You would, yes.
City Building in Middle-Earth
- Thread starter Sayle
- Start date
-
- Tags
- lotr middle-earth
You would, yes.
- Location
- Central Europe
Another question: Can we still trade if all our mercantile districts are depopulated/empty?
Chaos Blade
Procrastinating Writer
- Location
- Buenos Aires, Argentina
I am a bit doubtful about how the resource collation works, do we use the end of last turn resources? because if so, we only have six stone and ~21 gold? if so that plan is unworkable, we could use a wooden wall, this turn and then do the Taming the next, though. which would mean we should have enough (6+3+2 from imports) on any case I am a bit wary of leaving our treassury bare, our income is very small atm, so recouping losses will take time, and we might need to do something fast-ish
Chaos Blade
Procrastinating Writer
- Location
- Buenos Aires, Argentina
We'd need a clarification for the first, which is why I'd like both the winning vote and any note about things done/not done
Regarding the other, I think it is more about building more docks (note the +1 to shipbuilding) so maybe it is about adding a drydock?. we'd need to man our current docks first, though, so not a big priority
The unfortune that it to happens this way. If say, the death was accidental and unrelated to the kid and the question now is whether or not unadopted kid should receive inheritance right, the situation would have different implication.
Not that my position would be different (blood progeny, step-child, officially adopted = inheritance right/patricide; not blood progeny, not step-child, not officially adopted = no inheritance right/not patricide)
Dark Abstraction
Infrequent Participant
- Location
- United States
[X] Official or not, this is a patricide.
[X] Send three population to settle the Blue Mountains (-16 Gold, +3 Stone, +3 Metal, Farm/Quarry/Mine/Housing):-16 gold, +3 Stone, + 3 Metal, +3 Food
--[X] Empty the mercantile district. -2 Gold/turn
[X] Small Stone Civic District (-5 Gold, -2 Stone, +1 Prestige)
----[X] Establish Houses of Healing (-2 Gold, +2 Prosperity)
--[X] Convert to Stone Housing (-2 Gold, +2 Wood Store, -2 Stone, +1 Prestige)
I like Uju's reasoning behind this vote, it's well thought out and should pay dividends in the future.
[X] Send three population to settle the Blue Mountains (-16 Gold, +3 Stone, +3 Metal, Farm/Quarry/Mine/Housing):-16 gold, +3 Stone, + 3 Metal, +3 Food
--[X] Empty the mercantile district. -2 Gold/turn
[X] Small Stone Civic District (-5 Gold, -2 Stone, +1 Prestige)
----[X] Establish Houses of Healing (-2 Gold, +2 Prosperity)
--[X] Convert to Stone Housing (-2 Gold, +2 Wood Store, -2 Stone, +1 Prestige)
I like Uju's reasoning behind this vote, it's well thought out and should pay dividends in the future.
- Location
- Central Europe
Got an insightful rating from the QM on that post, so I guess that counts as my interpretation of events being correct.
I agree though that knowing exactly what the winning vote was would be useful.
Dark Abstraction
Infrequent Participant
- Location
- United States
That's not what that means. A QM rating a post means that they appreciate what you had to say on some level, it does not mean the assumptions made in the post they rated is correct. If Sayle wanted people to let people know that someone's statements were correct, he'd just say so.
(This isn't a snipe at you, just making sure people don't start making assumptions based off ratings rather than statements of intent)
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For further details on the case:
The boy in question was about eight years old when his father was killed and both he and his mother were integrated into the population. Andreth then took both the mother and son into his house, though he not marry her or give them his family name. The woman has borne him no children, and given her recalcitrance it's difficult to establish if they ever actually slept together or not. The boy has a history of being surly and disrespectful, and has only learned enough Sindarin to be understood, which is little compared to other children taken from Eryn Vorn. There was an altercation the day of the murder that the mother will not be drawn on, only that they were arguing, and the boy stabbed Andreth later in the evening while meals were being prepared. He then attempted to flee but was caught by the guard. At the time of the murder, the boy is eleven years old.
The law courts have already decided on the death penalty for obvious reasons, but are primarily tied up on if it is patricide when the boy was essentially being fathered by Andreth (despite the boy's stubborness) for a number of years, and there is a general sense among the Dunedain population that the killing was more heinous than murder, but there is more division as to whether it is so far as patricide.
There has been an uptick in the number of marriages between Wild-women and Dunedain since the event, primarily among those who already consider the children they have fostered their own.
PS: The building stopped with the population tick, just before the walls were scheduled to be built.
