Nowhere that I can find even after re-reading all the updates is there stated to be a "real and imminent threat of starvation" nor have we been ignoring the issue considering we're directly addressing the issue with this basic wage hike, and are spooling up food production with one stage done last turn with most likely two more on the way next turn at a minimum.
I don't know. Maybe the fact that food came up 4 times outside the farming action in this update? The fact that it was pointed out that the portion of the free devil population we have secured is missing an element weary of placing trust in any government authority, hinting that we are only providing for a majority of the population rather than all of it? The amount of boost our food production options we have this turn as votes?
Sort of gives the impression that it's an important and relevant subject that shouldn't be taken for granted as something we can ignore solution because you think the price will go up for some vague undefined reason, rather than go down as the economy recovers, artifacts become more available, and our only current buyer satisfies his artifact Quota.
Regardless of how much you say it's not a critical issue, -34 food is still terrible. -29 may be a marginal improvement, but it's still a pair or trio of dice less towards farms before we reach self efficiency, which I much prefer to trusting that the item we have will grow in value rather than decreasing.
Between certain payout that decreases dice and wealth expenditure in addressing food issues, and nebulous better payout down the line that may not even come before our wealth issues are resolved, if it comes at all, I'm obviously going with what's certain.
If we decide to keep the statue, will we be able to sell it in future turns in case we change our minds/encounter an emergency, or how will you handle this?
Yes we'll definitely be able to sell it. Whether the price goes up or down is a question, though given the economy improving means artifacts become more regular, I can only imagine the price goes down. Asmodeus isn't going to be in an artifact purchasing mood forever, or fresh from setbacks in getting his Army going in turn 1 and 2.
I still support keeping the statue in reserve rather than selling it/trading it for concessions, since the Seed should help to alleviate the situation enough that we can keep chipping away at the Food problem over the coming turns, but it's nonetheless a fair bit more critical than you try to make it sound
Indeed. we don't actually track all the devils, as some distrust government oversight, so there may be out of the way devils yet to enter our sphere of influence starving already. The seed barely alleviates the food crisis more than the farm, and the farm wasn't enough to negate a necessity in raising the basic wage the turn after we create it. 50% boost to how much of overall food production is worth more than some artifact we may never use and isn't guaranteed to retain it's current value, let alone grow more valuable.
Yeah no, the threat of starvation is very real and imminent so I don't see the point of holding onto this. Cutting a deal for food now increases our food production turn 4 by 50%, which will go a good ways into undercutting the Clans ability to maintain or further raise tolls.
Turn 4 production. Any further increases to food beyond our current farm, the seed, and potential Clan Belial deal, won't come into effect before turn 5.
Meaning none of what you've quoted is actually relevant to my point namely that we have been warned in simple terms that we are approaching the point where starvation may begin to approach as an issue meaning we're still two entire "checkpoints" away from starvation.
You having nothing confirming we are two entire check points away. This food issue completely blindsided us, and further developing issues such as magical tool shortages effecting clan and free devil food production and harvest efficiency could see the situation worsen before it gets better.
Your dismissing a ton of evidence for food being a rising and prevalent issue while fabricating a notion of some time related security blanket that makes the issue less critical, all to hold onto a relatively worthless artifact that may never be worth as much as it is now depending on how the coming turns go, let alone end up worth more.
[X] [Statue] Sell the artifact to Clan Belial
[X] [Seed] Plant the seed in our newly secured Farmland
[X] [Wage] Increase the Basic Wage to 1 Wealth/9 Labour
The Food situation continues to be massively awful. We should take every opportunity to chip away at it, lest we get mass starvation.
I don't know. Maybe the fact that food came up 4 times outside the farming action in this update? The fact that it was pointed out that the portion of the free devil population we have secured is missing an element weary of placing trust in any government authority, hinting that we are only providing for a majority of the population rather than all of it? The amount of boost our food production options we have this turn as votes?
The price of Food is rapidly rising, threatening to bring back the threat of starvation by eclipsing the payments of the Ministry and the lack of access to basic goods and services is threatening to hurt both the people and the fragile economy.
Either provide the extraordinary evidence required to directly override this direct assessment of the situation by the ministry or quote a more recent direct assessment provided by the ministry.
Sort of gives the impression that it's an important and relevant subject that shouldn't be taken for granted as something we can ignore solution because you think the price will go up for some vague undefined reason, rather than go down as the economy recovers, artifacts become more available, and our only current buyer satisfies his artifact Quota.
I want it held because it provides flexibility to address emergencies that we would not be able to address otherwise I do not care about its relative value.
Regardless of how much you say it's not a critical issue, -34 food is still terrible. -29 may be a marginal improvement, but it's still a pair or trio of dice less towards farms before we reach self efficiency, which I much prefer to trusting that the item we have will grow in value rather than decreasing.
Either you misread what I wrote or misinterpreted it because I said starvation is not imminent not that it is not important, critical, or whatever synonym you want to use which is a key difference. We both think it's critical but to my knowledge, the situation is not bad enough that we are incapable of addressing the food issue through normal food production actions, and there is therefore no real or imminent threat of starvation.
You having nothing confirming we are two entire check points away. This food issue completely blindsided us, and further developing issues such as magical tool shortages effecting clan and free devil food production and harvest efficiency could see the situation worsen before it gets better.
Your dismissing a ton of evidence for food being a rising and prevalent issue while fabricating a notion of some time related security blanket that makes the issue less critical, all to hold onto a relatively worthless artifact that may never be worth as much as it is now depending on how the coming turns go, let alone end up worth more.
