I figured the 'daughter of janus' bit is a reference to those statues of Janus that have two faces on one head, myself.

It absolutely is! What I meant was...

I'm pretty sure she's just one person (most likely Therese), with an imaginary friend that became a serious psychosis somewhere between abuse through her father and his death by shotgun. They mentioned that they were "seperated" for a short time after being brought to an institution (maybe a mental hospital, might have been a good old Asylum, depends on their age), so propably whatever treatment they got helped.

After Voreman was turned the disorder became a full Malkavian madness.

...referring to this.

There are questions though. Sure it could be Therese was the original personality, and Jeanette was the one she developed to survive the abuse when she was still human, but it could be the other way around, even if it's less likely. Neither of the sister's stories can be completely true which muddies the waters. Moreover there is that painting of their father with two girls, which if it dates back to when they were human opens up the possibility there actually were two Voerman sisters, and one died, the one that survived taking on her dead sister's personality as a coping mechanism.

In dialogue Therese comments that she was the one that sired Jeanette (Which aside from indicating that Therese isn't actually Ventrue, since Jeanette certainly isn't), which makes things even weirder. Maybe there genuinely was a pair of Malk sisters, Therese siring Jeanette, one of them dying and their mind attaching itself to their sister through the Malkavian Madness Network.

There's more than a few genuinely plausible explanations, especially when you throw in vampire powers, but even before then. I think the DID with Therese being the original is the most likely, but it's far from certain.
 
(Which aside from indicating that Therese isn't actually Ventrue, since Jeanette certainly isn't)
I would guess that Therese's control issues and her trouble with drinking blood straight from the source would make a reasonable derangement for a Malk even without Jeanette.

There is always a layer of crazy beneath the obvious.

But aside from that you are right, there are quite a few possibilities and I just said what I thought, not some absolute thruth.
 
In dialogue Therese comments that she was the one that sired Jeanette (Which aside from indicating that Therese isn't actually Ventrue, since Jeanette certainly isn't), which makes things even weirder.
I don't see that it makes things weirder (though they are plenty weird), it's just one of the two easist ways to reinterpret the alternate personality becoming a vampire. Since they're still pretending they're two people (are they even entirely aware they share a body?), it's best blaming either their Sire or Therese for Jeanette changing into a vampire. Because the sequence of events is Sire changes Therese, Jeanette becomes a vampire. By saying she did it, Therese sidesteps their Sire protesting that he only turned one sister.
 
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I don't see that it makes things weirder (though they are plenty weird), it's just one of the two easist ways to reinterpret the alternate personality becoming a vampire. Since they're still pretending they're two people (are they even entirely aware they share a body?), it's best blaming either their Sire or Therese for Jeanette changing into a vampire. Because the sequence of events is Sire changes Therese, Jeanette becomes a vampire. By saying she did it, Therese sidesteps their Sire protesting that he only turned one sister.

Maybe. Of course, there's also the question of whether either side is the original personality after all. It could be that both are creations of the original and the original was subsumed by the madness. (Of course, that could be making things too complicated)
 
Moreover there is that painting of their father with two girls, which if it dates back to when they were human opens up the possibility there actually were two Voerman sisters, and one died, the one that survived taking on her dead sister's personality as a coping mechanism.

Depending on when it was made, it doesn't rule out there just being the one.
 
What? The PC is 8th Generation, as evidenced by their 15-point blood pool throughout and LaCroix's Dominate doing jack shit at the end of the game.
Assuming the blood-pool mechanics translated over 100% to the game, which isn't automatically true.

Also, the PC's power-levels are still a bit odd considering their ability to take on the Sheriff after a few weeks, while their sire got chumped by him. That might just be because the Sire was ambushed and the Sheriff managed to roll well with that Stake attack, though.
 
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But LaCroix can Dominate the pc earlier in the game, so something very odd is going on there.
There is something very simple going on there. You just likely haven't played a Tremere, or played along side one, in PnP. See there is a Thaumaturgy ritual, albiet a relativly high level one, that lowers your generation by one for an hour and you can either increase the length by an hour or decrease the generation by one per addition success. Yes that ritual is quite over powered as it means that the clan's Antediluvian can pretty guarantee his ability to dominate Cain. The only oddity is this "How did Lacroix, a Ventrue, gain access to that Ritual? Did he outsource or did he pull something highly impressive off in the past?" I personally believe he outsourced since the Tremere are very fond of offering their Thaumaturgic services to Camarila Princes to in debt them and insure that their first thought for how to solve problems is to seek them out.

