Dragon Ball, DBZ and DBGT Ideas, Discussion, and Recommendation Thread

Nope. He was born in Age 737 (736 in the Manga), and Dragon Ball starts in Age 749. So he is at least twelve. I went with twelve because that's what I wrote my outline based on.
Weird, I was sure he was ten at the start... Oh wait was that because he didn't know how to count yet.

I hope more of the latter than the former.
Slightly more the latter XD

He was trying to be dramatic and failing. If it felt edgy, then my job as a dialogue writer is succeeding :p
Thanks!
That does help a bit, I look forward to seeing someone call him on it XD

NP :)

Nuance is something I feel is lacking in pretty almost all fics like this. Something I hope to solve :D
Thanks! Now I just need to work up the courage to write more parts...
Good luck on both fronts!
 
So, I spent a good time the last few days binge watching a lot of MasokoX's Dragonball What If series, and it gave me an idea.

What if Dr. Gero created his own corporation like Capsule Corp post Dragonball?Or simply: What if Dr. Gero turned good?

Let's say that Gero makes a breakthrough earlier on in canon. He's testing his spy-bots, and through them, manages to find out what Commander Red wanted the Dragonballs for, and much like Staff Officer Black, has a similar reaction.

Going with the idea that his son was a Red Ribbon soldier, and died fighting for the army that he believed would make the world a better place, Gero's loyalty for the organization completely withers away when he discovers what a whole pathetic waste it all was for.

His son died not for a new world order...but for a man who wanted to be...taller.

Completely disgusted and depressed, I can see Gero deserting the army before its fall as the short lived Black Ribbon Army, fixating his hatred this time on the Commander rather than Goku. He starts on the schematics for a new Android, one much more advanced than Eight. Something that could strike back at the Army that wasted his son's life for something so stupid.However, long before he can even produce a prototype, he learns of the Commander's death and the end of the Army at Son Goku's hands.

Gero is lost. His target for revenge is dead and gone.

What does he do now?

So, Gero stews for a time, uncertain at what he should do with his life. He thinks about the idea of making Androids to conquer the world himself, but quickly dismisses it. The Red Ribbon Army was a sham, and their supposed goal of world domination is now tainted by Red's idiocy in Gero's mind. He'd be looked on as the Red Ribbon's successor or some loyalist to the faction, and that would be a disgrace to his son's death even more in his mind.

For years, Gero has no idea what to do.

He tinkers in his lab with this idea and that, but there's just no drive for him anymore. No real pushing force for him to invent or create due to his uncertainty and doubt. One day, meandering about the nearest city to his lab hunting for supplies or food, he comes across an advertisement for a new Capsule Corp product.

That's when the obvious hits him. He doesn't have to conquer the world militarily like that idiot Commander Red. He could easily just build a corporation that could dominate the world through the wonders of capitalism! And it would be legal too!

Essentially, you'd end up with a Gero who's more like a cranky Dr. Light, who not only has Gero-Tech as a major world corporation that is racing past Capsule Corp in the fields of robotics, bio-engineering, and other trans-humanist based technology, but also has created Androids that help protect the Earth.

At first, it would have been something like 16, based off his son to help him stem off loneliness, but it would advance from there as he made more Androids here and there and formed a sort of family with them as time passes, the Androids sort of mellowing out the Doctor into the sort of person that would want to use his intelligence to protect the Earth from future threats after he gets a wake-up call from the Saiyan invasion.

While it's unlikely that this version of Gero would kidnap and modify 17 and 18, if you wanted them in the plot, I'm sure you could work them into it somehow. I think it's canon that Gero kidnapped them at a young age. Considering that the two never bring up their past human lives, it could be either they don't remember, or that they're simply orphans who Gero snatched because no one would miss them. If it's the latter, a more mellow Gero might...might have adopted them, and modified them with their permission based on fears of them dying just like his son did in the future.

Whether or not Cell is in the plot depends upon Gero's thought processes about creating him. The Cell that causes all the problems is still from the future, and not the what-if version, so you'd still have a Cell Saga.

However, if Gero could create a good Cell, that would definitely be interesting, but unfortunately wouldn't change anything until way after Super itself given the gestation period. Given the normal What-if structure of having Future Trunk's time machine sending him into these alt-universes rather than the canon present, you'd have an interesting bit of conflict between him and the hero androids. You'd still have Cell from the canon timeline invading this planet, so, even more confusion there.

Thoughts?
 
Are there any fics focusing on the character Lunch? She was a fun presence in the original DB, but then just got shelved for no reason starting from Z.
 
It is a very intriguing AU, I really like how you justified Gero's desire for revenge shifting and then breaking entirely due to finding out what his son died for and then losing his target and afterwards just being too bitter and exhausted to try for much. (Surprised he never went for the DBs)

I am unsure he could make androids capable of defending the earth particularly soon given the resources he had in canon and how long that took, but ones that could act in support and eventually grow into that certainly.

Clever idea with the alt Cell as well.

I think the AU has potential but I too am unsure what direction to take it, sorry. I did like the 16 style robot though, could lead to many feels.
 
It is a very intriguing AU, I really like how you justified Gero's desire for revenge shifting and then breaking entirely due to finding out what his son died for and then losing his target and afterwards just being too bitter and exhausted to try for much. (Surprised he never went for the DBs)

I am unsure he could make androids capable of defending the earth particularly soon given the resources he had in canon and how long that took, but ones that could act in support and eventually grow into that certainly.

Clever idea with the alt Cell as well.

I think the AU has potential but I too am unsure what direction to take it, sorry. I did like the 16 style robot though, could lead to many feels.

Before I go writing it, I would want to get a good bit into my current fic (which writer's block is messing with...yay) but I would need to re-watch the Android arc and some of Dragonball before I did so. I'm kind of got the TFS versions stuck in my head too much that if I wrote it now, it likely would come off too close to the abridged version.

Well, going after the Dragonballs sounds like something even canon Dr. Gero should have done. Coming up for a reason why he didn't pursue them is going to be difficult. There used to be a theory that the Dragonballs have a time limit on who they could resurrect, but that was axed I think in Resurrection of F, and since he has spy drones, he should know the DBs can bring back dead people. I guess his canon self was blinded by revenge, and the fact he never had a dragonball radar meant it wasn't really feasible since he was trying to stay low. I mean, if 19 and 20 did "win" against Goku, they could have had plan 2 be go after the Dragonballs with a stolen radar.