I do it's literally right there on turn three, I posted a quote of it prior to you posting in the post you're quoting, I posted it above, and I'll post it again below for your convenience.
The price of Food is rapidly rising, threatening to bring back the threat of starvation by eclipsing the payments of the Ministry and the lack of access to basic goods and services is threatening to hurt both the people and the fragile economy.
And, no this issue didn't blindside us we were actually explicitly called out as having caught it early by a prior update along with the other issues we are also right now voting on resetting any progress towards this becoming an issue by raising the base wage and have plentiful options to cover our food dept with no observed increase in the food deficit so things are already past the point where they've gotten better.
I'm dismissing nothing I'm actually so far the only one to bring quoted evidence from an objective third party to the table on the overall situation instead of snipping small anecdotes from updates that I have gone out of my way to clearly show how they align with the aforementioned evaluation of the overall situation. I have fabricated nothing and your continuous over-reactions to everything in the quest and emotional arguments are becoming increasingly irritating.
[x] [Statue] Keep the statue for ourselves
[x] [Seed] Plant the seed in our newly secured Farmland
[x] [Wage] Increase the Basic Wage to 9 Wealth/Labour
Meaning none of what you've quoted is actually relevant to my point namely that we have been warned in simple terms that we are approaching the point where starvation may begin to approach as an issue meaning we're still two entire "checkpoints" away from starvation.
No, we're not "two entire 'checkpoints' (that you just pulled out of thin air for your own convenience) away from starvation", because anyone who doesn't receive UBI is already starving. And even for those with UBI it's starting to be insufficient for all their food-needs in some places, which means even some of those *with* UBI are likely starting to starve. Because when someone has trouble to consistently cover all their dietary and nutritional needs, they are starving.
And that's for this turn already; with rapidly rising prices the situation is going to worsen in the coming turns unless we act. That's the entire point behind the proposed Basic Wage increase after all; if we don't raise it, far more people with it will begin starving.
This also neglects that Basic Wage is called Basic Wage, and not "Basic Food Allowance" or anything like that; it's meant to cover all expenses of basic living. Which means if people are spending 100% of their Basic Wage on food, they're neglecting other important things, such as shelter or medical expenses.
This means that at best we're barely hovering over the razor's edge of widespread starvation, at worst we're starting to tip over it.
That might very well have been your intention, but it doesn't change the fact that the only reason everyone already receives Basic Wages is due to dumb luck via Secure Labor receiving two extremely high rolls in a row. If the rolls had been lower, anyone not receiving Basic Wages would - as the update pointed out - already be starving.
Which is why our Turn 4 plan should look somewhat like this:
[] Plan Turn Four
- [] Restart the Andras Gold Mine (0/200), 35 Wealth/Dice - 5 Dice and 175 Wealth
- [] Explore the remnants of a House of Lucifer (63/200), 20 Wealth/Dice (3 remaining) - 5 Dice and 100 Wealth
- [] Secure Farmlands Stage 3 (5/100), 15 Wealth/Dice {UG} - 4 Dice and 60 Wealth
Possibly even shift an additional die from the Explore action to the Farmland action; ensure that we're likely to complete two stages of that project, possibly even a third. We'll still be substantially short on Food, but it should at least prevent things from getting worse, and possibly even buy us some breathing room.
[x] [Statue] Keep the statue for ourselves
From what I can recall from reading DxD in high school, the Bael Clan is not someone whose political beliefs are in line with our own interests. My mistrust outweighs my want for food.
[x] [Seed] Plant the seed in our newly secured Farmland
We need food, what can I say.
[x] [Wage] Increase the Basic Wage to 9 Wealth/Labour
I don't think that this will help that much outside the short term. If anything, I suspect the added inflationary pressure will actually cause us problems long term. However, it might be enough to buy us time to complete the rest of the farms.
Why aren't you doing the Warding Paper action? Our economy is practically collapsing because we don't have enough Magical Tools, and Andras will only make matters worse. I'd also suggest throwing a die or two on looking for abandoned industries which could help us with that problem, along with our ConGoods shortage.
I have had it. I'm done I provided a direct quote showing exactly this and people can't even be bothered to read it. People won't even address my arguments we've gotten to the point where they just snip small portions of my posts and say "no".
I'd forgotten why I don't step foot out of a handful of quests and this is it. I'm just going to show myself out at this point have a good day and I hope things go well for you guys.
Either provide the extraordinary evidence required to directly override this direct assessment of the situation by the ministry or quote a more recent direct assessment provided by the ministry.
Ignoring how that's a start of turn assessment largely invalidated as the turn played out, specifically in the ministry concluding the wage needed to be raised or we'd risk a return to starvation conditions, very well then.
Rabidly rising, as in the situation will continue to grow worse as long as most of the Satans keep Jobbing and council maintains the highest rolls other than Beelzebub, allowing the Clans to leverage their control of food to everyone else's detriment.
[X] [Statue] Sell the artifact to Clan Belial
While some members of the clan prefer to have nothing to do with the hurtful artifact, others wish to aquire it as a sign of respect to their deceased ancestor. Lord Belial offers to slash the tolls at his border in exchange, giving us access to the production of his large fields for an affordable price.
[+5 Food(Counts as internally produce until the situation changes), -Artifact:Magic Eraser]
It was decided to have you help out in the Institutes program among the most impoverished Devils under their wing, who are often entirely reliant on the basic wage to even sustain a living. While this is a great improvement over the past, where they would have simply starved, your closer involvement supervising devils on the ground has shown you that not every problem is solved.
