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Disney+'s WandaVision

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More like working backwards from the fact that the next Dr. Strange movie is going to be titled 'in the multiverse of madness'.

Like, I don't particularly think it's necessarily bad what they're doing here standalone, but from the perspective of building up to the idea of the multiverse, it's just kind of weird. It's like, if you know a show's upcoming season finale is going to be titled 'The revenge of bigfoot'. Then in the first episode involving bigfoot, it turns out to be a con artist in a rubber mask, and in the second one, what we thought was bigfoot was really just a oddly hairy dude.

Again, not saying any is necessarily a bad choice artistically, it just strike me as a weird way to build hype.
 
bluntblade said:
On a more serious note: what Wanda does to Agatha sits with me really, really uncomfortably. We've had a ton of stuff about how agonising it is to be a part of Wanda's playset throughout the show. And now we're meant to see it as a clever act of mercy for Agatha?
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On this point here, I'm 100% sure it's not written as mercy. Agatha outright says it's cruelty, and Wanda doesn't deny it. And there's the post credits scene where Wanda's astral projection is incredibly ominous looking while studying the Darkhold, which Agatha says is the Book of the Damned. And the Scarlet Witch is portrayed as a powerful but very dangerous thing so far.

My ultimate takeaway is that Wanda may be in a better place emotionally with the end of the series, but she also has the potential to turn down a very dark road. We'll have to see where this goes next, but I do want to see acknowledgment that Wanda is at fault; the creation of the Hex was a spontaneous act of grief and she was deeply antagonized by Agatha and Hayward, but that doesn't negate the real harm she perpetuated on the people of Westview and on Agatha at the end. Hopefully she has a serious redemptive arc through Doctor Strange 2 and onward, presumably of the "comes great responsibility" stripe.
 
Renewal said:
On this point here, I'm 100% sure it's not written as mercy. Agatha outright says it's cruelty, and Wanda doesn't deny it. And there's the post credits scene where Wanda's astral projection is incredibly ominous looking while studying the Darkhold, which Agatha says is the Book of the Damned. And the Scarlet Witch is portrayed as a powerful but very dangerous thing so far.

My ultimate takeaway is that Wanda may be in a better place emotionally with the end of the series, but she also has the potential to turn down a very dark road. We'll have to see where this goes next, but I do want to see acknowledgment that Wanda is at fault; the creation of the Hex was a spontaneous act of grief and she was deeply antagonized by Agatha and Hayward, but that doesn't negate the real harm she perpetuated on the people of Westview and on Agatha at the end. Hopefully she has a serious redemptive arc through Doctor Strange 2 and onward, presumably of the "comes great responsibility" stripe.
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But then Monica's watching and seems to absolve Wanda of everything? It's weird how they frame it, and I don't know what that's saying thematically.
 
bluntblade said:
It frustrates me so much that Vision going home was set up to be a confrontation with Wanda, the one that she sidestepped in the middle of the show... and then was delayed and delayed so it just became him rescuing her. That trades something potentially so powerful for the same Marvel-smashy we've had been getting for thirteen years. We didn't need it. Heck, White Vision himself seemed to come out of nowhere because they went from "we're taking back our salvage" so "eh, we can just power up a new one that works just as well." Who made that thing, Justin Hammer?

Actually please make it Justin Hammer, I love Sam Rockwell.

On a more serious note: what Wanda does to Agatha sits with me really, really uncomfortably. We've had a ton of stuff about how agonising it is to be a part of Wanda's playset throughout the show. And now we're meant to see it as a clever act of mercy for Agatha?
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Yeah them not letting Wanda and Vision have another talk after episode 5 really sucked especially since it would be a nice way to show their growth over the course of the show. White was the old corpse vision she left behind at the base

What made her Sitcom trapping Agatha made it seem like a mercy it seemed like Wandas try at a ironic prison. Agatha was nosy so now she's trapped in the role of a nosy neighbor and is basically on ice so if Wanda ever needs her in the future she can just free her.
 
bluntblade said:
But then Monica's watching and seems to absolve Wanda of everything? It's weird how they frame it, and I don't know what that's saying thematically.
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I think Monica's goodbye to Wanda is an acknowledgement of a complicated situation. I think it parallels the recent discussion in one of the Star Wars threads about forgiveness and redemption: Monica deeply empathizes with Wanda's actions and personally forgives her, but Wanda also acknowledges that she has no right to expect forgiveness from the citizens of Westview that she tormented. Wanda's going to need to work for and demonstrate her redemption for this act moving forward, especially in learning to control her power so nothing like the Hex ever happens again.
 