The boy in question was about eight years old when his father was killed and both he and his mother were integrated into the population. Andreth then took both the mother and son into his house, though he not marry her or give them his family name. The woman has borne him no children, and given her recalcitrance it's difficult to establish if they ever actually slept together or not. The boy has a history of being surly and disrespectful, and has only learned enough Sindarin to be understood, which is little compared to other children taken from Eryn Vorn. There was an altercation the day of the murder that the mother will not be drawn on, only that they were arguing, and the boy stabbed Andreth later in the evening while meals were being prepared. He then attempted to flee but was caught by the guard. At the time of the murder, the boy is eleven years old.
The law courts have already decided on the death penalty for obvious reasons, but are primarily tied up on if it is patricide when the boy was essentially being fathered by Andreth (despite the boy's stubborness) for a number of years, and there is a general sense among the Dunedain population that the killing was more heinous than murder, but there is more division as to whether it is so far as patricide.
There has been an uptick in the number of marriages between Wild-women and Dunedain since the event, primarily among those who already consider the children they have fostered their own.
PS: The building stopped with the population tick, just before the walls were scheduled to be built.
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That settle the question then for me. This is a pre-modern society. Family name means a lot. Conversely, so is the stigma and burden of being fatherless. Perhaps the murder is more heinous than murder between strangers, but what's fair is fair: If you didn't receive the full rights of being family, you should not be charged with the full obligation of being family.
Well, I'm clearly outnumbered in vote, but principle is principle, even in games.
Well, I'm clearly outnumbered in vote, but principle is principle, even in games.
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[X] Official or not, this is a patricide.
[X] Send three population to settle the Blue Mountains (-16 Gold, +3 Stone, +3 Metal, Farm/Quarry/Mine/Housing):-16 gold, +3 Stone, + 3 Metal, +3 Food
--[X] Empty the mercantile district. -2 Gold/turn
[X] Small Stone Civic District (-5 Gold, -2 Stone, +1 Prestige)
----[X] Establish Houses of Healing (-2 Gold, +2 Prosperity)
--[X] Convert to Stone Housing (-2 Gold, +2 Wood Store, -2 Stone, +1 Prestige)
[X] Send three population to settle the Blue Mountains (-16 Gold, +3 Stone, +3 Metal, Farm/Quarry/Mine/Housing):-16 gold, +3 Stone, + 3 Metal, +3 Food
--[X] Empty the mercantile district. -2 Gold/turn
[X] Small Stone Civic District (-5 Gold, -2 Stone, +1 Prestige)
----[X] Establish Houses of Healing (-2 Gold, +2 Prosperity)
--[X] Convert to Stone Housing (-2 Gold, +2 Wood Store, -2 Stone, +1 Prestige)
Chaos Blade
Procrastinating Writer
- Location
- Buenos Aires, Argentina
@Spacegnom you were seemingly right, but as @Dark Abstraction noted, an insightful is not exactly the same as being right. honestly, as a game master, and my tabletop experience can attest, the game master's expressions or questions and what they really are up to can be very different. Sometimes they like to sow paranoia (sometimes the paranoia sows itself, in spite of the master's actions...) so one needs to keep in mind what the questmaster has ourighly stated and probe him/her on those words, just to be sure
With this info, going for patricide would be heavy handed and even cruel. it is obvious the kid was unhappy with the arrangement, I am worried about the reticence of the mother to elaborate, and Andreth taking in both of them and yet not trying to woo the woman... something here is off...
Kid and Adreth argue about something, kid then stabs Andreth... this strikes me as there is something else going on and I have a couple of hunches, none of them good.
Dark Abstraction
Infrequent Participant
- Location
- United States
Sems more like he took them in but was respecting that she likely wasn't comfortable with becoming more involved with him. They didn't marry, which likely has some effect on whether they slept together or not, and would also be why the kid didn't get the family name; if he hasn't married the kid's mother then he wouldn't get it unless he was adopted, and adopting the kid would be a very strange and likely questionable act in such a situation, possibly being seen as trying to take the child from her.
In respect to the case as a whole, I'd just like to establish that although the courts have decided on the death penalty because that's the response to any murder, they don't actually decide the boy's fate - that goes to Arvedui. Kings (or Chiefs) have some latitude. You have the facts as known, but there are different outcomes depending on your decision (neither necessarily 'wrong' or 'right').
Easter
Laziest lazier
- Location
- Bed
It also could be that the mother slept with the victim and the child found out about it(or finally got to a breaking point) and confronted the victim thus the argument and why the mother refuses to talk since she doesn't want to be looked down upon by others.
I think something to remember in this case is that we can read minds. We don't need to play a game of CluedoTM to work out the murder motive here, you know?