The greatest challenge lies in the existence of a "Shadow" population, devils who remain unregistered in the ministry's records. This may be due to their distrust of authority, fear stemming from past crimes, or other reasons. Reaching out to them would require substantial effort and place an additional strain on Basic Wage payments, but ignoring their plight would be unjust, echoing the injustices perpetrated by the Clan families.
Moreover, despite efforts to expand agriculture, the escalating cost of food is eroding the appeal of the Basic Wage. In certain locations, it may not even be sufficient to cover the recipient's food expenses. While many devils who are not directly employed by the Ministry supplement their income by working in the private sector, the scarcity and rationing of Magical Tools have dashed any hopes of economic recovery for this industry. Amberley and the Institute urge you to increase the amount distributed through the Basic Wage to prevent a return to a state of starvation.
Bleed over into other issues, representing that the food issue is already limiting the effectiveness of other actions we have taken, despite there being an entire untracked populations of devil's we aren't supporting, some of whom may already be on the verge of starvation, and the fact that starvation was already an issue at some point prior to the quest and that it is close to becoming an issue again if we cannot address it satisfactorily, with even the wage vote a stop gap at best.
Belial, not Bael. Different clans. We are already paying them a fortune for their food. This is us cutting a deal to bypass the usual market price and buy from them at a reasonable rate, not tying ourselves to them in some complex alliance.
Either provide the extraordinary evidence required to directly override this direct assessment of the situation by the ministry or quote a more recent direct assessment provided by the ministry.
I have had it. I'm done I provided a direct quote showing exactly this and people can't even be bothered to read it. People won't even address my arguments we've gotten to the point where they just snip small portions of my posts and say "no".
Amazing the things you can demand of others but complain about being asked of yourself. You quoted an out of date initial assessment from the update before last and ignored the myriad of problems arising in direct relation to the food issue and very generously thrown our way solutions, as well as how they demonstrate that it is more serious than that initial statement lead us to believe. Plan quests are developing situation. We spent a token effort on food, so there was token impact, and the situation worsened, requiring emergency increases to the basic wage just to ensure it could feed the Devils we are supporting, and QM pity reward manipulation to give us options to take sizeable chunks out of our food requirements without spending dice.
I'd forgotten why I don't step foot out of a handful of quests and this is it. I'm just going to show myself out at this point have a good day and I hope things go well for you guys.
Why aren't you doing the Warding Paper action? Our economy is practically collapsing because we don't have enough Magical Tools, and Andras will only make matters worse. I'd also suggest throwing a die or two on looking for abandoned industries which could help us with that problem, along with our ConGoods shortage.
Because the lack of Magical Tools basically comes third in our list of priorities.
First is Food, because without it people will start to starve, and the bad economic situation will worsen even further, as you yourself pointed out in your previous post.
Second is Wealth via the Andras mine and the explore/loot action, as we need resources to actually address the problems we're facing, and this turn's need to raise BI to prevent people from starving exacerbates our issues in this area. If we run out of Wealth, we're powerless to actually address any of the problems we're faced with.
Magical Tools come then in third, because they are important, but not quite as all-out urgent as the previous two.
Consumer Goods are then in fourth place; to some degree they're necessary, but their lack is not as immediately critical/threatening as the lack of food, for example.
We could perhaps divert a die or two from the Lucifer-exploration action to the Warding Papers action, to get started on that project, but spending effort and resources to look for other industries would be ill-advised at this point. We already have a number of projects available to address the issues we're facing; we're better off actually investing in them to improve the overall situation, rather than spend those resources looking for new options while the situation remains bad.
Because the lack of Magical Tools basically comes third in our list of priorities.
First is Food, because without it people will start to starve, and the bad economic situation will worsen even further, as you yourself pointed out in your previous post.
Second is Wealth via the Andras mine and the explore/loot action, as we need resources to actually address the problems we're facing, and this turn's need to raise BI to prevent people from starving exacerbates our issues in this area. If we run out of Wealth, we're powerless to actually address any of the problems we're faced with.
Magical Tools come then in third, because they are important, but not quite as all-out urgent as the previous two.
Consumer Goods are then in fourth place; to some degree they're necessary, but their lack is not as immediately critical/threatening as the lack of food, for example.
We could perhaps divert a die or two from the Lucifer-exploration action to the Warding Papers action, to get started on that project, but spending effort and resources to look for other industries would be ill-advised at this point. We already have a number of projects available to address the issues we're facing; we're better off actually investing in them to improve the overall situation, rather than spend those resources looking for new options while the situation remains bad.
See, what I don't get is, your placing food as our highest priority, but passing on an artifact trade worth equivalent of 125 progress on a farms action, for the vague Idea of a situation where it's bonus is applicable, or where the sale price goes up, when the opposite could happen instead. The points your making don't match votes your making. Magical tools are less critical than wealth, which is less critical than food, but your holding onto a single use magical artifact instead of trading for either. Please explain the sense in that.
We need food, and Fleurity tried for years without success. We are better off trying to find the source of the seed later on than trying and failing to replicate it. Plus we need food to badly. Honestly Devil's are likely already nearly starving given some of them are sufficiently anti government to refuse to join in and collect the basic wage. We really should be taking belial's deal and saving ourselves 2 or 3 dice on farms in the long run.
From what I can recall from reading DxD in high school, the Bael Clan is not someone whose political beliefs are in line with our own interests. My mistrust outweighs my want for food.
@Hunter531 Given that you have the clan mixed up, as I pointed out earlier, and we aren't having anything to do with Belial besides negotiate a discount on food where it's effectively as cheap as growing it ourselves, is there any chance you'll reconsider and vote in favor of selling to clan Belial?
