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Burning Twice As Bright (ATLA Azula SI)

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midnightmissiles said:
'No. They attacked us. They are not allowed to escape.' The border of our vision is red with the rage finally unleashed. Our hand reach out and lift, and the pirates find themselves being thrown—by the blood within their body, by the bones that hold them together, and by their very flesh—back onto the deck of the galley that is twisting and warping in delightful agony as heat transfers and gathers and builds up within its body.​
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Let's see...
  • Azula is a prodigal bender who learns techniques as if they were second nature. She then goes on to invent new ones.
  • She has a natural charisma and presence that she uses to draw followers and subvert enemies, seemingly without trying.
  • The spiritual-reincarnation of her past life lives in her head and hands out advice advice.
  • She intends to return balance to the world through conquest. Honestly, with full knowledge of modern ethics, medicine, technology, and culture, dragging civilization, kicking and screaming, into the future is the only logical course of action.
  • Now she is capable of bloodbending, sorry, :turian:heatbending:turian:an entire sailing crew out of the water and throwing them back aboard their ship.

And of course there is Fishie's own not-actually-a-denial a few snippets back.
Interregnum said:
Azula is actually the Avatar :p
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midnightmissiles said:
I'll give you one thing though, it's that this was more on Azula's own genius than on the SI's influence.
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I'm on to you, Fishie ;)
 
Since she can manipulate heat, I really want to see her just freeze someone in place by speed draining it from them entirely, it'll be instant death.

It'll be hilarious if she runs into any water benders as well, they'll be freaked out about how she's able to dictate what states their waters are.
 
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The "fun" thing with being as strong as she is comes to the issue of volume and distance. She's currently forced to contend with not being able to fight at a meaningful range while Cpt. Jolt can. Then there is the lovely issue of scale, when looking at the kind of things Bumi is capable of. It makes one wonder how long it might take for Azula to increase her power to where she can do her thermalbending without having both minds aligned to one purpose.

Perhaps the amount of force Azula brings to bear through her firebending comes from having two minds and maybe two spirits fueling her fires at the same time.

I'm still desperately hoping for someone to describe what they see when looking at Azula in the Spirit World. I'm sure it's appropriately horrifying/beautiful.
 
Generalissimo said:
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Tavarokk said:
small time scum bulling local fishermen and traders
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A single ship and no benders.


The above mentioned theory that this Jolt guy has backing in the Navy command is plausible though. There are people like Zhao there, after all. They'd definitely let an unsrupulous captain rob some honest traiders and claim those were rebel supply ships in exchange for the portion of the loot. But that would mean no witnesses.
 
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Tavarokk said:
A single ship and no benders.


The above mentioned theory that this Jolt guy has backing in the Navy command is plausible though. There are people like Zhao there, after all. They'd definitely let an unsrupulous captain rob some honest traiders and claim those were rebel supply ships in exchange for the portion of the loot. But that would mean no witnesses.
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Yeah, Lightning Bend may mean 'No Witnesses' if it would help their Goal.

Bad Luck if the Princess is there.

OTOH, this may be a attempt on her life, Blame the Pirates..
 
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Hmm, who thinks that Azula is going to be redirecting lightning in this next chapter?

The "spirit" already knows how to do it, and after knowing the theory, Azula should be able to pull it off with her natural excellence.

As for WHY this guy can bend lightning and nobody else can...

What if it's not actually that hard? Well, no. it's "only the very best firebenders can do it" level of thing, but no other firebending master has ever tried, because 99% of firebenders are loyal to the Fire Lord, and everybody knows that "only the royal family can use lightning"

Now, most of us read this as "only they are capable of bending lightning" but it's just as easy to see it as "Only they have the right to use royal lightning"

It's something that most master Firebenders probably deliberately never consider trying, because being seen to bend lightning while not being a part of the royal family is political (and possibly literal) suicide.

A Pirate already has a death sentence on his head, why should he care? (Hint: He definitely should, because a standard pirate hunting effort is not the same as getting assigned personal hit-squads to hunt you down and assassinate you, but nobody ever said pirates were smart)
 
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It's interesting to remember how in LoK a lot of random firebenders could lightning bend to some degree, even if only in careful controlled situations and with protection equipment. As such, it might be perfectly possible that a good but not particularly great firebender ended developing it on his own (well, one in many, the rest ended killing themselves trying :p ), but most likely, it's not something they are really good at, more of a show piece than something they can really go all out with in combat and not end killing themselves if thrown out of balance for a moment while doing so.
 
