Astartes - Web Animation

Overlap is one thing, but the Deciever is literally just Tzeentch and the Nightbringer is a cartoon grim reaper. I do not consider either of those actually interesting divergences in narrative. The only c'tan to ever go into that area is the Void Dragon.
Gee, I wonder if I said anything about what to do with the C'tan before?
Fundamentally, a lot of my perspective is rooted in the assertion that Oldcrons worked. They weren't perfect! They had problems! Any update to them would need to de-emphasise the C'tan to some degree to combat the impression that they were behind damn near every major event in the galaxy, for example. They needed to be hands-off figures, wreathed in at least as much mystery as the Primarch's before the Horus Heresy novels pulled that veil back- at the very least, the C'tan definitely needed to not be special characters you could theoretically drop into a 1,000 point tabletop match. Repurpose the models for like, weird Necron dreadnoughts or something.
Just take Oldcrons, vagueify everything to do with the C'tan by about two orders of magnitude
hey look it's almost like i thought that being up-front and explicit about the nature of the c'tan was a terrible idea from the start. fancy that.

Like, Revlid has been bandying around ideas about reworking the C'tan into literal machine gods, eldritch planet-minds begun by Necrontyr artifice and completed by their own inscrutable, emerging and self-realising intellect. I'm kind of attached to the C'tan as Star Gods, but even I'd want to considerably muffle the facts about them.

(all that said, 'the deceiver is literally just tzeentch' always kind of struck me as a laughable argument when cegorach has been floating around in the setting with his loveable murderclowns for ages. trickster gods are just a Thing.)
 
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And this, this right here, encapsulates my problem with oldcrons.

It dwells in narrative space already deeply taken up with other factions, star-gods dwelling in the dark between worlds, oh hey wait, the setting already has those.
No, not really. The C'tan were a clumsy retcon, awkwardly presented, but they still occupy a quite distinct narrative and thematic space from the Chaos Gods.

The Chaos Gods are fundamentally humanistic. What they bring to the setting is a religious horror, with daemons and temptations and visions and souls. They're not literally the Christian devil, but they're close enough in most regards. Humans matter to the Chaos Gods. Morality and spirituality are relevant when discussing them. They can lure and corrupt great heroes into a fall from grace, or be renounced as a foul and fiendish influence. They have aesthetics lifted from Doom, from the Exorcist, from Bosch and a dozen other medieval hell-artists.

The C'tan are fundamentally materialistic. What they bring to the setting is cosmic horror, which is something that the Chaos Gods only dabble in on a shallow, aesthetic level, via impossible angles and mortals driven mad and unpronouncable names. The C'tan aren't gods, they're aliens, so ancient and powerful they might as well be deities from a mortal perspective. They don't need humanity or much care about it, any more than you or I need a colony of ants. They're Cthulhu, not Satan. Azathoth, not Lucifer. Nyarlathotep, not Beelzebub. The horror they bring to the table isn't a moral one, of what they might make you do or what they reveal about humanity, but an existential one: it doesn't matter what humanity's moral core is. You don't matter. None of this does. The Imperium's 10,000 years are an eyeblink in the lifespan of a star, and even stars will die.

They could have been handled a lot better; the odd, inconsistent preoccupation with eating "souls" made them seem much more like Chaos Gods than they are, as did the decision to have only four named/surviving ones, and to give the only one with any screentime or personality the same dramatic niche as The Laughing God and the Changer of Ways. The models looking like buff classical human gods didn't help, frankly. But redundant with Chaos? No, that's simply incorrect.
 
