i'll handle it.
edit: frist impression: holy crap where the joint units bad. both sides of austria hungery gave them the shaft in favor of their own branches. they were given shit training and shit gear.
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Clankers and Beasties (A leviathan Quest)
- Thread starter frostgiant
- Start date
edit: frist impression: holy crap where the joint units bad. both sides of austria hungery gave them the shaft in favor of their own branches. they were given shit training and shit gear.
- Location
- Southern Virginia
To invade Hungary, the Serbians must cross the Danube river. Historically the river was dominated by the river-gunboats of the Imperial and Royal Navy, which do not seem to be accounted for as such here. (The entire Austro-Hungarian Navy, which was substantial enough to be a factor in war, is pretty much missing.) There are presumably amphibious beasties that can cross the river to secure a beachhead but the overwhelming majority of Serbian forces would still need to cross the old fashioned way, over bridges or on boats. Digging in along the banks and providing heavy fire support from Clankers to kill said amphibious beasties as they emerge is likely to stymie any Serbian attack there.
It is, incidentally, possible to shell Belgrade from the Austro-Hungarian territory on the other side of the Danube.
Bosnia is a little more exposed, since the Drina River is far less of an obstacle than the Danube is, but the terrain immediately past it is rolling hills and elevated terrain. There's some defensive advantages to be seized there, and again a superiority in artillery would do well in denying a breakthrough. The Austrians historically utilized brigades of elite mountain infantry in the sector at the start of the war, before they were diverted to the Italian Front.
Chimeraguard
We do deserve to exist.
Right, in that case, we might want to take the initiative from them. Assault is looking like a better option now if they're best on the offence.
Fallenworldful
Stan by me
Going offensive probably is a bad idea right now, our army lacks rapid transport capability and absolutely needs imported material to function in enemy territory while the serbian troops can live off of their own land and feed their beasties without need for long supply chains.
Chimeraguard
We do deserve to exist.
Never understood how that worked. Shouldn't Beasties be even harder to maintain than normal machines, considering the waste and food needed and everything?
Also, it's said the Serbian army is actually better when on the offensive, so we might want to take that initiative
Will either army have problems getting across the river, and if so, how much?
i always thought the beasties were designed to have a low upkeep cost. bascily tune their metabolisms to require as little as possible outside of battle.
navy overview and description
so i have finally decided to add the navy to this game( i forgot to in the beginning)
navy:
40 ironclads.
ironclads are steam-powered ships covered in heavy metal plating, they are equipped wit two kracken fighting arms and two turrets that fire 24 cm shells. they are the main stay of clanker fleets.
10 typhoon battleships
the typhoon battleships have heavy fire power, ignoring Kraken fighting arms and relying on other ships for protection against krackens focusing on heavy fire power to kill the massive beastie and pound fortifications equipped with the same caliber of guns as the Beowulf it has 4 33 cm turrets.
10
The monarch battleship is a heavily armored and armed ship meant to take control of the seas for the country who designed it, unfortunately the ship is rather slow because of the amount of armor and guns that the ship uses. It is also equipped with 4 kracken fighting arms. It has 2 33 cm turrets and 2 22cm turrets with two barrels each. 350 RE
navy:
40 ironclads.
ironclads are steam-powered ships covered in heavy metal plating, they are equipped wit two kracken fighting arms and two turrets that fire 24 cm shells. they are the main stay of clanker fleets.
10 typhoon battleships
the typhoon battleships have heavy fire power, ignoring Kraken fighting arms and relying on other ships for protection against krackens focusing on heavy fire power to kill the massive beastie and pound fortifications equipped with the same caliber of guns as the Beowulf it has 4 33 cm turrets.
10
The monarch battleship is a heavily armored and armed ship meant to take control of the seas for the country who designed it, unfortunately the ship is rather slow because of the amount of armor and guns that the ship uses. It is also equipped with 4 kracken fighting arms. It has 2 33 cm turrets and 2 22cm turrets with two barrels each. 350 RE
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give me a few hours.
also did chimera's plan win? if so ill start right now.