See, what I don't get is, your placing food as our highest priority, but passing on an artifact trade worth equivalent of 125 progress on a farms action, for the vague Idea of a situation where it's bonus is applicable, or where the sale price goes up, when the opposite could happen instead. The points your making don't match votes your making. Magical tools are less critical than wealth, which is less critical than food, but your holding onto a single use magical artifact instead of trading for either. Please explain the sense in that.
You're trying to create a False Binary out of a situation that involves a fair bit of complexity and nuance. Food is currently my highest/most urgent priority, yes, but as my previous post should have made obvious, it's most emphatically not the only priority. Neglecting the Food crisis like Lagsalot basically wanted to is a bad idea, but over-focusing on the Food at the expense of the various other problems we're faced with can potentially be just as harmful to us.
As a direct example, the update notes how the scarcity of Magical Tools makes it difficult to keep our newly-created farmlands secure and productive, forcing us to adapt inferior stop-gap measures instead. As such, if we continue to neglect the Magical Tool shortage for too long, we could potentially see our progress in addressing the Food shortage reversed due to the farms being damaged or destroyed by wildlife, bandits, rivals, or what have you.
And this doesn't even touch upon unwritten but overarching issues such as the ongoing struggle for power and influence between the Free Devils, Satans, and Clans.
So, no; me not voting to sell the artifact doesn't contradict what I said in any way or form, it means that I'm trying to keep our overall situation in mind when I voted for whether to sell the artifact or keep it, in the same way I try to keep these things in mind when allocating dice and resources for the turn plans I propose or vote for, instead of simply voting to invest all 14 of our dice into the Farms action.
So, no; me not voting to sell the artifact doesn't contradict what I said in any way or form, it means that I'm trying to keep our overall situation in mind when I voted for whether to sell the artifact or keep it, in the same way I try to keep these things in mind when allocating dice and resources for the turn plans I propose or vote for, instead of simply voting to invest all 14 of our dice into the Farms action.
Fair enough, though honestly, given we accidentally completed two explorations instead of the one we were aiming for, I feel another one isn't quite a turn 4 priority. Honestly, I'd rather settle for 3 on exploring a clan holding (sabnock) and shift two to finishing Debaradia Quarry to get some per turn material coming in for when we can finally spare dice to finish Lilith.
Secure Farmlands Stage 1 (0/100), 15 Wealth/Dice {UG}
The rising cost of food cannot be allowed to continue and luckily the one thing the ministry doesn't lack is uncultivated land. With sweeps by the Underworld Guard and the establishment of a lightly warded perimeter we can establish relatively secure areas where Food can be grown.
[Upon Completion: +4 Food, -4 Labour, 5 identical Stages are available]
As a last ditch effort to convince anyone I can of the value of selling to Belial, I'll point out farms will cut off at a total of 20 food production, 26 with the seed. This still leaves us importing 18 food to cover the deficit without Belial. Further attempts to expand are likely to shoot up in dice, wealth, and labour requirements. Saving ourselves a good deal of trouble by trading a single use artifact for some permanent food income will likely save us a lot of trouble later.
Ignoring how that's a start of turn assessment largely invalidated as the turn played out, specifically in the ministry concluding the wage needed to be raised or we'd risk a return to starvation conditions, very well then.
I want everyone to keep in mind that pretty much all IC information comes from reports by your subordinates who are fallible and not perfect sources of truth.
Activists in the ground who are working with the poorest members of society and hear their existential fears about rising food prices everyday will have present their information in a different way than a new bureaucrat who is trying to understand the complex economy actually supplying and determining the price of that food.
I can say that only focusing on food the detriment of everything else or completly ignoring the situation won't be ideal, but where to fall in the middle is a decision the Voterbase will have to make.
But in the End the first goal of a quest is to be fun, so I ask that everyone please be respectful of each other and keep in mind that we are in the end still talking about a jumble of letters and numbers hammered into a rough approximation of a story.
But I do want to protest the characterisation of the artifacts as pity reward manipulation. Both of them have been randomly rolled from my table.
Belial offer to trade you food for the Magic Eraser because they know that you really want food and being able to sell their entire produce for a good price is still quite good.
The seed is an artifact that increases Food, just like there is an artifact that produces Magical Tools, there is the chance to get simple Wealth and you could get materials.
I didn't give you 50 extra Wealth because I though you really needed it either, if you run out of Wealth you'll get IC actions to raise more, wether that is borrowing, selling land or cutting costs.
Fair enough, though honestly, given we accidentally completed two explorations instead of the one we were aiming for, I feel another one isn't quite a turn 4 priority. Honestly, I'd rather settle for 3 on exploring a clan holding (sabnock) and shift two to finishing Debaradia Quarry to get some per turn material coming in for when we can finally spare dice to finish Lilith.
As a reminder; due to the rollover exploring a House or a Clan currently requires about the same amount of points in total. Unless Sabnock is guaranteed to offer us something we need in the near future, it might be better to go with a House simply because it might offer the better rewards in terms of Wealth, potential loot, etc. overall.
Somewhat torn about the Quarry; on one hand the various reconstruction-actions generally require a fair amount of Material, so it would be helpful to have a passive income that can start to build up over time, on the other hand we might not be able to get to that point soon, due to the current Food/Magic Tool/Goods crisises taking up the majority of our effort, and the Quarry itself cuts into our tiny remaining MT reserves.
I'm currently inclined to go for the Warding Paper to alleviate the MT shortage a bit, and allow us to open up the mines/quarries with less risk of problems.
