The amount of lethal force PRT and Protectorate is allowed to use is giving the criminals a stern look.
If the criminal has a kill order they can escalate to wiggling their finger a bit.
Divine Administration - of Gods and Bureaucracy (Worm/Exalted)
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The amount of lethal force PRT and Protectorate is allowed to use is giving the criminals a stern look.
If the criminal has a kill order they can escalate to wiggling their finger a bit.
Always Late
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Self sel-, what? No, that's not how getting powers works in Worm. You don't get to pick what you get, and its up to the user to make it effective or not. That's literally the entire hook of Taylor as Skitter: Making a seemingly useless power effective.
No need to be an ass, and an incorrect one at that. If you want to bitch about the PRT/Protectorate ROE, please take it someplace else.
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Villains with powers that can lolnope the containment foam are bound to last longer while the ones that cannot escape it will be captured more quickly. It would result in a large villain population somewhat immune to the foam. Natural selection at it's best.
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*facepalm*
No.
If you are a villain and you have a power+personal skillset that is not good at dealing with containment foam or the situations in which containment foam is likely to be used on you, you cease to be a villain in short order. That is what he is saying.
Mind, the villain population should also be somewhat self-selecting for dealing with bullets but at some point you just need to handwave things away and say "Cauldron did it" to even have a story.
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actually it's "anything that doesn't kill them, taking into account the presence of any healers" new wave can get away with a lot since panca can put anyone with a working brain back together. Given most villains will follow generally similar rules of engagement it tends not to give either side much of an advantage.
if somone has a kill order its "kill the fuck out of them as quickly as possible, preferably before they know you're there. Do the same if they try to surrender". Kill orders basically mean the target has been sentenced to death, and killing them under any situation is a legal killing.
not so much, bullets are not used all that often in cape fights, at least not by anyone more accurate than gangers.
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Before it escalated to cape fights, villains should have been dealing with police in the first place as first responders. And the police would ordinarily have no compunctions against shooting someone that used a power on them.
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most cops will probably withdraw if they encounter a cape, barring immediate threat to life. also it's a lot easier for a wealthy cape to buy bullet resistant armor than foam resistant armor.
Well if we're going to take 'realistic' Worm all the way...
Most Capes would probably try their best to not be seen at all and use their powers out of sight best they can. I.E the Taylor who uses her swarm while eating at a coffee shop sitting across the room from the head of Medhall, as nearby some ABB gang members are attacking a bank.
Basically IMO you'd end up with four 'Cape' Groups.
The Heroes who'd work with cops / local enforcement as a sort of 'specialist' to respond to 'Caped' activity. They'd probably be either an employee under the state and / or federal government.
The Rogues who'd go into business either publicly or not.
The 'Public' Villains who being Brutes / Some form of protection openly lead their forces into stuff. (Think Lung.)
The 'Hidden' Villains who do things from blocks away and do their best to never be seen. (Basically Coil / Taylor in notes' fic.)
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Sure, which makes it a better police take-down, but it doesn't make it more effective than a bullet which is the claim I was responding to.
Interesting point, but I doubt that would be a significant effect.
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That's a random unsupported assertion. They might run if their morale is completely broken but otherwise they still need to do something about the random power using guy who isn't immune to bullets.
And how many criminals in canon actually had bullet resistant armor? Not that many! (NB - If it's not tinker designed bullshit, getting shot still sucks a hell of a lot and you likely aren't going anywhere, you're just not dead.)
Usually, trigger-happy police are frowned upon.
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As are superpowered terrorists who freely roam the streets. I'll take "a different kind of cop" over the typical Worm criminal any day. It's still better than Bet's status quo.
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"He was in fear for his life and took what steps were necessary to defend himself."
Yeah, that has a recent example of not getting the cop out of murder charges.
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"in other news, a supervillan attack on a police station has left at least 3 dead, and dozens wounded."
there is a very good reason the government's policy towards cape fights is to try and keep them as nonlethal as possible. There are a hell of a lot more villains than heroes, if the law started gunning down villains there wouldn't really be any winners of the resulting escalation.
there is a very good reason the government's policy towards cape fights is to try and keep them as nonlethal as possible. There are a hell of a lot more villains than heroes, if the law started gunning down villains there wouldn't really be any winners of the resulting escalation.
