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[X] Magnus
That line about 'man or Primarch' could not have been more obviously targeted. You need to know what your brother intends, and perhaps he needs your support and counsel in turn.
 
While there's little practical difference between "spirits do not exist" and "do not interact with spirits" the two statements are mutually exclusive from a worldview/philosophical standpoint. The Mechanicus objecting to the edict on the grounds of their sovereignty helps somewhat to demonstrate one of those differences; the position of the Imperium up until this point was that machine-spirits didn't exist and that the Mechanicus was wrong, but it didn't actually prevent the Mechanicus from doing anything. Acknowledging them and declaring that using them makes you an enemy of the Emperor, though... that's going to cause problems.

And I have to agree, the Emperor isn't going to purge the Mechanicus any time soon; it would simply be too costly to the Imperium. In OTL it seemed to me that the Emperor's plan was to subvert the Machine Cult rather than destroy it outright, reintroduce the concept of science and progress. The novel Mechanicum notes that the tech-priest responsible for the Akashic Reader project was being funded by Emps directly, iirc? Though it's been years since I read it, I could be wrong.

The thing is the Machine Cult already has a deal with the Big Man so they can keep right on working with Machine Spirits as they want because they fall under the whole unless I say they are okay part of the order he just gave.
 
In regards to the Emperor just punchsploding Lorgar into giblets right there in the council, per The First Heretic the Emperor was at one point considering purging the Seventeenth Primarch and his Legion.

And he (per Magnus the Red) quietly discussed the matter with the other Primarchs, sought their opinion on the matter. Demonstrating to them all that he VALUED their opinion and that he would not just up and arbitrarily execute someone of their station, even a Primarch who is held in contempt by most of his peers and is doing an absolute shambles of a job is still a Primarch of the Imperium and has privileges that others don't get.

Also it's worth considering just how far Canon Magnus had to go to get the boot applied to him.

He didn't just violate the Edict of Nikea (like the World Eaters, Night Lords, Alpha Legion and White Scars) he violated in the most flagrant manner possible that could not be ignored or swept under the rug, thousands of not millions dead on Terra itself and a gate to Hell ripped open under the Emperor's palace.

And Russ' original orders were still to bring him in alive, it didn't become a kill mission until Fallen Horus got involved.
 
By this logic the Emperor shouldn't have made the Primarchs at all.

All societies ultimately have to play the game of politics, which is depressingly consistent across political systems. And in this particular case, you're thinking of going after one of the greatest generals of your entire empire*, who is related to your OTHER best generals. You do NOT kill him, least of all in so public a setting. (There's also the issue that the primarchs are essentially immortal demigods and killing one of them hurts the authority of the remaining loyal sons)

*Yeah I said earlier Lorgar was bad at conquering but 1) I meant he's bad *for a primarch* which is still pretty good, and 2) that changed after Monarchia.

1) Russ tried to chastise Angron for the Butcher's Nails but unfortunately for Russ Angron had long since lost any cognitive function he once had. To the extent Lorgar had to explain to him that "no, Angron, you lost the fight against him". It's stated many times that the Butcher's nails are killing Angron, with only luck and his psykers delaying his death, to the extent that even mortal officers note he's degenerating into a maddened beast. Lorgar is only able to save his life through a demonic ascension.

2) Entire systems surrendered at the mere *suggestion* that the Night Lords might be coming. They also tended to record their torture sessions and continue broadcasting them even after they'd left iirc.

But the point I'm getting at is that the Night Lords conquered systems with extremely few casualties, relative to their peers. If you only care about humanity as a collective (which seems to be one of the Emperor's few consistent character traits) then this seems a good deal. You lose maybe a dozen astartes, a couple thousand humans, and you gain entire systems at a time.

I agree. By the logic of the tyrant, the Emperor shouldn't have made the Primarchs at all.

He created a host of supersoldiers who were genetically conditioned for loyalty to their gene-fathers. He then gave the Primarchs control of their Legions and set them loose to conquer worlds without any real supervision. This is a fantastic way to produces armies whose first loyalty is to their generals, not the ideals of the Imperial Truth or the Emperor.

