Architects of the Great Plan - Warhammer Fantasy Old One Quest

It's not spread so much as communities being split when the continents were divided.
Ah that's right.

I think you're confused about what the danger actually is. Again, the Grey Seer's role is refining Warpstone for others to use. They're the reason why the Warlock Engineers don't explode into mutants. Unless they're altering what Warpstone is, something inherently bad because it's Dhar, then without a mage caste to handle Warpstone this is going to be Turtles 2.0.
Edit: The QM has stated he is open to updating his interpretation based on info he received from the thread, so with your stressing on the danger of Warpstone the QM could very well update how our magic resistant rats interact with the dangerous material in a way that makes it more critical for them to learn runes for disposing Warpstone. IMO even if the QM doesn't, I've come around to its necessity - but more so to protect our other, less magic resistant creations as well as the world's ecosystem in general from swiftly being warpstone-corrupted
 
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[ ] Plan Weird Gnolls
[ ][BAS] Mammalian (Hyena)
[ ][SER] Non-Servant
[ ][TRA] Gifted Spellcasters
[ ][TRA] Hardy
[ ][TRA] Large
[ ][TRA] Muscular
[ ][TRA] Warm Adapted
-[ ] Name: Gnolls
-[ ] Physical Description: Massive and imposing bipedal hyenas, created to guard the south of the world. Females are larger than males, as is the case with their base species.
-[ ] Location: Southernmost point of the Southlands

Fremen miraged hypercasters fighting it out with Beastfiends in the southern hemisphere.

Last proposal, don't want to spam thread.
 
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So, our rat culture. This is just a proposal. Please feel free to ask for adjustments or give me a poke and say it's too early. :) I'm having fun with this at the moment.

[] Plan: C&D
-[] Culture/People Name: Virtuous Skaven
-[] Names:2 names. First name descriptive, second name Arabic
-[] Architecture: Elaborate underground areas, with curving structures reminiscent of of Arabic. Above ground structures are typically cloth tents.
-[] Cultural Behavior: Skaven are energetic, flighty, and extremely curious about all things. They love puzzles and mysteries, and it's considered a great gift to give someone one of them, solved or not. It is only when they become serious that they lose their yes-yes attitude and turn into, do it now-now.
-[] Government: The Skaven are governed by a council made up of leaders appointed by the clans that make up their society. This council will delegate leadership to various other people as appropriate, giving them extreme authority to carry out their task.
-[] Racial Purpose: The Skaven as a race has been formed to counter potential magical or corruptive threats. Since these threats can be subtle and variable, their society has a rather broad non-combat focus in their initial societal formation. The hope is that they will seek out, identify, and resolve problems without external help.
-[] Clan Structure: Skaven form clans that have an extreme focus on a narrow range of tasks. A clan may be formed or dissolved at any point, but will only be invited to the council once they've been judged to be unique and accomplished enough to contribute to the greater whole. Clan members may switch between clans at will, and arranged marriages and the like between clans are encouraged to keep some measure of peace. Clans are free to manage their internal structure as they see fit, provided they stay with the laws. There are five 'sacred clans' that must always exist and be part of the council.
--[] Clan Scribes: Responsible for recording and retaining knowledge, the scribes are allowed to access all other clan secrets, though they must keep them secret so long as the clan exists unless requested otherwise. The scribes are meant to provide backup and prevent the loss of knowledge. They also have the knowledge of demons / elementals and can theoretically summon / bind / contain those beings as necessary, though that information is restricted to the greatest of them.
--[] Clan Entertainers: Responsible for entertaining the populace. The entertainers are there to ease the inevitable tensions between the skaven and allow for civility to be maintained or retained. They also monitor the populace for subversion, and function as counterintelligence. They have a secret art called 'silk blade dancing' which is a martial art that is specifically used by dancers to prevent harm to their peoples if necessary. This art can be concealed within standard dancer attire and is a rather artistic and defensive style.
--[] Clan Science: The discoverers. The science clan exists to explore the universe, finding mysteries, and discovering things. Out of all the clans they alone will always have their findings published and are encouraged to found other clans to basically play engineer to their scientist. They have been taught how to use extremely volatile and dangerous elements, including warpstone, and know how to use it safely, and dispose of it as well. It is considered a sacred calling to maintain, preserve, and cleanse the enviornment.
--[] Clan Assassins: This clan practices the art of killing. They eliminate criminals and threats. The best fight in their opinion is one that never happens at all, and they strive to do so. Their secret lore is the lore of how to kill mages, and their best strive to be undetectable by anything. When not killing Assassins can function as bodyguards, identifying threats and removing them before they become dangerous. Something unkillable is considered a challenge to this clan.
--[] Clan Healers: To heal is this clan's goal. They are focus on non-magical healing in all respects, and while they don't disdain it, they try to avoid it where possible. The most hospitable clan, they will heal anyone that needs it, so long as they are not a threat to them and theirs. They also have the lore of how to purge mutations and corruptions, though this is not pleasant to the subject, and can kill their patient.
 
