before leaning forward towards Harold. "I'll teach you what I can."

-----
AN: Daytime action is not locked permanently. You just have to do it this week.

You have 28 days until tribute.
You have 300 gossamer


Daytime Action
[] Patrol the campus. (You're a security guard for the local college. Your contract doesn't really need you to patrol, but it gets you out of the place.)
[] Nap and use Dream of Wonder (Which upgrade?)
[] Watch the Monitors (Talk with Harold)
[] Play Ball with Scott

[] Teach Harold a power or powers.

Evening Action
[X] Help Meria (Locked)

Night Action
[] Hunt for Gossamer (Specify a number from 1-7. 1 easy, 7 hardest)
[] Hunt for your rivals
[] Look for something new
[] Visit the dream city and do ____
 
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[X] Teach Harold a power or powers.
-[X] Create Dream Form first.
[X] Help Meria (Locked)
[X] Visit the dream city and do Bounty
I'm assuming that teaching Harold is a subvote-available task?
Anyway, Bounty because Harold will need Gossamer if we want him to get a dream form, and we're pretty low on our stash.
Also, Gossamer count is off.
You have 460 Gossamer. What are you offering for tribute?
You have 240 gossamer
460-160 = 300.
 
Should we check on our rival sometime, the one who got banished? She was not the best person and she killed us once, but she wasn't a murderer like a certain other guy. I would feel bad if she ends up suiciding because the world she sought refuge in is now denied to her.

Dunno, maybe it's overly sentimental, but now that we aren't rivals I don't feel much enmity towards her.
 
[X] Teach Harold a power or powers.
-[X] Start with Night Night and Lucid Dream, so he can both quickly go to sleep and quickly wake up.
-[X] Next, Sense Reality, as the basis for linking dream-work and physical-work
--[X] Mention that you can spot people with depression using this, and helping such a person is one of the best physical-world things you've done with the ability.
---[X] Although, you're hoping to stop someone who's likely a murderer soon.
-[X] Then, show him how to Ward an area against dream entities, using the surveillance room as example. His homework with that is to ward his home, just in case.
--[X] If you can also teach Hidden Ward and Sleeping Sanctuary at the same time (thus applying that effect to your workplace), do so.
-[X] If there's still time, teach him Dream of Wonder, and see if you two can make a collaborative dream to show how it's done.
--[X] Then, if he can, his night-time homework is to use Dream of Wonder to create his own special dream, which will probably be the basis for his dream form.
[X] Help Meria (Locked)
[X] Visit the dream city and do Desk Work
 
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[X] Teach Harold a power or powers.
-[X] Create Dream Form first.
[X] Help Meria (Locked)
[X] Visit the dream city and do Bounty
Slight problem with this vote; Night Night, Lucid Dreaming, and Dream of Wonder are all effectively prerequisites for Creating a Dream Form, and we probably want to use those as build-up for all the weirdness and disorientation people apparently have with the Dream Realm.

Next, there's also the issue that the farther Harold goes along this path, the more of our dream/reality merging problems he'll have, so we need to figure out how much Wonder he's willing to have, what we want him doing with his limited abilities, and how he's going to specialize based on that.

I would have preferred the vote for him be interpreted as leading him to understand us well enough to watch out for us, but if his dream form develops stealth, detection, and speed abilities, he might be able to do things we would usually need to spend actions on, or do things we can't.

He probably wont ever be able to match us in Gossamer collection, but we care about more things than just Gossamer.


Let's find out how much we can get done with one action, and if there's a difference between teaching an ability and granting an ability; it's possible that we can grant all the abilities we want at once, but teaching them can only be done once a week.
[X] Teach Harold a power or powers.
-[X] Start with Night Night and Lucid Dream, so he can both quickly go to sleep and quickly wake up.
-[X] Next, Sense Reality, as the basis for linking dream-work and physical-work
--[X] Mention that you can spot people with depression using this, and helping such a person is one of the best physical-world things you've done with the ability.
---[X] Although, you're hoping to stop someone who's likely a murderer soon.
-[X] Then, show him how to Ward an area against dream entities, using the surveillance room as example. His homework with that is to ward his home, just in case.
--[X] If you can also teach Hidden Ward and Sleeping Sanctuary at the same time (thus applying that effect to your workplace), do so.
-[X] If there's still time, teach him Dream of Wonder, and see if you two can make a collaborative dream to show how it's done.
--[X] Then, if he can, his night-time homework is to use Dream of Wonder to create his own special dream, which will probably be the basis for his dream form.
[X] Help Meria (Locked)
[X] Visit the dream city and do Bounty


As usually is the case, suggestions and corrections are appreciated.
 