See Assuming that the Cab driver was both Cain and messing with your generation is definitely not the direction that Occam's razor cuts. Sure there is a line of dialogue from an elder stating that your blood smells stronger and that he thinks Cain is intervening. But first you have to understand that people are not always correct and that everything he says is coming from the mouth of an ancient, inhuman fanatic who is by he way incorrect about the contents of the Ankaran Sarcophagus, And understand that you are in fact stronger at this point. Now lets look at the actual facts: that is the things that are known. First your bloodpool never changes over the course of the game which if your generation changed it would, second consider the level of interest the various powers in LA have in you, a fledgling without any real connections, and finally the fact that there is not even one enemy who is outright immune to your dominate attempts from your character which if you've played PnP you would note is highly odd.
 
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There is something very simple going on there. You just clearly have never played a Tremere before in PnP. See there is Thaumaturgy a ritual that lowers your generation by one for an hour plus you can either increase the length by an hour or decrease the generation by one per addition success. The only oddity is this "How did Lacroix, a Ventrue, gain acess to that Ritual? Did he outsource or did he pull something highly impressive off in the past?" I personally believe he outsourced since the Tremere are very fond of offering their Thaumaturgic services to Camarila Princes to in debt them and insure that their first thought for how to solve problems is to seek them out.

See Assuming that the Cab driver was both Cain and messing with your generation is definitely not the direction that Occam's razor cuts. Sure there is a line of dialogue from an elder stating that your blood smells stronger and that he thinks Cain is intervening. But first you have to understand that people are not always correct and that everything he says is coming from the mouth of an ancient, inhuman fanatic who is by he way incorrect about the contents of the Ankaran Sarcophagus, And understand that you are in fact stronger at this point. Now lets look at the actual facts: that is the things that are known. First your bloodpool never changes over the course of the game which if your generation changed it would, second consider the level of interest the various powers in LA have in you, a fledgling without any real connections, and finally the fact that there is not even one enemy who is outright immune to your dominate attempts from your character which if you've played PnP you would note is highly odd.
That doesn't explain why LaCroix was expecting to be able to Dominate the PC in the endgame. If he had been tinkering with his own generation, he should have known whether or not it would work. So that explanation also fails Occam's Razor.
 
That is where you are actually incorrect. See there is only one thing that needs to be so in order for my theory to work. Namely that I need this ritual to have only been available when Lacroix was expecting to meet with the Clan heads(the people he was just speaking with before you arrived. Given the way dominate functions lowering your generation before meeting with Elders is a very good idea also if you play a tremere remember to use the ritual that makes you immune to Presence as well). This, mind you, is not unreasonable in my opinion as whether he outsourced it or he cast it himself that ritual is not a minor thing and it does require substantial preparation and investment. Where as yours requires first that the Cab driver be Cain and that is never confirmed in the game though it is a reasonable theory. Second Cain would need to choose to do as you stated and Third I want you to remember that his abilities are outright never stated in the source material so you have to also assume he is capable of doing so which, while plausible, is also an assumption. Now that is three assumptions.

Regardless Occam's Razor states that,when all else is equal, the simplest explanation is probably correct. Since in canon it states that the Tremere offer their services to the Camirilla, though it also states that wise princes try to avoid needing that help, and it actually fits the numbers and the game play my theory is simpler and more likely to be correcting until further evidence shows itself.
 
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Assuming the blood-pool mechanics translated over 100% to the game, which isn't automatically true.

Also, the PC's power-levels are still a bit odd considering their ability to take on the Sheriff after a few weeks, while their sire got chumped by him. That might just be because the Sire was ambushed and the Sheriff managed to roll well with that Stake attack, though.

Julia probably just got unlucky there. Who knows about the canon sire?