Why are your generals encouraged to think of each other as brothers? Why don't you have spies and political officers watching their every word? Why are they permitted to take initiative and build close bonds with their subordinates? Why did you give power to superhuman generals, rather than expendable mortals who can be shot and replaced at a moment's notice?

Stalin-as-Emperor would never make Primarchs. He wouldn't even make Space Marines.

The Emperor shouldn't have made the Primarchs. But if he was going to make the Primarchs, then he needed to keep them happy. He would have to manage them like Horus, who is Everybody's Friend. Or almost everybody, since Corax exists. Still, if the Emperor was as close with his Primarchs as Horus is, he wouldn't have as much reason reason to fear rebellion.

If you want to run a proper despotism, then you have to run a proper despotism. If you want to run a loose warlord confederation based on personal relationships, then you have to develop those personal relationships. The Emperor has chosen neither to cut the tall poppies nor to befriend them. This is the worst of both worlds.

Leaving aside any questions of morality, the practical problem with the Night Lords is not that they're an army of monsters who love nothing more than inflicting terror and agony. It's that they have absolutely no reason to be loyal to the Imperium.

As the Great Crusade draws to a close, the Emperor has used the Astartes to solve the "problems" created by independent human worlds and living aliens. He has replaced them with a larger problem, the existence of twenty Legions whose loyalty is to their warlords and not the Emperor.

Five minutes' study of Roman history can tell you how this story ends. And the Romans are hardly unique. Armies have been raising generals upon their shields for as long as there have been armies and generals. There are plenty of imperfect solutions to this problem, but as far as I can tell the Emperor has adopted precisely none of them.

You are seriously underestimating the amount of attention even tyrants have to pay to their militaries and their military leaders. Off the top of my head, look at the 1999 Niger coup d'etat for an example of a dictator getting shot by his own Presidential Guard (probably, anyway, things are a bit unclear)—dictators are generally extremely aware that their power comes from the barrel of a gun and that they need to keep their guns on-side.

Like, let's say Big E purges... let's say Magnus, Angron, Lorgar and Fulgrim here — aside from Angron's Chainbreakers, these are all fairly weak Legions by the numbers.

Do you think a single one of those Legions are going to quietly sit down and accept the extrajudicial execution of their Primarchs? Hell, do you think all of the other Primarchs are going to do that? They might be mostly weak Legions, but that's still four rogue Space Marine Legions. Five, if you consider that the Night Lords have been a rogue state for a while. That's hundreds and hundreds if not thousands of systems, billions if not trillions of personnel, all now fighting you, specifically. Hell, that's half the forces of the Horus Heresy, even without considering the Primarchs like Corax or Jaghatai Khan that might join forces with them on principle; or opportunists like Guilliman who might suddenly find the Emperor's rule to chafe a great deal, or hell even Rogal Dorn, who values the law extremely highly.

It wouldn't be a purge, but rather a true civil war, which is something no sane tyrant wants.

I don't understand what you're saying. Tyrants purge their generals because their generals are important and dangerous, not because they're insignificant.

A tyrant who cannot replace a defiant general is usually not a tyrant who is long for this world. Rulers have been fearful of insolent and overmighty vassals since we left the hunter-gatherer period, and for good reason.

Most of the time, your rebellious general will make a great show of loyalty until he buries the knife in your back. Lorgar has been kind enough to warn the Emperor of his disloyalty, which means that the Emperor has the advantage of doing something about it. The worst thing you can do is wait around for your general to gather his forces and move against you on his terms.

Fulgrim is a True Believer, so no need to purge him. Magnus can be placed under courteous house arrest. Angron and Lorgar need to die.

You can fight your disloyal Primarchs now, or you can fight them later, when they've had more time to gather allies. When they can fight on their terms, with the advantage of surprise. You stand in the center of your power, and the Primarchs do not have their Legions here. Kill them for their defiance, and show the rest of your generals the price of disloyalty.