Something like this:
[] Plan Turn Four
- [] Restart the Andras Gold Mine (0/200), 35 Wealth/Dice - 5 dice, 175W
- [] Explore the remnants of a House of Lucifer (63/200), 20 Wealth/Dice (3 remaining) - 3 dice, 60W
- [] Manufacture Warding Paper (0/200) - 2 dice, 60W
- [] Secure Farmlands Stage 3 (5/100), 15 Wealth/Dice {UG} - 4 dice, 60 W
In Turn 5 we should then be in a position to finish both Quarry and Warding Paper without too much trouble. Could potentially swap another die from House exploration to the Farmlands, and potentially finish 3 stages of the project instead of 2, though that might leave us in trouble if the exploration doesn't finish and we're short on Wealth.
As a last ditch effort to convince anyone I can of the value of selling to Belial, I'll point out farms will cut off at a total of 20 food production, 26 with the seed. This still leaves us importing 18 food to cover the deficit without Belial. Further attempts to expand are likely to shoot up in dice, wealth, and labour requirements. Saving ourselves a good deal of trouble by trading a single use artifact for some permanent food income will likely save us a lot of trouble later.
As a counter-point; while complete food autarky is certainly desirable, that is not quite on the same level of importance and urgency as preventing outright starvation. Between the farms and the Seed cutting the Food-deficit in half - which is quite achievable within the next 2 turns - starvation should be fully prevented, and while food prices would still be high, they shouldn't be outright ruinous any longer. At that point we can slow down on the Food-issue (though we'll want to keep working on it consistently), and instead re-focus more of our time and effort on other issues, such as the lack of Magical Tools or Consumer Goods.
Simply put, we don't outright *need* to sell the Artifact to deal with the food shortage, and keeping it for ourselves could open up possibilities for us in dealing with the other problems we have, act as a deterrent against any foul play by the Clan Council for example, or give us a longer-term advantage by potentially reverse-engineering its effect once we get the Dis institutes back up and running. Selling the Artifact would make dealing with the food shortage easier, yes, but it would also close off any other possibilities it might offer.
Right; for some reason I thought the penalty had already been included in the rolls.
If that's not the case, going after a clan would be the more realistic choice, yes.
Regarding the Warding Paper, I don't think it absolutely needs to be completed this turn, I'd just like to get started on it so we'll have an easier time completing it next turn, giving us more overall flexibility. But looking things over it might be better to wait and instead try to invest those resources into projects that stand a chance completing that turn. An additional die on the Farms to increase the chance of completing 3 stages instead of 2, or on the Exploration action to try and keep our resource levels from dipping too low.
There's also the question of reserving a die or two for new potential options that might crop up, like further expansions to the ministry.
On the flipside, we could consider dropping exploration in favor of taking a shot at finishing Warding Paper this turn, but the resulting cost could cause trouble with our finances for the turn afterwards.
@Hunter531 Given that you have the clan mixed up, as I pointed out earlier, and we aren't having anything to do with Belial besides negotiate a discount on food where it's effectively as cheap as growing it ourselves, is there any chance you'll reconsider and vote in favor of selling to clan Belial?
Actually, no. While I did get the connection from DxD wrong, Lord Bael's actions as defacto leader of the Clan Council don't exactly fill me with trust. He's very likely to be an enemy in the long term.
Actually, no. While I did get the connection from DxD wrong, Lord Bael's actions as defacto leader of the Clan Council don't exactly fill me with trust. He's very likely to be an enemy in the long term.
Bael doesn't get anything personally from this. Countering his efforts too extort free Devil's through tolls by bypassing his authority to cut deals with clan Belial directly seems like a move against him IMO, but whatever.
The artifact vote is currently in a draw, ill keep the vote open for another 12 hours if someone wants to be the tie breaker between selling it to the Belial clan or keeping it in reserve:
[X] [Seed] Plant the seed in our newly secured Farmland
[X] [Wage] Increase the Basic Wage to 1 Wealth/9 Labour
[X] [Statue] Keep the statue for ourselves
Turn 4 - We will survive
Available General Dice: 10
General Malus(Complete Inexperience): -10
All Actions with the {UG} tag will have a bonus of 15, representing the assistance of the Underworld Guard
Available Wealth: 540 (+53 Wealth/Turn)
Available Materials: 30
Economic Issues:
Labour: 145 (Basic Wage: 9 W/T for each 10 Labour; 16 W/T) (+10 Free Devil Integration)
Food: -33 {Mostly covered through Imports, Rapidly rising prices}
Consumer Goods: -20 {Partially covered through Imports, Rising prices}
Magical Tools: 2 {Rationed, 16 private Demand is suppressed, no Imports},
Cost per negative point of Magical Tools used by the Ministry: 50 Wealth/Turn(Currently: 0), Max negative points: 0
Current Situation
The majority of Free Devils maintain an optimistic outlook for the future, placing their trust in the Ministry's ability to address the imminent threats of starvation, economic collapse, and wealth depletion. They have embraced a mindset of being under siege once more, seeking ways to reduce consumption and substituting unconventional alternatives for scarce goods.
Satan Lucifer and the Clan Council continue to be locked in a political struggle to define their roles in ruling the Underworld.
The Underworld Guard has reached Satan Asmodeus' desired size and he has turned his attention towards drilling them to be the elite fighting force he wants them to be. The Ministry's various efforts to expand into and secure the Wilderness are seen as a welcome way of training with minimal risk.
Satan Leviathan has returned triumphant from her expedition to secure the Underworld's position in the World, delivering news of her successful endeavours. She has managed to secure audiences with most major powers, who, though cautious, have accepted the news of a newly established, more peaceful Underworld with cautious optimism.
