Arjac
Retreating Backwards
from what I understand, it's below average even in the context of its own genre
But the existence of the "you" that you believe in is so tenuous - Shin Megami Tensei/Persona General
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GilliamYaeger
M'crazy.
Dancing All Night's plot involves people committing suicide from the sheer pressure of the job.
Plus, y'know, it was a side game made after the original RPG, a fighting game, and a remake of the original RPG with additional content. If you're trying to compare the two games...no. just no.
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It's not a very good dancing game, no. But it's cute!
It's also still a game where you solve all your problems through dancing. Even the original game isn't unrelenting darkness. Even SMT3 and Avatar Tuner aren't without lighter moments. The franchise can handle being a lot of things.
GilliamYaeger
M'crazy.
Oh I agree. The franchise can handle being a lot of things.
It just couldn't handle being this, and the sales showed it quite decisively.
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Well, no one ever claimed that SMT fans weren't pretty salty by nature 
e: More seriously, a number of honestly very good video games have sold poorly. I don't know if this is a good video game or not, and I'll probably never find out because there's no way that Atlus US will localise it without also blowing it up in the process.
e: More seriously, a number of honestly very good video games have sold poorly. I don't know if this is a good video game or not, and I'll probably never find out because there's no way that Atlus US will localise it without also blowing it up in the process.
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GilliamYaeger
M'crazy.
hahaha oh man this is so fucking true.
Just imagine the dub version of that song I linked. Jesus christ how horrifying.
One Classy Hydra
Bespoke Time Machines est. 2874
Whelp. Guess that's one less reason to get a WiiU, considering the chances of it getting localized just tanked.
Visual motifs tend to have surprisingly little to do with actual content (for example, fluffy chibi-artstyled Persona Q has what's likely the most depressing story of the entire series), though I agree it's funny the aesthetic is hilariously far from anything in either series. I'm actually totally fine with idol shit, or really any sort of broader design genre, so long as it's used well to tell its specific story and maintains thematic coherence with whatever it's trying to say.
Visual motifs tend to have surprisingly little to do with actual content (for example, fluffy chibi-artstyled Persona Q has what's likely the most depressing story of the entire series), though I agree it's funny the aesthetic is hilariously far from anything in either series. I'm actually totally fine with idol shit, or really any sort of broader design genre, so long as it's used well to tell its specific story and maintains thematic coherence with whatever it's trying to say.
Sucal
The Devil’s Cut
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Nope.
Barely any song selection, even less limited character selection and while the plot is interesting you should be able to use any character in any song. I prefer Bust a Grove or pappa the rapper, both of which were better on PS1. Also, sick of Persona 4, give me Aleph finding his step.
It can handle a lot of things, but it was the closest we've had to a mainline SMT game being on a proper SMT game since Nocturne. I'm a fire emblem fan, I'm an SMT fan and I'm even a Persona fan, though I really want them to stop milking the shit out of Persona 4 already and give 3 and 5 the love. It shouldn't be possible to crossover two and a half game series I love (lets face it, SMT and Persona are barely connected these days) to get a game that makes me shudder in disgust. They've got plenty of sub series in the SMT for those weird quirky games, I want more old fashioned, EVERYTHING IS FUCKED SMT and less persona (gonna play the shit out of 5 though).
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I don't understand this. It's not like this is purporting to be a mainline SMT game, you have another mainline SMT game coming, and you actually don't know what the content is, just its aesthetic.
Sucal
The Devil’s Cut
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Yes I do.
Would you like to know the fusion accidents final boss?
Or the Fire Emblem characters who really did get messed around with during the plot.
I could even spoil several things that weren't in any trailers if you like.
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You have a pile of spoilers and a number of preconceptions. It's a pity that you've ruined whatever joy you might have taken from the product, but that's your business, not mine.
Sucal
The Devil’s Cut
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I had no intention of getting the product after I saw the first gameplay trailer.
ZerbanDaGreat
Daemon Noble of D E M O G R A P H I C S
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If you ask me, the two solid years of deafening silence followed by this... thing... was no secret. I'd put down money that something more... shall we say tone-appropriate to an SMTxFire Emblem crossover was constructed first try. Then, making sure they didn't announce anything before they were certain it could work, they cancelled it. Maybe their original vision wasn't panning out, maybe the original product didn't differentiate itself substantially enough from the modern FEs, maybe the devs just got pressure from their corporate overlords to open up their game development womb and shove a few Idolshit tumours in there with the fetus. Or you know what, maybe the game was entirely unrelated to either property at first. The devs did say that they made it as its own IP. The SMT and Fire Emblem elements are unmistakeably slapped-on. I'd say we've got another case of Dinosaur Planet on our hands. Only with less furries. I hope.