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Edit: The QM has stated he is open to updating his interpretation based on info he received from the thread, so with your stressing on the danger of Warpstone the QM could very well update how our magic resistant rats interact with the dangerous material in a way that makes it more critical for them to learn runes for disposing Warpstone. IMO even if the QM doesn't, I've come around to its necessity - but more so to protect our other, less magic resistant creations as well as the world's ecosystem in general from swiftly being warpstone-corrupted
Given how much of this quest's designs have been "meta" based, AKA following canon, telling people who know very little about Warhammer Fantasy what the existing lore says isn't putting a finger on the scale. It's using a wiki with citations, 7th Ed Skaven Army Book, to deliver the known information: Grey Seers are how Skaven refine Warpstone to be "safely" handled, not them just grabbing it with their grubby paws.
 
Given how much of this quest's designs have been "meta" based, AKA following canon, telling people who know very little about Warhammer Fantasy what the existing lore says isn't putting a finger on the scale. It's using a wiki with citations, 7th Ed Skaven Army Book, to deliver the known information: Grey Seers are how Skaven refine Warpstone to be "safely" handled, not them just grabbing it with their grubby paws.
I was confused on what you're going for here until I've gone over the discussion again. Correct me if I'm wrong, but your contention is with Red Bovine's argument that being Doubly Magic Resistant means our Skavens could safely work with Warpstone without us passing on runic knowledge. I think I've deeply misunderstood that to "our Skavens would become Turtles 2.0 without runic knowledge edit:if they come across Warpstone" in general.

Anyways, yes now that I've hopefully understood your argument better - I actually agree. I don't think being Doubly Magic Resistant means they should work with Warpstone beyond transporting them to nuclear waste dumps-style disposal, and if we do want them to work with warpstone (or at least give them the role of Warpstone disposal) than we need to teach em runes to work and/or dispose Warpstone safely. Sure their Double Magic Resistance means they're really resistant to Chaotic mutations, but better safe than sorry when intensively working on those Chaos bits.

...er, assuming Old Ones know about runes and that isn't a post-Old Ones invention by the Dawi ofc.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but your contention is with Red Bovine's argument that being Doubly Magic Resistant means our Skavens could safely work with Warpstone without us passing on runic knowledge. I think I've deeply misunderstood that to "our Skavens would become Turtles 2.0 without runic knowledge edit:if they come across Warpstone" in general.
I do think that without sufficient thought and planning, giving the Skaven Warpstone will result in Bad Things. So if a plan without explicit mention of Runes got through, there'd probably be salt.
...er, assuming Old Ones know about runes and that isn't a post-Old Ones invention by the Dawi ofc.
Everybody got taught by the Old Ones on Albion, plus the Elves do some quasi-similar techniques. And of course TO2's infrastructure is built around manipulating the flow of magic through air, water, and earth, the latter of which is pretty much exactly what Runes do: Pull magic from the air into the item.
Please feel free to ask for adjustments or give me a poke and say it's too early.
Just a heads up: There is a wordcount limit. Fission's been kind when the larger results are interesting, but unless you're really sure you've got something that'll wow him, following the instructions can't go wrong.
-[] Government: The Skaven are governed by a council made up of leaders appointed by the clans that make up their society. This council will delegate leadership to various other people as appropriate, giving them extreme authority to carry out their task.
If you want to make a democratic/meritocracy, you should probably be a bit more explicit about things like elections or what criteria determines leadership. Otherwise the decentralization makes anything bigger than a clan impotent.
--[] Clan Scribes: Responsible for recording and retaining knowledge, the scribes are allowed to access all other clan secrets, though they must keep them secret so long as the clan exists unless requested otherwise. The scribes are meant to provide backup and prevent the loss of knowledge. They also have the knowledge of demons / elementals and can theoretically summon / bind / contain those beings as necessary, though that information is restricted to the greatest of them.
I would say this is probably where you want the Runes focused, along with the scientists. Working with magical entities is always a risky business, as even supposedly friendly gods and their servants can be monomaniacal and want you to die for their cause. Knowing more about what's going on in the Warp is fine, but cognitohazard and other esoteric defenses must exist. An idea can be corrupted into weapon of genocide in the hands of Chaos, so break out your SCP Lore.
--[] Clan Science: The discoverers. The science clan exists to explore the universe, finding mysteries, and discovering things. Out of all the clans they alone will always have their findings published and are encouraged to found other clans to basically play engineer to their scientist. They have been taught how to use extremely volatile and dangerous elements, including warpstone, and know how to use it safely, and dispose of it as well. It is considered a sacred calling to maintain, preserve, and cleanse the enviornment.
This is where the devil will be in the details: Dhar is known to be inferior to High Magic, and all Old One technology involves manipulating the Realm of Chaos. There just isn't a separation between magic and technology, per word of Fission. So if we want Skaven Tech, then non-magical technological research must be mentioned. And if they're in charge of handling Warpstone, bringing up Runesmithing is probably best done here.
 