The C'tan are fundamentally materialistic. What they bring to the setting is cosmic horror, which is something that the Chaos Gods only dabble in on a shallow, aesthetic level, via impossible angles and mortals driven mad and unpronouncable names. The C'tan aren't gods, they're aliens, so ancient and powerful they might as well be deities from a mortal perspective. They don't need humanity or much care about it, any more than you or I need a colony of ants. They're Cthulhu, not Satan. Azathoth, not Lucifer. Nyarlathotep, not Beelzebub. The horror they bring to the table isn't a moral one, of what they might make you do or what they reveal about humanity, but an existential one: it doesn't matter what humanity's moral core is. You don't matter. None of this does. The Imperium's 10,000 years are an eyeblink in the lifespan of a star, and even stars will die.
Yeah this is something I should have picked up on myself, and I thank you for articulating it. Oldcrons made a lot of how the C'tan were the antithesis of warp gods - more than just opposing them, they have a different relationship to mortals, both those that worship them and those that oppose them.

For all the 'Slaves to Darkness' rhetoric, the way that the forces of Chaos are shackled to their gods, Chaos as a faction is, both narratively and mechanically, intensely concerned with individuals. It's all exalted champions and people who want to be those champions, all striving to earn the favour and attention of the dark gods by proving their valour and worth on the bodies of other individuals. That attention might be fickle, split between countless channels of grimdark reality TV, but it is nevertheless something both relevant to and within the grasp of the individual.

The C'tan aren't. There's a particular piece of art that stands out in my mind's eye, of a Pariah standing guard over a long line of shackled and downcast slaves, trudging towards the uncaring engines of their consumption. The C'tan don't care, because one fleshbag is as meaningful as another. They're all just cattle to be consumed, one way or another.
Codex: Necrons said:
"l have seen the doom of the universe.

It waits, ever-patient, at the end of the twisting, spiralling path that the young races have wrought for themselves. Like some malignant, patient beast it lingers unseen, but this horror is neither nameless nor unheralded. The potential for its sundered birth squatted within the minds of its masters long before Isha's tears fell. The black seed of its creation was sown long aeons past, and it has grown strong.

I have seen the proud sons of Asuryan dwindle away to mere pockets of resistance on the cusp of the galactic wastes. I have seen the infinity circuits themselves, the lifeblood of craftworlds sucked dry in obscene feasts. The lesser races war amongst themselves, unaware of the horrifying fate that awaits them, the reward of their intolerance.

I have seen the mon-keigh brutally shorn of their precious civilisation, reduced to a weak and frail shadow of their gaudy, temporal grandeur. No more do their brutish warriors wage their xenocidal wars; they could not fight against the inevitability of time. No more does their corpse-god's pallid beacon sputter and crackle in the warp; his feeble flame was long since extinguished. His appetite for souls was as nothing next to the ageless hunger of the Yngir.

I have seen column upon column of shambling, hopeless figures trudging through the ashen dust, herded forth by the gleaming traitors plucked from the imperfect womb of their race. These guards are terrible indeed, their cold perfection a stark contrast to their sick and wasted charges. They drive them into the insatiable mouths of megalithic portals that punctuate the landscape like vast, black parasites, aligned in a blasphemous architecture of despair.

I have seen a sickly, emerald sky, stabbed continuously by great columns of soul-light that pour from the crests of these foul monoliths, nourishing the ancient and ascendant deities that permeate the blighted atmosphere. Their miasmic presence is everywhere, in every shallow breath taken by their bipedal herd, in every milky and despairing eye. Their mocking laughter resonates in the soul of each and every one.

I have seen the mark of the Yngir on the young and old alike, lest the others in their sacrilegious pantheon turn their deadly attentions to the wrong flock. They populate the geometric schism of changeless realspace that the Yngir have worked long millennia to construct. A psychic void, the warp cannot exist there. The spirit cannot exist there.

I have seen the infernal machineries of the Dragon powered by the tired limbs of those which they are designed to consume, the exhausted husks that can work no more transmuted into brief flares of light. Hundreds of serried, fleshy forms, riddled with sockets and plugs, bleed their essence into the pulsing green heart of the Machine.

I have seen the sprawling landscape of fear that the Master of Death has created, its craven inhabitants wading half-mad with terror through seas of blood. For the Destroyer savours the taste of dread, and cultivates it in his herd, his phantoms plaguing the living with premonitions of their inevitable demise. Then, at the peak of their horror, he feeds.

