Dragonspawn (My Hero Academia SI)

Guy had big plans if called himself Dragon Hero #1.
Ryutsuki literally says it few paragraphs below; Ryuichi wasn't known by that name during his prime, his daughter came up with the numbered system and he got the title retroactively.
Well, that's by far the biggest analysis post I've ever gotten. Thank you.

Swallowing's an automatic reflex, if it's not working then there's probably a medical emergency going on. So yeah, no room to complain beyond 'but I find it distressing'.
I'm... not entirely sure what you mean by this?

Because if you're saying that Ryuuzaki has no room to complain about swallowing Stain's arm, the only reason she did so was because Bloodcurdle removed her conscious control over her body.

1. So Ryuunosuke The Elder was outright plotting a coup? Now I can't help but wonder if he was in with the Meta Liberation Army.
Well, I wouldn't call it a coup d'etat per se, just twisting the government's hand into relaxing or even removing the civilian oversight on Pro-Heroes.

Ryuunosuke The Elder
Ryuunoske the younger
There's only one Ryuunosuke, Ryuuzaki's grandfather. You're probably thinking of Ryuo, his son, Ryuuzaki's uncle.

Subtle as a tank driving through a building. Nice.
Or a dragon in a china shop, if you will.

And here's the truth and problem to the issue of this tack Zaki's taking. It can be summed up in two words: All-Might. I forget which fic had this quote, and I do apologize for that, but one of the best explorations into what it means to be The Symbol of Peace I've read came from Izuku asking Yagi if he's ever had to kill anyone. His answer?

He has never killed a single person. Not even 'that man', who he suspects 'survived somehow'. But he is very well aware that is a luxury, a privilege, that he possesses. He has the strength, control, training, and battle experience to end almost any fight with any opponent. Most other heroes don't have what he has. Yagi accepts Zaki's logic: When all the non-lethal, non-harming options at a person's disposal have been exhausted, escalation is the only recourse left to them to save lives and end the threat.

But that's not how Zaki phrased it. Her logic is going to get turned on its head by one simple question. "Does All Might need to kill?" Because like it or not, that's what everybody is compared to. Everybody wants to be All Might. And Zaki's one of the closest of her generation to that title, ignoring meta-knowlege about Izuku's inheritance of One For All. Japan's the nation which for many years had the policy of 'the life of a single person outweighs the earth' because of its pacifist and anti-military views. All Might's revived that thinking, and Zaki just challenged it on national television.

Maybe it won't turn out this way, especially with the U.A. faculty paying attention to nip that in the bud and work with Zaki, but who knows?
True.

The issue is that if you told that to Ryuuzaki she would just deflect that she isn't All-Might nor is she trying to be.

3. The idea of ideals vs. warrior brotherhood is... well, forgive me for reading something into it that doesn't quite fit, but as a Horus Heresy fan I can see the contrast. Many of the Loyalist Primarchs were the ones who believed in the great ideals. And the Traitors those who only saw eternal war and bloodshed with the people next to them.
Hmm, it wasn't intentional but I can definitely see the comparison. I am a massive Warhammer nerd so maybe it was subconscious influence.

1. I wonder if that 'unknown' son of the first hero is going to turn into Zaki's Shigaraki?
I have a plan in mind for him.

2. I imagine it wasn't as big a deal back then as it was now. The bottom line was 'I am a Dragon, you're going to jail'. But that was the days before the Symbol of Peace. The days when the world was still in its Second Dark Age.
Sorry, I'm not quite sure which part this is referring to?

2.The detail of Tsuki recoiling when bringing up her mother I think is one of the key points that gets through to her. Tsuki's realizing she's given the impression she's ashamed of her grandmother. That there's something wrong associated with her. And as we'll see, that's the last thing Tsuki feels about her mother.
Yep. (though I think you mean mother, not grandmother)

That, and realizing she was using the same argument of bluntly appealing to parental authority rather than actually talking with her daughter as her father used.