Unfortunately, Lucifer had largely ignored diplomatic efforts, resulting in a regrettable outcome where the world perceives the Devil primarily as a fearsome army that once dared to challenge the mighty Angelic Host of Heaven. This not only breeds wariness toward interfering with our formidable war machine but also creates obstacles, as few are willing to make themselves enemies of Heaven, still widely regarded as the preeminent superpower.
Nevertheless, while Leviathan was unable to secure alliances or friendships with the world's prominent pantheons, her pursuit of amicable relations did bear fruit. The sole remaining Gate of Hell had been redirected from Europe in a desperate manoeuvre following the demise of the former Satan and the failed assault on Heaven, now connecting to a large island off the African coast.
Through skillful negotiation, Satan Leviathan brokered a trade agreement with a local God-King on the other side of the gate known as Andrianerinerina, establishing an exchange of unique food specialties and a diverse supply of consumer goods.
[+1 Food, +2 Consumer Goods]
Although this deal holds promise, and the Gate's placement within our territory presents potential opportunities for profit, the strain it places on our infrastructure, particularly the Morningstar Road, continues to worsen. Some voices now question the Ministry's ability to sustain the necessary infrastructure for the entire Underworld, claiming that Clan oversight would ensure that trade runs smoothly.
Satan Beelzebub recently unveiled his latest creation, the Long-Range Flight Suit, to the public in a grand showcase held in the prestigious Grand Hall of Lilith. He emphasized the unfortunate reality that, despite having cast off the yoke of the satans, the devil population has grown increasingly distant from one another. However, he proclaimed that his latest innovation aims to alleviate some of these issues.
The Long-Range Flight Suit is specifically designed to enhance the natural Devil ability of flight, allowing the average devil to fly for much longer periods of time. It achieves this through a combination of fixed structures that strengthen the wings, ingenious methods of recycling energy back into the flight spells, and a diverse array of small runic arrays and wards that reduce the overall cost incurred by the user. The only discomfort experienced by the user is due to the suit's rigidity, and it's not recommended for combat situations as it may result in damage to the construction.
To demonstrate the effectiveness of the invention, one of Lord Baels' servants traveled to Bael city wearing the new Flight suit, managing to reach the city and return in an astonishingly short time. As a grand gesture of generosity, Satan Beelzebub announced that the servant would be allowed to keep the flight suit, making her the fastest messenger for sending messages and light goods across the underworld.
Concluding his address, Satan Beelzebub highlighted the historical significance of Lilith City, extolling the beauty of its reconstructed boulevards and expressing unwavering confidence that its prestigious universities would soon be restored, continuing their vital role in advancing Devilkind.
The Institute is reorganising, taking advantage of finally having a bit of a breather without direct attacks, though the precarious state of the economy still worries them. Amberley hopes to be able to take the fight to the Clans soon, taking revenge for the attacks and extortion aimed at all Free Devils.
Department of Extraction (4 Dice, max 4 General Dice, Extraction Malus: -5)
-> The department of Extraction has determined the expected effect of restarting the Gold Mine
Restart the Andras Gold Mine (0/200), 35 Wealth/Dice
The Andras Clan fell early in the Great War, leaving their gold mine abandoned. However, the mine still has the potential to generate wealth for the Ministry. By restoring operations in the mine and securing a route to Dis, the Ministry can produce a new income stream. By reopening this gold mine, the Ministry can reduce the bleeding of wealth and regain financial stability.
[Upon Completion: +60 Wealth/Turn, -20 Labour, -1 Magical Tools]
Restart the Decarabia Blackstone Quarry (58/150), 35 Wealth/Dice
The Decarabia Blackstone Quarry has been secured with the cooperation of the Underworld Guard and the required local infrastructure has been restored to full functionality. All that remains is finding enough Devils to quarry for Blackstone and equipping them with their required tools before we can reap the rewards of newly extracted Blackstone
[Upon Completion: +30 Material/Turn, -15 Labour, - 1 Magical Tools]
Secure Farmlands Stage 2 (87/100), 15 Wealth/Dice {UG}
The rising cost of food cannot be allowed to continue and luckily the one thing the ministry doesn't lack is uncultivated land. With sweeps by the Underworld Guard and the establishment of a lightly warded perimeter we can establish relatively secure areas where Food can be grown.
[Upon Completion: +4 Food, -6 Labour, 1/5 identical Stages are completed]
Search for other abandoned industries (0/50) 15 Wealth/Dice
It is very likely that there are more locations that have been abandoned during the devastation of the Great War. With our new contacts among the Devils roaming in the Wilderness we can search for additional sites that can be reactivated to supply us with the materials we need.
[Upon Completion: New productive sites will be discovered with varying levels of size, quality and intactness]
General Ministry
Rebuild Lucifaad (75/700), 30 Wealth/Dice, 20 material/Dice
Lucifaad, the capital and largest city in the Underworld, has been severely impacted by the fighting, resulting in the destruction of a majority of the city. Being the personal domain of the old Lucifer, it has always been out of the hands of the Devil Clans. Lucifaad now serves as the backbone of the Underworld's meagre economy. The city's restoration is crucial to the revival of the Underworld's economy. The citizens of Lucifaad will contribute 25 free progress to rebuilding it each turn.
[Upon Completion: Lucifaad will be repaired, a great accomplishment ]
Rebuild Dis, Stage 2: The Inner City (64/220), 20 Wealth/Dice, 20 material/Dice
Dis used to be the greatest City in the outer regions, but with the increasing amount of wilderness surrounding it it has fallen into disrepair. With the repairs to its defences the degradation of Dis has been stopped and only the reconstruction of the city centre remains.
