Heavy Rain made a hundred million dollars.
Better, apparently - a hundred million euros.

I periodically forget that there was a time I had people opening conversations with me, the local "video game guy" about how awesome and artistic Heavy Rain was. It's probably willful ignorance on my part.

You see, if I pretend they're a flop, I only have to sustain contempt for David Cage, not the over a million people who bought Beyond: Two Souls.
 
Oh speaking of! I think we can probably hrmmmm...mark off "A metric ton of hype", "Stilted dialogue", "Unfeasibly large apartments", and "your choice didn't matter" just from the trailer! Not quite Bingo but we're getting there!

:V
Don't forget the creepy headshot. Okay it was him literally shot through the head but it looked creepy nonetheless. Now if someone can just go look through every hostage negotiation scene in every movie, maybe we can mark off another one. :V
 
Yeah and the question is why.

David Cage's work takes a decent crack at the "interactive movie" concept- which is something not many people have done, apart from the 1990's glut of variable-quality FMV games. It might not seem very good to somebody who picks apart stories for a hobby, but it appeals to people who want to immerse themselves in and control a Hollywood-style story.

I think the Mass Effect franchise bears a comparison here- a story that imitates huge slabs of Babylon 5 and the Galactica reboot becomes a success because people can interact so deeply with the story and characters.
 
Yeah and the question is why.




Because.

To be honest, I think the whole interactive choose your own adventure movie game thing is a cool concept, and until Telltale came along Cage was the only guy doing it. I kinda appreciate that.

Besides, the games are only shiftily written by film standards, certainly not by video game standards.
 
But why don't people here on SV like the works of David Cage?

Beyond: Two Souls almost made me roll my eyes out of my fucking skull more than once, but I never experienced actual personal hatred of it until the ending.

Willem Dafoe's character, having spent years being consumed with grief over the death of his wife and child, shoots himself in the head. When Ellen Page's character enters the "Infraworld" where dead spirits reside she sees that he's now reunited with them both and at peace. Remember kids, if you miss your dead loved ones just kill yourself and you'll be with them happily ever after!

Fuck you, David Cage.

Among other things.
 
But why don't people here on SV like the works of David Cage?
Well, David Cage's work is heavily reliant on the writing, performance, visuals and direction to carry the story. The performances are usually fine. In fact, Ellen Page did a great job with the material she had in Beyond: Two Souls.

The visuals are frequently impressive. The technology that Quantic Dream has at their fingertips is legitimately amazing. Now, you don't need superb tech to carry this kind of game; Life is Strange got by with a stunning art style that was able to convey the emotional weight and impact that the events had on the characters.

The problem is in the writing and the direction. Because that's where David Cage comes in.

And David Cage cannot write women. When David Cage does have women, they're always, always, always involved in creepy rape scenarios. David Cage seems to think that apartments are enormous, and that having a normal-sized apartment means that you let your stupid kid die after you said JAY-SON too much. David Cage thinks that shower scenes are completely and totally necessary, which, granted, is a trope from french cinema and he fancies himself an auteur (when really, he's a fucking hack). David Cage thinks that game overs are a failure of the game designer. David Cage's action scenes are the funniest thing in the world, when he's trying to make for really tense drama. David Cage lies to the player, not because it's interesting, but because muh twist. David Cage thought that Beyond: Two Souls would be much better with a Chinese Underwater Ghost Base. David Cage almost included a PSYCHIC FUCKING LINK in Heavy Rain. Indigo Prophecy turns into a retarded Matrix, and somehow Lucas HAS MAGIC KUNG FU POWERS. And also terrible sex scenes.

David Cage has creative control over the script and the direction, and he is a goddamn hack.

The most frustrating part is that there are moments that connect. The scene where Jodie almost kills herself? Strong. The sequences of homelessness in Beyond: Two Souls? Excellent, save for the creepy near-rape scene. Heavy Rain's first half is incredibly promising. The opening sequence in Indigo Prophecy is legitimately tense and terrifying. The "Kara" demo that Detroit is based off of is legitimately excellent!

This makes it incredibly frustrating when the script inevitably shits itself and dies. I mean, maybe it's just because I like to write, and writing a lot means I start picking up on writing foibles and issues, but like holy shit. If he got a fucking editor that knew when to tell him "No, fuck you, we're not doing this", we'd have something amazing.

But given the interview up above, that clearly didn't happen.
 
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So...it just ocurred to me, could David Cage be considered the Perfect Lionheart of Videogames ? . Based on what moderah said and what i've read about him in that stepping on thread he and Cage share a lot of personality traits
 
So...it just ocurred to me, could David Cage be considered the Perfect Lionheart of Videogames ? . Based on what moderah said and what i've read about him in that stepping on thread he and Cage share a lot of personality traits
Nah, PL's women barely count as human beings, and more as one dimensional objects who only revolve around their love interests.
 