(Especially as she was the first to raise her voice and then berated Ryuuzaki for doing the same in return)

Ah, I think this got cut off at the end.
Most fifteen year olds aren't one singular dragon?
Thank you, will fix.
 
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Because if you're saying that Ryuuzaki has no room to complain about swallowing Stain's arm, the only reason she did so was because Bloodcurdle removed her conscious control over her body.
I believe they are saying there is no room for anyone else to complain - she literally couldn't have done anything other than what she did then.
 
Pretty minor nitpick (loved the chapter in general): Ryuuyon sounds really weird. I think that's mostly because it's the only kun-yomi used in the sequence of names, so it breaks the pattern pretty hard; Ryuushi would be less out of place. (I would try to give a better explanation but I don't even know how to begin explaining this topic. It's kind of complicated.)

This is kind of half-assed advice for me to give, honestly; there's probably a specific counting form that would be much more appropriate to use for the whole set, but I don't know what it would be. The closest thing I can think of is the numbered-names-of-sons one. (-ichirou, -jirou, -saburou, -shirou, etcetera.)
 
Pretty minor nitpick (loved the chapter in general): Ryuuyon sounds really weird. I think that's mostly because it's the only kun-yomi used in the sequence of names, so it breaks the pattern pretty hard; Ryuushi would be less out of place. (I would try to give a better explanation but I don't even know how to begin explaining this topic. It's kind of complicated.)

This is kind of half-assed advice for me to give, honestly; there's probably a specific counting form that would be much more appropriate to use for the whole set, but I don't know what it would be. The closest thing I can think of is the numbered-names-of-sons one. (-ichirou, -jirou, -saburou, -shirou, etcetera.)

I don't know Japanese, so my thoughts are obviously half-assed, but the name-number sequence was sort of something that organically happened rather than being planned out. Ryuichi never even used Ryuichi - the tradition got applied to him posthumously. So it really started with Ryuni, and she couldn't have really known if her children would try to continue her legacy, or even if they would have the right power to do so.

It was more than a little ad hoc, so not using a proper counting form seems like something that could just happen because it's not like it was studiously planned out. Or if it was, it's not like that was necessarily properly communicated from one generation to the next.
 
I'm... not entirely sure what you mean by this?

Because if you're saying that Ryuuzaki has no room to complain about swallowing Stain's arm, the only reason she did so was because Bloodcurdle removed her conscious control over her body.
I believe they are saying there is no room for anyone else to complain - she literally couldn't have done anything other than what she did then.
Byzantine is correct. I mean there's no room for anybody to complain about the arm swallowing because swallowing has conscious and unconscious steps to it. Once Bloodcurdle hit, yes, she no longer had conscious control over her body. Ergo, I stated an automatic reflex like pushing 'food' to the back of her mouth or pulling it down the esophagus is impossible for her to stop.
There's only one Ryuunosuke, Ryuuzaki's grandfather. You're probably thinking of Ryuo, his son, Ryuuzaki's uncle.
Could've sworn they were taking names in honor of the family member the individual most admired. But no, that's me being crazy.
Sorry, I'm not quite sure which part this is referring to?
I mean Ryushichi. I was saying that when she was the Dragon Hero, this issue of 'purity' and 'family legacy' likley didn't exist out of pragmatism and the family not being shitty. But after she died, Ryuo stewed in his father Ryuunosuke's grief and rage, and the issue was created.
Yep. (though I think you mean mother, not grandmother)

That, and realizing she was using the same argument of bluntly appealing to parental authority rather than actually talking with her daughter as her father used.

(Especially as she was the first to raise her voice and then berated Ryuuzaki for doing the same in return)
Also, yes, another incident of my not thinking clearly when writing.
 
I'm not a native speaker of japanese, but, based on what I recall of my classes, "Ryuyon" is far more correct than "Ryushi" would be. It's very possible that there's some other counting term that's more appropriate, but 'shi' means both 'four' and 'death'. And, well, 'death dragon' is not a very heroic name, is it?
 