[Upon Completion: Dis will be repaired, a great accomplishment ]
Repair Lesser Lilith Institutes (0/150), 30 Wealth/Dice, 10 Material/Dice
The City of Lilith used to house a dozen specialised universities supporting the Nebiros Institute in its efforts to research new ways to fight against Heaven and educating the greatest minds of the Underworld. This unique system is an integral part of the City and we will rebuild them to restore it to its proper glory.
[Upon completion: The Nebiros Institute will be more efficient and will be able to open an additional wing, allowing you to choose 3 useful boni instead of 2.]
-> The Morningstar Road continues to deteriorate and if nothing is done we will soon be unable to fulfil all transports to Dis and our extracting area in the wilderness if nothing is done.
Repair the western Morning Star Road Stage 1, (0/200), 10 Wealth/Dice
The Morning Star Road is one of the two Great Roads spanning throughout the Underworld and connects Dis in the West through Lucifadd to Bael City in the East. While the eastern part of the Road is not significant to us the western part is extremely important. For many smaller towns and villages the road is the only feasible way to reach Lucifaad and all of our projects utilise it to a significant extent to be able to move materials, people and tools around.
Yet the road is in a terrible shape. Angelic Raids against the main supply Line of the Heaven Advance have created large sections of nominal road where travellers have to deviate from the original route to avoid holy grounds, unnavigable craters or areas trapped to entangle and kill the obvious. Continued neglect and additional damage during the Civil War have rendered it increasingly less functional. If we continue to expand our operations in the Wilderness and around Dis it is only a matter of time until the road has degraded into complete uselessness.
While it will be very expensive to completely restore the Road to its pristine status we can start repairs by patching the parts of the roads that can be relatively cheaply repaired while significantly increasing the safety and speed of travellers on it.
Manufacture Warding Paper (0/200), 30 Wealth/Dice
Basic Warding Paper is the foundation of many magical applications, serving as quick ways to fix a problem, allowing for limited modifications of more advanced tools and used as the basis for nearly every lesser Ward. Demand for the paper is significant, yet the Amon and Stolas Clan hoard their production and refuse to sell to Free Devil buyers. While highly damaging, this embargo is also a significant opportunity, as the creation is more labour intensive than difficult, which means that we can manufacture large amounts of the Papers and lighten some of the damaging Magical Tool shortage.
[ -16 Labour, +3 Magical Tools ]
-> NEW
Manufacture Flight Suits (0/250), 70 Wealth/Dice
Beelzebubs newly created Flight Suits require both experts in constructing armour and experts in the delicate art of runic enchantment. While the easiest solution would be to commission master craftsman to work together to create them it would be possible to instead establish a factory where a team can be established and manufacture them both for domestic consumption and export.
Educated Craftsmen who can fulfill this task are scarce, as the devil clans are recruiting them whenever they can, until we have found a source of new, educated devils we will not be able to carry more than one of such actions.
[Expected Value: at least 80 Wealth/Turn(Exact demand for this new, untested Technology is unknown), -8 Labour, -1 Magical Tools, Reduces cost of all actions involving Flight Suits]
Explore the remnants of a House of Lucifer (9/200), 20 Wealth/Dice (3 remaining)
The Devil Civil War has left a trail of devastation among the 72 Noble houses, with many houses rendered extinct and their lands and possessions now belonging to the government. The remnants of the Houses of Lucifer, sworn directly to Lucifer and trusted more than even the clans of the Satans, have also suffered a similar fate, with only House Lucifuge surviving. These territories may hold incredible secrets or riches, and those who explore them can earn Wealth, materials, Artefacts or other valuable items left behind. Leftover Progress will roll over to the next exploration should one be available.
[Upon Completion: Earn Wealth, materials, Artefacts or other valuable items left behind ]
-Satanachia
-Algaliarept
-Sargatanas
Explore the remnants of a dead Clan (0/150), 20 Wealth/Dice (7 remeaning)
The Devil Civil War has left a trail of destruction in its wake, with many of the 72 Noble houses suffering heavy losses. As a result, 7 of these houses have been completely wiped out, and their lands and possessions have been transferred to the government. These once-grand estates may still hold valuable items and artefacts, and those who are able to locate them first will be able to keep them. Leftover Progress will roll over to the next exploration should one be available.
[Upon Completion: Earn Wealth, materials, Artefacts or other valuable items left behind ]
Refound the Nebiros Institute (0/100), 60 Wealth/Dice
The Nebiros Institute, a renowned center for research and education in Lilith, was once the training ground for many of the most accomplished tacticians in the Host. However, the recent civil war has left the Institute in ruins, and its staff either killed or scattered. By taking steps to rebuild the Institute, we can invest in the future of Devils and ensure future leaders know what they are doing.
[Upon Completion: -5 Wealth/Turn, -5 Labour, Nebiros Institute opens again ]
Open educational facilities Stage 1 (0/150), 20 Wealth/Dice
The Research Institutes of Lilith are geared towards improving the minds of already educated and extraordinarily intelligent Devils, but they cannot help the Common Devil learn about the world. The lack of the schooling provided by the Devil Clans has contributed to the worsening situation in the Ministry Lands, with even the recruits for the Ministry itself sometimes needing to be taught basic knowledge while they are learning about how to contribute. Through the opening of schools in Towns and Cities we can offer the brightest Young Devils an education that will allow them to carry out advanced work and lead other workers better. Additionally a larger pool of educated workers will improve the recruiting processes of the ministry in the future, as we will not have to teach them everything ourselves
[Upon Completion: Promising young Devils will receive an education at the newly created schools in Lucifaad and Dis. Further stages will expand coverage to smaller towns in the Ministerial Lands]
Investigate runic infrastructure (0/?), 100 Wealth/Dice(Rolled with the Dice Bonus of Beelzebub)
The Old Satan Beelzebub is known for his frenzied creation of runic infrastructure concentrated in Lucifaad. While some of these creations are deemed useless, others, such as the perpetuum mobile, are considered wonders. Beelzebub has offered to collaborate with us in studying these artifacts to determine their potential for replication and use.