Because make no mistake, this is a game about money over artistic vision. When you want the maximum amount of money from your audience you pander like there's no tomorrow, and you pander by stuffing in fanservice. Japan fucking loves idols, so it's about idols and performing and dressing like you walked through a lingerie shop in a tornado. And that FFX-2 pic in the collage above is kind of hilariously accurate, given that party members fight Mirages by performing Class Card Installs with their Dress Spheres. All we need is Nowi and we'll truly have the most Japanese game ever made. And here I thought literally everything about the Chrom/Sumia Support was just an outlier, not a portent of things to come. Chrom, please, get out while you still can. Getting abused in Smash is still better than this.
But hey, the best part about pandering to the lowest common denominator is that there are a lot of them, so of course the game's going to be wildly successful. And sometimes even fusion accidents appeal to someone.
Well, no one ever claimed that SMT fans weren't pretty salty by nature
Least you could do is dial down the condescension against the people who thought quite reasonably that the most logical result of a tone-combo between Shin Megami Tensei classic and Fire Emblem would be more Berserk and less Sword Art Online. And that there is no version of this combo that should have ended with the party charging off to fight the final boss with the mighty cry of "FIIIII~YA EMMM~BUREM".
I mean you're the one victim-blaming here so like who's the real monster?????
GilliamYaeger
M'crazy.
Actually, if you'll look back to my post which started this whole conversation, it appears to have flopped. Rather badly, in fact.
So yeah. Not even the lowest common denominator wants this.
ZerbanDaGreat
Daemon Noble of D E M O G R A P H I C S
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People setting expectations about video games based on basically nothing is an incredibly unfortunate habit that really needs to be broken.
ps no one using the term 'lowest common denominator' can really complain about other people being condescending lol
One Classy Hydra
Bespoke Time Machines est. 2874
a tornado. And that FFX-2 pic in the collage above is kind of hilariously accurate, given that party members fight Mirages by performing Class Card Installs with their Dress Spheres.
...But this would be great, considering the Dress Sphere system was quite possibly the best combat system ever created in a Final Fantasy game?
That's an utterly bizarre comparison. You are aware SAO trends tonally fairly dark, right? I'd argue Persona 4 is actually lighter fair than it, as are a handful of Fire Emblem games. It isn't actually good, but tone has nothing to do with quality.
This too.
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ZerbanDaGreat
Daemon Noble of D E M O G R A P H I C S
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TIL that making predictions based on prior evidence is an 'unfortunate habit' and gamers should never feel disappointment in anything offered to them because it's their fault. I mean clearly if Resident Evil: Revelations had been announced and then later revealed to be a rhythm game where Jill, Rachael and Jessica do sexy dances with virusmonsters in wetsuits then it would've been everyone else who was in the wrong for taking that announcement poorly, not Capcom.
It's the difference between being condescending to your peers, who have done nothing to deserve it, and being condescending towards people in an industry that thinks producing garbage and wrapping it in [Insert Intellectual Property Here] paper because the [Insert Intellectual Property Here] fandom likes it is a capital idea and not creatively bankrupt at all.
Not the point. The point being that FFX-2 was a game about being as Anime As Humanly Fucking Possible, from gameplay that entirely revolved around dressing three attractive anime girls up in cute outfits to Yuna having given up her job as a holy priestess to be a sexy pirate hooker pop star to that one minigame where you basically bring another woman to orgasm by fully straddling her and massaging her back while she moans about how good you are with your hands.
My apologies, I tried to think of 'shitty anime full of pandering with swords and stuff' and SAO was all that came to mind at the time.
edit: Which is kind of funny because there are parts of SAO that try really hard to be Berserk that turn out pretty fucking hilarious.
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GilliamYaeger
M'crazy.
You were looking for K-On, Zerban.
Or maybe Free because that was wildly unsuccessful too.
Or maybe Free because that was wildly unsuccessful too.
I believe a a large portion of the problem is that the game was known as Fire Emblem/SMT. The IPs, while the most prominent from the developers, are not all that is produced by them. If a collaboration between Atlus and Intelligent Systems was announced the reactions would be different. There would probably be less hype, but those whose expectations weren't lived up to would have much less standing.
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I have no particular opinion on the end product- It doesn't look like my sort of thing, but that doesn't mean it's bad or anything- but to say that it's unreasonable to have expected something tonally and aesthetically resembling "Shin Megami Tensei crossed over with Fire Emblem" from "SMT X FE" is kind of ridiculous on the face of it. I wouldn't go as far as to call it false advertising, because technically the original trailer advertised basically nothing, but from a marketing standpoint it's rather misleading and fairly obvious why most people drew incorrect conclusions, even if you in your infinite wisdom did not.