Ah, sorry, I'm not always so good catching that.

I believe they are saying there is no room for anyone else to complain - she literally couldn't have done anything other than what she did then.
Byzantine is correct. I mean there's no room for anybody to complain about the arm swallowing because swallowing has conscious and unconscious steps to it. Once Bloodcurdle hit, yes, she no longer had conscious control over her body. Ergo, I stated an automatic reflex like pushing 'food' to the back of her mouth or pulling it down the esophagus is impossible for her to stop.
Ah, that makes sense.

Pretty minor nitpick (loved the chapter in general): Ryuuyon sounds really weird. I think that's mostly because it's the only kun-yomi used in the sequence of names, so it breaks the pattern pretty hard; Ryuushi would be less out of place. (I would try to give a better explanation but I don't even know how to begin explaining this topic. It's kind of complicated.)

This is kind of half-assed advice for me to give, honestly; there's probably a specific counting form that would be much more appropriate to use for the whole set, but I don't know what it would be. The closest thing I can think of is the numbered-names-of-sons one. (-ichirou, -jirou, -saburou, -shirou, etcetera.)
I don't know Japanese, so my thoughts are obviously half-assed, but the name-number sequence was sort of something that organically happened rather than being planned out. Ryuichi never even used Ryuichi - the tradition got applied to him posthumously. So it really started with Ryuni, and she couldn't have really known if her children would try to continue her legacy, or even if they would have the right power to do so.

It was more than a little ad hoc, so not using a proper counting form seems like something that could just happen because it's not like it was studiously planned out. Or if it was, it's not like that was necessarily properly communicated from one generation to the next.
I'm not a native speaker of japanese, but, based on what I recall of my classes, "Ryuyon" is far more correct than "Ryushi" would be. It's very possible that there's some other counting term that's more appropriate, but 'shi' means both 'four' and 'death'. And, well, 'death dragon' is not a very heroic name, is it?
To be honest it's not meant to be grammatically accurate or anything, just a mashup of words.
 
That's a big oof. Hope Ryuuzaki can work her way through those feelings in a healthy manner at some point. Hopefully her and her mom being more open with each other now might help.
She's already dropped being asexual and lesbian onto the conversation and her mom pretty much instantly embraced and supported her. Being trans, I think that's the most brass tacks explanation of that part of the Isekai situation but I could be wrong, and "I'm originally a soldier from Finland from a past world where Quirks never existed" is a much smaller step comparatively. The barrier that existed between her and her mother for Ryuuzaki's entire life is broken, communication is going to be much easier.
 
I don't know Japanese, so my thoughts are obviously half-assed, but the name-number sequence was sort of something that organically happened rather than being planned out. Ryuichi never even used Ryuichi - the tradition got applied to him posthumously. So it really started with Ryuni, and she couldn't have really known if her children would try to continue her legacy, or even if they would have the right power to do so.

It was more than a little ad hoc, so not using a proper counting form seems like something that could just happen because it's not like it was studiously planned out. Or if it was, it's not like that was necessarily properly communicated from one generation to the next.
That makes sense, but Ryuuyon is still kind of the odd one out, and she (he?) was far enough into the sequence that it's weird.
I'm not a native speaker of japanese, but, based on what I recall of my classes, "Ryuyon" is far more correct than "Ryushi" would be. It's very possible that there's some other counting term that's more appropriate, but 'shi' means both 'four' and 'death'. And, well, 'death dragon' is not a very heroic name, is it?
While I don't consider myself an expert on Japanese, this is as someone doing their master's degree in linguistics who's conversational enough in the language to be able to handle themselves in Japan without having to fall back on English. While I freely admit that Japanese compound morphology and onomasty are not areas I understand well enough to be able to say with confidence what the correct forms are here, I can definitely say that it's more complicated than you seem to think it is. (Also, the "four is death" thing gets really overstated. Shi and shichi are perfectly common and acceptable forms, even if they're replaced in a lot of counting sequences; Japanese has too many homophones to worry about that sort of thing. In a language with such strict phonological rules it's pretty much unavoidable.)
To be honest it's not meant to be grammatically accurate or anything, just a mashup of words.
Ah, I see. I interpreted them as being structured as names because Ryuuichi sounds like a name, I guess. Ryuuyon still sounds pretty out of place, but most of the others make more sense in that context.
 