Chimeraguard
We do deserve to exist.
Ah, I haven't specified how many units go into the defensive plan, and I'm currently supporting the offensive plan if the Serbian army really is good at offence.
okay i'll lock the votes in 2 hours while i go and get some stuff sorted out.
Chimeraguard
We do deserve to exist.
How hard would it be for either of us to attack and cross the river?
not very much for you as your land dreadnoughts can act as bridges for the rest of the army . it will take time though.
Chimeraguard
We do deserve to exist.
How long about? I'd like to see how feasible my offence plan is.
12 to 24 hours
- Location
- Southern Virginia
Also if Russian units are arriving in Serbia by sea it might very well be useful to interdict the only available port they could debark in, Bar in Montengro. A blockade would be pretty viable from the IRL naval balance, since a French fleet trying to enter the Adriatic would risk submarines, mines, and torpedo-boats operating from the Austrian seaboard and the Russians are blocked in the Black Sea by the need to transit the Dardenelles. This may not hold given the use of Krakens, so it might be best to instead make a sudden descent on the port in force and use the battleships to shell the port facilities and render them useless instead. While the Russians may very well have beasties that can simply swim ashore, the heavier ones certainly couldn't due to the very different physical demands of swimming and being a huge land-based colossus.
In the long run developing a class of ship optimized for fighting Krakens to screen the main battle fleet should be considered. These "Kraken Destroyers" should make use of timed explosives to propagate concussive force through the compressed medium of seawater to scramble the more delicate nervous tissue of large sea-going creatures. Or just blow them to bits like dynamite-fishing in a river. They'd need to be small and fast, and while beasties are agile they have the disadvantage that they must close in to physically attack whereas mechanical units can deploy significant firepower at-range. A electrically triggered catapult for depth charges mounted on something that IRL would be a motor torpedo boat would be ideal for the Adriatic; and the design can be shared with the Germans for deployment elsewhere. The Ottomans could also use such charges to interdict any Russian submerged beasties trying to transit the Dardenelles, since the confined waters would be a natural killing ground.
Another simple and straightforward project would be to start mounting a light 7.5cm howitzer (the mountain howitzers are probably ideal) on a carriage allowing it to fire shrapnel shells upward so as to enhance anti-air defenses for the infantry divisions. Designing artillery carriages is surprisingly difficult work, but having a large shotgun to blast away swarming enemy flying beasties would probably be very welcome indeed.
In the long run developing a class of ship optimized for fighting Krakens to screen the main battle fleet should be considered. These "Kraken Destroyers" should make use of timed explosives to propagate concussive force through the compressed medium of seawater to scramble the more delicate nervous tissue of large sea-going creatures. Or just blow them to bits like dynamite-fishing in a river. They'd need to be small and fast, and while beasties are agile they have the disadvantage that they must close in to physically attack whereas mechanical units can deploy significant firepower at-range. A electrically triggered catapult for depth charges mounted on something that IRL would be a motor torpedo boat would be ideal for the Adriatic; and the design can be shared with the Germans for deployment elsewhere. The Ottomans could also use such charges to interdict any Russian submerged beasties trying to transit the Dardenelles, since the confined waters would be a natural killing ground.
Another simple and straightforward project would be to start mounting a light 7.5cm howitzer (the mountain howitzers are probably ideal) on a carriage allowing it to fire shrapnel shells upward so as to enhance anti-air defenses for the infantry divisions. Designing artillery carriages is surprisingly difficult work, but having a large shotgun to blast away swarming enemy flying beasties would probably be very welcome indeed.
MacroDaemon
Lachrymose Lapis
Hmm, one thing I think needs to be added to this quest. Population as a resource. We are not like the Neuroi in another quest who can pump out units in endless quantities. We can only have as many troops as we have men eligible for military service. We can't spam a few hundred infantry divisions every turn and end up with an army bigger than the population of the Austro-Hungarian Empire, for instance. Also, the less civilians we have, the worse our production should be as we'd have less people to man the factories and farms.