Apparently losing this fleet is considered insignificant, so who knows how many iron ships there are in the whole navy. Also, are iron ships explicitly only for military use or just really rare in the civilian sector? That could explain how the pirate got the ship.

 
Emdeman said:
Apparently losing this fleet is considered insignificant, so who knows how many iron ships there are in the whole navy. Also, are iron ships explicitly only for military use or just really rare in the civilian sector? That could explain how the pirate got the ship.

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Wasn't there implications that that invasion fleet took a lot of time, effort, money etc. to gather?

Admittedly... the loss of it didn't really affect their war effort at all to be honest, beyond them deciding to leave the Northern Tribe alone for a while...
 
Well, I'd guess that those ships have a crew capacity of 50 to 100 people, going by the upper end, that would mean about 11.000 men on those ships.

If I remember correctly, this was the Northern fleet, which was mostly there to secure the northern seas against possible incursions from the North Pole.

Losing it was definitely a blow, 100+ iron ships aren't something you churn out within less than 5 years, it depends on the amount of wharfs that can produce war ships.

And yes, it's definitely a sign for a highly industrialized nation. After all, chances are good that other fleets have similar numbers of ships, meaning the Fire Nation has access to large amounts of steel. After all, building ships with steel consumes hundreds to thousands tons of steel.
 
Shaithan said:
Well, I'd guess that those ships have a crew capacity of 50 to 100 people, going by the upper end, that would mean about 11.000 men on those ships.

If I remember correctly, this was the Northern fleet, which was mostly there to secure the northern seas against possible incursions from the North Pole.

Losing it was definitely a blow, 100+ iron ships aren't something you churn out within less than 5 years, it depends on the amount of wharfs that can produce war ships.

And yes, it's definitely a sign for a highly industrialized nation. After all, chances are good that other fleets have similar numbers of ships, meaning the Fire Nation has access to large amounts of steel. After all, building ships with steel consumes hundreds to thousands tons of steel.
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I thought the fleet was just gathered for the invasion and hadn't really existed before that point beyond a scattering of ships on the sea.
They didn't really have a lot to secure against anyway.. none of the other nations had a navy.
 
Shaithan said:
Losing it was definitely a blow, 100+ iron ships aren't something you churn out within less than 5 years, it depends on the amount of wharfs that can produce war ships.
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Just a note,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Navy_in_World_War_II

By 1943, the Navy's size was larger than the combined fleets of all the other combatant nations in World War II.[6]​ By war's end in 1945, the United States Navy had added nearly 1,200 major combatant ships, including 27 aircraft carriers and 8 battleships, and had over 70% of the world's total numbers and total tonnage of naval vessels of 1,000 tons or greater.[7]​[8]​ At its peak, the U.S. Navy was operating 6,768 ships on V-J Day in August 1945, including 28 aircraft carriers, 23 battleships, 71 escort carriers, 72 cruisers, over 232 submarines, 377 destroyers, and thousands of amphibious, supply and auxiliary ships.[9]​
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It also mentions the navy had around 350 combat ships before 1941. That means that it built around 900 ships in 3 years. So yes 100 ships is demonstrably something you can build in less than 5 years. Now it is true that the fire nation is more in a 1905 rather than 1945 technological level but just because it seems like a lot doesn't mean it actually is. Anoyingly it is very hard to find nubmers for the destroyers being built between 1906 and 1914 while there is lots of information on the number of dreadnaughts. :(


Remember that the Fire Nation is the most powerful and industrially advanced power in the world. They have conquered much of the earth kingdom at this point and are highly likely to be plundering it for its natural resources. We see that they use iron all over where other nations do not implying that they do have a significant advantage in that industry. Now given the poor maps we see it could be that we are only dealing with a single hemisphere of the planet. So an asia without europe or africa attached, an america with the islands of the pacific all scrunched up closer etc. but even so the numbers of ships lost are not beyond the resources of a modernish industrialized nation.
 
The size of avatar world and its landmasses is a hillariously messy topic to debate, estimates range from pretty small to bigger than earth.
However, sheer size of land dosent have to mean all that much, even with early industrial you can pack people, infrastructure and industry pretty tight if the land is good.
 
The Naval slips in New york at their peaks where seeing one Frigate completed every day, and a destroyer 1-2 weeks. The effective tech difference between them and the fire nation comes down to welders and cranes.

