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The poll is closing, and I'm going to start combing posts to try and answer the most pressing questions. Thanks for voting, it really helps.
Cryptekial (Worm/WH40K)
- Thread starter Noxturne90
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It seems, going through the posts, that the biggest complaint is with Piggot's antagonistic attitude and her seizure of the tech. There is a bit on the side with Armsmaster not fighting her on it, and her telling him to sell Loom on the Wards.
The biggest reason for Piggot's attitude is that in her own mind, she's already doing damage control. There is the fear that she already has no control over the situation, and that somewhere in the city, someone knows about the device and Loom who shouldn't know. She's angry that she didn't know any of this from the start, and is only learning this now, after there has already been a good chance for the information to leak. As someone pointed out, Piggot doesn't believe that the PRT is an invincible bastion of security. Piggot is someone who seeks control, that fights by taking tempo and momentum from her enemies to force them to react to her instead of the other way around. And right now, that isn't the case. Piggot is the one reacting, and it's leaving her in a less they happy mood.
This is also in part in how she acts towards Armsmaster. Armsmaster should have, at least she feels, told her the the situation the instant that he realized what he was dealing with. But he didn't. Instead, Armsmaster wasted hours with the machine, performing tests, examining it and more. Then more time as he self-debated and discussed with with Miss Milita. To his credit, he put the Rig on Information Lockdown, but to Piggot it was like the old saying of closing the barn doors after the animals have left. All this happened the previous day, and only now is she learning this. Piggot is being forced into acting a day behind anyone else else who might have this knowledge. That's a massive disadvantage. The kind of disadvantage that could spell a very tough time for the future.
Is Piggot acting pissed?
Yes.
Why?
Because she is. And she is subtly blaming Armsmaster for it. And in turn, Armsmaster knows this. He isn't fighting Piggot because nothing he can say will do anything but dig the hole deeper for him. He's realized alot of the same things that Piggot has, that while yes, the machine has the potential to turn Brockton Bay into a post-scarcity society, it first has the potential to turn it into a warzone and one of the biggest targets on the map. Piggot doesn't immediately care about the good the machine does. Piggot's primary concern right now, this instant, is making sure that Brockton Bay is still a city on the map, and not a smear.
Selling Loom on the Wards is part of that. No matter how powerful most Villains will stop and think for a second more then it takes for them to decide to go after an unaligned Tinker then a Ward one. Yes, the most powerful will still go after it, but to Piggot that extra moment where they hesitate because they would have to go through the Protectorate and PRT is priceless right now. And there is always the option that afterwords, she can smear the headlines with "Villains Kidnap Ward!" and turn the public into a living weapon she can wield. No one would care about "Villains Kidnap Independent Tinker!" beyond just another thing that happens. But a Ward? A Child superhero under the guidance and protection of the government? That raises a MASSIVE stink. Yes, there will be backlash because a Ward is kidnapped at all. But it's outweighed by the figurative Sword of the People that the PRT can bring to bear because of it.
Now. Seizing the Tech.
Yes, the Rig is more secure. But if every single Villain in town goes after it, it's not going to really matter. Piggot is on the mindset of "If someone knows, they know it's at the Rig." so she's changing locations so it isn't at the location most likely to be attacked. Yes, there is the risk that someone could figure out they are moving it, but that's an innate risk of moving something valuable. Piggot wants to change the location to somewhere that is less likely to get swarmed bu Villains. She really doesn't care about Loom in this case. Just preventing a massive free-for-all Brawl from happening. If Armsmaster hadn't impressed the value of the device on her, she would have just ordered the thing smashed and destroyed to take it out of the picture entirely.
But she hasn't, because she's taking into account that someone might have gotten to Loom already. If that's the case, having an intact and working version of the machine is more valuable then just destroying it to remove it as something that provokes an attack for it. Having it to study, to understand and examine is the point. If Loom comes to claim it? Then good. At least half her fears are put to rest, because they can screen her for M/S and a dozen other things, and ensure that she hasn't been gotten to by the Gangs or someone else yet. Armsmaster can come in, and they can question her to see if someone has already figured out her identity and is putting pressure on her or her family to do as they say.