She's already dropped being asexual and lesbian onto the conversation and her mom pretty much instantly embraced and supported her. Being trans, I think that's the most brass tacks explanation of that part of the Isekai situation but I could be wrong, and "I'm originally a soldier from Finland from a past world where Quirks never existed" is a much smaller step comparatively. The barrier that existed between her and her mother for Ryuuzaki's entire life is broken, communication is going to be much easier.

I mean... trans is a bit much of a label to slap on someone else. Ryuuzaki isn't the same sex as her original body, but she could just as easily be agender/not care as be transgender. I know a few people who fall into the category of "as long as my memories are intact, I don't care what my body/sexual equipment looks like".

Also, I wouldn't say "I'm a reincarnated Finnish soldier who died in a training accident" is a smaller step than "I'm not interested in sex or girls". One of those things is much more common and doesn't really raise any questions compared to the other.
 
Also, I wouldn't say "I'm a reincarnated Finnish soldier who died in a training accident" is a smaller step than "I'm not interested in sex or girls". One of those things is much more common and doesn't really raise any questions compared to the other.
One is possible, and the other sounds really distressingly not possible, yeah. As an indicator of mental stability, they're certainly worlds apart.
 
I mean... trans is a bit much of a label to slap on someone else. Ryuuzaki isn't the same sex as her original body, but she could just as easily be agender/not care as be transgender. I know a few people who fall into the category of "as long as my memories are intact, I don't care what my body/sexual equipment looks like".
Hence why I said thought it was my best guess and that I could be wrong. And I do agree that not having their identity all that tied to their anatomy is a common route to take.
Also, I wouldn't say "I'm a reincarnated Finnish soldier who died in a training accident" is a smaller step than "I'm not interested in sex or girls". One of those things is much more common and doesn't really raise any questions compared to the other.
Small correction, Ryuuzaki did say she's interested in girls:
"Besides, you and your boyfriend could always adopt."

"Girlfriend." I corrected in a small voice. "It would be a girlfriend."

"Girlfriend, then." She nodded apologetically.
One is possible, and the other sounds really distressingly not possible, yeah. As an indicator of mental stability, they're certainly worlds apart.
You're both looking at it from the wrong angle. Reread what I mentioned as evidence again:
The barrier that existed between her and her mother for Ryuuzaki's entire life is broken, communication is going to be much easier.
There aren't going to be questions raised. There aren't going to be assumptions of insanity. Ryuuzaki and her mother are past that point, because the conversation from the past chapter has established there can no longer be any secrets between them, only acceptance. So there's not only going to be an open, welcoming, listening environment for when Ryuuzaki tells her story, but what happens next will be very different. Rather than having 'are you sure' doubting after Ryuuzaki's explanation, the first question will be 'what can we do to help'.
 
There aren't going to be questions raised. There aren't going to be assumptions of insanity. Ryuuzaki and her mother are past that point, because the conversation from the past chapter has established there can no longer be any secrets between them, only acceptance. So there's not only going to be an open, welcoming, listening environment for when Ryuuzaki tells her story, but what happens next will be very different. Rather than having 'are you sure' doubting after Ryuuzaki's explanation, the first question will be 'what can we do to help'.

Uh. I don't care how good the communication is with your kid/mother or how few barriers there are telling them you believe something outside the precepts of reality as it is understood without serious evidence is going to be cause for reasonable concern. If I told my father I teleported to the moon yesterday, he'd be very worried about my sanity, despite our very good relationship.