Note, I'm pointing out that it seems like logically the Old Ones would have or at least have multiple ideas of how to purify Warpstone or even figure them out with some experimentation with the Rat people. As in it doesn't seem like they would absolutely need runes for this. Also bringing up alternatives to using runes since think it would be better for runes to be another races thing since if the Rats figure out warpstone tech they'd already have their own thing.
 
Note, I'm pointing out that it seems like logically the Old Ones would have or at least have multiple ideas of how to purify Warpstone or even figure them out with some experimentation with the Rat people. As in it doesn't seem like they would absolutely need runes for this. Also bringing up alternatives to using runes since think it would be better for runes to be another races thing since if the Rats figure out warpstone tech they'd already have their own thing.
Warpstone is just solidified Dhar, that's canon. Per Fisson, The Old One's don't use it because Dhar is very inefficient compared to High and Earth Magic.

Also, if originality is your concern, they can be called something else: They're functionally Runes, but what if the guy in a lab coat is doing complex equations, geometric diagrams, maybe make a small JOJO reference about Golden Ratios or something? They're doing "math", not "magic".
 
Can we even give out Runesmithing and warpstone science? The QM mentioned we as Old Ones think pretty much exclusively through the winds of magic paradigm and that is how we will be teaching. Warpstone has some parallels with the winds as dhar but that's not a thing that Old Ones approve of. And Runes are absolutely outside the traditional winds paradigm.
 
You know we could just

Ask the QM

@Fission Battery do Old Ones know how to produce runes like Canon dwarves, or do you rule dwarven runes as an original creation of the non-magical species? Also, do they know how to manipulate warpstones, whether through runes or possibly Hysh (Lore of Light)/Qhays (High Magic)?
 
Can we even give out Runesmithing and warpstone science? The QM mentioned we as Old Ones think pretty much exclusively through the winds of magic paradigm and that is how we will be teaching.
we have the geomantic leylines that exist inside the Varanus, we might be able to workshop something that resembles runes using the Varanus as inspiration.
 
Warpstone is just solidified Dhar, that's canon. Per Fisson, The Old One's don't use it because Dhar is very inefficient compared to High and Earth Magic.

Also, if originality is your concern, they can be called something else: They're functionally Runes, but what if the guy in a lab coat is doing complex equations, geometric diagrams, maybe make a small JOJO reference about Golden Ratios or something? They're doing "math", not "magic".
It's not just about originality but aesthetics. For example people have been talking about creating Dwarfs sometime in the future and in canon Runes were the Dwarfs thing. And while I do think we should be more original people understandably want a Warhammer quest to have some similarities to canon and the Dwarfs along with the Elves are pretty iconic to the series.

That said the math thing makes me think that instead of using runes like the Dwarfs do in canon what about something more like Alchemy or Alchemy from the Fullmetal Alchemist series. As in giving them their own unique brand/aesthetic on it that works differently for their own unique uses. Maybe even having their brand needing Warpstone to be powered in the first place.