In this plot, I guess he would be trying to distance himself away from Red Ribbon and if that connection was pointed out, Goku and friends wouldn't trust him with the radar at all until he proved himself not to be a villain, or something like that.

I'm wondering if he could offer to make the human Z-fighters into androids/cyborgs. One of the supplementary pieces does mention that for the most part 18 and 17 are purely bio-mechanical in function unlike 20 and 19. If he could apply what he did in canon to them at least in part to Krillin, Yamcha, or Tien, that would actually make them relevant for a lot longer in the plot, if they agreed that is. I can see Yamcha agreeing after he got yamcha'ed, but the rest might be a bit put off by the idea. Tien probably wouldn't agree until after his best moment in Z with Cell.
 
Last edited:
Before I go writing it, I would want to get a good bit into my current fic (which writer's block is messing with...yay) but I would need to re-watch the Android arc and some of Dragonball before I did so. I'm kind of got the TFS versions stuck in my head too much that if I wrote it now, it likely would come off too close to the abridged version.

Well, going after the Dragonballs sounds like something even canon Dr. Gero should have done. Coming up for a reason why he didn't pursue them is going to be difficult. There used to be a theory that the Dragonballs have a time limit on who they could resurrect, but that was axed I think in Resurrection of F, and since he has spy drones, he should know the DBs can bring back dead people. I guess his canon self was blinded by revenge, and the fact he never had a dragonball radar meant it wasn't really feasible since he was trying to stay low. I mean, if 19 and 20 did "win" against Goku, they could have had plan 2 be go after the Dragonballs with a stolen radar.
I think the time limit thing was instituted by Dende so that could help, plus yeah while Gero is good Bulma is equally good and better in some areas so him not being able to design as good of a radar as her makes sense.

In this plot, I guess he would be trying to distance himself away from Red Ribbon and if that connection was pointed out, Goku and friends wouldn't trust him with the radar at all until he proved himself not to be a villain, or something like that.

I'm wondering if he could offer to make to the human Z-fighters into androids/cyborgs. One of the supplementary pieces does mention that for the most part 18 and 17 are purely bio-mechanical in function unlike 20 and 19. If he could apply what he did in canon to them at least in part to Krillin, Yamcha, or Tien, that would actually make them relevant for a lot longer in the plot, if they agreed that is. I can see Yamcha agreeing after he got yamcha'ed, but the rest might be a bit put off by the idea. Tien probably wouldn't agree until after his best moment in Z with Cell.
Personal preference but I generally don't go for making them cyborgs to help them keep up over techniques and training, but that's just me XD And I agree that Tenshinhan and Krillen would likely not jump at the chance. Honestly I am unsure Yamcha would either barring massive external pressure but if written well it could be believable and them keeping up is a nice thought.

Also wow, imperfect Cell would be salty as all get out coming to this timeline XD
 
Last edited:
I think the time limit thing was instituted by Denda so that could help, plus yeah while Gero is good Bulma is equally good and better in some areas so him not being able to design as good of a radar as her makes sense.
You mean rescinded. That was honestly always my theory, that Dende did away with the time limit on resurrection when he recreated the Dragon Balls.
 
You mean rescinded. That was honestly always my theory, that Dende did away with the time limit on resurrection when he recreated the Dragon Balls.
Oops, yes, haha, :oops: And yeah, same, not sure if its canon but I think it is. Or like, maybe the issue was that if the body wasn't preserved Shenron couldn't do much but that got changed?
 
Wasn't the whole "His body disappeared because Kami" thing meant to justify that? That is to say, he got to literally keep his body in the after life and thus his body didn't need to be rebuilt or healed ETC?
Considering that Piccolo blew his guts out but he was just fine afterwards? I think he got a new body.
 
I've had an idea for a sorta-kinda "dynasty" quest, but not really. The idea came from various "What-If?" ideas, including the Saiyan race as presented by Universe 6 in Super. Also from looking at the society of the Saiyans of canon, and finally coalescing into something after seeing an interview with Nagamine Tatsuya, director of the new Broly movie where he talks about the pride of the Saiyan race.



I disagree with his assertion that the Saiyans were a particularly noble race at any point in time; the talk about how their pride was "beautiful, or at least invigorating" rings pretty hollow when one of his examples of a "proper" proud Saiyan is Bardock, a brutal mercenary who slaughtered entire planets with no remorse and was only differentiated from his fellows in his drive to improve. And the other is Broly, who becomes a mindless bruiser the moment he's seriously challenged in a fight.

I think he's right, though, when he says that serving Freeza stripped the Saiyans of their pride and made them something other than a true "warrior race." After all, Freeza was running a business of wiping out and then selling planets to the highest bidder; he needed soldiers and enforcers, not proud warriors. The Saiyans under Freeza didn't seek out strong opponents and grow through adversity; they were a race of thugs and leg-breakers, or at best attack dogs sicced on whoever their masters pointed at for table scraps.

But even discounting that, nothing about the Saiyans of Universe 7 implies that they were ever a particularly noble or pleasant civilization as a whole, though they definitely had exceptions before the likes of Gine; the very existence of the original Super Saiyan God, a man of pure heart who teamed up with at least five companions to challenge the cruelty of his people, proves that there were always Saiyans who went against their race's normal mold.

So I thought a quest like this would be a good way to examine that and see where it could lead.

Essentially, it'd be an AU quest centering around the history and destiny of the Saiyans, tracked through time and influenced by the voters who take on the identity of unusual individuals in key time periods who have the potential to change the future of the Saiyans as a people and a civilization. Once you live out that Saiyan's life (or just get to the point where their path going forward is more or less settled), time will progress forward at least a few generations along the path that has been set until the next "decision point" is reached and you assume control of another Saiyan with the potential to play an important role.