War with actual people is a whole lot more complex than "build this many units and send them there". It's a balance between the domestic and the military as well as a whole mass of other issues, like moral plummeting across the country as men get their faces raped by inhuman monsters or getting drafted to fight for a collapsing empire.
Like, right now we have 750 000 men in infantry alone. That is a shit load of people not working the fields and about to be sent to die for a country they have little faith in. Sure, we should have a population around 50 000 000, but imagine that only about half are men and only about half of that again would be of service age and capability. People are a finite resource during times of total war. As is their willingness to fight(and die) for their country.
War with actual people is a whole lot more complex than "build this many units and send them there". It's a balance between the domestic and the military as well as a whole mass of other issues, like moral plummeting across the country as men get their faces raped by inhuman monsters or getting drafted to fight for a collapsing empire.
Like, right now we have 750 000 men in infantry alone. That is a shit load of people not working the fields and about to be sent to die for a country they have little faith in. Sure, we should have a population around 50 000 000, but imagine that only about half are men and only about half of that again would be of service age and capability. People are a finite resource during times of total war. As is their willingness to fight(and die) for their country.
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Chimeraguard
We do deserve to exist.
Ok, final plan. Not accounting for new naval numbers on the front page.
Feel free to critique, but seeing that Serbia is good on the offence, and it'll take a day at max to deploy our forces across the river, I think we should attack.
General Actions:
[X] Mobilize our forces and deploy them to the Serbian border. As the Serbians are still mobilizing, we may be able to inflict significant damage before they can dig in and reform. Known Serbian positions, bases, and industrial and production facilities are to be overrun as quickly as possible. Make sure we have our best commanders on this task. 50 RE shall be dedicated to ensuring our troops have proper supply lines and required equipment.
Forces Dedicated:
15 Infantry Divisions
8 Scout Mech Divisions
7 Cyclops Stormrunner Divisions
8 Ladegerät heavy assault mech Divisions
1 Land Dreadnought Group
1 Stormbringer Artillery Division
25 Ironclads
6 Typhoon Battleships
5 Monarch Battleships
-The primary objective is to overrun Serbian positions and bases before they can organize, giving us space and time to dig in. If possible, establish our fortified lines along chokepoints so that we can defend more efficiently with less men.
-Some of our river-capable warships will deploy to assist our forces in the river crossings with their heavy guns.
-At the same time, our Naval force will launch an assault/blockade on the Serbian ports that are receiving Russian reinforcements. They will use their heavy artillery to inflict as much damage as they can upon the enemy forces.
[X] Continue to upgrade and expand our infrastructure. 50 RE shall be dedicated to this.
[X] Another group of spies will be sent to Serbia. Find out the Serbian force composition, and try to discover what the Russians have sent to help them. Whatever information they can get on the Serbians will no doubt be of great help during the invasion. 50 RE
Production Actions:
[X] 2 Stormbringer Artillery Divisions 300 RE
Research Actions:
[X] As we all know, Darwinist beasties are alive, which means they are sadly vulnerable to being burnt to death, and are likely terrified of such a fate. Incendiary weapons may be the key to holding off the Serbian regenerating beasties. While we eventually want rounds for all types of weapons, for now we will be satisfied with working flamethrowers, petrol bombs, and Incendiary shells that can be mass-produced and sent to the front quickly. 100 RE
[X] Continue Gyrothopter Research 50 RE
Feel free to critique, but seeing that Serbia is good on the offence, and it'll take a day at max to deploy our forces across the river, I think we should attack.
General Actions:
[X] Mobilize our forces and deploy them to the Serbian border. As the Serbians are still mobilizing, we may be able to inflict significant damage before they can dig in and reform. Known Serbian positions, bases, and industrial and production facilities are to be overrun as quickly as possible. Make sure we have our best commanders on this task. 50 RE shall be dedicated to ensuring our troops have proper supply lines and required equipment.