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Blatant murder charges, sure, but it still worked enough. And that's normal people witbout weapons, not superpowered criminals.
Villains don't cooperate like that and there are still many more cops than them.
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That assumes you could get Kaiser, Lung, Skidmark, and Butcher to all agree that the sun rises in the east, much less form a united front against the cops. On a larger scale, a united front didn't even form against Scion in canon until Khepri forced one.
Canon Worm has a bad habit of assuming that increased 'realism' automatically translates to increased grimness, darkness, bleakness, and/or cynicism, as if all five traits are directly related. That's just not true.
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Not really. There are numerous other ways to remain free. Not getting caught, breaking out of prison, or having someone else break you out. Just to name a few. Also all things confirmed viable (and used by the criminal population) in canon.
Except they do? We see the villains cooperate several times in canon. If the Protectorate/PRT/Cops started bringing lethal force to bare, they wouldn't just take it.
Your "Hidden" villains do exist in canon. As you noted, Coil is one. Lisa wanted to be one as well, but Grue wouldn't let her. Taylor actually tried this, iirc, on her first night out. Unfortunately, Lung spotted her (she moved, disturbed some gravel or something). That and Taylor's issues (at the time) would've eventually forced her out anyways, even if she hadn't joined the Undersiders (which put her in the same situation as Lisa). Dinah definitely would've been another, and essentially was, albeit unwillingly. Even after she was freed, she never really went out, and I don't think she ever "officially" donned a cape name (although she likely had one).
However, keep in mind shards are pushing people towards violence, and the Entities have a lot of experience tuning the restrictions/changes to get the results they want, and wearing a mask creates a clear distinction between cape life and normal life, likely something propagated by Cauldron in the early days.
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- Location
- madison
lone villains are somewhat rare, most of them will have a team or gang that might seek revenge. Not to mention villains on the local level might get a bit more quick to go lethal in general if one of them gets killed.
it wouldn' need to be anything united. My point is that if the government started killing supervillans the villains would go lethal right back and it would be terrible. Imagine something on the scale of ABB's rampage happening in almost every major city, only with the other gangs sitting back and letting it happen rather than stepping in to stop them.
even if the PRT ultimately won, the damage would be catastrophic. It also wouldn't solve the villain problem, more of them would trigger. Society benefits by getting most capes to agree to where kid gloves, even if all it means is it dies a slow death rather than a fast one.
The underpinnings of the story of Worm plot are basically B/C Cauldron, more specifically B/C PtV. I'm not quite sure if our discussion is assuming one or the other (Space Whale mind whammy) or (Cauldron PtV) don't or do exist when we're making a more uh 'common-sense'(?) Worm.
Anyway I feel like we're starting to get to the point where this discussion would be best served in a Worm Discussion Thread / Idea thread.
The bolded bit really seems odd to me, given that the first public hero died to a norm with a baseball bat. And I know that this is more a criticism of Worm canon, but it's something that has really bugged me. (Yeah, I know it's a setting conceit, but it's a darn annoying one.)
Also, yayness for a new chapter, and I very much look forward to Taylor's revenge on Coil once she respawns.
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Yeah, Worm Canon has some weird things in it, no doubt about that!
But I try to stick to them, and try to put an at least somewhat reasonable spin on it. Because a lot of them can actually serve as illustrations for the things in this story, assuming I do it properly (which may not always succeed, this is my first story after all).
Take this issue for example. The "no kill policy".
It consists of two things, more or less
- Capes are not supposed to kill other capes.
- Heroes are not supposed to kill at all.
Now those are actually two separate things.
The second is easy to explain: public perception and Protectorate-policy. For the purpose of this chapter, the effect is obvious: If Lisa wants to officially be a hero (instead of a villain), she best sticks to a no-kill policy despite her nifty new powers (which you'll see in 3.11).