I think that covers everything. Apparently, these are things I mostly failed to convey at all, because I didn't want to turn the chapter into a slog of dialogue. I'm going to spend some time making a few changes, and then we'll see. This whole debacle has quite frankly drained me of alot of enthusiasm for this, so I have no clear idea when I'll get to writing the next chapter. Maybe I'll up some some for tonight, maybe next week. I honestly don't know.
The biggest reason for Piggot's attitude is that in her own mind, she's already doing damage control. There is the fear that she already has no control over the situation, and that somewhere in the city, someone knows about the device and Loom who shouldn't know. She's angry that she didn't know any of this from the start, and is only learning this now, after there has already been a good chance for the information to leak. As someone pointed out, Piggot doesn't believe that the PRT is an invincible bastion of security. Piggot is someone who seeks control, that fights by taking tempo and momentum from her enemies to force them to react to her instead of the other way around. And right now, that isn't the case. Piggot is the one reacting, and it's leaving her in a less they happy mood.
This is also in part in how she acts towards Armsmaster. Armsmaster should have, at least she feels, told her the the situation the instant that he realized what he was dealing with. But he didn't. Instead, Armsmaster wasted hours with the machine, performing tests, examining it and more. Then more time as he self-debated and discussed with with Miss Milita. To his credit, he put the Rig on Information Lockdown, but to Piggot it was like the old saying of closing the barn doors after the animals have left. All this happened the previous day, and only now is she learning this. Piggot is being forced into acting a day behind anyone else else who might have this knowledge. That's a massive disadvantage. The kind of disadvantage that could spell a very tough time for the future.
Is Piggot acting pissed?
Yes.
Why?
Because she is. And she is subtly blaming Armsmaster for it. And in turn, Armsmaster knows this. He isn't fighting Piggot because nothing he can say will do anything but dig the hole deeper for him. He's realized alot of the same things that Piggot has, that while yes, the machine has the potential to turn Brockton Bay into a post-scarcity society, it first has the potential to turn it into a warzone and one of the biggest targets on the map. Piggot doesn't immediately care about the good the machine does. Piggot's primary concern right now, this instant, is making sure that Brockton Bay is still a city on the map, and not a smear.
Selling Loom on the Wards is part of that. No matter how powerful most Villains will stop and think for a second more then it takes for them to decide to go after an unaligned Tinker then a Ward one. Yes, the most powerful will still go after it, but to Piggot that extra moment where they hesitate because they would have to go through the Protectorate and PRT is priceless right now. And there is always the option that afterwords, she can smear the headlines with "Villains Kidnap Ward!" and turn the public into a living weapon she can wield. No one would care about "Villains Kidnap Independent Tinker!" beyond just another thing that happens. But a Ward? A Child superhero under the guidance and protection of the government? That raises a MASSIVE stink. Yes, there will be backlash because a Ward is kidnapped at all. But it's outweighed by the figurative Sword of the People that the PRT can bring to bear because of it.
Now. Seizing the Tech.
Yes, the Rig is more secure. But if every single Villain in town goes after it, it's not going to really matter. Piggot is on the mindset of "If someone knows, they know it's at the Rig." so she's changing locations so it isn't at the location most likely to be attacked. Yes, there is the risk that someone could figure out they are moving it, but that's an innate risk of moving something valuable. Piggot wants to change the location to somewhere that is less likely to get swarmed bu Villains. She really doesn't care about Loom in this case. Just preventing a massive free-for-all Brawl from happening. If Armsmaster hadn't impressed the value of the device on her, she would have just ordered the thing smashed and destroyed to take it out of the picture entirely.