In other words, the voters have the ability to shape the path the Saiyans take going forward. But this isn't absolute; the more the voters try to push the Saiyans in a direction that runs counter to their nature and current culture, the harder enforcing that change will be. Trying to turn them into a race of peaceful scholars and scientists from the get-go is just asking for it all to be overturned by the time you reach your next decision point, perhaps leaving the Saiyans even worse-off than they started. Taking advantage of the inclinations of Saiyans and guiding them toward more constructive paths. As time goes on, larger shifts may become possible, as earlier changes build on top of each other and change. Of course, they might also regress; the path of history is not a straight line, after all, and the intervention of single figures can only do so much.

The Saiyans being subjugated or even wiped out by Freeza is not an automatic fail-state, BTW, as it will be assumed in all cases that there's at least one survivor who will live on and pass along the bloodline of the Saiyans, even if it lives on only through hybrids. Saiyan blood is a resilient thing, after all, and perhaps you'll reach some far-off future where the "Saiyans" are actually atavistic humans whose lineage expresses the old instincts and quirks (like tails) of their distant ancestors.

Or not. It really all depends on how long the quest goes without collapsing in on itself or just dying.

As a nod to the recent video game, one of the protagonists at a certain point would probably be Shallot:
 
Last edited:
Remember the Shaolin Temple knockoff that Krillin came from (the Orin Temple)? I was rewatching TFS's Let's Play of Attack of the Saiyans and the part where Krillin goes back there after the King Piccolo arc and avenges their defeat even though he really has no reason to given how he was treated. And it got me thinking.

Being a huge wuxia fan, I feel like it's kind of a waste to introduce a Shaolin stand-in and then not really use it for much after Krillin one-shots one of his bullies in the preliminaries of a tournament. I always liked the idea that it would end up being Krillin who passed on the teachings of the Turtle School, but now I'm also kind of imagining an AU where the events of that game happens, with Krillin returning to the place that was his home for years and deciding that he's going to whip this place into shape, both morally and in terms of actual martial arts skill.

Like, imagine Krillin rediscovers or recreates lost arts of the Orin Temple (perhaps lost due to King Piccolo's reign of terror back when Roshi was young?), combines the Orin martial arts with the stuff he learned at the Turtle School, and ends up founding his own lineage of hybrid martial arts that he passes on to the temple and takes back with him when he decides to start his own New Turtle School.

Which also feeds into this larger AU idea I've had where stuff like this - with characters actually teaching and passing on their knowledge and training people - leads to the setting developing into this sort of high-flying sci-fi wuxia where, maybe by the Saiyan Saga, ki powers are common knowledge and you've got multiple organizations, schools, and factions teaching different styles and techniques with unique specialties and their own alliances and rivalries. You know, Tien and Chaotzu have their New Crane School, Yamcha could have his own school (probably a much more modern one) and actually end up being the one with the most students because he's this good-looking baseball star, etc.

Also, you could introduce Paopao as a major character, God knows this series needs some female fighters who don't just turn into housewives as soon as they hook up with a guy. Girl was able to keep up with 16 year old Krillin without being attached to any super-important names from canon and she's a fighter who specializes in using a sword (which she fires ki blasts out of)! We don't get enough weapon users in this series.
 
Also, you could introduce Paopao as a major character, God knows this series needs some female fighters who don't just turn into housewives as soon as they hook up with a guy. Girl was able to keep up with 16 year old Krillin without being attached to any super-important names from canon and she's a fighter who specializes in using a sword (which she fires ki blasts out of)! We don't get enough weapon users in this series.
I always stan for Paopao, she had so much potential and can be well utilized in stories form multiple different angles!
The tricky thing with weapons I think is either they cut or they don't cut and if they don't they may look ineffective. Not saying its insurmountable but I can see why it is tricky to use them.

Anyway I find this idea to be very fun, I'm always for expanding the humans role and cast and with them teaching I imagine they'll also be more actively meditating, training, trying to expand their horizons meaning they may well end up stronger by the time Radits arrives than they were in canon.

Yancha starting his own school and it being the most popular cos he's famous and fairly modern is a neat idea, while Krillin's would be more like a town with some guests and Tenshinhan and Chaosu's would probably be more akin to a boot camp/spiritual cleansing journey. Though if Krillin is taking over the Orin temple... Maybe Yamcha gets to use the turtle school name, or creates his own wolf school.

One of the great things about this set up is most of the cast have already refined their training methods and ki control to a level where they can likely train students more efficiently than their own masters did, though the real ideal would be post Kami training for super fast progress given their own growth from that training.

With existing students and fighters in mind...

Upa would probably train with his dad then try to climb the tower, but maybe knowing his father couldn't he seeks to expand his horizons a bit first and spends time at more than one dojo?

Krillin's school:
Paopao (Top student)
Nam (Most likely)
Chao (Motivated by wanting to protect her village?)
Monks

Yamcha's school:
Possibly Satan? (I'm not nearly as invested in him as others but thy likely operate in the same sphere.)
Great Lee (Probably)
Pamput maybe?
Maybe that wolf guy he fought in the 21s tournament?
dragonball.fandom.com

Hijiki

Hijiki (ひじき, Hijiki) is the vice-captain of the East City Police special forces unit. Hijiki is a fairly tall, slender woman with narrow bean-shaped eyes, thin eyebrows, and lipstick. Like the other members of the East City Police, instead of wearing a conventional police uniform, Hijiki wears...

Tenshinhan & Chaosu:
Launch maybe?
Could have that fighter from the filler he injured?
There's also the giant and above average strength member of the kings guard.
dragonball.fandom.com

Sky Dragon

Sky Dragon (豹ひょう牙が天てん龍ろん, Hyōga Tenron) is a Martial Arts teacher, and the leader of the Panther-Fang School along with his brother Rising Dragon. Sky Dragon is a very competitive fighter, training himself to not lose to any opposition. Sky Dragon also deals with his opponents in tactical...
Doskoi maybe?

Added options:
Colonel Violet & Hasky could both be people who want power and so might seek out training.
 
I always stan for Paopao, she had so much potential and can be well utilized in stories form multiple different angles!
The tricky thing with weapons I think is either they cut or they don't cut and if they don't they may look ineffective. Not saying its insurmountable but I can see why it is tricky to use them.

Anyway I find this idea to be very fun, I'm always for expanding the humans role and cast and with them teaching I imagine they'll also be more actively meditating, training, trying to expand their horizons meaning they may well end up stronger by the time Radits arrives than they were in canon.