But LaCroix can Dominate the pc earlier in the game, so something very odd is going on there.
There is something very simple going on there. You just likely haven't played a Tremere, or played along side one, in PnP. See there is a Thaumaturgy ritual, albiet a relativly high level one, that lowers your generation by one for an hour and you can either increase the length by an hour or decrease the generation by one per addition success. Yes that ritual is quite over powered as it means that the clan's Antediluvian can pretty guarantee his ability to dominate Cain. The only oddity is this "How did Lacroix, a Ventrue, gain access to that Ritual? Did he outsource or did he pull something highly impressive off in the past?" I personally believe he outsourced since the Tremere are very fond of offering their Thaumaturgic services to Camarila Princes to in debt them and insure that their first thought for how to solve problems is to seek them out.

See Assuming that the Cab driver was both Cain and messing with your generation is definitely not the direction that Occam's razor cuts. Sure there is a line of dialogue from an elder stating that your blood smells stronger and that he thinks Cain is intervening. But first you have to understand that people are not always correct and that everything he says is coming from the mouth of an ancient, inhuman fanatic who is by he way incorrect about the contents of the Ankaran Sarcophagus, And understand that you are in fact stronger at this point. Now lets look at the actual facts: that is the things that are known. First your bloodpool never changes over the course of the game which if your generation changed it would, second consider the level of interest the various powers in LA have in you, a fledgling without any real connections, and finally the fact that there is not even one enemy who is outright immune to your dominate attempts from your character which if you've played PnP you would note is highly odd.

Interesting. Cain being the cab driver still makes sense, given .... well, the file names of his vocals. That said, it is likely that the PC is a relatively low generation vamp. Which gen specifically is unknown.

That doesn't explain why LaCroix was expecting to be able to Dominate the PC in the endgame. If he had been tinkering with his own generation, he should have known whether or not it would work. So that explanation also fails Occam's Razor.

He had no reason to believe the PC was a lower generation. The rest of the group were, and some of them were either the same or lower gen than LaCroix.

That is where you are actually incorrect. See there is only one thing that needs to be so in order for my theory to work. Namely that I need this ritual to have only been available when Lacroix was expecting to meet with the Clan heads(the people he was just speaking with before you arrived. Given the way dominate functions lowering your generation before meeting with Elders is a very good idea also if you play a tremere remember to use the ritual that makes you immune to Presence as well). This, mind you, is not unreasonable in my opinion as whether he outsourced it or he cast it himself that ritual is not a minor thing and it does require substantial preparation and investment. Where as yours requires first that the Cab driver be Cain and that is never confirmed in the game though it is a reasonable theory. Second Cain would need to choose to do as you stated and Third I want you to remember that his abilities are outright never stated in the source material so you have to also assume he is capable of doing so which, while plausible, is also an assumption. Now that is three assumptions.

Regardless Occam's Razor states that, when all else is equal, the simplest explanation is probably correct. Since in canon it states that the Tremere offer their services to the Camirilla, though it also states that wise princes try to avoid needing that help, and it actually fits the numbers and the game play my theory is simpler and more likely to be correcting until further evidence shows itself.

I can see this. It's unlikely that LaCroix knows the true gen of the PC's sire. What sucks is that in the game, the sire of the PC is a relative unknown, but LaCroix claims them as a former friend.
 
Regardless Occam's Razor states that,when all else is equal, the simplest explanation is probably correct. Since in canon it states that the Tremere offer their services to the Camirilla, though it also states that wise princes try to avoid needing that help, and it actually fits the numbers and the game play my theory is simpler and more likely to be correcting until further evidence shows itself.
I think you're misapplying Occam's Razor, though. There's evidence implying both of those assumptions and none for the Tremere Ritual, which defeats the 'all else being equal' part. If you start ignoring evidence to stick to the simpler solutions, it quickly becomes wrong.

At the very least, the game script outright refers to the Cab Driver as Cain and if you play a Malkavian their dialogue heavily implies he is, which makes that much more likely than not.

Now it's possible you're a naturally low Generation vampire that Cain is using as a pawn, of course. The only evidence he's artificially boosted you is one line of dialogue that might not be true. Of course, there's zero dialogue about the Tremere boosting LaCroix, so it's still not equal, but it's possible you're right because the evidence is weaker here.
 
The theory itself is not an assumption for the same reason that "Cain did it" isn't an assumption need for that theory. I can understand that Cain having the ability to do so being classified as an assumption might seem a little in this case but that is the case due to that fact that this is outright not a stated ability of his at any point. Now his abilities are never stated so as to be up to the Storyteller with the recommendation to restrict them to the themes of the disciplines writ large.