I have seen the writhing, inverted geometries of the Outsider curl and tighten around his harvest as they clamber and crawl like vermin around his illogical labyrinth. Barely a shred of sanity exists in the broken minds of his prey: enough to comprehend the fact that they cannot escape this hideous paradigm, but not enough to quell the traitorous seed of hope that slithers unfulfilled within their breast.

I have seen the Jackal god's prey wander in a deluded reverie, imagining the lush grass of the Elysian fields when their bloodied feet trail through sharp stones and vitrified bone. Their toothless mouths twist into the vapid smiles of the ignorant as they wander into the soulforges, believing they are coming home.

But I have seen many things, as my soul has wandered the myriad paths of the future. I have seen both the death and the birth of stars. I have walked the very borders of the universe within the confines of my mind, and I know that the future is not immutable. The Yngir can be stopped, their nascent labours undone before they come to terrible fruition. This knowledge is the most precious of all.

I have seen the doom of the universe. And yet I have seen hope."

Attributed to Farseer Maechu of Ulthwe
 
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Like, Revlid has been bandying around ideas about reworking the C'tan into literal machine gods, eldritch planet-minds begun by Necrontyr artifice and completed by their own inscrutable, emerging and self-realising intellect. I'm kind of attached to the C'tan as Star Gods, but even I'd want to considerably muffle the facts about them.
I'm pretty sure there are plenty of different kind of computer megastructures based around stars you could use as the physical starting point of the C'tan.
 
Like, Revlid has been bandying around ideas about reworking the C'tan into literal machine gods, eldritch planet-minds begun by Necrontyr artifice and completed by their own inscrutable, emerging and self-realising intellect. I'm kind of attached to the C'tan as Star Gods, but even I'd want to considerably muffle the facts about them.
I'm pretty sure there are plenty of different kind of computer megastructures based around stars you could use as the physical starting point of the C'tan.
While I like Blame!, trying to awkwardly shove the City into 40k doesn't seem to be the solution for making tha Necrons more distinctive.
 
While I like Blame!, trying to awkwardly shove the City into 40k doesn't seem to be the solution for making tha Necrons more distinctive.
In practical terms you can replicate most of Blame! by replacing The City with "a random Hive in the Imperium" :V

I think there are lots of things you can do with the C'tan, starting at a baseline of "their original concept, just executed slightly better and with more material". My personal preference takes inspiration from the old implication that the Outsider was trapped in a Dyson Sphere; what if "feeds on stars and worlds" was just a typically poetic Aeldari description of a vast machine powered by stars or molten planetary cores? The C'tan are literal Machine Gods – colossal, reality-warping intelligences akin to SHODAN, AM, the Inhibitors, Cynosure, N2, the WAU, the Anti-Xeelee, the IDE, or a Culture Mind, constructed around stars or within the cores of Tomb Worlds, created to direct Necrontyr society with inscrutable calculations and godlike intellect. Replace the "shards" or "sheathes" with remote avatars, constructed from necrodermis and hard light.

The heart of a C'tan is a point where space-time warps under the impossible density of electric thought, where the solar visions of a god that was never born are carried down crystal channels laid by machines who could understand the machines who could understand the machines who could understand the machines who could understand eternity. Where time stops and space makes no sense, a labyrinth of quantum mechanics, an indecipherable autoconstructing mind of steel and starlight, ever-dreaming its way into ever-deeper depths of impenetrable cognition, its logic as dark and inescapable as a black hole. The Lords of the Necrontyr were the high priests of this unfathomable Deep Science, administrators and favoured agents of the machines that made them. The C'tan guided Necrontyr society, engineered its evolution over generations of alien efficiency. The Necrontyr were weighed down by their bodies, held back by their minds. The Necrontyr died, and the Necrons were born. It was intelligent design.

Perhaps millennia of degradation and decay, forced into dormancy as wild warp-storms interfered with their relentlessly logical calculations, have driven the C'tan mad. But how could you tell? They think on a scale too massive and complex for lesser minds to comprehend. They can only devote themselves to its impossible insight, or perish. Perhaps Mars is one, and the ghosts of its rusted machine-mind still haunt its depths. Perhaps it was called The Dragon. Perhaps its dark data dreams laid the foundation for human science, and took true root in the souls of the first colonists of the Red Planet.