A civil war is inevitable at this point, so it's best to fight on your terms. Fortunately, the Emperor is bad at this.

Edit:

In regards to the Emperor just punchsploding Lorgar into giblets right there in the council, per The First Heretic the Emperor was at one point considering purging the Seventeenth Primarch and his Legion.

And he (per Magnus the Red) quietly discussed the matter with the other Primarchs, sought their opinion on the matter. Demonstrating to them all that he VALUED their opinion and that he would not just up and arbitrarily execute someone of their station, even a Primarch who is held in contempt by most of his peers and is doing an absolute shambles of a job is still a Primarch of the Imperium and has privileges that others don't get.

Also it's worth considering just how far Canon Magnus had to go to get the boot applied to him.

He didn't just violate the Edict of Nikea (like the World Eaters, Night Lords, Alpha Legion and White Scars) he violated in the most flagrant manner possible that could not be ignored or swept under the rug, thousands of not millions dead on Terra itself and a gate to Hell ripped open under the Emperor's palace.

And Russ' original orders were still to bring him in alive, it didn't become a kill mission until Fallen Horus got involved.

Yes, but this isn't canon.

In this story, the Emperor is very clearly a tyrant and a monster. An effective tyrant does not tolerate defiance in the heart of his power, especially from an unreliable subordinate who seems determined to waste his second chance. An effective tyrant would have listened to Angron during their first meeting, when Angron named him High Rider and promised to kill him, and he would have responded by killing Angron immediately.

If you read about tyrants getting overthrown in a coup, they're usually backstabbed by a Trusted Lieutenant who said all the right things until they put a knife in their master's back. This is because people who openly defy a tyrant usually don't live long enough to overthrow anyone.
 
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I agree. By the logic of the tyrant, the Emperor shouldn't have made the Primarchs at all.

He created a host of supersoldiers who were genetically conditioned for loyalty to their gene-fathers. He then gave the Primarchs control of their Legions and set them loose to conquer worlds without any real supervision. This is a fantastic way to produces armies whose first loyalty is to their generals, not the ideals of the Imperial Truth or the Emperor.

Why are your generals encouraged to think of each other as brothers? Why don't you have spies and political officers watching their every word? Why are they permitted to take initiative and build close bonds with their subordinates? Why did you give power to superhuman generals, rather than expendable mortals who can be shot and replaced at a moment's notice?

Stalin-as-Emperor would never make Primarchs. He wouldn't even make Space Marines.

The Emperor shouldn't have made the Primarchs. But if he was going to make the Primarchs, then he needed to keep them happy. He would have to manage them like Horus, who is Everybody's Friend. Or almost everybody, since Corax exists. Still, if the Emperor was as close with his Primarchs as Horus is, he wouldn't have as much reason reason to fear rebellion.

If you want to run a proper despotism, then you have to run a proper despotism. If you want to run a loose warlord confederation based on personal relationships, then you have to develop those personal relationships. The Emperor has chosen neither to cut the tall poppies nor to befriend them. This is the worst of both worlds.
... wait, so... you say he's not following the logic of a despot... but you're still judging him based on the logic of a despot?
 
... wait, so... you say he's not following the logic of a despot... but you're still judging him based on the logic of a despot?

The Emperor is a despot, but he's not using the logic of his profession. He's phoning it in. The Emperor is like a teacher who really doesn't care about his students at all and spends all of his time and effort writing research papers. But he won't let someone else just take over the class completely, so he keeps intervening to make things worse because he's not good at this and won't make an effort to become better.
 
The thing is, the Emperor had Horus, who he saw as a son and everyone else looked up to. Horus falling was so completely out of left field that the canon story barely even tries to justify it and instead handwaves the whole process.
 
The Emperor is a despot, but he's not using the logic of his profession. He's phoning it in. The Emperor is like a teacher who really doesn't care about his students at all and spends all of his time and effort writing research papers. But he won't let someone else just take over the class completely, so he keeps intervening to make things worse because he's not good at this and won't make an effort to become better.