The numbers in the game do not fit the theory of 'Cain did it' at all. Your blood pool doesn't change. No enemies in the entire game ever resist your Dominate beyond what favorable rolls would show. The interest that Straus, a Tremere and thus capable of determining your generation with a ritual, shows in an otherwise powerless fledgling with no real connections would be odd indeed if you where not of low generation to begin with.
 
Chapter 5.1: Contact
Demons. Well, vampires were real here. Drusilla and Ang—pardon, Liam, were real here. Why couldn't demons be as well? Of course, odds were that they were different than they'd been in Sunnydale. Nothing could ever be easy. Still, a demon was easier to hit than a ghost, and after the past couple nights she'd been having, she needed to hit something. To kill something of her own volition. She wanted it to be completely inhuman so that she didn't have to feel any guilt about it whatsoever. Not that she really felt any guilt about the drug dealers, but it was the principle of the thing. Some things just need to burn.

Oh good. The voices agreed with her. That obviously meant she was on the right path here. Shaking her head, Buffy glanced up at Liam and Drusilla. The former had tried something earlier, and she knew it. It hadn't worked, and Buffy had threatened him. Honestly, she'd felt like tearing the Angel-face-stealing vampire's head off, but the presence of Drusilla had saved him and calmed her. This Dru wasn't the one who'd killed Kendra, not the one who had left Spike for a Chaos Demon that was all antlers and slime, not the one who had encouraged Angelus to go on his rampage, helped him with Acathla and tortured Giles. No, this Dru had called her cousin. Hell, she'd actually understood this Dru, for a given value of understanding.

"What kind of demon?" Buffy asked. "Big, tall, short, small, pointy, toothy, cuddly, angry, what?"

Liam blinked. "Kind of demon, lass? It's a demon. Scary, feral thing. One of ol' Scratch's children running around and making a big mess of things."

Oh. Oh dear. That kind of demon. A real demon rather than the cast-offs that came from the Hellmouth in Sunnydale. Though, from the sound of it, this one wasn't going to be the size the mayor had managed to attain at Graduation.

"Nasty thing fell from Heaven millennia ago, and into Hell," Drusilla said, her hand lightly brushing across Buffy's hair, moving it out of her face. "Years of torment later, it seeks to inflict its pain on others."

"Bloody Hell, Slayer," Spike said from his position on her left while Dru sat to her right.

Buffy winced. If it were possible, the blood would be draining from her face as she thought it over. Words came unbidden to her lips. "It found a host, and a shotgun."

"Greeted every guest with smile and a bang," Drusilla said, clearly not too distraught by it. To be fair to her, the deaths happened years ago, and Buffy couldn't really bring herself to care too much either, other than what had happened. Drusilla frowned though, and Buffy was pretty sure she was trying to sympathize with something. "Such a waste of blood and ammunition."

"Morning shots should be espresso, not bullets," Buffy said, frowning. This sounded a little familiar, especially with the Hyperion being the hotel that Angel ran his investigation company out of in LA. It was a little strange that it was in Santa Monica, but that wasn't the strangest thing about it. She was almost certain whatever was in there could be dealt with. Easily. Blood drips down the walls and death begins to call. Ghost and ghouls, demons and spooks. A creature of the night fears not these things.

"Whatever it is, lass," Liam, who was not Angel and never would be, said, gesturing toward outside the club. "It's more than a fledgling should be handling alone. Even one such as you."

"Are you offering?" Buffy asked. The memory of Angel fighting by her side in Sunnydale came to mind, but she wasn't so sure that Liam would be up for this sort of thing or that she'd want him to. Liam had tried something, after all.

"Not me, no," Liam said. "I just think you should get some help of some sort. Demons like that are trouble. They think nothing of attacking Kindred like yourself. Going in unarmed would be suicide."

"Oh. This poof's a coward. You should tell him that, cutie. Though leave Dru behind," Spike commented. "At least Angelus would fight alongside you. Always good for a spot of violence, he was."