Yancha starting his own school and it being the most popular cos he's famous and fairly modern is a neat idea, while Krillin's would be more like a town with some guests and Tenshinhan and Chaosu's would probably be more akin to a boot camp/spiritual cleansing journey. Though if Krillin is taking over the Orin temple... Maybe Yamcha gets to use the turtle school name, or creates his own wolf school.

One of the great things about this set up is most of the cast have already refined their training methods and ki control to a level where they can likely train students more efficiently than their own masters did, though the real ideal would be post Kami training for super fast progress given their own growth from that training.

With existing students and fighters in mind...

Upa would probably train with his dad then try to climb the tower, but maybe knowing his father couldn't he seeks to expand his horizons a bit first and spends time at more than one dojo?

Krillin's school:
Paopao (Top student)
Nam (Most likely)
Chao (Motivated by wanting to protect her village?)
Monks

Yamcha's school:
Possibly Satan? (I'm not nearly as invested in him as others but thy likely operate in the same sphere.)
Great Lee (Probably)
Pamput maybe?
Maybe that wolf guy he fought in the 21s tournament?
dragonball.fandom.com

Hijiki

Hijiki (ひじき, Hijiki) is the vice-captain of the East City Police special forces unit. Hijiki is a fairly tall, slender woman with narrow bean-shaped eyes, thin eyebrows, and lipstick. Like the other members of the East City Police, instead of wearing a conventional police uniform, Hijiki wears...

Tenshinhan & Chaosu:
Launch maybe?
Could have that fighter from the filler he injured?
There's also the giant and above average strength member of the kings guard.
dragonball.fandom.com

Sky Dragon

Sky Dragon (豹ひょう牙が天てん龍ろん, Hyōga Tenron) is a Martial Arts teacher, and the leader of the Panther-Fang School along with his brother Rising Dragon. Sky Dragon is a very competitive fighter, training himself to not lose to any opposition. Sky Dragon also deals with his opponents in tactical...
Doskoi maybe?

Added options:
Colonel Violet & Hasky could both be people who want power and so might seek out training.

There's one joking Youtube comment that the older sister Paopao talks about taking all their dad's attention because she's prettier, a better fighter, and doesn't have an accent is actually Chi-Chi. Which... would actually work really well, it's not like this series hasn't pulled heretofore-unmentioned siblings of major characters out of nowhere before (looking at you, Tights). And what little we see of the Ox King's late wife in a portrait gives the impression that Chi-Chi's a dead ringer for her, so even though Ox King seems like a pretty loving father overall there's a definite reason why he might have a "favorite" even if he doesn't admit it.

As for increased Earthling relevance, I'm always all for it, though honestly I kind of find the usual direction people want to go with that - you know, Androids and such - kind of not really as interesting to me personally as just, "Everyone knows ki is a thing and people are training." Because I'm a massive sucker for martial arts and wuxia shenanigans, and I'd much rather have way more of that in my Dragon Ball than just typical sci-fi uplift stuff of "We have a problem, what do we do? Science!"

Yeah, Yamcha would have his school in West City where it'd be this big, modernized facility (and having to spend his time on that might contribute to his and Bulma's break-up), so it'd be a lot more convenient to learn there. Plus, I've always liked the idea that Yamcha's fighting style is the most "normal," that is the one with the most emphasis on physical strikes instead of beams (the Wolf Fang Fist is a way more iconic move for Yamcha than his Spirit Ball, for instance), which along with his more modern curriculum where you might, for example, have a Beginner Course, could lead to Yamcha becoming kind of the gateway teacher that a lot of people start out with before moving on to another school somewhere.

I'm not sure I'd want Krillin to actually go back to Orin Temple as a member, if only because I'd want him to still get with Android 18, and Buddhist monks are usually celibate. Then again, there are Japanese Buddhist sects where you can marry and have kids. And "Abbot Krillin" would be pretty cool (though he might have to retire to start a family even if the temple does allow monks to marry). His style would probably become known as the "Turtle Form/Style" of the Orin martial arts.

I feel like Tenshinhan would definitely be the most strict and demanding teacher, and probably the one who emphasizes self-control and self-mastery above everything else to make up for his own past sins.

I also feel like the filler schools, the Chin-Star School and the Panther-Fang School, could be schools that gain prominence on their own, given Chin Taiken (when not sick) was apparently stronger than Sky Dragon, who himself actually kind of put up a better fight against post-Korrin Goku than Mercenary Tao did. Maybe as the demand for martial arts training grows, people "discover" those and other schools and start cross-training? Plus it'd be nice to have major schools that aren't directly run by a main character.

I also think Goku would be the most like Master Roshi as a teacher, only ever taking maybe one or two disciples who catch his eye at a time instead of having an actual school, and mostly training them in the fundamentals and letting them discover their own path to martial arts from there.

Heck maybe Upa's his first student? You could even have Upa become a kind of big brother/uncle figure to Gohan, since he's only like 16 as of the Saiyan Saga.
 
There's one joking Youtube comment that the older sister Paopao talks about taking all their dad's attention because she's prettier, a better fighter, and doesn't have an accent is actually Chi-Chi. Which... would actually work really well, it's not like this series hasn't pulled heretofore-unmentioned siblings of major characters out of nowhere before (looking at you, Tights). And what little we see of the Ox King's late wife in a portrait gives the impression that Chi-Chi's a dead ringer for her, so even though Ox King seems like a pretty loving father overall there's a definite reason why he might have a "favorite" even if he doesn't admit it.
That is an interesting idea to be sure and oculd lead to some neat drama and tie several character and development threads closer together, so it certainly has potential. Though I also feel with the accent thing, Paopao's strength and the fact she seems younger than Chichi it might be hard to swing than Tights which was already (Sides eyes Super) words. Though good insights on Chichi's mother, aaah, remind me to tell you about that 'Annin is Chichi's mom' story I outlined awhile back sometime XD

As for increased Earthling relevance, I'm always all for it, though honestly I kind of find the usual direction people want to go with that - you know, Androids and such - kind of not really as interesting to me personally as just, "Everyone knows ki is a thing and people are training." Because I'm a massive sucker for martial arts and wuxia shenanigans, and I'd much rather have way more of that in my Dragon Ball than just typical sci-fi uplift stuff of "We have a problem, what do we do? Science!"
Same and honestly it is so nice to encounter someone else who doesn't like the Cyborg/android power up. I mean ignoring that the process doesn't seem pleasant or quick, it feels like cheating to be honest; like if they're willing to get robo upgrades for power why not just summon the dragon and demands a more consistent zenkai and Super Human Form?