Forces Dedicated:
15 Infantry Divisions
8 Scout Mech Divisions
7 Cyclops Stormrunner Divisions
8 Ladegerät heavy assault mech Divisions
1 Land Dreadnought Group
1 Stormbringer Artillery Division
25 Ironclads
6 Typhoon Battleships
5 Monarch Battleships
-The primary objective is to overrun Serbian positions and bases before they can organize, giving us space and time to dig in. If possible, establish our fortified lines along chokepoints so that we can defend more efficiently with less men.
-Some of our river-capable warships will deploy to assist our forces in the river crossings with their heavy guns.
-At the same time, our Naval force will launch an assault/blockade on the Serbian ports that are receiving Russian reinforcements. They will use their heavy artillery to inflict as much damage as they can upon the enemy forces.
[X] Continue to upgrade and expand our infrastructure. 50 RE shall be dedicated to this.
[X] Another group of spies will be sent to Serbia. Find out the Serbian force composition, and try to discover what the Russians have sent to help them. Whatever information they can get on the Serbians will no doubt be of great help during the invasion. 50 RE
Production Actions:
[X] 2 Stormbringer Artillery Divisions 300 RE
Research Actions:
[X] As we all know, Darwinist beasties are alive, which means they are sadly vulnerable to being burnt to death, and are likely terrified of such a fate. Incendiary weapons may be the key to holding off the Serbian regenerating beasties. While we eventually want rounds for all types of weapons, for now we will be satisfied with working flamethrowers, petrol bombs, and Incendiary shells that can be mass-produced and sent to the front quickly. 100 RE
[X] Continue Gyrothopter Research 50 RE
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i'm just not the best person with numbers, so i didn't put a population resource in. because that would be a lot of numbers to keep track of.
if necessary ill put in mention if you have to many men in the army and your economy suffers as a result.
also if you look at the map on the first page and compare it to a map of what some kingdoms were before ww1 you will see that the nation in this world are much larger and control a larger area than their real world equivalent.
MacroDaemon
Lachrymose Lapis
At a quick glance, it doesn't really seem like the Austro-Hungarian Empire is any different in size. And if it is, the changes would be so minor that at most it would add a million or so people. Not much in the grand scheme of things.
You don't really need to keep too much track of the numbers, just make sure we don't go into absurd army sizes on either side. A countries army can't be the size of its entire population. Hell, it can't be the size of even 1/4th of its population. It has to be much smaller than that, otherwise the country falls apart. At most, 10 million men for a country the size of Austro-Hungary and if we ever reach that big of an army, our country will be breaking down domestically.
Also, in case anybody wants to know. Some quick maths and estimates of clanker crews compared to equivalent tanks and heavy weapons as well as battleship and ironclad complements tell me that Chimeraguard's plan involves attacking with just shy of 400 000 men.
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[X] Chimera Plan
- Location
- Southern Virginia
Austria-Hungary has a population larger than France (at around 54 million), and historically mobilized somewhat over 50 divisions at the outbreak of the war. This was a much smaller portion of its total population than any other power in the war, especially after Russia (unwisely) tried to draft as many soldiers as possible in response to the defeats in East Prussia in 1914. The predicted collapse of Austria-Hungary on mobilization not only failed to materialize, but civilian morale was by most accounts enthusiastic. Not only did Bosnia not revolt, but the Croats and Bosnian Muslims rallied against the Serbs; and the South Slavic contingent of the Empire was extremely notable in its role defending against Italy later on. The Hungarians and Germans of course were also reliable almost until the very end when defeat was not just inevitable but immanent, and for the most part the Italians, Romanians, Slovaks, and Ukranians in the Empire were reliable enough. The biggest problems were among the Czechs, due to the collapse of a pair of Czech brigades in suspicious circumstances and above-average rates of desertion and the commitment of the Czech political establishment to a pro-Russian line that led to their large-scale imprisonment soon after the start of the war. Well and the Orthodox Ruthenians being even more pro-Russian but they were a small enough group.