"Didn't you say you were going to give me a spear?" Buffy asked, ignoring her Spike hallucination. Drusilla had said that, but she was pretty sure… oh. That's what she meant. It wasn't a literal spear, of course. Liam was… "You're sending me to the one who watches…"

… That wasn't exactly what she'd meant to say, but it was close enough. It was almost as if she were channeling the voice directly. Drusilla shot a knowing look in Buffy's direction. Dru had called her cousin; they were of the same clan, kin, not merely Kindred. Blood surrounds us. Binds us. For blood we live. For blood we die. Far west is the price of the wind, not merely there for the ham.

"He who watches aspires to hunt," Drusilla said, her hands lightly running down Buffy's arm. "But with some words, he might change his prey."

"He's human," Liam said. "But he's apparently some expert on demonology. Nest has discreetly employed his services in the past, and his information has checked out for the most part."

"Not a ghoul?" Buffy asked, thinking of Mercurio and idly flicking the presence at the back of her mind reminding her of Cordelia. She'd have to make sure to make time to check on the girl later. Cordy should have been safe and alive now, but this Kindred stuff was all new to her. Ghouls didn't exactly exist in Sunnydale. More than he seems to Liam as well.

"That Mercurio bloke wasn't half-bad, even if he worked for Prince Pooferton the Magnificent. Weird that the poof here wants you to meet up with a pure human." Spike cocked his head, looking to Liam. "You know, calling him Captain Forehead would be an even worse insult to my sire's sire. And as much as I like to do that, only Angel deserves that moniker."

Buffy pointedly did not look at Spike, choosing to meet eyes with Liam instead. "I mean, this watchful guy. He's not a ghoul, just a normal human?"

"Mortal as mortals can be, Lass," Liam said, smiling at her, his fangs partially visible in the smile. Fancies himself a lady killer. Perhaps he should fear those that bite back.

"But knowledgeable. He can arm you for your hunt, cousin," Dru added. What is a Slayer without a Watcher?

Buffy shook her head.

"Hey, Slayer. You should just leave already and find this guy. The poofter here plans on drawing things out as much as possible, and you should probably just beat him up and leave." Spike switched to his game face, a grin widely playing itself out upon it. "And Dr—"

"Spike, my Spike, be quiet. I can feel the aura of pain you're causing my cousin. You can talk with her later," Drusilla said, glaring at what Buffy had thought was only a hallucination. Nobody else had been able to see him. Why was Dru any different? Did this have something to do with the cousin thing? It didn't matter all that much. A meeting of minds is the gift of Malkav. Neuroses shared are neuroses cared.

"Wait, you can see me, Dru? I thought that only the Slayer could and—"

"You heard her, Spike," Buffy said through gritted teeth. She needed some time in her own head to think about this. The presence of the blond vampire, even as a hallucination, definitely wasn't helping with that. "Get. I'll try to contact you if I need you later."

"All right, all right, I see when I'm not wanted." Spike shook his head, game face dropping to his more human one, and then he faded from Buffy's view. "But I'll be watching, Slayer."

Buffy glanced over at the Irish vampire sitting across from her and Dru, wondering how he might have felt about this. Instead he seemed to have found the bottom of the glass he had in hand very interesting. Not that there was anything other than ice inside, but he seemed to be focused on it.

"So," Buffy said, ignoring what just happened. "Where can I meet your contact?"

After getting the information on where Ang—Liam's human contact was staying, Buffy left the Asylum. There wasn't any point in doing anything more than finding this human tonight, as the sun would be rising in a few hours. As such, she'd need to see if this contact would be willing to meet her somewhere a little after sunset so that they could make the most out of it. She hadn't gotten a name for the contact, just that he was human, currently lived in a cheap motel room a few blocks from the beach, and that he was British.

Turns out Liam didn't have the name, and Drusilla, well, she was incapable of actually saying it. It must have been some sort of similar compulsion to her own, similar to the one she had when trying to say Mercurio's name out loud. The God of Messengers simply could not be named properly. Names are special, are binding.

Buffy shook her head as she approached the building. She was starting to get hungry. She could probably hold off on eating, but feeding felt so good. She didn't want to end up going to bed hungry that night… morning… whatever, so instead of going straight to the hotel where Liam's contact stayed, she started looking around for easy targets. Blood is life. Life is blood, and from the blood comes the sanctity of life.