Now they turn in their sleep, now they wake, sluggish and fitful, and their immortal agents move to interpret the will of their mad gods. The Keeper Of Infinity, who gathers countless specimens to further his Tomb World's understanding of this squirming new galaxy, harvesting whole Hives and seeking out specific samples to sieve the human genome for the Old Ones' secrets. The Storm Lord, who directs cybernetic legions with the uncanny swiftness and precision of a chess master, guided by the thundering god-neurons of his C'tan's atmospheric emanations. The White Despot, whose ships whip through deep space with a silent scream, endlessly hunting for Aeldari Craftworlds, seeking to end a war that was won aeons ago. Sorrow In Runes, scion and architect of The Outsider, the faceless spider-priest whose artistry wields asteroids as a lesser artist uses chalk, reshaping systems into more orderly forms. Tools of a grand cleansing. Heralds of a Clockwork Cosmos. Deranged relics of broken machines.
 
This sounds very much like the Deathlords and the Neverborn in Exalted.

Not 1 for 1, thematically the First and Forsaken Lion, Lover Clad In A Rainment of Tears, the Dowager is the only one of them that's really inhuman but their relationship to their creators kinda echoes your Necrons and the C'tan.
 
In practical terms you can replicate most of Blame! by replacing The City with "a random Hive in the Imperium" :V

I think there are lots of things you can do with the C'tan, starting at a baseline of "their original concept, just executed slightly better and with more material". My personal preference takes inspiration from the old implication that the Outsider was trapped in a Dyson Sphere; what if "feeds on stars and worlds" was just a typically poetic Aeldari description of a vast machine powered by stars or molten planetary cores? The C'tan are literal Machine Gods – colossal, reality-warping intelligences akin to SHODAN, AM, the Inhibitors, Cynosure, N2, the WAU, the Anti-Xeelee, the IDE, or a Culture Mind, constructed around stars or within the cores of Tomb Worlds, created to direct Necrontyr society with inscrutable calculations and godlike intellect. Replace the "shards" or "sheathes" with remote avatars, constructed from necrodermis and hard light.

The heart of a C'tan is a point where space-time warps under the impossible density of electric thought, where the solar visions of a god that was never born are carried down crystal channels laid by machines who could understand the machines who could understand the machines who could understand the machines who could understand eternity. Where time stops and space makes no sense, a labyrinth of quantum mechanics, an indecipherable autoconstructing mind of steel and starlight, ever-dreaming its way into ever-deeper depths of impenetrable cognition, its logic as dark and inescapable as a black hole. The Lords of the Necrontyr were the high priests of this unfathomable Deep Science, administrators and favoured agents of the machines that made them. The C'tan guided Necrontyr society, engineered its evolution over generations of alien efficiency. The Necrontyr were weighed down by their bodies, held back by their minds. The Necrontyr died, and the Necrons were born. It was intelligent design.

Perhaps millennia of degradation and decay, forced into dormancy as wild warp-storms interfered with their relentlessly logical calculations, have driven the C'tan mad. But how could you tell? They think on a scale too massive and complex for lesser minds to comprehend. They can only devote themselves to its impossible insight, or perish. Perhaps Mars is one, and the ghosts of its rusted machine-mind still haunt its depths. Perhaps it was called The Dragon. Perhaps its dark data dreams laid the foundation for human science, and took true root in the souls of the first colonists of the Red Planet.