Like it can work, but I feel either as a 'Bulma needs to get involved so she makes a robot/power armor' thing, or as a 'Gero kidnapped X' and dealing with what happened to them is a major part of the story.

Plus, while the series didn't use the characters well, I feel like the world building is lose enough that one can create ways for them to keep up post SSJ if one wants to, I have over a dozen of things along such lines.
Yeah, Yamcha would have his school in West City where it'd be this big, modernized facility (and having to spend his time on that might contribute to his and Bulma's break-up), so it'd be a lot more convenient to learn there. Plus, I've always liked the idea that Yamcha's fighting style is the most "normal," that is the one with the most emphasis on physical strikes instead of beams (the Wolf Fang Fist is a way more iconic move for Yamcha than his Spirit Ball, for instance), which along with his more modern curriculum where you might, for example, have a Beginner Course, could lead to Yamcha becoming kind of the gateway teacher that a lot of people start out with before moving on to another school somewhere.
I'll freely admit, I often like keeping Yamcha and Bulma together, but your story your call and this break up would at least be more natural and less unpleasant than the one canon threw onto the relationship.

Great insights on his style as well, yeah it does come off as more grounded than the other characters and so easier to get into, which makes sense given he taught himself a lot of the basics and figured out a Ki empowerment technique alone. I do love the Sokidan but yeah Wolf Fang Fist is awesome. I love the beginner course idea, it works well to give a strong basis of people with basic Ki skills and knowledge while those seeking more advanced abilities could be fielded out to Krillin and Tenshinhan with only maybe one or so becoming Yamcha's direct pupil. Also Yamcha could go around stopping criminals which could be fun and ironic XD

Also thinking on it, Yamcha doesn't even need to be a baseball star, he could just roll around to local tournaments, win easily and announce plans to build a school, get some sponsors and with that and the prize money open it up, already having a lot of publicity.

I'm not sure I'd want Krillin to actually go back to Orin Temple as a member, if only because I'd want him to still get with Android 18, and Buddhist monks are usually celibate. Then again, there are Japanese Buddhist sects where you can marry and have kids. And "Abbot Krillin" would be pretty cool (though he might have to retire to start a family even if the temple does allow monks to marry). His style would probably become known as the "Turtle Form/Style" of the Orin martial arts.
Hilariously I am less fussed on Krillin & 18, though that may just be because I find crowbarring in their relationship into every story awkward in a lot of cases, though it'd still happen fairly naturally here I suppose. And yeah he could be of that school of thought which allows marriage and maybe retire and leave the temple to Paopao when it comes time to start a family? Whatever the case that all seems quite workable.

I feel like Tenshinhan would definitely be the most strict and demanding teacher, and probably the one who emphasizes self-control and self-mastery above everything else to make up for his own past sins.

I also feel like the filler schools, the Chin-Star School and the Panther-Fang School, could be schools that gain prominence on their own, given Chin Taiken (when not sick) was apparently stronger than Sky Dragon, who himself actually kind of put up a better fight against post-Korrin Goku than Mercenary Tao did. Maybe as the demand for martial arts training grows, people "discover" those and other schools and start cross-training? Plus it'd be nice to have major schools that aren't directly run by a main character.
Definitely agree on that, it would works well and fit with his character.

Oooh that is genius, I love that idea and oh snap yeah I had never considered that but yeah, haha, Tao's lucky he was never sent there XD

I also think Goku would be the most like Master Roshi as a teacher, only ever taking maybe one or two disciples who catch his eye at a time instead of having an actual school, and mostly training them in the fundamentals and letting them discover their own path to martial arts from there.

Heck maybe Upa's his first student? You could even have Upa become a kind of big brother/uncle figure to Gohan, since he's only like 16 as of the Saiyan Saga.
I hadn't even considered Goku haha, but yeah that would make sense, especially given his own training. Also the Upa idea is fantastic, that could be super fun and wholesome and lead to some great developments!
 
Same and honestly it is so nice to encounter someone else who doesn't like the Cyborg/android power up. I mean ignoring that the process doesn't seem pleasant or quick, it feels like cheating to be honest; like if they're willing to get robo upgrades for power why not just summon the dragon and demands a more consistent zenkai and Super Human Form?

Like it can work, but I feel either as a 'Bulma needs to get involved so she makes a robot/power armor' thing, or as a 'Gero kidnapped X' and dealing with what happened to them is a major part of the story.

Plus, while the series didn't use the characters well, I feel like the world building is lose enough that one can create ways for them to keep up post SSJ if one wants to, I have over a dozen of things along such lines.

I know, right? Like, I don't mind a sci-fi uplift every now and then, but I feel like actually creating an interesting world with fun stories to tell often takes a backseat to just being as efficient as possible with power-ups and building up the most dakka. Which is just not the kind of world-building I think is fun. I'd much rather think about stuff like what the different styles the Z Fighters teach would be like. So I will.

Dragon Ball Online actually had some good starting points for that. Krillin created the curriculum for the New Turtle School based on his own experiences of constantly having to fight people way stronger than him, often in a group, so the style he created is based on using teamwork and/or cunning to whittle down a superior opponent until you can land a finishing blow, while Tien's New Crane School, based on stuff like his managing to stymie Imperfect Cell with the Kikoho, is based more on using risky but overwhelming firepower that allows you to hit way above your weight class.

Meanwhile, Yamcha would be more about overwhelming opponents with speed and aggression, given his love of fierce, rapid barrages of attacks (even the Spirit Ball, which allows you to rapidly attack several times in succession and change the angle each time). And I guess Chaotzu would concentrate more on an ethos kind of like his preferred technique, the Dodonpa - fast, precise, long-ranged ki attacks meant to pierce through a strong defense to make up for his lack of physical prowess.