If sufficient labor and Firebenders are applied. Ship production could easily output the above fleet in a year. less if it uses more parallel slips.
 
You're forgetting one thing. The fire nation doesn't have a rail system like the US had at this point in time. Which means shipping in the amount of material needed for 100+ ships takes quite a bit of time to actually ship in. Either over land by cart treks or over water with large freight ships. Neither solution lends itself well to churning out ships at a rate comparable to New York in WW II. Also, I think their still mills are closer to mid to late 19th century in production capacity.
 
Fallenblades643 said:
The Naval slips in New york at their peaks where seeing one Frigate completed every day, and a destroyer 1-2 weeks. The effective tech difference between them and the fire nation comes down to welders and cranes.

If sufficient labor and Firebenders are applied. Ship production could easily output the above fleet in a year. less if it uses more parallel slips.
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It's not an issue of potential manufacture rate, it's an issue of resources. Without mechanized mining and foundries it isn't possible to create steel at a high enough rate for anything like that. Having made an enemy of the Earth Kingdom and it's Earthbenders, the Fire Nation is limited to pick and shovel mining, manual refining and transport of ore and manual casting of parts.

Also, island nations tend to have pretty poor mineral deposits. Even when they can capture more resource rich Earth Kingdom territories they cannot trust the Earthbenders to mine for them so they fall, again, to pick and shovel mining as seen in the episode where Katara gets them all captured and subsequently loses her mother's necklace.

This also massively extends their supply lines to the shipwrights unless they want to build their key shipyards with their unique manufacture techniques in captured Earth Kingdom lands where just any teenage terrorist could cripple them.

Honestly I see the quantity and preponderance of metal observed in the series as an ostentatious flaunting of the wealth that they have ammassed by conquest, a hundred years worth of captured Earth Kingdom refined metal shipments and stockpiles, but that kind of thing isn't anything that can be relied upon in order to regularly pump out ships.
 
Also, fire bending seems like it would have lots of applications with smelting. IIRC, bessemer pots work by keeping oxygen from coming into contact with the molten metal. If you have magic fire powahs!!! you can probably mimic that effect. And it would make getting the flames required to melt iron in the first place much easier, if nothing else.
 
We see in series titanic barges move material. And we do see Trains and other such steam driven machines.

Remember that New york was 1 of 3 Naval shipyards in the New England area devoted to Warships in WW2. They where all fed from Pittsburgh.
 
Tachikoma's Aunt said:
Also, fire bending seems like it would have lots of applications with smelting. IIRC, bessemer pots work by keeping oxygen from coming into contact with the molten metal. If you have magic fire powahs!!! you can probably mimic that effect. And it would make getting the flames required to melt iron in the first place much easier, if nothing else.
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That's true but that doesn't really address the fact that the rate at which they acquire ore is limited by pick and shovel mining, and the fact that all of the ore would have to be transported by human and animal strength alone.

Drakearth said:
Didn't the fire nation have some earthbenders under their control?
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Captured yes, collaborators not that we ever saw except for the Dai Lee.

Fallenblades643 said:
We see in series titanic barges move material.
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Barges isn't the problem, getting them across the open ocean without hitting a storm and sinking is.

Fallenblades643 said:
And we do see Trains and other such steam driven machines.

Remember that New york was 1 of 3 Naval shipyards in the New England area devoted to Warships in WW2. They where all fed from Pittsburgh.
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Trains in AtLA? :Citation Needed:

The closest thing we see to a train is in Ba Sing Se and it's a stone box that is Fred Flinstoned along basically a stone bridge (no tracks) by Earthbenders.

The only furnace powered things that we see don't burn fuel, they're all directly firebending powered. Also they're all purely locomotion based and war focused, tanks and warships and zeppelins. Not a steamshovel or steamcrane to be seen to load anything onto the abovementioned barges.

Overland transport is an even bigger problem, you can't efficiently transport large loads of ore or metal barstock on unpaved roads, even if you built metal carts and pulled them with badgermoles or some shit the wheels would just sink into the road under the load, and NOBODY in AtLA has paved roads. The issue of weight vs surface strength has real world examples even, this is exactly the way that the biggest tank that the Nazis ever built turned out to be unusable, it destroyed paved roads and simply SANK into fields and dirt roads.
 
Appas fur day. Its a train car on tank tracks. and like many a devices, they use firebenders to supplument coal burning steam Dynamos.
 
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