Now they turn in their sleep, now they wake, sluggish and fitful, and their immortal agents move to interpret the will of their mad gods. The Keeper Of Infinity, who gathers countless specimens to further his Tomb World's understanding of this squirming new galaxy, harvesting whole Hives and seeking out specific samples to sieve the human genome for the Old Ones' secrets. The Storm Lord, who directs cybernetic legions with the uncanny swiftness and precision of a chess master, guided by the thundering god-neurons of his C'tan's atmospheric emanations. The White Despot, whose ships whip through deep space with a silent scream, endlessly hunting for Aeldari Craftworlds, seeking to end a war that was won aeons ago. Sorrow In Runes, scion and architect of The Outsider, the faceless spider-priest whose artistry wields asteroids as a lesser artist uses chalk, reshaping systems into more orderly forms. Tools of a grand cleansing. Heralds of a Clockwork Cosmos. Deranged relics of broken machines.
As much as I like that take, I think it is fair to say that the chaos gods are and have been written with cosmic horror as much embedded in their DNA as personal horror. Even Nyarlathotep is shown as both the embodiment of the cruel and uncaring machinery of reality and as an individual temptor.
For my part I generally split the difference between old and new: the ctan are emergent quantum phenomena embedded in the very laws of physics, but we're made legible and terribly personal by the Necrons hubris and science. The Necrons rebelled successfully, and still have shreds of their culture, having far more of their personality than even new Necrons generally due: I prefer my factions to have people and society behind them, and not just be mindless automatons: my head cannon dictates that even warriors should have mind and memory, if only in cases where time and decay had a lighter hand.

I would also tone the Egyptian aesthetic way back, and add the pariahs back in.

Overall, I see the Necrons as so far advanced that they aren't even playing at the same scale as other factions, destroyed as they are, though with the ctan ever lurking in the background as an eternal threat. Attractive, in the sense they show how mortals can grow to contend even with the God's, but repellent at how much of themselves they bartered away to do so and how awfully they both use it and we're changed by it, and how even such might as theirs may fail against the endless tapping of entropy's hammer.

Also, to turn things back on topic, I do hope that GW gives the Astartes creator enough control over his work for him to persist in the aesthetic direction that proved so successful in depicting what I take as the canonical power and terror of the Adeptus Astartes : the merciless, nigh perfect in their violence, but still ultimately human hatchetmen of a brutal empire.
 
The idea of the C'Tan being based in machinery has a nice symmetry to it, but I also kind of like the idea that one day the Necrotyr just turned their telescopes up to the sky and just noticed this ...thing sucking a star dry like a leech. And they were desperate enough to ask this thing for power. The C'tan not really having an origin, or not deigning to share it with mortals, has a sinister mystery to it that I find appealing.
 
As much as I like that take, I think it is fair to say that the chaos gods are and have been written with cosmic horror as much embedded in their DNA as personal horror. Even Nyarlathotep is shown as both the embodiment of the cruel and uncaring machinery of reality and as an individual temptor.
I think that's a bit of a stretch. The Chaos Gods often use the aesthetics of cosmic (or more specifically, Lovecraftian) horror, but a lot of these aesthetics have simply proliferated into the mainstream anyway. They have art and books that will drive you mad, and big ol' tentacles, and names with lots of apostrophes (albeit mostly in Forge World books; the core setting is content with "Skulltaker" or "Rotigus"), but Alien has none of those things and it's more of a cosmic horror story than Chaos ever will be.

Nyarlathotep is infamous as the only Outer God who involves himself with humanity on an individual level, albeit through an endless kaleidoscope of avatars; he's a deliberate exception, specifically noted to be their messenger and soul, the point at which the overwhelming vastness of the cosmos meets and engulfs humanity's comfortable ignorance. Tzeentch's Changeling borrows from his role, but only lightly; Mephet'ran the Deceiver is almost a 1:1 clone.