This isn't a matter of Ryuuzaki's identity or personal beliefs, it's something that I'd honestly be concerned if her mother wasn't alarmed by.
 
Uh. I don't care how good the communication is with your kid/mother or how few barriers there are telling them you believe something outside the precepts of reality as it is understood without serious evidence is going to be cause for reasonable concern. If I told my father I teleported to the moon yesterday, he'd be very worried about my sanity, despite our very good relationship.

This isn't a matter of Ryuuzaki's identity or personal beliefs, it's something that I'd honestly be concerned if her mother wasn't alarmed by.
If you're going to play the 'reality' card, then you have to admit your dad didn't go to school with a guy who can defy the laws of thermodynamics by making an iceberg the size of a football stadium with a snap of his fingers. Or a guy who can talk to the dead souls of seven or eight other heroes to use their superpowers. Or a guy who found out his best friend's corpse was stolen out of the morgue, stitched into an abomination of a living weapon, and gave one last tormented message from beyond the undeath he endures.

Pull the other leg my good Tenno, it has bells on it because of my Quirk. :V
 
There aren't going to be questions raised. There aren't going to be assumptions of insanity. Ryuuzaki and her mother are past that point, because the conversation from the past chapter has established there can no longer be any secrets between them, only acceptance. So there's not only going to be an open, welcoming, listening environment for when Ryuuzaki tells her story, but what happens next will be very different. Rather than having 'are you sure' doubting after Ryuuzaki's explanation, the first question will be 'what can we do to help'.
Maybe I'm not understanding what you're saying properly, so I apologise if I'm bothering you about something you're not asserting, but if what you mean is that, because they're communicating better now, she'll be more accepting of her having been an adult Finnish dude in her past life, I think that that's still really wrong. They're communicating better about normal human things, in a world where human sometimes means being dragon.

Reincarnation is more worms than either of them have scales. It is a barrel of worms. Religious worms. Social worms. 'Are you really my daughter' worms. Ask not the unasked for surprise party how this awkwardness soars, because it sure will.
 
Always Late, I think you are ascribing significantly more value to her coming out than either of them are. Things are not nearly so simple as "tell one secret so everything else must immediately come spewing out because secrets don't matter anymore."
 
Maybe I'm not understanding what you're saying properly, so I apologise if I'm bothering you about something you're not asserting, but if what you mean is that, because they're communicating better now, she'll be more accepting of her having been an adult Finnish dude in her past life, I think that that's still really wrong. They're communicating better about normal human things, in a world where human sometimes means being dragon.

Reincarnation is more worms than either of them have scales. It is a barrel of worms. Religious worms. Social worms. 'Are you really my daughter' worms. Ask not the unasked for surprise party how this awkwardness soars, because it sure will.
That the same kind of objection Tenno raised, but more accurately stated. So I'll give a similar but different answer: Quirks Are Magic.
To borrow a quote I made in another thread:
Training and developing a Quirk is more like working a muscle group or building up an athlete's skills and condition than a research-based analysis of how exactly Todoroki makes a glacier as big as a football stadium in less than a second by waving his hand. Nobody's looking at how Mirio can breathe or how blood continues to move through his veins when he's phased through a solid object. The world of MHA retaining a 21st century look and technology base extends to science and research. Where Quirks come from and how they work is still something the world is mystified by. All that we see of the current hero society is based on incomplete answers, vague theories, and compromises between clashing ideals. It could be Worm-verse dimensional energy shifting. It could be Naruto-like Chakra. Or could be DBZ Chi. It could be Resident Evil super-biology. Only the author knows.
All Ryuuzaki has to tag onto her wealth of inexplicable knowledge and odd development as a child is to say 'I think a Quirk did it'. And that's the first thing that's going to be on the mind of anyone who hears her story. "My god, what kind of immensely powerful Quirk can do this". I wouldn't say this is dissimilar from how the aftermath of Ryuuzaki's attack by her ex-teacher there was an immediate transition from reverting back to accommodating her new lifestyle when her Quirk's inability to shift was discovered. The focus isn't on 'how did someone get Isekaied to our world', it's 'what needs does this Isekai person have that aren't being met?'