[Upon Completion: Satan Beelzebub will have expanded his knowledge and promises to share the fruits of his research ]
Investigate the Gates of Hell (0/?), 100 Wealth/Dice(Rolled with the Dice Bonus of Beelzebub)
The Gates of Hell, massive magical installations connecting the Underworld and the Human World for troop movements, have mostly become nonfunctional due to warfare and our inability to comprehend their principles. However, one of the gates remains operational. Beelzebub has offered to cooperate with us in studying these artifacts, with the aim of repairing and even replicating them.
[Upon Completion: Satan Beelzebub will have expanded his knowledge and promises to share the fruits of his research ]
Build a palace for the ministry (0/500) 50 Wealth/Dice, 20 material/Dice
The center of any Devil Clan is its castle, which often reflects the effectiveness of the Clan as a whole. Therefore, the Ministry must have an equally magnificent and impressive home to establish its authority and legitimacy.
[Upon Completion: A magnificent headquarters will awe all who gaze upon it. ]
-> NEW
Reach out to unregistered Devils (0/?), 15 Wealth/Dice
Working together with the Institute we will put in the effort to integrate Devils whole have been left out of our systems up until now. This will enroll them into our Basic Wage program and make them available to work in our projects.
[+? Labour]
Long Range Courier Service Stage 1 (0/160) 60 Wealth/Dice
Currently reports and messages are spread either through couriers, fast messengers who transport the orders, requests and information that are essential for the continued functioning of the ministry. By building some of Beelzebubs newly designed Flight suits we can drastically cut down on the travelling time of these couriers through increasing their safety, speed and avoiding obstacles, which will increase the efficiency of all tasks of the ministry.
[+1 to all Dice, Stage 2 involves expanding access of the courier service to the civilian population]
Decisions
Through the creation of a new department which specialises on carrying through a certain category of actions we can increase the efficiency in the utilisation of our limited resources at the cost of our flexibility. The new department will have 4 assigned dice that can only be used to progress actions falling into the category of that action. Free Dice not assigned to a Department can be used in addition to specifically assigned dice to a limit of double the regular dice. Departments will give a +5 Bonus to Dice in their category.
[Decision] Establish a specialised Department: Infrastructure
The Department of Infrastructure would be responsible for the repair, maintenance and building of Roads, Cities, Teleportation Gates and other underlying structures required for the operation of Underworld.
[A new department will be created with 4 assigned Dice. These specialised Dice will have a Bonus of 5]
-> NEW
[Decision] Stop rationing Magical Tools
Once the situation concerning Magical Tools has improved we will be able to stop rationing them, improving our economic prospects but increasing the demand for them by a large amount
[16 points of Private Demand for Magical Tools will no longer be rationed, Mechanical Effect: -16 Magical Tools]
[Decision] Use an artifact (Write-in Artifact and purpose)
We are able to use our artifacts for a variety of purposes
[I will give feedback concerning any ideas to use an artifact]
Support the Institute for Free Devils, (May spend any combination of Dice or Resources)
Due to your commitment to the ministry, you are unable to continue leading the Institute for Free Devils as you have done in the past. However, your dedication to this cause has not diminished. To this end, Amberley will utilise all resources that you allocate to her to enhance the organisation's capacity to care for Free Devils, push back against the influence of the Pillar families, and provide political support to you when needed.
AN: It's turn 4! There is frustratingly little information about Malagasy Mythology on the web
The depictions of mythologies in the quest draw inspiration from real life but they are not intended to be an actual representation of them. I will not tolerate prejudice against real life religions or beliefs.
Attacking the Catholic church in quest because they support Heaven is alright, but attacking the religion because you believe they are wrong for their belief is not.
Please vote in Plan Formats, a possible template can be found below but you are free to choose any way of presenting a plan as long as it is possible for me to understand it
[X] Plan Treasure Hunter
-[X] Explore the remnants of a House of Lucifer - 6 Dice
Huh. The food and congoods from trade with humans is definitely welcome. It's not a huge amount, but every little bit helps.
Sounds like we'll have to start fixing the road soon, or else the Clans will try to use it as a pretext to move against us. Don't think we can really afford to start doing that this turn, though.
The Wingsuits are neat, and we'll probably want to build a factory for them, but... yeah; that price-tag. Ouch.
Gonna have to start reaching out to unregistered devils, though. Would rather not that they starve, and in the long run every single supporter we have matters.
How does this interact with the boni from specialized departments, btw? Do both the general and specialized dice-modifiers apply, or does the specialized modifier replace the general one?
For example, for rebuilding the Quarry, would we get a -5 penalty (-10 malus, +5 bonus) or just the +5 bonus?
How does this interact with the boni from specialized departments, btw? Do both the general and specialized dice-modifiers apply, or does the specialized modifier replace the general one?
For example, for rebuilding the Quarry, would we get a -5 penalty (-10 malus, +5 bonus) or just the +5 bonus?