I mean... this discussion got started because the Emperor didn't blow Lorgar up in the middle of the Council. That's not despot logic outside of very simplistic supervillains.

The thing is, the Emperor had Horus, who he saw as a son and everyone else looked up to. Horus falling was so completely out of left field that the canon story barely even tries to justify it and instead handwaves the whole process.

It feels like a handwave now because it was done in 3 books when the Heresy series was planned to be much MUCH shorter than it ended up being. In canon they basically use magic to send him into hell and then also trick him with a vision of the future that becomes the canon timeline.
 
I mean... this discussion got started because the Emperor didn't blow Lorgar up in the middle of the Council. That's not despot logic outside of very simplistic supervillains.



It feels like a handwave now because it was done in 3 books when the Heresy series was planned to be much MUCH shorter than it ended up being. In canon they basically use magic to send him into hell and then also trick him with a vision of the future that becomes the canon timeline.
I've seen this argument before and it doesn't make sense; Horus' fall does not work if you assume 1 book or 3 books or 100 books. It's just "he had a bad dream and there were snake ladies." There's no real oomph there for such a world shaking event, nothing to even hang a metaphor on.
 
I mean... this discussion got started because the Emperor didn't blow Lorgar up in the middle of the Council. That's not despot logic outside of very simplistic supervillains.

It feels like a handwave now because it was done in 3 books when the Heresy series was planned to be much MUCH shorter than it ended up being. In canon they basically use magic to send him into hell and then also trick him with a vision of the future that becomes the canon timeline.

We're seeing the result of a long process of failures.

The Emperor could have just let Lorgar worship him. He accommodates the Mechanicus, and he could do the same for Lorgar.

The Emperor could have stripped Lorgar of his command until such a time as he was convinced of Lorgar's loyalty. He could do that right now, in fact.

The Emperor could have methodically cultivated better relationships with his sons, who are also generals commanding vast armies of supersoldiers loyal to them.

The Emperor could have not created Primarchs at all, or not placed the Primarchs in command of their Legions, or only placed them in command once he was confident of their loyalty.

I guarantee you that any general who openly defied Genghis Khan in front of his peers was going to become a corpse. A marshal who laughed at Stalin was going straight to the torture chambers. Despots generally do not tolerate open mockery, and Lorgar was smiling as he tore apart the Imperial Truth. Even if most of the mortals didn't understand what was going on, I guarantee that all of the Primarchs did.

You don't have to be a supervillain to understand that you are a Big Warlord. The Imperium has no real institutional legitimacy. The system is built on the Word of the Big Man, and Lorgar has just denied that Word. Instead of contradicting himself in front of hundreds of witnesses, crippling the Imperial Truth, the Emperor could have killed Lorgar. Or arrested Lorgar. Or done any number of things that would be better than throwing out a new, contradictory set of orders and disappearing.

Edit: QM, please let us know if this is a derail.

I've seen this argument before and it doesn't make sense; Horus' fall does not work if you assume 1 book or 3 books or 100 books. It's just "he had a bad dream and there were snake ladies." There's no real oomph there for such a world shaking event, nothing to even hang a metaphor on.

"Prince turns on his royal father for power" is a story as old as royalty. I don't see any reason for grand, complicated explanations when there is a brutally clear alternative. The Emperor loved Horus as a son; that does not guarantee that Horus would always love the Emperor as a father.
 
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"Prince turns on his royal father for power" is a story as old as royalty. I don't see any reason for grand, complicated explanations when there is a brutally clear alternative. The Emperor loved Horus as a son; that does not guarantee that Horus would always love the Emperor as a father.
Yes, a tale old as time itself. But not the tale we got!
 