The first - well, that's a bit more iffy. However, in some countries there is legal precedent that can be applied here - only to parahuman powers. Specifically, in some countries killing someone with a gun gets evaluated much more harshly. In some, this only goes for certain types of weapons (often stuff that is outright illegal). If we dip into fictional examples, in Shadowrun killing someone with magic will get you into a lot of trouble even if it was justified self-defense.
And this actually makes quite a bit of sense if you consider that the state might have an interest in marking certain things as "especially heinous" - either because they really are that cruel (certain weapons) or because they're that dangerous (certain weapons, magic). This obviously applies to parahuman powers.
And from canon, we actually see that Assault with a Parahuman Power is a legal charge. Canary's case might have been an extreme one - but it shows that this is a legal charge, with potentially very severe punishments. Which essentially turns it into a threat and reminder to every cape to be very very careful with your powers. This actually explains the general "no kill policy" quite well.
Now as for why those policies and laws exist - "Cauldron" is the obvious answer. But that doesn't mean they don't have any other foundation - people would certainly have some interest in deescalating parahuman conflict, and in making sure parahumans can't abuse their powers.
So anyway - I am aware that this whole thing is weird. I'd appreciate it if extensive discussions about Worm-canon get taken to the respective threads, though I certainly don't mind some discussion here! It keeps my mind lively and has already given me a bunch of ideas over the course of...damn, it has almost been a year. Yikes!
But I try to stick to them, and try to put an at least somewhat reasonable spin on it. Because a lot of them can actually serve as illustrations for the things in this story, assuming I do it properly (which may not always succeed, this is my first story after all).
Take this issue for example. The "no kill policy".
It consists of two things, more or less
- Capes are not supposed to kill other capes.
- Heroes are not supposed to kill at all.
Now those are actually two separate things.
The second is easy to explain: public perception and Protectorate-policy. For the purpose of this chapter, the effect is obvious: If Lisa wants to officially be a hero (instead of a villain), she best sticks to a no-kill policy despite her nifty new powers (which you'll see in 3.11).
The first - well, that's a bit more iffy. However, in some countries there is legal precedent that can be applied here - only to parahuman powers. Specifically, in some countries killing someone with a gun gets evaluated much more harshly. In some, this only goes for certain types of weapons (often stuff that is outright illegal). If we dip into fictional examples, in Shadowrun killing someone with magic will get you into a lot of trouble even if it was justified self-defense.
And this actually makes quite a bit of sense if you consider that the state might have an interest in marking certain things as "especially heinous" - either because they really are that cruel (certain weapons) or because they're that dangerous (certain weapons, magic). This obviously applies to parahuman powers.
And from canon, we actually see that Assault with a Parahuman Power is a legal charge. Canary's case might have been an extreme one - but it shows that this is a legal charge, with potentially very severe punishments. Which essentially turns it into a threat and reminder to every cape to be very very careful with your powers. This actually explains the general "no kill policy" quite well.
Now as for why those policies and laws exist - "Cauldron" is the obvious answer. But that doesn't mean they don't have any other foundation - people would certainly have some interest in deescalating parahuman conflict, and in making sure parahumans can't abuse their powers.
So anyway - I am aware that this whole thing is weird. I'd appreciate it if extensive discussions about Worm-canon get taken to the respective threads, though I certainly don't mind some discussion here! It keeps my mind lively and has already given me a bunch of ideas over the course of...damn, it has almost been a year. Yikes!
Where in cabon did a parahuman get charged for defending themselves against an active-threat human?
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Canary was having an argument with her Ex when she told him to go fuck himself, to gruesome results. I'm sorry to say I don't know where this 'cabon' is.
An argument is not the same as defending yourself against someone putting your life at risk, especially if you end up Mastering them and causing greivous injury.Canary was having an argument with her Ex when she told him to go fuck himself, to gruesome results. I'm sorry to say I don't know where this 'cabon' is.
The claim was that, upon being attacked using your powers meant that there was "no contest" ,legally. Your description of the Canary incident makes it seem like a bad example of that.
The whole issue with Canary was the Birdcage.
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