And meanwhile Goku is a combat savant who just kind of goes with the flow and adjusts how he fights on the fly as needed to deal with the various kinds of opponents he's fought throughout his career, so it's probably for the best he sticks to the fundamentals since he's almost kind of too gifted and instinctual to make a good teacher for the complex stuff.

Ooh, maybe instead of coming years later from Trunks and Goten (who never even wield a sword at any point in the canon timeline), the Kikoukenjutsu School could be the joint creation of Paopao and Yajirobe? With Paopao mixing hand-to-hand with swordsmanship and using the sword as a medium for ki attacks, while Yajirobe has more of a pure swordsmanship focus (and also probably very few students that Paopao often ends up teaching anyway, because he's pretty lazy, but whenever he gets it together for a while he's a pretty good instructor).

I hadn't even considered Goku haha, but yeah that would make sense, especially given his own training. Also the Upa idea is fantastic, that could be super fun and wholesome and lead to some great developments!

Right? Honestly, I just want Gohan to grow up with this huge extended "family" of people he meets just seeing the world (possibly on the Flying Nimbus) like those orphans from the anime filler, and also a bunch of people his dad used to know who are always able to recognize that he's Goku's kid somehow, like that fox kid on Papaya Island who was Goku's "brother." And Eighter! Holy crap, give me Kid Gohan and Eighter meeting.

But yeah, definitely Upa, who's closer to Gohan in age than the other Z-Fighters (though still closer to them than him) and, most importantly, someone who really gets being a gentle kind of person who doesn't want to fight and hurt people, but was also inspired to become strong like Goku regardless.

Ooh, what if Upa ends up specializing in the staff and Goku gives him the Power Pole? I really wish Goku or someone was still using that thing, I love staff fighters, especially extending staves.
 
Last edited:
I know, right? Like, I don't mind a sci-fi uplift every now and then, but I feel like actually creating an interesting world with fun stories to tell often takes a backseat to just being as efficient as possible with power-ups and building up the most dakka. Which is just not the kind of world-building I think is fun. I'd much rather think about stuff like what the different styles the Z Fighters teach would be like. So I will.
Agreed, I feel there's much more that can be gained from the characters going on a journey of self improvements and spiritual growth than just "Slap more tech on me!"

Dragon Ball Online actually had some good starting points for that. Krillin created the curriculum for the New Turtle School based on his own experiences of constantly having to fight people way stronger than him, often in a group, so the style he created is based on using teamwork and/or cunning to whittle down a superior opponent until you can land a finishing blow, while Tien's New Crane School, based on stuff like his managing to stymie Imperfect Cell with the Kikoho, is based more on using risky but overwhelming firepower that allows you to hit way above your weight class.

Meanwhile, Yamcha would be more about overwhelming opponents with speed and aggression, given his love of fierce, rapid barrages of attacks (even the Spirit Ball, which allows you to rapidly attack several times in succession and change the angle each time). And I guess Chaotzu would concentrate more on an ethos kind of like his preferred technique, the Dodonpa - fast, precise, long-ranged ki attacks meant to pierce through a strong defense to make up for his lack of physical prowess.

And meanwhile Goku is a combat savant who just kind of goes with the flow and adjusts how he fights on the fly as needed to deal with the various kinds of opponents he's fought throughout his career, so it's probably for the best he sticks to the fundamentals since he's almost kind of too gifted and instinctual to make a good teacher for the complex stuff.
There's definitely a lot of potential there, though I would also hasten to note that at this point in time the strength and skill gap is not so immense, nor has the world so often been in jeopardy that I think these ideologies would be so set. Tenshihan would likely still feel (Correctly I hope) that surpassing Goku and Piccolo through hard work and goods training is possible, and while Krillin and Yamcha may not have quite that degree of confidence, Krillin's not been slapped down as hard as often and both would likely feel not 'quite' as out of step with Goku as they would later. Ooh Chaosu also had telekinetic abilities so he may focus on stuff like psychic techniques too, though yeah precise, sharp ki attacks would fit him well, when I want to give him more to do I often given him the ability to use his skills to disrupt his foes Ki to varying degrees and creating psychic illusions so they don't know who the real Chaosu is or where his attacks are coming from.

Good insights on Goku yeah, he kinda just picks stuff up and figures it out, turning that into a lesson outside of sparring would probably be hard, though he did do OK with Gohan I think.


Ooh, maybe instead of coming years later from Trunks and Goten (who never even wield a sword at any point in the canon timeline), the Kikoukenjutsu School could be the joint creation of Paopao and Yajirobe? With Paopao mixing hand-to-hand with swordsmanship and using the sword as a medium for ki attacks, while Yajirobe has more of a pure swordsmanship focus (and also probably very few students that Paopao often ends up teaching anyway, because he's pretty lazy, but whenever he gets it together for a while he's a pretty good instructor).
Ooh I like that, it has a lot of potential, though aah Korin will be lonely XD Also I could see Yamcha swinging by to help with the school in the early days, he's not as advanced in sword use as them but would likely make a good assistant or sparring partner.

Right? Honestly, I just want Gohan to grow up with this huge extended "family" of people he meets just seeing the world (possibly on the Flying Nimbus) like those orphans from the anime filler, and also a bunch of people his dad used to know who are always able to recognize that he's Goku's kid somehow, like that fox kid on Papaya Island who was Goku's "brother." And Eighter! Holy crap, give me Kid Gohan and Eighter meeting.

But yeah, definitely Upa, who's closer to Gohan in age than the other Z-Fighters (though still closer to them than him) and, most importantly, someone who really gets being a gentle kind of person who doesn't want to fight and hurt people, but was also inspired to become strong like Goku regardless.

Ooh, what if Upa ends up specializing in the staff and Goku gives him the Power Pole? I really wish Goku or someone was still using that thing, I love staff fighters, especially extending staves.
That could be very wholesome, much more fun than being brutalized and going into constant death battles XD

Yeah I could definitely see that being a good big brother, little brother relationship, Upa would probably be easier to talk to than the intense Chichi or somewhat not totally keyed in with emotions Goku, so he'd probably peg how Goha feels about fighting and not liking it before anyone else.

Oooh that could be very fun, it was a shame to see those more martial art elements fade out and given the staff grows even if it breaks that is not the end XD

Vegeta: (Breaks staff) hah, your toy is broken!
Upa: No, now I'm dual wielding (Extends two power pole strikes into Vegeta's eyes.)
 