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The announcement contained two titles and the indication that the game would be an RPG. It was an announcement of a collaboration, but otherwise contained no information which could reasonably be used to make any actual predictions on what the final product would or could be. 'It isn't like the game I imagined based on basically nothing' is an unfortunate habit. When you're told a new project is starting, but all you know is the project name, that isn't really a strong basis for making predictions.
Your comparison with Resident Evil is nonsensical. It wasn't the case that you had a great deal of useful information from which the details of a video game could be inferred. You made up a game in your head, and then when the game was actually announced you were disappointed when it didn't match your imagination, but it's not their fault you imagined it in the first place.
When Genei Ibunroku #FE was actually announced, if your response to it was 'actually I don't like how this looks' then that's totally fine, but Sucal was talking about being misled, which simply wasn't the case.
Spare me. Nobody says 'lowest common denominator' or talks about how it will sell like hotcakes unless they're dissing on the audience. I don't care how you feel about the mass audience, but you don't have the moral high ground, dude. You were being condescending to the primarily Japanese audience and basically anyone that might look at this and say 'actually I kind of like it.' Either own that or take off your tone police uniform.
What? Free was a massive hit and was one of 2013's best selling shows. It was in the 28000 unit region along with Love Live.
Revlid
blob of bugs
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Why have you shuffled the "two titles" bit of that statement off into the corner like a hasty disclaimer? It's literally the entire point being made.
If I announce a crossover between Pokemon and Nobunaga's Ambition, my audience should absolutely expect a game comprised of aspects, aesthetic and mechanical, taken from those two franchises. Something that would appeal to fans of both franchises, and actually looks like what you'd get if you combined Pokemon and Nobunaga's Ambition.
...As opposed to an idol game where I catch feudal lords in Pokeballs and use them to produce J-pop shows in Pokecosplay.
Actually, I think there is a distinction between talking down about a vague blob of people who Like What I Don't Like, and directly talking down to other people in a thread lol
If nothing else, there's the practical difference of how much it impacts the opinion of the immediate audience lol
I don't think the use of the term "lowest common denominator" merits a direct comparison to personal condescension lol
The fact that in this case the stuff being/not being liked is idolgames, the grey-and-brown military FPS of Japanese gaming, isn't hugely relevant lol
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The point being made is that there is a crossover game, of some kind, that is in development. It remains that the tonally identical to SMT2 + characters and mechanics from Fire Emblem (let's set aside that this would require basically completely ignoring whatever Fire Emblem brings to the table thematically and aesthetically) was just a wild extrapolation based on essentially no data. Shin Megami Tensei is a versatile franchise that has, at this point, done an enormous number of different things.
The difference is mostly that people in the thread can actually respond to me.
This whole condescension thing is a fallacy anyway. Just Zerban's attempt to shut me down by making me ashamed of my conduct. Frankly, I'm not ashamed: it's the truth, and it's exactly how I feel. If you think what I've said so far is condescending then frankly you can just deal with it.
Having watched some of the big livestream, it's got Knights of the Round length animations for fairly normal attacks. Excuse me while I have PTSD flashbacks to quad-casting against bosses in FF VII. And this is a feature?!
Now, I'm not going to talk down to Idol lovers; it's not something I'm personally interested in but hey, plenty love it. And this game probably would have gone over a lot better if they said it was Persona with Idols and Fire Emblem references. So it's a good thing that they dropped the SMT branding as despite what you seem to think the game had nothing to do with it. So yes, I agree that by the time the media campaign to its release was heating up there was no misleading the audience. That the game seems to be garbage is a completely different story and I'm hoping this convinces the studio to focus on its strengths rather than well, this.
SMT has been defined for the past two decades as being dark. There's a good reason that modern Persona games have been cut away from the SMT branding. So when you come out and say "this is going to be a Fusion of the SMT games and X" you generally are telling the audience to ask themselves how many of their friends they plan on killing over ideological differences.
Now, I'm not going to talk down to Idol lovers; it's not something I'm personally interested in but hey, plenty love it. And this game probably would have gone over a lot better if they said it was Persona with Idols and Fire Emblem references. So it's a good thing that they dropped the SMT branding as despite what you seem to think the game had nothing to do with it. So yes, I agree that by the time the media campaign to its release was heating up there was no misleading the audience. That the game seems to be garbage is a completely different story and I'm hoping this convinces the studio to focus on its strengths rather than well, this.