So my vote would be:
[X] Have the boy brought before us. Ask him to recount what happened in his own words and look into his mind as he does.
--[X] Decide our ruling and if any clemency should be given based upon that.
[X] Send three Population to settle the Blue Mountains (-16 Gold, +3 Stone, +3 Metal, Farm/Quarry/Mine/Housing):-16 gold, +3 Stone, + 3 Metal, +3 Food
--[X] Empty the mercantile district. -2 Gold/turn
[X] Small Stone Civic District (-5 Gold, -2 Stone, +1 Prestige)
----[X] Establish Houses of Healing (-2 Gold, +2 Prosperity)
--[X] Convert to Stone Housing (-2 Gold, +2 Wood Store, -2 Stone, +1 Prestige)
Special Actions
-[X] Send messengers to Imladris and to the Havens, letting them know of our survival and how we fare now, and asking if they have any new tidings of the Enemy. Thank them for their aid against the Witch King.
-[X] Put together a small picked band of men from our Militia and the Chieftain's retinue. These will be the first of our rangers, and they will roam far and wide watching our borders.
@uju32's build actions look good, it pains me to close down our mercantile district but I guess we have to find 1 Population from somewhere. There isn't anything else we could shut down, is there?
EDIT: Also included my special actions from the last turn, I think they'd still be a good idea.
So my vote would be:
[X] Have the boy brought before us. Ask him to recount what happened in his own words and look into his mind as he does.
--[X] Decide our ruling and if any clemency should be given based upon that.
[X] Send three Population to settle the Blue Mountains (-16 Gold, +3 Stone, +3 Metal, Farm/Quarry/Mine/Housing):-16 gold, +3 Stone, + 3 Metal, +3 Food
--[X] Empty the mercantile district. -2 Gold/turn
[X] Small Stone Civic District (-5 Gold, -2 Stone, +1 Prestige)
----[X] Establish Houses of Healing (-2 Gold, +2 Prosperity)
--[X] Convert to Stone Housing (-2 Gold, +2 Wood Store, -2 Stone, +1 Prestige)
Special Actions
-[X] Send messengers to Imladris and to the Havens, letting them know of our survival and how we fare now, and asking if they have any new tidings of the Enemy. Thank them for their aid against the Witch King.
-[X] Put together a small picked band of men from our Militia and the Chieftain's retinue. These will be the first of our rangers, and they will roam far and wide watching our borders.
@uju32's build actions look good, it pains me to close down our mercantile district but I guess we have to find 1 Population from somewhere. There isn't anything else we could shut down, is there?
EDIT: Also included my special actions from the last turn, I think they'd still be a good idea.
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Well, a lot of assumptions about what happened. But the facts remains, the boy isn't recognized as family. Perhaps that was truly the boy's own fault. Perhaps Andreth who was secretly vile. Perhaps it was everybody's and nobody's fault. Fact remained, the boy isn't recognized as child. Should the law are meant to acknowledge him as Andreth's child, it should have been done before. Not now, when it can looks like an excuse to more heavily condemn the child.
Being fair, law is naturally do not tend to solve difficult situtation until some breaking happened that draw attention to it. Maybe it's not too late. Maybe, even the means are not through establishment of punishment and drawback, rather than rights and benefit, this case can still be used as precedent to establish that all of these fostered child are essentially now the sons of Dunedain, and entitled to full rights as so. Hopefully that would be the case, seeing I'm most likely going to be outvoted here. But I do fear the opposite is going to happend. That this case would be used as precedent to impose the full familial obligation on unrecognized children, or of overly proud men explicitly denying familial relation, at the cost of throwing out some kids. *shrug* Que sera sera
EDIT: err, I don't think that's material regardless. There's may be clemency that can be given, depending the situation. But the question is whether or not the killing is patricide, not about the merited punishment.
Being fair, law is naturally do not tend to solve difficult situtation until some breaking happened that draw attention to it. Maybe it's not too late. Maybe, even the means are not through establishment of punishment and drawback, rather than rights and benefit, this case can still be used as precedent to establish that all of these fostered child are essentially now the sons of Dunedain, and entitled to full rights as so. Hopefully that would be the case, seeing I'm most likely going to be outvoted here. But I do fear the opposite is going to happend. That this case would be used as precedent to impose the full familial obligation on unrecognized children, or of overly proud men explicitly denying familial relation, at the cost of throwing out some kids. *shrug* Que sera sera
DOH!
EDIT: err, I don't think that's material regardless. There's may be clemency that can be given, depending the situation. But the question is whether or not the killing is patricide, not about the merited punishment.
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Oh, and catching up on this.
