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Deus Pater (Exalted/40k)

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Yog said:
[X] Usurpation - Command the spirit of the ship and take away that which the Admiral believes is his by right. When he humbles himself before you and acknowledges his own transgression, you will consider the possibility of forgiveness.

It is quite possible that the admiral had real need, and that he saw his actions as a good thing, both for the empire, and, in the long run, for the people he was conscripting. It is also possible that he heard of us being investigated by the inquisition, etc, etc. It is quite possible that he himself is a man who misstept, but is on the right path of life overall.
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Be that as it may, he believed himself above the laws of the Imperium. Instead of waiting for permission from the local government for pressganging rights, he instead choose to take it and run. People like these cause chaos and hatred in the Imperium and I highly doubt that the Admiral cares one whit about the people or the planet he was abducting people from.

Edit: Also if he had real need for conscripts, he would say so through the proper channels. That way, he would get the immense recruits necessary for the crisis. Instead he acts like a criminal, taking what he can before running away.
 
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@TenfoldShields makes a compelling argument.

[X] Usurpation - Command the spirit of the ship and take away that which the Admiral believes is his by right. When he humbles himself before you and acknowledges his own transgression, you will consider the possibility of forgiveness.
Adhoc vote count started by uju32 on Dec 11, 2018 at 2:23 PM, finished with 2178 posts and 58 votes.
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[X] Usurpation - Command the spirit of the ship and take away that which the Admiral believes is his by right. When he humbles himself before you and acknowledges his own transgression, you will consider the possibility of forgiveness.
 
Huh, surprise turnaround on Usurpation. I'm good either way tbh, but I do like the image of storming the bridge and casting the admiral down.
 
[X] Usurpation - Command the spirit of the ship and take away that which the Admiral believes is his by right. When he humbles himself before you and acknowledges his own transgression, you will consider the possibility of forgiveness.

Honestly I'm looking forwards to the Cardinal explaining to the Sisters that, no he didn't just summon a demon, he summoned the Machine Spirit of the Ship, and that while it is a Warp Entity, it is in no way similiar to the servants of the Dark Gods.
 
Nix's Warden said:
Honestly I'm looking forwards to the Cardinal explaining to the Sisters that, no he didn't just summon a demon, he summoned the Machine Spirit of the Ship, and that while it is a Warp Entity, it is in no way similiar to the servants of the Dark Gods.
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Toth: They kill my crew, harass my systems and scratch my paint. They are most vexing and troublesome those daemons.
 
[X] Usurpation - Command the spirit of the ship and take away that which the Admiral believes is his by right. When he humbles himself before you and acknowledges his own transgression, you will consider the possibility of forgiveness.
 
[X] Usurpation - Command the spirit of the ship and take away that which the Admiral believes is his by right. When he humbles himself before you and acknowledges his own transgression, you will consider the possibility of forgiveness.
 
[X] Usurpation - Command the spirit of the ship and take away that which the Admiral believes is his by right. When he humbles himself before you and acknowledges his own transgression, you will consider the possibility of forgiveness.
 
[X] Usurpation - Command the spirit of the ship and take away that which the Admiral believes is his by right. When he humbles himself before you and acknowledges his own transgression, you will consider the possibility of forgiveness.

Also because the "scion of the God Emperor commanding His war machines" thing is super fucking cool.
 
[X] Usurpation - Command the spirit of the ship and take away that which the Admiral believes is his by right. When he humbles himself before you and acknowledges his own transgression, you will consider the possibility of forgiveness.
 
[X] Usurpation - Command the spirit of the ship and take away that which the Admiral believes is his by right. When he humbles himself before you and acknowledges his own transgression, you will consider the possibility of forgiveness.

The mirror symmetry is indeed very poetic, and it hopefully minimized the collateral.
 
Azurath said:
Be that as it may, he believed himself above the laws of the Imperium. Instead of waiting for permission from the local government for pressganging rights, he instead choose to take it and run. People like these cause chaos and hatred in the Imperium and I highly doubt that the Admiral cares one whit about the people or the planet he was abducting people from.

Edit: Also if he had real need for conscripts, he would say so through the proper channels. That way, he would get the immense recruits necessary for the crisis. Instead he acts like a criminal, taking what he can before running away.
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This can be explained too. And note, that I am acting as a devil's advocate here, and basically making some excuses for him.

He might not have been sure of how reliable / loyal to the imperium / clean the government was. If the troubles with the inquisitor going to investigate a cardinal were known to him (they might have been), he could have been suspecting the government of corruption.
 
Yog said:
This can be explained too. And note, that I am acting as a devil's advocate here, and basically making some excuses for him.

He might not have been sure of how reliable / loyal to the imperium / clean the government was. If the troubles with the inquisitor going to investigate a cardinal were known to him (they might have been), he could have been suspecting the government of corruption.
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So instead of waiting for a reply, he simply attacked the Imperial world and run before he gets into trouble. What would occur if every Naval Admiral thought like that? That their mission is beyond the questioning and authority of any planetary government? That if they needed supplies, then they would simply take it, without a word said otherwise. That's how you fester hatred against the Imperium, when the people defending it think they are also above the laws set in place by the government.

Edit: So, I'm basically saying guilty until sufficient counter evidence is provided. We were given explicit info how the Admiral wasn't knowledgeable about our recent activities and as such did his press ganging on his own violation. He's breaking the law and enslaving citizens of the Imperium.
 
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dunk1010 said:
Sounds about right.