But she hasn't, because she's taking into account that someone might have gotten to Loom already. If that's the case, having an intact and working version of the machine is more valuable then just destroying it to remove it as something that provokes an attack for it. Having it to study, to understand and examine is the point. If Loom comes to claim it? Then good. At least half her fears are put to rest, because they can screen her for M/S and a dozen other things, and ensure that she hasn't been gotten to by the Gangs or someone else yet. Armsmaster can come in, and they can question her to see if someone has already figured out her identity and is putting pressure on her or her family to do as they say.
I think that covers everything. Apparently, these are things I mostly failed to convey at all, because I didn't want to turn the chapter into a slog of dialogue. I'm going to spend some time making a few changes, and then we'll see. This whole debacle has quite frankly drained me of alot of enthusiasm for this, so I have no clear idea when I'll get to writing the next chapter. Maybe I'll up some some for tonight, maybe next week. I honestly don't know.
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That's on you dude, it's best not to force it.
Jackercracks
In a British accent
- Location
- England
Huh, I had no idea this was getting backlash at all. Characterisation seemed better than most people who bring in Piggot, in the way that the heroes were at least trying to be honourable about it and Piggot wasn't being an utter bitch.
LD1449
To the last; Kill them all
- Location
- The other side of the labyrinth.
That happens. Whenever you write on SB or SV alot of the most innocuous issues will sometimes get blown completely out of proportion and the debates sap your energy for it.
Kinda comes with the territory. Most people either shrug and ignore it or tell people to piss off. Both options are valid as long as done in moderation.
Me, I'll only argue to a point if I think its worth it. If it isn't, I go for the previous option.
- Location
- USA
I thought Piggot's reaction was fine. This type of tech would be wanted by every gang in the city and if word gets out about it, its defiantly something that would interest Manikin.
chocolote12
A Penguin Flailing Against The Keyboard Of Life.
It's silly because they could just ask the super Tinker to include password protection on her devices.
I mean, if they were really concerned about people manipulating her they could try getting her and her family into something like the witness protection program, but the actions taken so far could all have been done better if they had just decided to be amiable and polite about it.
I mean, if they were really concerned about people manipulating her they could try getting her and her family into something like the witness protection program, but the actions taken so far could all have been done better if they had just decided to be amiable and polite about it.
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The problem is that some people want Taylor to blow up angrily over this, and to have bad relations with the PRT after.
And some people don't want that to happen and "enjoy the fun times psudeo father/daughter tinker thing Colin and Taylor have going on."
vyor
KITTY! \o/
But he did. Like, it hasn't even been a full day at that point.
earthboy
(verified ape)
- Location
- NYC
- Pronouns
- He/Him
My suggestion is: don't explain in the future. Listen to what people say, but don't feel the need to change the story -- nor explain the story -- unless listening to people makes it clear that you didn't communicate something which you had been trying to communicate.
In this case, much of the brouhaha was about Piggot's potential future actions -- whether she would return the tech or not, which is a situation that has not yet happened, since Taylor does not expect the tech to be returned for a while.
You are no required to explain nor justify the future actions of any character.
- Location
- Internet
Primarily, it's just frustration at myself and not other people that has me drained. I found it alright, and my betas approved. So the fact that it didn't quite fly as well because I didn't anticipate other peoples negative reaction to Piggot has me a bit down.
- Location
- Crackship Space!
Certain characters have a negative connotation no matter how you write them. People will bitch at you no matter what you do with them.
Piggot is one of those characters.
Selonianth
Writer of Words
The point is she has no ground to stand on. Playing hardball doesn't work when you don't have anything your opposition actually needs.
Sure, she can take the fabricator. Destroy it even if she wants to be so paranoid. All she'd be doing is alienating Loom. Loom doesn't need the fabricator they have. She *can* make another one. She can even do it with parts you can't track even if you know to look for them.
The problem is that if it has those global ramifications, what is Piggot doing making any decision herself at all? If the ramifications are that potentially disastrous this isn't her call at all. Much less when your leverage is in fact... absent.
- Pronouns
- It/They
don't be.
piggots kinda of a bitch in canon.
her being a bitch here is perfectly believable.
LD1449
To the last; Kill them all
- Location
- The other side of the labyrinth.