...I know my sanity is going to regret me asking, but wut?

I'm not shitting you.

There is a Secret Chinese Underwater Ghost Base in Beyond: Two Souls. This is the same game that tries to go with a Carrie-esque sequence in the beginning. It's the most disjointed, nonsensical bullshit in the world and it makes the already-stupid military sections of that game even stupider.

David Cage's work takes a decent crack at the "interactive movie" concept- which is something not many people have done, apart from the 1990's glut of variable-quality FMV games. It might not seem very good to somebody who picks apart stories for a hobby, but it appeals to people who want to immerse themselves in and control a Hollywood-style story.

I think the Mass Effect franchise bears a comparison here- a story that imitates huge slabs of Babylon 5 and the Galactica reboot becomes a success because people can interact so deeply with the story and characters.
Mass Effect, for all its faults, also just has better writing and characterization. I can define a lot of traits of, say, Tali. She's quirky. She's intelligent, deeply caring about her culture and people, as well as their traditions. She has strong family bonds and would never believe that her father could possibly do the unthinkable. She wants to save the galaxy, but really, she wants the Quarians to go back home. We have motivation, we have development, we have an arc and a conclusion to said arc, be it uplifting or tragic depending on what you do in ME3.

Madison Paige is...a journalist, I guess. Her character trait is being a vagina for Ethan Mars to fuck. No, it's not having a vagina, it's being a vagina.

Also, we do have much, much better examples of games with David Cage's shtick.

Every single Telltale game post-Walking Dead. Very limited in terms of branching, sure, but the dialogue and writing is, if not great, at least believable.

Until Dawn, which has actual writers and characters. Like, it's a slasher film with slight interactivity, but the premise immediately means that characters can die. This builds tension. This makes for an exciting story, where the player, despite limited changes, can influence the story.

Life is Strange also has actual writers and incredibly strong foreshadowing and construction. Sure there are some hella bad dialogue fumbles, yo, but the characters and situations are still believable.

So now Cage doesn't even have anything unique to his name. Well, he has uniquely bad writing. So that's something, I guess.

Also deconstructing David Cage is fun.
 
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Exactly what it sounds like. An underwater chinese base studying ghosts.

I'm not shitting you.

There is a Secret Chinese Underwater Ghost Base in Beyond: Two Souls. This is the same game that tries to go with a Carrie-esque sequence in the beginning. It's the most disjointed, nonsensical bullshit in the world and it makes the already-stupid military sections of that game even stupider.

Oh, that's not as bad as I thought.

After reading a summary of Indigo Prophecy, I was assuming the base itself was a ghost.
 
Life is Strange also has actual writers and incredibly strong foreshadowing and construction. Sure there are some hella bad dialogue fumbles, yo, but the characters and situations are still believable.
Honestly, LiS dialogue is actually strangely charming and I can actually see RL people saying stuff like that, I'd point at them and call them weirdos but I could see people talking like that. If people started talking like a David Cage game I'd assume some sort of Terminator shit was going down.
 



Because.

To be honest, I think the whole interactive choose your own adventure movie game thing is a cool concept, and until Telltale came along Cage was the only guy doing it. I kinda appreciate that.

Besides, the games are only shiftily written by film standards, certainly not by video game standards.

Dunno, I'm not particularly impressed with the way Telltales are doing it either (primary example being two playthroughs of Tales of the Borderlands, plus some weaker knowledge of other games). After playing through Choice of Robots by Choice of Games, most branching-storyline interactive-choice-based games look similarly mediocre to me (story-wise, that is). Sure, they all have better graphics, but having good graphics does not a well-written story make.

Also:
What are the 'Lying to the player' examples for all the previous games in the line?
 
Also:
What are the 'Lying to the player' examples for all the previous games in the line?
In Heavy Rain,
One of the three player characters is the killer. However, this is a game with a mechanic in which you can listen to your character's thoughts on what's happening, and throughout the entire chunk of the game before the twist, they never think about the fact that about the kid they've got trapped under a grate, or the fact that they're planning on destroying the evidence they're collecting, and at one point wondering who the killer could be of the person who they just killed.
 
What are the 'Lying to the player' examples for all the previous games in the line?

one I can think of offhand is in Heavy Rain. The twist is that one of the playable characters (supposedly a private eye going after the killer) is the killer and the way they show this is give you flashbacks showing him do things to destroy evidence at the places you visit as him.

Problem is some of it is shit you should have seen yourself soing at the time. Like, one of them was him bashing another witness in the head with the phone, even though when you play the original scene he was clearly no where near the victim when it happened. Its not like theres a cut and it happens through the interim, you control him through the entire sequence so him killing him is literally impossible.
 
So i was wondering, if anyone asked about who david cage is, would directing them to this video be a good place to start.? I feel this video summarizes perfectly the myriad problems David's games have but i want to hear your opinions:
 
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