Warpstone is just solidified Dhar, that's canon. Per Fisson, The Old One's don't use it because Dhar is very inefficient compared to High and Earth Magic.
I think an interesting take on the Rat Race and why the Old Ones would make them is that the Old Ones are experimenting with trying new ways to use something. After all the original plan was to throw things at the wall and see what sticks. And logically the Old Ones should have considered that while they could use things a certain way that's practical for them the other races are just incapable of it because they just lack the Old Ones sheer power and capabilities.
 
Revised Plan. I'm trying to keep the original skaven traits while shifting them towards something productive and useful. The scribes are supposed to be a unique take on rune-work using contracts and paper.

[] Plan: C&D2
-[] Culture/People Name: Virtuous Skaven
-[] Names:2 names. First name descriptive, second name Arabic
-[] Architecture: Elaborate underground areas, with curving structures reminiscent of of Arabic. Above ground structures are typically cloth tents.
-[] Cultural Behavior: Skaven are energetic, flighty, and extremely curious about all things. They love puzzles and mysteries, and it's considered a great gift to give someone one of them, solved or not. It is only when they become serious that they lose their yes-yes attitude and turn into, do it now-now.
-[] Government: The Skaven are governed by a council made up of leaders appointed by the clans that make up their society. In essence, clans select representatives, those representatives are the council. The council will delegate tasks and authority to leaders as appropriate. (IE appoint a general to manage a war.)
-[] Clan Structure: Skaven form clans that have an extreme focus on a narrow range of tasks. Clans can be formed from any unaligned group, but they are not officially recognized by the council until they contribute to society and are acknowledged by the Scribes.
--[] Clan Scribes: Responsible for recording and retaining knowledge, the scribes are allowed to access all other clan secrets, though they must keep them secret so long as the clan exists unless requested otherwise. They also have the knowledge on how to safely deal / summon / contain demons and elementals using scripts and contracts.
--[] Clan Entertainers: Responsible for entertaining the populace. The entertainers are there to ease the inevitable tensions between the skaven and allow for civility to be maintained or retained. They also monitor the populace for subversion, and function as counterintelligence. For defense they rely on secret martial arts taught to dancers.
--[] Clan Science: The science clan exists to discover the universe. They have a custom to publish their findings and are encouraged to found other clans to basically play engineer to their scientist. They have been taught how to use warpstone and other volatile substances in their technology, and can safely contain and dispose of it.
--[] Clan Assassins: This clan practices the art of killing and have specifically been trained in mage killing. When not killing Assassins can function as bodyguards.
--[] Clan Healers: This clan focuses on healing. They will help those in need and know how to purge or remove mutations.
 
Okay, after double checking a few entry's about warpstone, it notes that canon skaven have a somewhat higher tolerance for warpstone compared to other species, but that grey seers need to process/transmute it into refined warpstone that's safer to handle. Handling the raw stuff kills slaves over time. Which is what Always Late said. These skaven probably have a higher tolerance to it thanks to the stacking of traits. If people want to teach these skaven how to refine warpstone that can just be included as knowledge imparted to them. It doesn't have to be runes specifically. There'll be a section for Old One imparted knowledge and tech, so that can be included there.

It is also a bit amusing because there's basically no warpstones in Araby or most of the world at the moment. Translating player concerns and plans to Old One discussion would go a bit like "what if our warp gates spit out a bunch of waste and we can't be arsed to clean it up? Maybe we could have the rats handle it for us." :lol:
 
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Okay, after double checking a few entry's about warpstone, it notes that canon skaven have a somewhat higher tolerance for warpstone compared to other species, but that grey seers need to process/transmute it into refined warpstone that's safer to handle. Handling the raw stuff kills slaves over time. If people want to teach these skaven how to refine warpstone that can just be included as knowledge imparted to them. It doesn't have to be runes specifically. There'll be a section for Old One imparted knowledge and tech, so that can be included there.

It is also a bit amusing because there's basically no warpstones in Araby or most of the world at the moment. Translating player concerns and plans to Old One discussion would go a bit like "what if our warp gates spit out a bunch of waste and we can't be arsed to clean it up? Maybe we could have the rats handle it for us." :lol:
I am wondering is it possible to make then focus on Science, Logic and Innovation maybe rune as secondary rather than Primary as Dwarfs?
 
