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Apotheosis- A Deity Quest

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DragonUnitOmega said:
Don't forget Xenos's dear little girl, Nyx! She'd probably know Gywn too, and probably saw him a lot since she's "the fear of unknown things in the dark', aka where predators/hunters usually hide. Though never really cared to interact with him (or any Nightmares before the Quest's Story really) until now.
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TheLordofAwesome said:
I forgot about Nyx!
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Who the heck is Nyx? There's Erebus, but I don't see a Nyx on the Nightmares List.

Nomadic Maniac said:
Oh, the way I think about Gywn they almost definitely get along with Samedi being a frequent member of his parties due to their sociable attitude.

Xeno probably knows Gywn well and remembers when they were little more than a mad beast, hell at Gywn's worst xeno and screamsaver more than likely had to physically restrain them from going after the radiant knight, because their desire to attempt to consume the banishing blade override any care for the consequences such an action would have. Still, he trusts their current self-control enough that he'd recommend their service to Samhain but to keep a sharp eye on him.

Of course, this is just me spitballing after JUST reading the relevant omakes for these characters.
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I'll be honest, I don't really see why Samedi would be a good fit. Dude got completely walked-all-over by a Demon Lord, to the point he's inexplicably convinced Samhain & Callisto (individuals he has never met and knows next to nothing about) are Totally Demons too like the last 'God' he met.

Definitely checks out to me that Xenos would know Gywn, if you think about it you'd think the Fear of The Unknown would appear regularly with those afraid of predators. Anything new & thus unknown is scary, and anything that has established a willingness to kill leaves the fear you might be their next victim.

I do want to point out that 'Lord' isn't a title- his name really is Lord Screamsaver. Well, very least he's been around long enough that it might as well be. Savius, the Radiant Knight's main claim to 'fame' is ending the stranglehold Nightmares had over Dreamers/Wakers. He's not exactly a pushover, though I guess Xenos and Lord Screamsaver were more concerned with keeping Gywn from being deemed a Threat To Existence.

I'm curious how Gywn viewed the Berstuk Wild Hunt, I don't really want to spoil anything but one of the most relevant things would be that The Wild Hunt had this whole aura of being hunters putting down wild animals instead of heroes killing murderous psychopaths. Really, Leshy and the Wild Hunts seem like a very relevant thing for Gywn... thoughts @nwish425 sir?
 
Kkutlord said:
I'll be honest, I don't really see why Samedi would be a good fit. Dude got completely walked-all-over by a Demon Lord, to the point he's inexplicably convinced Samhain & Callisto (individuals he has never met and knows next to nothing about) are Totally Demons too like the last 'God' he met.
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Eh, less walked-all-over and more inviting the Demon Lord (who was a god of nightmares) ended up so poorly that he makes it a point not to invite gods to his parties anymore. Callisto is also a Dream goddess so she doesn't get invite because Dreams tend not to get along with Nightmares.

Also, there is a large list of people (namely Nightmares) that Samedi invites to his parties, such as the Monarch. His parties are noted to be exclusive and has a list of people he makes a point to send invites to (even though it is largely a formality and he just does it to give his parties an air of exclusivity). I don't see why Gywn wouldn't be on that list.
 
TheLordofAwesome said:
Eh, less walked-all-over and more inviting the Demon Lord (who was a god of nightmares) ended up so poorly that he makes it a point not to invite gods to his parties anymore. Callisto is also a Dream goddess so she doesn't get invite because Dreams tend not to get along with Nightmares.
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@nwish425 wait, did neither of us explain the truth of Samedi's behavior to him? I still remember the insistence the dude is both an Ancient Nightmare who directly served a God and also completely oblivious to the difference between a Demon & a God.

TheLordofAwesome said:
Also, there is a large list of people (namely Nightmares) that Samedi invites to his parties, such as the Monarch. His parties are noted to be exclusive and has a list of people he makes a point to send invites to (even though it is largely a formality and he just does it to give his parties an air of exclusivity). I don't see why Gywn wouldn't be on that list.
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I never said Gywn wouldn't be, I just don't see why Gywn would be all that impressed when Samedi got bullied by a Stronger Being and even 'killed' by said being. Gywn is the Fear of Predation, 'strong eat the weak' or whatever so I don't see why Gywn would ignore Samedi getting punked on by a Demon Lord & his pet Monster.

DragonUnitOmega said:
i fucking mixed up the inspiration of her name with her name
me
the creator
gaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhh--
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It was on-the-spot, who doesn't need the occasional refresher? Though for others, I personally think they should have investigated things instead of automatically assuming nothing strange was happening. The only reason I pointed it out in-thread instead of a Convo was just because I saw others getting it wrong too.
 
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Kkutlord said:
I just don't see why Gywn would be all that impressed when Samedi got bullied by a Stronger Being and even 'killed' by said being.
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I'm sorry. I'm asking because I'm genuinely confused. What is this about Baron Samedin getting 'killed'? I did not see anything in his omake saying that he was ever killed. In fact, I don't think there was anything even implying that anything violent happened. The impression I got was that the Jester and the Demon Lord were very rude and obnoxious (possibly because de Demon Lord, as a god, tried to boss everyone around). But I did not get the impresion that Baron Samedi actually fought anyone. Where was it said that Baron Samedi was 'killed'?