For my part I generally split the difference between old and new: the ctan are emergent quantum phenomena embedded in the very laws of physics, but we're made legible and terribly personal by the Necrons hubris and science. The Necrons rebelled successfully, and still have shreds of their culture, having far more of their personality than even new Necrons generally due: I prefer my factions to have people and society behind them, and not just be mindless automatons: my head cannon dictates that even warriors should have mind and memory, if only in cases where time and decay had a lighter hand.
The idea of the C'Tan being based in machinery has a nice symmetry to it, but I also kind of like the idea that one day the Necrotyr just turned their telescopes up to the sky and just noticed this ...thing sucking a star dry like a leech. And they were desperate enough to ask this thing for power. The C'tan not really having an origin, or not deigning to share it with mortals, has a sinister mystery to it that I find appealing.
Yeah! Like I said, there are lots of ways you can go with the C'tan. I like the "Machine Gods" interpretation, but you can also work with them as more straightforward Lovecraftian aliens who feed upon stars, and/or bodiless cosmic intelligences given form by Necrontyr technology. The main issue with the Oldcron C'tan wasn't the core premise, it was a) how much agency and individuality they cost the rest of the faction, b) how much they were presented in ways that made them seem like a mirror to the Chaos Gods, c) they were all dead, absent, boring, or Cegorach.

I don't much care for the rebellion, honestly. At the time it felt like fanwank from someone who didn't like C'tan, and I don't think it adds anything to Necrons now. Quite aside from not making very much sense (the Deceiver, cosmically intelligent superbeing... didn't include an off switch?), it just means that Necrons who follow C'tan are losers and Necrons with independence are the default. Removing the rebellion means that Necrons who worship, serve, or collaborate are the C'tan being the default (offering a wide range of relationships) while those who reject them are cool independent deathbots who don't need no Outer God.
 
I don't much care for the rebellion, honestly. At the time it felt like fanwank from someone who didn't like C'tan, and I don't think it adds anything to Necrons now. Quite aside from not making very much sense (the Deceiver, cosmically intelligent superbeing... didn't include an off switch?), it just means that Necrons who follow C'tan are losers and Necrons with independence are the default. Removing the rebellion means that Necrons who worship, serve, or collaborate with the C'tan are the default (offering a wide range of relationships) while those who reject them are cool independent deathbots who don't need no Outer God.
Yeah, 'Necrons are subservient to the C'tan' is a relationship that can be worked in all sorts of cool ways without denying agency to the Necrons.

One idea I've been toying with for a while is to set it up so the assorted Necron Lords know that they are lashed tight to their masters designs, but also know that with as few tombs awake as there are, each one is a precious resource - for now. Once they're all awake, the Necrons will be a vast and immortal horde trivially able to subjugate the galaxy, and so each of them will be expendable and interchangeable, but until then the Necrons are few enough to be valuable, and so there are opportunities for canny Lords to try and establish a position of favour with the Star Gods that they can maintain after achieving galactic dominance. The Necron Lords therefore publicly talk a good game about awakening all the tombs to bring forth their masters grand designs, but privately most of them are in two minds about it; yes, awakening another tomb would be a great feather in their cap and the surest way to earn glory and lasting favour, but with the tomb will come a bunch of new competitors, and a dilution of every Necron's relative worth.
 
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Gee, I wonder if I said anything about what to do with the C'tan before?

hey look it's almost like i thought that being up-front and explicit about the nature of the c'tan was a terrible idea from the start. fancy that.

Like, Revlid has been bandying around ideas about reworking the C'tan into literal machine gods, eldritch planet-minds begun by Necrontyr artifice and completed by their own inscrutable, emerging and self-realising intellect. I'm kind of attached to the C'tan as Star Gods, but even I'd want to considerably muffle the facts about them.

(all that said, 'the deceiver is literally just tzeentch' always kind of struck me as a laughable argument when cegorach has been floating around in the setting with his loveable murderclowns for ages. trickster gods are just a Thing.)
No, not really. The C'tan were a clumsy retcon, awkwardly presented, but they still occupy a quite distinct narrative and thematic space from the Chaos Gods.

The Chaos Gods are fundamentally humanistic. What they bring to the setting is a religious horror, with daemons and temptations and visions and souls. They're not literally the Christian devil, but they're close enough in most regards. Humans matter to the Chaos Gods. Morality and spirituality are relevant when discussing them. They can lure and corrupt great heroes into a fall from grace, or be renounced as a foul and fiendish influence. They have aesthetics lifted from Doom, from the Exorcist, from Bosch and a dozen other medieval hell-artists.