I've seen this argument before and it doesn't make sense; Horus' fall does not work if you assume 1 book or 3 books or 100 books. It's just "he had a bad dream and there were snake ladies." There's no real oomph there for such a world shaking event, nothing to even hang a metaphor on.
Horus' fall happens too quickly imo but the motives behind it make plenty of sense.
-Horus is overwhelmed by the duties of Warmaster that he never wanted
-He just got off of a massive failure with the Interex that he blames himself for, and he was using to prove he was as good as or better than the Emperor
-Horus is nearly killed by an Anatheme and put into extreme near-death agony
-Horus even cries out for his father, wondering why he's been abandoned.
-Chaos bullshittery gets into his head and starts corrupting him.
-Magnus does a Magnus and says exactly the wrong thing at the worst possible time
-Horus is horrified by the future he thinks the Emperor wants to build, which seems so very much against what Horus and his brothers have been fighting for (keep in mind that at this point in time the Imperium is poised to conquer the galaxy in its entirety)
-There are no statues of him or the traitor primarchs. (We know why, but Horus doesn't) Making his pride and his glories meaningless.

The issue isn't the line of logic itself; the issue is that he goes from "i will make the Emperor stand down, because I can convince him" to "I have banners with 8 pointed stars made of human skin" way too damn fast.

We're seeing the result of a long process of failures.

The Emperor could have just let Lorgar worship him. He accommodates the Mechanicus, and he could do the same for Lorgar.

The Emperor could have stripped Lorgar of his command until such a time as he was convinced of Lorgar's loyalty. He could do that right now, in fact.

The Emperor could have methodically cultivated better relationships with his sons, who are also generals commanding vast armies of supersoldiers loyal to them.

The Emperor could have not created Primarchs at all, or not placed the Primarchs in command of their Legions, or only placed them in command once he was confident of their loyalty.

I guarantee you that any general who openly defied Genghis Khan in front of his peers was going to become a corpse. A marshal who laughed at Stalin was going straight to the torture chambers. Despots generally do not tolerate open mockery, and Lorgar was smiling as he tore apart the Imperial Truth. Even if most of the mortals didn't understand what was going on, I guarantee that all of the Primarchs did.

You don't have to be a supervillain to understand that you are a Big Warlord. The Imperium has no real institutional legitimacy. The system is built on the Word of the Big Man, and Lorgar has just denied that Word. Instead of contradicting himself in front of hundreds of witnesses, crippling the Imperial Truth, the Emperor could have killed Lorgar. Or arrested Lorgar. Or done any number of things that would be better than throwing out a new, contradictory set of orders and disappearing.
The Emperor only chastised Lorgar after he wasted his time for over a century and was openly making the worlds he DID take non-compliant. He accomodates the Mechanicus because he has to or his armies have no weapons or tech and/or have to fight an actual civil war.

The Emperor sent Custodes to keep an eye on Lorgar. They don't do much in the OTL but again I attribute that to poor writing rather than a mistake on the Emperor's part.

The Emperor spent a great deal of time out on campaign with his sons, and made sure the one they all liked and that was his closest son (Horus) was the one in charge of them. Angron in this continuity isn't loyal to the Emperor personally but he still fights his wars. That's all Emps really needs or cares about.

The Emperor's original intent with the primarchs was to raise them all on Terra as his sons, ensuring the exact sort of loyalty through bonds you're suggesting he should've done. He also brought most of the primarchs to Terra to learn from him directly before he gave them their legions.

To those examples, since you brought up the Mafia, I offer counterexamples: the Valentine Massacre. Executions, especially public ones, do not engender loyalty in those who remain, nor are they PR boosts. The fall of the Tsar also demonstrated the problem with having elements of the army turn against you. And while Lorgar may have been smiling, he gave his takedown of the Imperial Truth as a loyal son who is concerned for the Imperium, which is what everyone who isn't a primarch heard. And the primarchs are fully aware of their special status in the Imperium; that goes out the window, so does a lot of their loyalty. This would push other primarchs who might still be loyal to the Emperor further away.

Whether or not the Imperium has actual legitimacy is irrelevant; the appearance of legitimacy is all a government/ruler really needs. And arresting or vaporizing Lorgar for bringing up the fact that he encountered an enemy of the Imperium that seems to contradict a central guiding tenant of the Imperium's philosophy is not going to look good no matter how you spin it. And that's without taking into account that Lorgar has other primarchs on his side.