There's definitely a lot of potential there, though I would also hasten to note that at this point in time the strength and skill gap is not so immense, nor has the world so often been in jeopardy that I think these ideologies would be so set. Tenshihan would likely still feel (Correctly I hope) that surpassing Goku and Piccolo through hard work and goods training is possible, and while Krillin and Yamcha may not have quite that degree of confidence, Krillin's not been slapped down as hard as often and both would likely feel not 'quite' as out of step with Goku as they would later. Ooh Chaosu also had telekinetic abilities so he may focus on stuff like psychic techniques too, though yeah precise, sharp ki attacks would fit him well, when I want to give him more to do I often given him the ability to use his skills to disrupt his foes Ki to varying degrees and creating psychic illusions so they don't know who the real Chaosu is or where his attacks are coming from.

True, but even so there's at least bits of that already present: Krillin is already used to being the underdog in most of his fights by this point (just look at his fight with Piccolo in the last tournament), and Tien already at least knows the techniques that are going to keep him relevant longer than any other non-alien in the cast. Plus, it makes sense with their characters as they are even now, especially Tien, who never gave up on trying to match Goku's strength even as the gap kept getting wider, and so would naturally gravitate toward ways to maximize his output if he can't just match Goku blow for blow anymore.

Speaking of Krillin's fight with Piccolo, I always enjoyed that fight and I think it's highly underrated, because nobody really talks about it even though it's one of the best showings for Krillin's strengths as a fighter. He manages to use misdirection and Piccolo's underestimation of him to briefly bridge the gap in power and get several solid hits in, and even by the end he surprises Piccolo with his resilience and resourcefulness to such an extent that Piccolo even mentally rues to himself that world domination might not be as easy as he assumed.

As for Chaotzu, I was always under the impression that in Dragon Ball psychic powers are something you're just born with, rather than something you can learn, so Chaotzu can't really teach that part to students much like (at least I assume) Piccolo couldn't teach Namekian magic to Earthlings.

Oooh that could be very fun, it was a shame to see those more martial art elements fade out and given the staff grows even if it breaks that is not the end XD

Vegeta: (Breaks staff) hah, your toy is broken!
Upa: No, now I'm dual wielding (Extends two power pole strikes into Vegeta's eyes.)

Plus Bora uses a spear, so Upa could carry over what he learns from his dad into his training with Goku by using the staff, which is always nice.
 
True, but even so there's at least bits of that already present: Krillin is already used to being the underdog in most of his fights by this point (just look at his fight with Piccolo in the last tournament), and Tien already at least knows the techniques that are going to keep him relevant longer than any other non-alien in the cast. Plus, it makes sense with their characters as they are even now, especially Tien, who never gave up on trying to match Goku's strength even as the gap kept getting wider, and so would naturally gravitate toward ways to maximize his output if he can't just match Goku blow for blow anymore.
I think you raise an excellent point, but I also fear my own may not have come across clearly, so please forgive me for re-clarifying a few things.

First and foremost, I am curious, would you be approaching this AU from the perspective of 'humans could never keep up with Sayians outside of super specific attacks and group tactics' or is it more a 'they can/could but they just have to be creative about it and it was only Toriyama not wanting them to that stopped them in canon'.

Secondly, and more to re-clarify what I was trying to say. While you are right the cast were rather heavily eclipsed at this stage (Save for Tenshinhan who at least near matched weighted Goku and was seemingly deemed his lancer). At this stage no one knows Goku is an alien and so the main thing they'd think gives him the edge is natural talent and training with Kami, over biology that just makes him better than them. Thus I feel the idea of catching up to Goku, (while probably still Tenshinhan's goal) wouldn't be something they deem an impossibility for themselves or others inherently, just a very steep task. Thus while I can see their schools leaning in the directions you suggest, I don't think it'd have the same sense of "We & no one else can ever match him" vibe that I get from that approach, maybe I read too much into it, sorry.

Speaking of Krillin's fight with Piccolo, I always enjoyed that fight and I think it's highly underrated, because nobody really talks about it even though it's one of the best showings for Krillin's strengths as a fighter. He manages to use misdirection and Piccolo's underestimation of him to briefly bridge the gap in power and get several solid hits in, and even by the end he surprises Piccolo with his resilience and resourcefulness to such an extent that Piccolo even mentally rues to himself that world domination might not be as easy as he assumed.
Completely agreed with you there, I love that fight! I also love Piccolo's little cape blocking trick it even inspired an OCs fighting style in an original series I'm tinkering with XD

But yeah it was easily one of Krillin's best showings, he went in hard, fast and with a certain amount of both self assurance and confidence which made him feel like a plucky underdog but not one who was being made a joke of in anyway and as you noted he fought really well.

As for Chaotzu, I was always under the impression that in Dragon Ball psychic powers are something you're just born with, rather than something you can learn, so Chaotzu can't really teach that part to students much like (at least I assume) Piccolo couldn't teach Namekian magic to Earthlings.
That is indeed entirely possible, though if nothing else those can be ways to keep him relevant in a fight even if he doesn't have any or many students.
Plus Bora uses a spear, so Upa could carry over what he learns from his dad into his training with Goku by using the staff, which is always nice.
Well said, I can see plenty of potential there.

I always liked tinkering with Upa creating a spear or arrow styles Ki attack which was designed to have a piercing focus, possibly combined with something elemental like lightning or exploding once it has pierce its foe.
 
First and foremost, I am curious, would you be approaching this AU from the perspective of 'humans could never keep up with Sayians outside of super specific attacks and group tactics' or is it more a 'they can/could but they just have to be creative about it and it was only Toriyama not wanting them to that stopped them in canon'.

I'm approaching it from the perspective of "I don't care about canon, I think it makes a better story if they can keep up and contribute, so they can."

Like, maybe most of them still end up dead by the end of the Saiyan Saga, but damn it, they're taking Nappa with them this time.