Actually could it be possible for the rats to be taught to create Warpstone?

Perhaps utilize their magic resistance's ability to shunt the wounds to congeal the Warp into a solid, usable material?

Or rather than warp stone a variant of warpstone that is not simply congealed Dhar? Perhaps solidified Qyash?
 
I am wondering is it possible to make then focus on Science, Logic and Innovation maybe rune as secondary rather than Primary as Dwarfs?
Why not just Alchemy? IIRC in canon Warpstone was actually used for Alchemy and Alchemy seems like it would be the magical equivalent of chemistry. Which would synergize well with Skaven type technology. Think this works better so that they don't split focus with the intended tech.

It is also a bit amusing because there's basically no warpstones in Araby or most of the world at the moment. Translating player concerns and plans to Old One discussion would go a bit like "what if our warp gates spit out a bunch of waste and we can't be arsed to clean it up? Maybe we could have the rats handle it for us." :lol:
That seems like it would actually be pretty in character for the OOs. Now imagining an Old One that realizes that they have a very large stockpile of Warpstone that no one bothered to clean up due to the hassle and deciding that the Rats seem like they would make great disposals for the stuff while maybe finding an actual use for the stuff.
 
Why not just Alchemy? IIRC in canon Warpstone was actually used for Alchemy and Alchemy seems like it would be the magical equivalent of chemistry. Which would synergize well with Skaven type technology. Think this works better so that they don't split focus with the intended tech.


That seems like it would actually be pretty in character for the OOs. Now imagining an Old One that realizes that they have a very large stockpile of Warpstone that no one bothered to clean up due to the hassle and deciding that the Rats seem like they would make great disposals for the stuff while maybe finding an actual use for the stuff.
Alchemy more or less focused on using winds. More scientific based Chemistry and Physics seem better alternative for them. They lack any advantages in magic better focus on purely scientific system and methods.
 
You don't want one Clan Science, there is too much science out there for one clan.

Clan Stone: Earth science and civil engineering, buildings and tunnels.
Clan Metal: metallurgy and machines. Clockwork and weapons.
Clan Flesh: Healers, animal breeders.
Clan Wood: plant scientists, agriculture, weaving
Clan Water: Chemistry, alchemy, dyes.
Clan Fire: also chemistry and alchemy, but theirs goes boom! Possibly infection and public health too (clean with fire to make safe safe).
Clan Mystery: Astronomy, Math, economics and logistics. If you can't touch it or make it, go to them.

That is at least seven different science clans to go off and have their own crazy ideas.
 
I think an interesting take on the Rat Race and why the Old Ones would make them is that the Old Ones are experimenting with trying new ways to use something. After all the original plan was to throw things at the wall and see what sticks. And logically the Old Ones should have considered that while they could use things a certain way that's practical for them the other races are just incapable of it because they just lack the Old Ones sheer power and capabilities.
I am more in favor of viewing it as "disaster proof". The Old Ones are trying to make ways for things that aren't their absolute best to be used if for some reason their default/best becomes inaccessible. If they can't manipulate the Realms and use High Magic, then Dhar/Warpstone can be used to make a lesser version if XYZ protocols are followed.
Actually could it be possible for the rats to be taught to create Warpstone?

Perhaps utilize their magic resistance's ability to shunt the wounds to congeal the Warp into a solid, usable material?

Or rather than warp stone a variant of warpstone that is not simply congealed Dhar? Perhaps solidified Qyash?
There is exactly just such a thing. Power Stones that channel a single wind. The Loremasters of Hoeth make them, and occasionally the Empire's college of magic. When I get off work, I can pull out my old copy of WHFRP, Realms of Sorcery 2E.
 
Fission has not shot down my Comic Book Uranium Warpstone plan yet, which obviously he can at any point but does leave me hopeful.
 
It is also a bit amusing because there's basically no warpstones in Araby or most of the world at the moment. Translating player concerns and plans to Old One discussion would go a bit like "what if our warp gates spit out a bunch of waste and we can't be arsed to clean it up? Maybe we could have the rats handle it for us." :lol:
Okay but that makes perfect sense. We use dogs to clean up messes we can't be bothered to pick up, they use rats
 
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