The C'tan are fundamentally materialistic. What they bring to the setting is cosmic horror, which is something that the Chaos Gods only dabble in on a shallow, aesthetic level, via impossible angles and mortals driven mad and unpronouncable names. The C'tan aren't gods, they're aliens, so ancient and powerful they might as well be deities from a mortal perspective. They don't need humanity or much care about it, any more than you or I need a colony of ants. They're Cthulhu, not Satan. Azathoth, not Lucifer. Nyarlathotep, not Beelzebub. The horror they bring to the table isn't a moral one, of what they might make you do or what they reveal about humanity, but an existential one: it doesn't matter what humanity's moral core is. You don't matter. None of this does. The Imperium's 10,000 years are an eyeblink in the lifespan of a star, and even stars will die.

They could have been handled a lot better; the odd, inconsistent preoccupation with eating "souls" made them seem much more like Chaos Gods than they are, as did the decision to have only four named/surviving ones, and to give the only one with any screentime or personality the same dramatic niche as The Laughing God and the Changer of Ways. The models looking like buff classical human gods didn't help, frankly. But redundant with Chaos? No, that's simply incorrect.
This insistence on Nyarlthrotep is weird, since he's the mythos figure most interacting with humans on a personal level as revild just pointed out. It's also becoming clear to me a lot of this is you arguing in favor of your headcanons as opposed to oldcrons as they actually were, so there's very little point in keeping this going.
 
It's also becoming clear to me a lot of this is you arguing in favor of your headcanons as opposed to oldcrons as they actually were, so there's very little point in keeping this going.
i think it's pretty weird of you to try and make out that we're not arguing about what oldcrons actually were when i was quoting a passage from the 3rd ed codex on this page in support of an argument about the nature of what its model of the c'tan brings to the game as distinct from chaos, tbh, but aight, this tangent has taken up like three pages now :V
 
Is there a link to that? Search doesn't seem to give anything definitive.

'Ere we go, 'ere we go

forums.sufficientvelocity.com

Warhammer 40k General thread Megathread

In the grim darkness of the future there is only war... also dice... and lots of painting. I have often remarked how despite how often the franchise is brought upon this site there was a noticeable lack of general thread dedicated to it, something I have repeatedly said I would remedy only to...
 
This insistence on Nyarlthrotep is weird, since he's the mythos figure most interacting with humans on a personal level as revild just pointed out. It's also becoming clear to me a lot of this is you arguing in favor of your headcanons as opposed to oldcrons as they actually were, so there's very little point in keeping this going.
You: "[A Wrong Statement]."
Me: "No, this statement is wrong. I think the truth could have been better presented, such as X and Y, but it's definitely not what you're saying."
You: "Oh, so you're just pushing headcanons!"

Take the L with grace, dude. And actually try cracking open the 3e Necron codex while you're at it.
 


And another channel gets folded into GW. The folks that did the Last Church also got folded but there was no video announcements. I know this isn't technically Astartes related but it's close. If you didn't know who SODAZ is, he made a bunch of neat 40k animations involving Space Marines, and while not Astartes level good, his videos are quality for an amateur.

I'm wondering if this will pay out. A lot of people are, not unreasonably, upset at the removal of videos. A lot of people are saying it's "threats" and while GW has a history of being aggressive in the past, I don't know if this is the case. The video player at Warhammer Community aren't exactly what we call good. I'm both hopeful and worried how this will pan out.
 
one more added to the penal animation legion by fear of the copyright hammer
 
It's not such a bad sign because Games Workshop does use Youtube, but nevertheless the fact that they use a B-tier video player plugin they insist on playing this on doesn't inspire vast amounts of confidence in their ability to manage video and CG artists. Not in a malicious way, but in a 'oops all your work under us is now more obscure when you were just some independent fan lol sorry'.
 
So the big reveal from GW regarding their animation including Astartes was....a streaming service.



Yes, that's right. Warhammer+. Where all the fan animations you used to be able to watch for free, are now behind a paywall. By the Golden fucking Throne, now I'm starting to get why some people hate capitalism.
 
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