In any case Austria-Hungary held together surprisingly well through 1917, when several fatal circumstances began to catch up to it. Wilson's 14 Points seemed to commit the Entente to breaking apart the Empire as a precondition of peace; the strategic balance was decisively swung against the Central Powers despite victory over Russia by the entry of the US into the war; and the Entente blockade was biting into the availability of food supplies. By late 1918 the divisions on the Italian front were literally starving in their trenches, the Americans were beginning to arrive in force to France, Ludendorff's decisive offensive had failed, Bulgaria and the Ottomans were all but out of the war, and the political leadership in the non-German provinces were looking to protect their own interests post-war by turning against the Empire. Even after the literal desertion of Hungarian units from the Italian front at the instigation of the Hungarian Diet, and the Italians rather treacherously misinforming the Austrian command about the time the Armistice of Villafranca was supposed to start so as to take as many prisoners as possible in a surprise attack against no opposition, von Boerevic was still able to put together a coherent army in Tyrol that was demobilized at the end of the war.
Anyway, worried about a defeat spiral? Then don't get started on a spiral of defeat. Victory will reinforce home morale and promote belif in the continued strength of the Empire. Failure (and the blockade, and Germany pissing off America) is the ultimate cause of the Empire's failure.
Speaking of which, is there any point to diplomacy trying to influence neutrals or promote revolt or what-not? The Polish Legion of Pilsudski originated in the Austro-Hungarian Empire and was employed in the invasion of Russian Poland in 1914 to promote a revolt. The Central Powers had pledged early on to re-establish a Polish state and following through in a more decisive manner might be worth a fair bit of goodwill. Also of course getting Bulgaria into the war does very bad things to Serbia's strategic position and would afterward allow a direct connection to the Ottoman Empire so that's something to work on.
In any case Austria-Hungary held together surprisingly well through 1917, when several fatal circumstances began to catch up to it. Wilson's 14 Points seemed to commit the Entente to breaking apart the Empire as a precondition of peace; the strategic balance was decisively swung against the Central Powers despite victory over Russia by the entry of the US into the war; and the Entente blockade was biting into the availability of food supplies. By late 1918 the divisions on the Italian front were literally starving in their trenches, the Americans were beginning to arrive in force to France, Ludendorff's decisive offensive had failed, Bulgaria and the Ottomans were all but out of the war, and the political leadership in the non-German provinces were looking to protect their own interests post-war by turning against the Empire. Even after the literal desertion of Hungarian units from the Italian front at the instigation of the Hungarian Diet, and the Italians rather treacherously misinforming the Austrian command about the time the Armistice of Villafranca was supposed to start so as to take as many prisoners as possible in a surprise attack against no opposition, von Boerevic was still able to put together a coherent army in Tyrol that was demobilized at the end of the war.
Anyway, worried about a defeat spiral? Then don't get started on a spiral of defeat. Victory will reinforce home morale and promote belif in the continued strength of the Empire. Failure (and the blockade, and Germany pissing off America) is the ultimate cause of the Empire's failure.
Speaking of which, is there any point to diplomacy trying to influence neutrals or promote revolt or what-not? The Polish Legion of Pilsudski originated in the Austro-Hungarian Empire and was employed in the invasion of Russian Poland in 1914 to promote a revolt. The Central Powers had pledged early on to re-establish a Polish state and following through in a more decisive manner might be worth a fair bit of goodwill. Also of course getting Bulgaria into the war does very bad things to Serbia's strategic position and would afterward allow a direct connection to the Ottoman Empire so that's something to work on.
Chimeraguard
We do deserve to exist.
Wow. Thanks. That does give me quite a few ideas.
MacroDaemon
Lachrymose Lapis
It would be very interesting if we could get some Darwinist nations to join the Central Powers, but I don't know enough about the book to know if it's possible. Was there a lot of ideological boundary drawing going on due to the two divergent paths?
from what i remember ya there was. the exception was the US who built a middle path.
then Germany fucked up and pissed them off like in RL.