There, down the alley nearby, she heard something. Footsteps. She lightly stepped into the alley, following the source. The door from one of the buildings surrounding the alleyway had been opened, and a man dressed in a scullery outfit carried bags and bags of trash out from the restaurant, placing them in the dumpster nearby. He looked to be Hispanic, and Buffy had the idle thought about how she always loved Mexican food before admonishing herself for making that assumption.

He honestly might not even have been Mexican, but what he was… was her supper. It was trivial to approach him unseen, and when her fangs dug into the man's neck, she started to drain him directly. The moment that sweet nectar hit her lips, she was in ecstasy. He'd even been better than the gang-bangers she'd drained dry at the beach house. The man was faithful to his wife, and his kids were well off. He worked the restaurant because he had a dream to be a chef one day, and he would work his way up through the ranks so that he could do so. He wanted to learn everything he could while he was there, and he was just—

Buffy didn't even feel the blow that hit her off of the man, sending her sprawling into the dumpster, but the blood she'd drained was already helping to push the pellets from the shotgun blast out of her skin. She turned toward the wielder of the gun, and instinctively she fell into a fighting stance, resisting the urge to hiss and bare her fangs at her assailant.

He was taller than her, standing at just above six feet tall. He had his brown hair cut short, but the beginnings of a five-o-clock shadow darkened his light-skinned face some. He wore a brown leather jacket over a dark collared shirt with dark blue jeans and a pair of what probably were steel-toed boots. In his hands was a long-barreled shotgun leveled at her.

"The next shot is going for your head, vampire," the man said, echoes of a British accent shining through. If it weren't for the fact that the man was leveling a gun at her, Buffy would be wanting to laugh out loud. The One Who Watches could have meant so much, and Buffy was almost sure that it would mean someone specific. Unfortunately, he wasn't exactly the one that she was expecting. Still, this could be good. She didn't really feel any desire to fight this man, especially not to the death, but she would if she had to. Instead, she needed to talk to him.

After all, she knew the guy. Price of the wind, indeed.

"Hello, Wesley."
 
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Well, this is fun. I wonder how much has changed for him? Everyone seems a little twisted here.

Also I really hope Buffy gets to see her friends again, and I do wonder a little how the parent thing is going to be resolved...
 
Well, this is fun. I wonder how much has changed for him? Everyone seems a little twisted here.

Also I really hope Buffy gets to see her friends again, and I do wonder a little how the parent thing is going to be resolved...

Well, Xander and Willow, if they appear, will have their own options on what they're doing.

Parents... well... :drevil:

Well, given that Gehenna's right around the corner, perhaps Buffy will end up becoming a living human again?

I'm not entirely sure how I want to handle Gehenna.
 
Oh good. The voices agreed with her. That obviously meant she was on the right path here.

I do appreciate Buffy being sarcastic about her own madness. It's nice she has that perspective.
No, this Dru had called her cousin.

And don't you just get on well?

"It found a host, and a shotgun."

"Greeted every guest with smile and a bang," Drusilla said, clearly not too distraught by it. To be fair to her, the deaths happened years ago, and Buffy couldn't really bring herself to care too much either, other than what had happened. Drusilla frowned, though, and Buffy was pretty sure she was trying to sympathize with something. "Such a waste of blood and ammunition."

"Morning shots should be espresso, not bullets,"

Malk banter is best banter.

. Far west is the price of the wind

Now this is a nice one. Genuinely dismissed it as random meaningless Malk madness but in retrospect it's completely obvious. Which is exactly what you want for Malkavian extrapossible knowledge/prophecy. For it to be obvious in retrospect but very easy to miss beforehand.

Buffy glanced over at the Irish vampire sitting across from her and Dru, wondering how he might have felt about this. Instead he seemed to have found the bottom of the glass he had in hand very interesting. Not that there was anything other than ice inside, but he seemed to be focused on it.

SNRK.

Don't acknowledge the crazy, don't look at the crazies...

I'm not entirely sure how I want to handle Gehenna.

Could just ignore it. Gehenna ended up being horrendously disappointing and worthless. As something on the distant horizon it works. But when it's close up you can see the holes in the stitching, and the scenery? Why it's just cardboard after all, painted on one side and no depth.

...sorry, went a bit Malk there.
 
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