You keep saying that he had better options and I could believe that but the alternatives you're offering are just worse >.> It's like Big E wrote a letter of complaint about the noise in the apartment upstairs and you're saying he should've tossed a grenade in instead. Yeah, the letter probably isn't gonna do any good but it's less terrible than a grenade.
 
There's a lot of things the Emperor could do for stability's sake but didn't, as best we can tell, in order to get his Any% Galactic Conquest PB as low as possible by leaning on Horus and Malcador's ability to keep things from exploding. Sadly, he didn't check Horus' status screen for a few decades and missed the morale maluses that were stacking up to ruin his gold split.

Nuking Lorgar right now might, maybe, work to keep later issues from cropping up. But it'd definitely be messy and fuck up his pace so it's not an option.
 
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Horus' fall happens too quickly imo but the motives behind it make plenty of sense.
-Horus is overwhelmed by the duties of Warmaster that he never wanted
-He just got off of a massive failure with the Interex that he blames himself for, and he was using to prove he was as good as or better than the Emperor
Also the blatant pillaging of the frontier by the proto-administratum was souring Horus on the Imperium fast.
 
If your lieutenant is defying you in public, you need to deal with your lieutenant. This is true whether you are a Mob boss or a warlord king. Your authority rests on "respect" derived from fear; people do not cross you because you will fuck them up.

Lorgar crossed you, so it's time to fuck him up.

Chen turns to his friend Wu Guang and asks "What's the penalty for being late?"

"Death," says Wu.

"And what's the penalty for rebellion?"

"Death," says Wu.

"Well then…" says Chen Sheng.
 
The Emperor only chastised Lorgar after he wasted his time for over a century and was openly making the worlds he DID take non-compliant. He accomodates the Mechanicus because he has to or his armies have no weapons or tech and/or have to fight an actual civil war.

The Emperor sent Custodes to keep an eye on Lorgar. They don't do much in the OTL but again I attribute that to poor writing rather than a mistake on the Emperor's part.

The Emperor spent a great deal of time out on campaign with his sons, and made sure the one they all liked and that was his closest son (Horus) was the one in charge of them. Angron in this continuity isn't loyal to the Emperor personally but he still fights his wars. That's all Emps really needs or cares about.

The Emperor's original intent with the primarchs was to raise them all on Terra as his sons, ensuring the exact sort of loyalty through bonds you're suggesting he should've done. He also brought most of the primarchs to Terra to learn from him directly before he gave them their legions.

To those examples, since you brought up the Mafia, I offer counterexamples: the Valentine Massacre. Executions, especially public ones, do not engender loyalty in those who remain, nor are they PR boosts. The fall of the Tsar also demonstrated the problem with having elements of the army turn against you. And while Lorgar may have been smiling, he gave his takedown of the Imperial Truth as a loyal son who is concerned for the Imperium, which is what everyone who isn't a primarch heard. And the primarchs are fully aware of their special status in the Imperium; that goes out the window, so does a lot of their loyalty. This would push other primarchs who might still be loyal to the Emperor further away.

Whether or not the Imperium has actual legitimacy is irrelevant; the appearance of legitimacy is all a government/ruler really needs. And arresting or vaporizing Lorgar for bringing up the fact that he encountered an enemy of the Imperium that seems to contradict a central guiding tenant of the Imperium's philosophy is not going to look good no matter how you spin it. And that's without taking into account that Lorgar has other primarchs on his side.

You keep saying that he had better options and I could believe that but the alternatives you're offering are just worse >.> It's like Big E wrote a letter of complaint about the noise in the apartment upstairs and you're saying he should've tossed a grenade in instead. Yeah, the letter probably isn't gonna do any good but it's less terrible than a grenade.

If the Emperor believed that Lorgar deserved to be chastised, he should also believe that Lorgar no longer belongs in charge of a giant army of supersoldiers. "Removed from command" is the most basic and obvious way to deal with an unreliable general who is disobeying your orders.

The Custodes aren't a bad idea, but the best solution to having a general you don't trust is to have that person no longer be your general.