Thanks for clearing that up. I was just having a bit of a heart attack thinking we'd sleepwalked into having to mortgage our children to build six stone walls whilst you were cackling over your GM cauldron. Maybe a tad paranoid, but my first major quest was Knight's Quest, so I've still got a fair amount of Quester PTSD left over.
The Tao of Samuel L. Jackson is one I wish I followed a bit better myself as well, yeah. If you agree that a full-on Minas Anor style setup with excessive redundant walls is unnecessary, then it seems we were essentially loudly agreeing.
Often the way with internet discussions. I'd just clarify that I don't believe concentric walls are a bad idea; just that excessively redundant stone walls in a fortress-style setup aren't a great model for a trading city for whom stone is scarce. But that's probably clear by now.
Thanks for clearing that up. I was just having a bit of a heart attack thinking we'd sleepwalked into having to mortgage our children to build six stone walls whilst you were cackling over your GM cauldron. Maybe a tad paranoid, but my first major quest was Knight's Quest, so I've still got a fair amount of Quester PTSD left over.
Serves me right for making arguments when I should be asleep.
The rest does hold true I think.
*checks*
And the GM has weighed in. Time to go take out the trash.
The Tao of Samuel L. Jackson is one I wish I followed a bit better myself as well, yeah. If you agree that a full-on Minas Anor style setup with excessive redundant walls is unnecessary, then it seems we were essentially loudly agreeing.
Often the way with internet discussions. I'd just clarify that I don't believe concentric walls are a bad idea; just that excessively redundant stone walls in a fortress-style setup aren't a great model for a trading city for whom stone is scarce. But that's probably clear by now.
What happened?
Chaos Blade
Procrastinating Writer
- Location
- Buenos Aires, Argentina
Old school Sierra Graphical adventure series of games, you could die... a lot... in a lot of ways because you didn't do a few things ages ago.
Actually referring to a different thing. I could best sum it up in this comic. Props for excellent knowledge of gaming history however.
DOH!
EDIT: err, I don't think that's material regardless. There's may be clemency that can be given, depending the situation. But the question is whether or not the killing is patricide, not about the merited punishment.
My though was that we could get some insight into what his home life was like, and whether he should really be considered the victim's son, as well as insight for our ruling. But if you'd prefer to keep it to just providing insight for our ruling, we could just go for this add-on:
[X] Official or not, this is a patricide.
--[X] Have the boy brought before us, and ask him to give his account of events. Look into his mind as he does, and use this to inform our ruling, and whether any clemency should be given for one so young.
If that's more preferable to people.
Chaos Blade
Procrastinating Writer
- Location
- Buenos Aires, Argentina
Now I feel silly. Though, to be honest... Early King's Quests were rather brutal (only played III, never got very far. Evil cats are evil and being on the clock without knowing you are in the clock? even evil-er)
This is more agreeable to me. like I said, something here is not quite right
- Location
- nz
[X] Official or not, this is a patricide.
[X] Send three population to settle the Blue Mountains (-16 Gold, +3 Stone, +3 Metal, Farm/Quarry/Mine/Housing):-16 gold, +3 Stone, + 3 Metal, +3 Food
--[X] Empty the mercantile district. -2 Gold/turn
[X] Small Stone Civic District (-5 Gold, -2 Stone, +1 Prestige)
----[X] Establish Houses of Healing (-2 Gold, +2 Prosperity)
--[X] Convert to Stone Housing (-2 Gold, +2 Wood Store, -2 Stone, +1 Prestige)
[X] Send three population to settle the Blue Mountains (-16 Gold, +3 Stone, +3 Metal, Farm/Quarry/Mine/Housing):-16 gold, +3 Stone, + 3 Metal, +3 Food
--[X] Empty the mercantile district. -2 Gold/turn
[X] Small Stone Civic District (-5 Gold, -2 Stone, +1 Prestige)
----[X] Establish Houses of Healing (-2 Gold, +2 Prosperity)
--[X] Convert to Stone Housing (-2 Gold, +2 Wood Store, -2 Stone, +1 Prestige)
FieryMatter
Fire and Fiery
- Location
- Beyond the Sunset Sea
@Sayle do we know the motive for the boy killing the man, and additional context behind this incident? Because I can think of at least 2 different scenarios based on the descriptions you provided where the boy has a legit reason of doing so, and several more where a death penalty is not deserved.
Edit: what did the boy have to say about why he did it? There are potentially some very, very dark reasons for why the boy felt that he had to kill the man.
Edit: what did the boy have to say about why he did it? There are potentially some very, very dark reasons for why the boy felt that he had to kill the man.
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