Ok, serious question everyone. Is the voting too complicated? I'm guessing I'm doing something wrong there. Admittedly I'm getting a bit stalled on this quest, but I do try to keep going on them. Any comments or criticisms are welcome on it. I can and will simplify or change it if you want me to.
 
Ok, serious question everyone. Is the voting too complicated? I'm guessing I'm doing something wrong there. Admittedly I'm getting a bit stalled on this quest, but I do try to keep going on them. Any comments or criticisms are welcome on it. I can and will simplify or change it if you want me to.
This is a terrible question, but also nice. I'm assuming this question is because of the lack of voters.

There isn't really a problem. As much as there isn't an explicit limit on what we can or can't do in the vote. Making the limits extremely obvious would help, but subtract from the fun that is this quest. I like the freedom of exploring the original setting that exists. Feels less like a quest, and more like a breathing world.
 
Any comments or criticisms are welcome on it. I can and will simplify or change it if you want me to.
Simplicity might actually be what's wrong with this vote; due to my misinterpretation of some actions and pushing as a result, we're down to basically one action of our own (night), and everyone who voted so far feels there's only one choice there anyway. People might just not see much point voting this time.

That might change if you allow something like this;
[] Plan Eyes On The Man With The Gun
[] Nap and use Dream of Wonder (Which upgrade?)
-[] Before you start, apologize to Harold about how just last night you met a murderer with dream powers down in Los Angeles, and if you're going to actually catch them in the rematch you need to prepare at least one power to prevent their escape.
-[] Nightmares of Wind
[] Help Meria (Locked)
[] Graft
-[] Nightmares of Wind
-[] 20 more cohesion for 80 Gossamer.

Because then it becomes of choice between upholding commitments and hunting down a murderer, as well as the choice for the night action of if we Graft immediately or use another Dream of Wonder for Glowing Eyes (winning the fight) or Dark Scales (making sure we can follow him).

I could also modify my vote, @Marlin, to focus completely on Harold; going to his dreams at night to continue teaching (putting all the Dream of Wonder stuff there). Could also add a Plan line, like "[] Plan Focusing On Commitments".
 
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There is one choice that isn't locked, and it defaulted to the Dream City (and then bounty).

[X] Teach Harold.
[X] Help Meria (Locked)
[X] Visit the dream city and do Bounty

I am fine with teaching Harold this week. Supposedly, the murderer will lay low for a while anyway.

I would normally support Korkator's votes, as I think default options may be a little lacking, so his post about all the different ideas on what we could do in the Dreamworld was much appreciated.
 
[X] Teach Harold.
[X] Help Meria (Locked)
[X] Visit the dream city and do Bounty

You know what, I'm just going to go back to basics.
 
This is possible. Though you'd need to find a very strong source of greed.
Would taking the huge pile of gold and people we found be enough, or are they too happy and old to be useful?

The Guardian is a dream, right? If we defeated him, we could use him in our form, to somehow help us guard our hoard, or we'd take his armor?
 
Would taking the huge pile of gold and people we found be enough, or are they too happy and old to be useful?
This one is actually more a dream realm feature rather than anything else. You could probably dislodge it, but it might cause issues.

The Guardian is a dream, right? If we defeated him, we could use him in our form, to somehow help us guard our hoard, or we'd take his armor?
You'd be able to do something with him.
 
I think that one of our best bets for finding a powerful covetous dream would be to lure one out. Bait a trap with a huge pile of gossamer or a Wonderous Item.

Or we could kill three birds with one stone by hunting in Las Vegas. There's likely to be covetous dreams there, ones focused on taking wealth from others, we'd be looking for Gunslinger, and we'd be denying him his normal haunt.
 
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Forty Three
[X] Teach Harold.

John was not going to teach Harold how he had been taught. It had been effective admittedly, but not particularly pleasant by any means. Also, John rather suspected that the Dreamcatcher had invested a significant amount of gossamer to properly train him.