Not to mention of all the people out there she deserved the least in being forgiven. She was a Sokovian, her actions led to the destruction of her home, the deaths of all those around her and now she is the living incarnation of the Mind Stone.

Now Falcon and Winter Soldier is coming and I am eager to see whats gonna happen.
 
gyrobot said:
Not to mention of all the people out there she deserved the least in being forgiven. She was a Sokovian, her actions led to the destruction of her home, the deaths of all those around her and now she is the living incarnation of the Mind Stone.

Now Falcon and Winter Soldier is coming and I am eager to see whats gonna happen.
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I must admit to looking forward to Wyatt Russel's John Walker, AKA Fox News Captain America.
 
I was more jazzed about that before I learnt the were having the flagsmashers as the villains. It's like, OH NO, NOT THE PEOPLE WHO ARE OPPOSED TO NATIONALISM. IF THEY'RE NOT STOPPED, WE MIGHT NOT BE ABLE TO THINK WE'RE BETTER JUST BECAUSE OF WHAT BORDERS WE WERE BORN IN?

Like, I'm going to watch it because I have no standards with the MCU, and they might be doing something interesting with that, but I'm going to need to be won over.
 
tankdrop24 said:
I was more jazzed about that before I learnt the were having the flagsmashers as the villains. It's like, OH NO, NOT THE PEOPLE WHO ARE OPPOSED TO NATIONALISM. IF THEY'RE NOT STOPPED, WE MIGHT NOT BE ABLE TO THINK WE'RE BETTER JUST BECAUSE OF WHAT BORDERS WE WERE BORN IN?

Like, I'm going to watch it because I have no standards with the MCU, and they might be doing something interesting with that, but I'm going to need to be won over.
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Given the twist it is likely the the Flag Smashers are basically pawns in Zemo's game and people the US government think its okay to send US Agent on.
 
tankdrop24 said:
I was more jazzed about that before I learnt the were having the flagsmashers as the villains. It's like, OH NO, NOT THE PEOPLE WHO ARE OPPOSED TO NATIONALISM. IF THEY'RE NOT STOPPED, WE MIGHT NOT BE ABLE TO THINK WE'RE BETTER JUST BECAUSE OF WHAT BORDERS WE WERE BORN IN?

Like, I'm going to watch it because I have no standards with the MCU, and they might be doing something interesting with that, but I'm going to need to be won over.
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I'm 100% convinced the Flag Smashers will be revealed as Misguided Good Guys and that the USAgent and his government backers will be the Real Bad Guys, especially after WandaVision shows they will have government agents shoot children as to make Wanda's actions seem less aweful.
 
Renewal said:
I think Monica's goodbye to Wanda is an acknowledgement of a complicated situation. I think it parallels the recent discussion in one of the Star Wars threads about forgiveness and redemption: Monica deeply empathizes with Wanda's actions and personally forgives her, but Wanda also acknowledges that she has no right to expect forgiveness from the citizens of Westview that she tormented. Wanda's going to need to work for and demonstrate her redemption for this act moving forward, especially in learning to control her power so nothing like the Hex ever happens again.
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Yeah, it's very weird to see Monica say "Hey I get it, if I had your powers I'd probably do something similar" when like five minutes prior the entire town was collectively begging for death in order to be freed from Wanda's control. Like yeah Wanda was consumed by grief and and all but she still mind raped a whole town so she could play house. "They'll never know what you sacrificed for them" rings more than a little hollow when "what she sacrificed" was a literal dream family that she kind've knew was bullshit the whole time.

Like I know the MCU is pathologically averse to having the characters face consequences for their actions if their name isn't "Tony Stark", but come on.
 
Arthur Frayn said:
Yeah, it's very weird to see Monica say "Hey I get it, if I had your powers I'd probably do something similar" when like five minutes prior the entire town was collectively begging for death in order to be freed from Wanda's control. Like yeah Wanda was consumed by grief and and all but she still mind raped a whole town so she could play house. "They'll never know what you sacrificed for them" rings more than a little hollow when "what she sacrificed" was a literal dream family that she kind've knew was bullshit the whole time.