Also, after nine months and almost eighteen years of raising them I would think most moms who aren't heartless wretches would say "yes this is my child, how dare you insinuate otherwise". At least that's what my experience in childcare tells me. You know you, I don't.
Always Late, I think you are ascribing significantly more value to her coming out than either of them are. Things are not nearly so simple as "tell one secret so everything else must immediately come spewing out because secrets don't matter anymore."
Except there wasn't just "one secret". This was a whole barrel of trauma each being unloaded by Ryuuzaki and her mother.
 
But that's my point, Always Late - a Quirk or whatever that allowed reincarnation with intact memories is as outside the field of reality and as demanding of evidence as me claiming I've spontaneously developed the ability to teleport.

Quirks in MHA alter how their owner interacts/can interact with the physical world. There is no record of a Quirk - and that's exactly what 'Zaki's story would be ascribed to, right or wrong, that allowed a person to just plop their mind into new hardware several centuries after their unexpected death. Granted, there wouldn't be, but the scientific standby of "Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence" applies here. Sure, the lack of barriers makes opening up about that part of her past more likely to go well than if they were present, but that's no guarantee that it will go easily, smoothly, or even be believed if 'Zaki decided to tell her mother.

Her mother wouldn't even have to think she was lying. It could be a bizzare form of schizophrenia that caused her to genuinely believe in this set of Finnish memories as her past and have no other effect on her perception of reality, for example.
 
But that's my point, Always Late - a Quirk or whatever that allowed reincarnation with intact memories is as outside the field of reality and as demanding of evidence as me claiming I've spontaneously developed the ability to teleport.

Quirks in MHA alter how their owner interacts/can interact with the physical world. There is no record of a Quirk - and that's exactly what 'Zaki's story would be ascribed to, right or wrong, that allowed a person to just plop their mind into new hardware several centuries after their unexpected death. Granted, there wouldn't be, but the scientific standby of "Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence" applies here. Sure, the lack of barriers makes opening up about that part of her past more likely to go well than if they were present, but that's no guarantee that it will go easily, smoothly, or even be believed if 'Zaki decided to tell her mother.

Her mother wouldn't even have to think she was lying. It could be a bizzare form of schizophrenia that caused her to genuinely believe in this set of Finnish memories as her past and have no other effect on her perception of reality, for example.
Honestly, you're doing a better job of defeating your own point than I am. The lack of a scientific way to study the phenomenon, the ease of acceptance of fantastical situations, and especially the willingness to investigate whatever details Ryuuzaki shares were all points I was prepared to bring up next round.

However, proceeding to insist that these're all true, yet you're still right because your own vaguely defined 'scientific proof' is somehow the standard for the world of My Hero Academia is where I feel we must draw the matter to a close. This is a clear sign the topic has come to the red line. We've had a productive discussion up to this point, and for that I am very thankful, but I'd rather let the matter rest when one party starts saying a line in the sand shall not be crossed rather than risk things get personal. Have a nice evening, and I hope you enjoy your July 4th.
 
*Eyeroll* I never demanded "scientific proof" my point is reincarnation is every bit as outside the norm for MHA as turning into a dragon is outside ours, and therefore it is an extraordinary claim, which in order to be believed requires extraordinary evidence to be believed, evidence you, to my view, bizzarely believe is easy to produce.

I also took issue with you equating coming out, which is a very ordinary claim which requires only ordinary evidence, with the previously mentioned extraordinary claim.

But you're right, clearly this is all me defeating my own argument and you are, as always, right.

If you think the discussion is no longer productive (which I agree with), say so without proclaiming victory.
 
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