Two minutes after we met the Emperor, Angron wanted to murder him. He could have made an effort to avoid this, but he absolutely didn't. Angron hates the Emperor and Lorgar hates the Emperor and Vulkan is not a fan and Corvus despises him.

The Emperor spent time with his sons on campaign, but it's not clear whether that was actually helping. "My generals are loyal to my head general but not to me" is the kind of thing that would ring alarm bells in the head of pretty much every Roman Emperor. I'll excuse it because the Emperor has a genuine blind spot for Horus.

Horus did not raise all of the primarchs as children, but Horus is immensely popular with the primarchs. The issue here is not just that the Emperor lacked time with the Primarchs; it's that he wasn't willing to put in any effort. If he really wanted to, he could just sit down with Lorgar and explain what the Chaos Gods are and why he's so obsessed with getting rid of religion.

Of course, it's possible that he wanted to keep the Primarchs from knowing about Chaos. This failed when Chaos contacted at least two of his Primarchs. Maybe if he'd bothered to warn them in advance, this would be less of a problem.

Stalin purged everyone he distrusted and died of natural causes. It's certainly possible for purges to backfire, but there are plenty of tyrants who ruled through terror and died in bed. Of course, there are plenty of tyrants who died in front of a firing squad, too. But if you want to be an autocrat who Must Be Obeyed, you have to make examples out of the people who don't obey you.

Primarchs enjoy special status. If Primarchs come to believe that special status permits them to blow up Imperial policy without consequences, very bad things will follow. At an absolute minimum, Lorgar needed to be removed from command. You could even "promote" him to work with you on defending the Imperium from these warp beings he calls "spirits". It would make for a useful compromise, as you would spare Lorgar's life but also sever him from his Legion.

There's a lot of things the Emperor could do for stability's sake but didn't, as best we can tell, in order to get his Any% Galactic Conquest PB as low as possible by leaning on Horus and Malcador's ability to keep things from exploding. Sadly, he didn't check Horus' status screen for a few decades and missed the morale maluses that were stacking up to ruin his gold split.

Nuking Lorgar right now might, maybe, work to keep later issues from cropping up. But it'd definitely be messy and fuck up his pace so it's not an option.

Is the Emperor a YouTube streamer going for a rapid completion run?

Jokes aside, it seems like there must be some kind of deadline. The sheer shoddiness of the Imperium would be absurd if there wasn't a reason for it.

Chen turns to his friend Wu Guang and asks "What's the penalty for being late?"

"Death," says Wu.

"And what's the penalty for rebellion?"

"Death," says Wu.

"Well then…" says Chen Sheng.

This isn't being late.

Sentencing people to death for lateness encourages rebellion, because sometimes people will be late by accident. No one decides to publicly blow up their tyrant's policy by accident. They certainly don't do it while smirking.

If a lieutenant screws up a job, the Mob boss may make a big show of forgiving him, to show how generous he is. If a lieutenant deliberately undermines the Mob boss's authority in front of all his other lieutenants, the Mob boss is going to reestablish his authority. With murder.

I don't think you get just how significant lese majeste is in a despotism like this. Many sins may be forgiven, but insulting the tyrant is not something that tyrants usually overlook. The system depends on "respect" driven by fear, and if the Big Man cannot avenge an insult then people will wonder if their grip is slipping.
 
The system depends on "respect" driven by fear, and if the Big Man cannot avenge an insult then people will wonder if their grip is slipping.

You think fear of death will make Angron fall in line? You think fear of death will make Magnus stand down? You think fear of death will make Guilliman reconsider his ambitions? The answer's no to all three. The same goes for other Primarchs. No one of them follows Emperor out of fear (with a few exceptions) - they all have their own causes and reasoning but fear is not one of them.

They will more likely to take Lorgar's execution as a sign that the old man lost it. That he's no longer a peak of Humanity who will unite their race to create a safe, powerful Empire among the stars or a loving, idealistic Father, but just an old, scared tyrant. And suddenly find out that their reasons for following the Emperor no longer apply.
 
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