Secondly, and more to re-clarify what I was trying to say. While you are right the cast were rather heavily eclipsed at this stage (Save for Tenshinhan who at least near matched weighted Goku and was seemingly deemed his lancer). At this stage no one knows Goku is an alien and so the main thing they'd think gives him the edge is natural talent and training with Kami, over biology that just makes him better than them. Thus I feel the idea of catching up to Goku, (while probably still Tenshinhan's goal) wouldn't be something they deem an impossibility for themselves or others inherently, just a very steep task. Thus while I can see their schools leaning in the directions you suggest, I don't think it'd have the same sense of "We & no one else can ever match him" vibe that I get from that approach, maybe I read too much into it, sorry.

Well, what I'm trying to get as it that they're concentrating on areas where they have an advantage over Goku, who currently holds the edge over them in raw power. Krillin has a knack for cunning and misdirection, so he's leaning on that strength to try to make up for it, and is going to pass on what he learns about how to do that. Tien has an array of powerful techniques that can do tremendous amounts of damage even Goku can't quite pull off with a single attack, so that's an advantage he wants to be able to make full use of next time. And so on.

That doesn't mean they've given up on ever trying to fight Goku on even terms, but as great martial artists, they aren't going to ignore areas where they have an advantage over Goku and not pursue them in favor of just spending all their time trying to bridge the gap in raw power, and the unique characteristics of martial arts arise from figuring out how to turn weaknesses into strengths, and seeking whatever advantage can bring you victory in a particular field of battle.

Krillin is small and lacking in raw strength? Then he'll emphasize misdirection and technique to make up for it. Yamcha's Kamehameha isn't as powerful? Then instead of firing it, he'll use the gathered energy to charge up his Wolf Fang Fist and rush into close quarters where he's strongest. Et cetera.

Basically, they haven't so much given up on getting stronger, as they've determined that at least for now they need to fight smarter and play to their strengths to bridge the gap. And no one starts strong (well, except for several aliens, but whatever), so that's all going to be invaluable for their students, too.

Well said, I can see plenty of potential there.

I always liked tinkering with Upa creating a spear or arrow styles Ki attack which was designed to have a piercing focus, possibly combined with something elemental like lightning or exploding once it has pierce its foe.

Uub actually has a move called "Lightning Arrow" in GT, but it's basically just a smaller-scale, less-indiscriminate version of Super Buu's "Human Extinction Attack." Looks really cool, though:

 
Last edited:
I'm approaching it from the perspective of "I don't care about canon, I think it makes a better story if they can keep up and contribute, so they can."

Like, maybe most of them still end up dead by the end of the Saiyan Saga, but damn it, they're taking Nappa with them this time.
Me (Wild applause) "Perfection, ideal, exactly the kind of thing I like to read!"

Honestly there's so many ways to mess with the Sayian Saga if you star the cast down different paths early enough :D

Edit: if you need any "How to match a super sayian" technique ideas, hit me up :D

Well, what I'm trying to get as it that they're concentrating on areas where they have an advantage over Goku, who currently holds the edge over them in raw power. Krillin has a knack for cunning and misdirection, so he's leaning on that strength to try to make up for it, and is going to pass on what he learns about how to do that. Tien has an array of powerful techniques that can do tremendous amounts of damage even Goku can't quite pull off with a single attack, so that's an advantage he wants to be able to make full use of next time. And so on.

That doesn't mean they've given up on ever trying to fight Goku on even terms, but as great martial artists, they aren't going to ignore areas where they have an advantage over Goku and not pursue them in favor of just spending all their time trying to bridge the gap in raw power, and the unique characteristics of martial arts arise from figuring out how to turn weaknesses into strengths, and seeking whatever advantage can bring you victory in a particular field of battle.

Krillin is small and lacking in raw strength? Then he'll emphasize misdirection and technique to make up for it. Yamcha's Kamehameha isn't as powerful? Then instead of firing it, he'll use the gathered energy to charge up his Wolf Fang Fist and rush into close quarters where he's strongest. Et cetera.

Basically, they haven't so much given up on getting stronger, as they've determined that at least for now they need to fight smarter and play to their strengths to bridge the gap. And no one starts strong (well, except for several aliens, but whatever), so that's all going to be invaluable for their students, too.
Ah I see, thanks for clarifying, that definitely help a lot, it is giving their styles a sense of cohesion, directions and re-definition to fit with their maturing outlook, needs and experiences over a surrender to the inevitability of always being second best, that makes sense. I could even see their schools or personal styles going through evolutions over the course of the story, but yeah good insights there, that definitely works well! It also makes sense for them to be defining their own styles more, even if they were still wearing the turtle gi they have all to one degree or another surpassed Roshi and his turtle style was an ideal fit for Goku due to its emphasis on stamina, but isn't as easy of a fit for Krillin and Yamcha.

I also feel it broadens the schools somewhat from the Dragon Ball online one's, Krillin isn't just a group tactics person, his specialty and focus is on stuff like reaction time, adaptability, and controllable ki attacks all of which require a focuses, calm mind and excellent Ki control. I at least feel that'd show off the style he seemed to use when he fought Piccolo.

Meanwhile Tenshinhan's is more direct, focused on sharp strikes, devastating blows with speed and stamina complimenting one another, with an emphasis on developing one's ki reserves and mastering the body for techniques like the four witches, you have to be able to endure some real harshness to master his developing style, but it will allow the students a great deal of strength.

Yamcha's as noted focuses on CQC, so likely very speed and grappling centric, with a strong emphasis on counter attacks, precision and speed, he likely gets very good at focusing his Ki in a defensive manner and emphasized Ki attacks that keep one's Ki close to the body, acting as an enhancer to blows rather than a replacement.

Chaozu is harder, but I think yo covered him well earlier precise Ki strikes, maybe mixed in with some advancing psychic stuff.

The idea of Yamcha turning the Kame Hame Ha into a body enchancer has me imagining him managing to engineer his own version of the Kaio-Ken (Though perhaps not as straining or as powerful) before ever meeting King Kai which I think would be awesome. The games often reference I think they are called, Rush techniques, which would fit that well, charge for a Ki attack, then cycle it back into the body and be briefly jacked up and propelled forward with far more intensity than usual till the effect wears off.

Uub actually has a move called "Lightning Arrow" in GT, but it's basically just a smaller-scale, less-indiscriminate version of Super Buu's "Human Extinction Attack." Looks really cool, though:
Oooh yes that is a cool attack :D
 
Back
Top