Was there really no other, preferably sane/reasonable, reason?
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Not really no. In warhammer the people who will listen to a plea of mercy, goodwill, and an appeal to common sense can be counted on one hand.

For multiple sectors.

And even then most of them are usually shot/burned for heresy, or stabbed in the night by assassins, or poisoned, or simply put in places where their "weakness" won't effect the larger Imperial Society.

Trust me when I say us coming up here, waking up the ship, and asking it to deal with it's rather annoying recent batch of parasites is the gentle option.

So far only one person has died, and we didn't even do it.
 
Azurath said:
What would occur if every Naval Admiral thought like that? That their mission is beyond the questioning and authority of any planetary government? That if they needed supplies, then they would simply take it, without a word said otherwise. That's how you fester hatred against the Imperium, when the people defending it think they are also above the laws set in place by the government.
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Uh, yeah. That's exactly what happens. But what's the planet going to do? Fight back? That's treason and then the Navy wrecks them.

Azurath said:
He's breaking the law and enslaving citizens of the Imperium.
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There's no Imperial law against slavery. If there were, the Navy wouldn't be known for press-ganging because Inquisitors would be blamming captains left and right for violating the Lex Imperialis. As far as Sanguisian law goes, it simply doesn't apply to the Imperial Navy. That's just how the Imperial hierarchy works. There's some fuzziness in this particular situation because of the question of who's more important out of a Cardinal and an Admiral, but Planetary Governors are just about at the bottom of the food chain among the Imperium's leadership.
 
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[X] Usurpation - Command the spirit of the ship and take away that which the Admiral believes is his by right. When he humbles himself before you and acknowledges his own transgression, you will consider the possibility of forgiveness.

Because it's not just going up there and kicking a some prideful ass. Any sufficiently killy person can do that, especially in 40k.
It's like confronting an arrogant noble not by putting a sabre between his ribs, but by stealing his fucking castle he's living in.
That? That's worthy to be called a miracle. And boy will toasters go all crispy from the implications.
 
I want this ship.

[x] Judgement - Life for life, and death for death. Slay the Admiral for his sins, and by the Emperor's own right claim dominion over this fleet. No longer will you tolerate the instruments of the Imperium to operate contrary to your will.
 
You know what, frick it, let's impress the shit out of everybody.

[X] Usurpation - Command the spirit of the ship and take away that which the Admiral believes is his by right. When he humbles himself before you and acknowledges his own transgression, you will consider the possibility of forgiveness.
 
Seventeen said:
Uh, yeah. That's exactly what happens. But what's the planet going to do? Fight back? That's treason and then the Navy wrecks them.


There's no Imperial law against slavery. If there were, the Navy wouldn't be known for press-ganging because Inquisitors would be blamming captains left and right for violating the Lex Imperialis. As far as Sanguisian law goes, it simply doesn't apply to the Imperial Navy. That's just how the Imperial hierarchy works. There's some fuzziness in this particular situation because of the question of who's more important out of a Cardinal and an Admiral, but Planetary Governors are just about at the bottom of the food chain among the Imperium's leadership.
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The Planet in question houses a Cardinal with political connections to the wider Imperium. We can have the Admiral shot for treason. The Admiral did this, because he thought that he would never meet us again in his lifetime. What kind of Admiral ignores regulations set forth by the Navy and pisses on the Hierarchy at his own leisure? Such an Admiral would have little to no friends to protect him from actual political consequences. Furthermore, I doubt his superiors and the wider Imperium appreciate the hatred of all the Planetary governors that he pisses off on a routine basis by ignoring their jurisdictions.

Edit: The press ganging itself isn't the problem, the problem is ignoring the planetary government. He stole from the civilian government without waiting for a reply to his request. This is the equivalent of the Royal Navy pressganging Canadians without a yes or no from the local governor.
 
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Azurath said:
We can have the Admiral shot for treason.
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Nope. Admiral Whats-his-face hasn't committed any acts of treason here, nor would Ignatius have the authority to execute him if he had. It would be one thing to execute a citizen of Sanguis or a priest under his jurisdiction, but the Ecclesiarchy and the Imperial Navy are parallel organisations. That's not to say he couldn't do it anyway and just wear the consequences, but the prosecution of the Lex Imperialis falls to the Adeptus Arbites and the Ordo Hereticus.
Azurath said:
What kind of Admiral ignores regulations set forth by the Navy and pisses on the Hierarchy at his own leisure?
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What regulations? Press-ganging is a naval tradition.
Azurath said:
Furthermore, I doubt his superiors and the wider Inperium appreciate the hatred of all the Planetary governors that he pisses off on a routine basis by ignoring their jurisdictions.
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An admiral is essentially his own superior within the sector. The thing I mentioned about Cardinal Importance vs. Admiral Importance is because they're roughly the same rank in their respective organisations. There might be a High Admiral or something in charge of the Sector Fleet as a whole, but would they care? They would have been doing the same thing when they were still in that stage of their career.

The wider Imperial leadership doesn't care because unlike our dear protagonist, they don't give a fuck about the common man. A planetary governor without any other stuff going on (like Ignatius also being a cardinal) is massively outranked by an admiral, so he might as well be one of the common men the top brass don't care about.
 
[X] Retribution - You will go to the Admiral on the bridge, and there in his place of power you will demonstrate the folly of his callous disregard. He will be broken, body and will, before you are done, and only then will you reforge him into a true servant of the Emperor.
 
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