...You're an author. Not god. You can try to take in every factor but any author that says he is able to successfully please everyone/predict everything is either
A) Lying
B) Delusional
C) An idiot
D) Tagg (All of the above)
You're not the first person to mis-interpret what the audience will believe/take from a work and you won't be the last and this won't be the last time it happens either.
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- Internet
Either way, I've made some small changes to the chapter that should hopefully ease the worst of it without changing the content drastically.
- Location
- Australia
I just want to see more really.
- Location
- United States
I think part of the problem is that Piggot being handed the idiot ball is a recurring plot point in Worm fics, and not one that is entirely justified by canon. I mean, I can't even count the number of fics I've read where the woman acts like an irrational, antagonistic presence, for no particular reason. She's frequently mis-characterized. So it's something I'm particularly sensitive to when I'm reading a story, because it usually acts as an indicator for how the story will go. How people will act. Etc.
Now in this case, I think Piggot has the right motivations, as you explained above. I think those motivations did not entirely come through in the dialogue. And I think that small problem is HUGELY magnified because of what I mentioned above. Rightfully or wrongly, it reads like she's very close to acting as she does in many other stories.
It's not a big issue. It can be fixed by modifying the dialogue slightly. You essentially just stepped on a landmine, and the fervor around it will subside once its clear you are not going down the route of having her act stupidly. So I hope this doesn't dissuade you from pushing on with this... it's a really fun story thus far.
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Little Rilley would probably enjoy it too. I mean, biological metal?"Little Jimmy" however would love it, and consider it the awesomest thing ever! And then bug his parents to the point they sigh, give up, then give in and buy it for him.
As for the Piggot controversy, in the end, you do what you want as a author. But i think it's natural to have a bit of a backlash to stories that forcefully seek conflict and get the first hammer possible to do it. Even if the technology is dangerous, which it undoubtedly is, Piggot seems like a canny negotiator and would know that to keep the egg and kill the goose would be a bad idea. The situation is vastly different from a ex-villain cape with negligible - on her mind - bug master powers.
Therefore she'll punt it up ASAP and kiss ass of the tinker 10 lady. If you then make her come across as a hardass without even having any cards on the deal, let's say it seems a bit of a engineered conflict. Especially considering the alternatives like punting it upwards or the guild, or even just protect her and family with the wards (who do nothing much anyway).
As a constructive suggestion i think Piggot warning her away from taking the device from Armsmaster lab, because of danger of robbery and convincing her to live on the tower temporally, because of danger of kidnapping sounds in character, but certainly not 'seizing it' or 'forcing' her to stay. Not to say that she wouldn't stalk Taylor like a pro after this if she doesn't accept. Losing a tinker 10 to mannequin or some nazi fuckups would be just embarrassing, and something i and many others would gladly say 'fuck the unwritten rules' (you can create conflict with this when it inevitably leaks).
Also, hello endbringers.
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Hmm basically you created a situation where if the first response of Cauldron being a aware of it is not:
'let us make you a offer you can't refuse' (or making the Guild do it for them)
people are going to think it unrealistic and it actually happening will move your story out of BB so fast it will emit ultraviolet radiation. I mean, i guess you can try to keep it low level and with a bit of warlordism by making everyone involved be kinda dim (Taylor and Cauldron particularly)... but it won't feel very real.
'let us make you a offer you can't refuse' (or making the Guild do it for them)
people are going to think it unrealistic and it actually happening will move your story out of BB so fast it will emit ultraviolet radiation. I mean, i guess you can try to keep it low level and with a bit of warlordism by making everyone involved be kinda dim (Taylor and Cauldron particularly)... but it won't feel very real.
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vyor
KITTY! \o/
Where were these changes if I may ask(hate rereading a chapter so soon)?
consequences
Not A Nice Person At All
- Location
- Jerkville
With revisions, Piggot comes off as hardass but not jackass. Two Flayed Thunbs Up!
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- Internet
In the Piggot section, primarily.