Instead, the man had crafted a small contained area around the office and walled it off from the rest of the dream. With this effect in place, John could basically control the entire area at his leisure and craft appropriate challenges. It was like creating a shallow pool to learn to swim in.

"The first thing you have to learn is how to move." John began, waving a shadowy hand. He barely used this form, but it was appropriate here. John had made one for Harold too. "This isn't like walking in the real world."

Harold probably would have given him a look if he had features. The man took a large deliberate step and paused. "Holy shit, you weren't kidding. That was weird."

"The limbs are different. You'll pick it up quickly." John dissolved his form and shifted to his favored dragon form. "This is what I like." He waved a wing in demonstration and snapped them down to lift off into the air. He manifested a perch and landed cat-like. "This is actually more complex than you'd think, but most of it's actually me."

"You know, somehow I'm not surprised you chose to be a dragon." Harold stated with a dry tone.

Shrugging his wings, the dragon continued his lecture. "The key is to make the form your own. If you are uncomfortable or unsettled by your form, it won't feel or work right."

Harold waved a shadow arm. "This doesn't seem to be very conductive to that."

Flicking his tail the dragon huffed with amusement. "That's the most basic and usable form. It's really just a shadow. I can make a hundred of them and remake them in an instant. Which is where the next part comes in. My apologies in advance." The dragon swooped down before Harold could process it and brought a claw down.

Harold jumped and cursed loudly. "What the fuck?!" One of his arms was now missing.

"Does it hurt?" The dragon asked quietly.

"Of course it hurts you psychotic bastard!" The shadowy man waved one arm vigorously.

"You're sleeping. This isn't real." John stated quietly. "All you're feeling is fake pain. Trust me, losing an arm would do far more."

"You tore my..." Harold paused mid sentence.

"Not feeling it now aren't you? That's the key thing to remember. This is a dream. It's lucid, but in the end you can wake up." The dragon curled his tail under his belly and sat down. "Pain is an illusion in here. Reason doesn't matter. The only thing that matters is your imagination and your ability to force your will on the world."

Slowly the shadow man nodded.

Pleased, John recreated the shadow man's arm. "Now, I want you to go ahead and move around." An obstacle course appeared around them. "Bonus points if you can alter this world." He grinned toothily.

"You mean break it?" Harold asked.

"Well, that'd be boring, but sure." The dragon chuckled quietly. "Also think of what sort of form you'd like, and I can help you make it."

"Sounds good!" Harold stated with pleasure and began to wiggle his arms.

"You're getting it, good." The dragon nodded, and then dissolved as John woke up.

Technically they were still working after all. There wasn't anything likely going to happen.

[X] Help Meria (Locked)

Becoming a full time artist was harder than it sounded. You were essentially working for yourself rather than anything else. In John's case, he was mostly providing support for Meria in various ways. In this case investing enough to get appropriate supplies and getting them to a good storage place was what his jobs were.

He'd complain about being used for grunt work, but Meria was doing all the paperwork and talking. That made the entire thing perfectly fine with John.

Apparently they were going to be doing a few commissions right off. Quick and easy money, though he'd have to follow someone else's requests. He was a bit surprised that Meria had managed to get a few already, but college was apparently good for something at least. Most of the week passed by doing that.

[X] Visit the dream city and do Bounty

Well, this time the dragon had a choice on bounties. At least for the good ones. Now that he knew about the moth taking them, he had taken the time to get there right when the new bounty posters were being put up. He had three in particular he was inclined to go for.

One was apparently a cowboy. As in a literal cow and boy. The picture had a rather boyish looking boy with a cowboy hat and what looked like a revolver. It was very photogenic at least. He was responsible for causing property damage, and interrupting scheduled monster attacks.

The second bounty was a rather large looking UFO. It apparently kidnapped people and returned them altered. There was even a picture of it... The fiend was turning them into Anime characters! The dragon restrained a snicker.

The last bounty looked a bit strange. There was apparently a call for someone to explore the tunnels beneath the city. Something lurked there. It wasn't a one man job either, the dragon would apparently get a partner if he did it.

Of course, the dragon didn't have to take any of these bounties. The smaller bounties were less lucrative, but they would be very easy. The others likely had complications based on their rewards, which were all roughly equal. Decisions, decisions.

-----

[] Cowboy
[] UFO
[] Tunnels
[] Casual bounties
 
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