Like I know the MCU is pathologically averse to having the characters face consequences for their actions if their name isn't "Tony Stark", but come on.
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Even then, Age of Ultron reneged on Tony's hubris to a degree, and in Endgame the "you weren't there" is framed like an accusation at Cap, who spent that film running around and reaching out to people, and was in exile because Tony, ultimately, lost his rag in that base.
 
Gyrfalcon said:
How is it better if the message of the show is "radical ANTIFA activists are only misled into violence because they're tricked into being pawns of fascists?"
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Unfortunately that is a reality of real life is the idea that antifa are seen as useful idiots and not people capable of fighting the status quo effectively and that only the government can trusted and it's better just to hide and huddle in fear.
 
tankdrop24 said:
More like working backwards from the fact that the next Dr. Strange movie is going to be titled 'in the multiverse of madness'.
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I'd just point out that we already knew that the multiverse was a thing in the first Strange movie, and the climax of the movie was all about other realities trying to intrude and stuff, so this isn't necessarily a new development for the MCU.
 
tankdrop24 said:
More like working backwards from the fact that the next Dr. Strange movie is going to be titled 'in the multiverse of madness'.

Like, I don't particularly think it's necessarily bad what they're doing here standalone, but from the perspective of building up to the idea of the multiverse, it's just kind of weird. It's like, if you know a show's upcoming season finale is going to be titled 'The revenge of bigfoot'. Then in the first episode involving bigfoot, it turns out to be a con artist in a rubber mask, and in the second one, what we thought was bigfoot was really just a oddly hairy dude.

Again, not saying any is necessarily a bad choice artistically, it just strike me as a weird way to build hype.
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The Multiverse was already firmly established in Dr. Strange and Endgame, and we wouldn't be associating Wanda with that particular movie at all if they hadn't said Olsen was costarring via outside channels. You could argue that was a mistake because it set up unrealistic expectations, but I blame the audience for jumping to conclusions more than the studio for making a random casting announcement.
 
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tankdrop24 said:
I was more jazzed about that before I learnt the were having the flagsmashers as the villains. It's like, OH NO, NOT THE PEOPLE WHO ARE OPPOSED TO NATIONALISM. IF THEY'RE NOT STOPPED, WE MIGHT NOT BE ABLE TO THINK WE'RE BETTER JUST BECAUSE OF WHAT BORDERS WE WERE BORN IN?

Like, I'm going to watch it because I have no standards with the MCU, and they might be doing something interesting with that, but I'm going to need to be won over.
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I'm pinning everything on the hope that they serve to set up introducing Captain Anarchy in multiverse of madness
 
Flectarn said:
I'm pinning everything on the hope that they serve to set up introducing Captain Anarchy in multiverse of madness
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If he shows up at all it's much more likely to be a bit part in the clusterfuck they seem to be planning for the next Spider-man movie, where we've already got all the previous live action spider men all but confirmed to be involved. TBQF I don't trust marvel to pull off a spiderverse or clone saga movie, but I didn't think I would like Sony's Into the Spider-verse either so you never know.
 
You know I have a thought. This was actually supposed to be the third or fourth installment of Phase Four before COVID threw everything into the air. I wonder if the context for something are a bit off because of it, or what will be different in hindsight because of it. I mean, probably not, but it's worth a thought.
 
tankdrop24 said:
You know I have a thought. This was actually supposed to be the third or fourth installment of Phase Four before COVID threw everything into the air. I wonder if the context for something are a bit off because of it, or what will be different in hindsight because of it. I mean, probably not, but it's worth a thought.
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I heard that supposedly Wandavision had reshoots during COVID? That's possibly why some of the scenes in the finale have odd blocking, like no close interaction between characters, just shot-reverse shot dialogue, and then large spacing between characters like the citizens of Westview just standing in a large circle around Wanda. But yeah, it'll be interesting in hindsight when we have a clearer view of Phase 4.
 
Well with the Darkhold from Agents of SHIELD season 4 showing up in Wandavision, now no one can say Agents of SHIELD and the other MCU shows like the Netflix shows aren't part of the MCU in one shared universe! It's all connected.
 
What a wonderfully surface level analysis of the show. Thank you for sharing it, I'm sure we are all greatly enlightened by it.
 
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