Kkutlord said:
Gywn is the Fear of Predation, 'strong eat the weak' or whatever
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As a side note. Why does the very interesting and complex 'Prey and Predator' relationship needs to be reduced to such simplistic terms such as 'strong eat the weak or whatever'? Why does prey=weak? In nature, prey often fights back and wins from time to time (Have you seen buffalos beating up lions that fail to hunt them?) Why couldn't Gywn be someone more jovial that respects fair play and the bravery of those who fight back even when they lose or are weak? They could treat hunting more as a sport rather than a battle. The the impression I got from @Nomadic Maniac description is that they valued intellgence and cunning more than raw power.
 
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GuiltyBystander said:
I'm sorry. I'm asking because I'm genuinely confused. What is this about Baron Samedin getting 'killed'? I did not see anything in his omake saying that he was ever killed. In fact, I don't think there was anything even implying that anything violent happened. The impression I got was that the Jester and the Demon Lord were very rude and obnoxious (possibly because de Demon Lord, as a god, tried to boss everyone around). But I did not get the impresion that Baron Samedi actually fought anyone. Where was it said that Baron Samedi was 'killed'?
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Well you see, it was on Discord and @nwish425 agreed it made no sense that Samedi would be both an Ancient Nightmare who was a servant of a Kind Deity and someone who'd have no idea that Demons are completely different from Gods. Instead of assuming I'm just some idiot, maybe you could ask nwish?

GuiltyBystander said:
As a side note. Why does the very interesting and complex 'Prey and Predator' relationship needs to be reduced to such simplistic terms such as 'strong eat the weak or whatever'? Why does prey=weak? In nature, prey often fights back and wins from time to time (Have you seen buffalos beating up lions that fail to hunt them?) Why couldn't Gywn be someone more jovial that respects fair play and the bravery of those who fight back even when they lose or are weak? They could treat hunting more as a sport rather than a battle. The the impression I got from @Nomadic Maniac description is that they valued intellgence and cunning more than raw power.
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Cool, just blatantly ignore that I was just trying to quickly convey my thoughts in a way I figured made sense- I even added on "or whatever" because I wasn't sure "Strong Eat The Weak" properly explained what I meant. I am not good at explaining the things in my head, they make perfect sense to me but I am clearly bad at actually articulating myself in a way that leaves no doubt and/or confusion.

I don't even get why you seem to hate me so much, don't you have better things to do than dunk on some random idiot loser like me?
 
Kkutlord said:
Well you see, it was on Discord and @nwish425 agreed it made no sense that Samedi would be both an Ancient Nightmare who was a servant of a Kind Deity and someone who'd have no idea that Demons are completely different from Gods. Instead of assuming I'm just some idiot, maybe you could ask nwish?
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Ok, thanks for answering. But to be clear, I was never assuming you were and idiot and I never had. I was asking because I, as I said, I was genuinely confused. And I wanted to learn if the information I had about the character was correct or not by asking politely.

Just to clarify, that was not my question. I was asking when was Samedi 'killed', not if he know the difference between Gods and Demons. And I was just asking anyone in this quest who knew, I didn't ask nwish425 explictly because he is currently recovering from an accident and I didn't want to bother him with such a simple question.

Kkutlord said:
I don't even get why you seem to hate me so much, don't you have better things to do than dunk on some random idiot loser like me?
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Woah, Woah, Woah. Hold the phone. I never hated you. It was never my intention to hate anyone, blatantly ignore anything anyone said or to make anyone feel unconfortable. I'm asking these question precisely for the same reasons as you: convey my thoughts. I love this story and I enjoy generating discussion about the characters to hear other points of views about story tropes and/or character archetypes (such as in this case, to learn different views about 'the Hunter Archetype'). And to also potentally inspire new ideas for @nwish425 and everyone here.

If at any point in time I gave the impression that I hated anyone, or that I was speaking with hostility, I offer my sincerest apologies. My number one priority is this forum is to be as polite and amicable as posible. So if a failed to express that, I would like to apologise.
 
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I'm kind of spiteful and impulsive, I'm kind of cynical because I have been mistreated plenty of times prior. I know I shouldn't lash out, but it can be difficult convincing myself I shouldn't do that. Apologies for my behavior.

GuiltyBystander said:
Ok, thanks for answering. But to be clear, I was never assuming you were and idiot and I never had. I was asking because I, as I said, I was genuinely confused. And I wanted to learn if the information I had about the character was correct or not by asking politely.

Just to clarify, that was not my question. I was asking when was Samedi 'killed', not if he know the difference between Gods and Demons. And I was just asking anyone in this quest who knew, I didn't ask nwish425 explictly because he is currently recovering from an accident and I didn't want to bother him with such a simple question.
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I was just providing some context, nwish agreed it made no sense for Samedi to be an Ancient Nightmare that served a God yet is willing to turn against all Deities because of a single bad experience- thus the Demon Lord who 'crashed' his party actually killing him. Granted, death doesn't really stick for Dreams & Nightmares, so all that really did was screw up Samedi's memories. Thinking about it, I probably shouldn't have explicitly revealed all that, again I'm kind of impulsive.

GuiltyBystander said:
(such as in this case, to learn different views about 'the Hunter Archetype')
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Again, in hindsight, I probably shouldn't have made it obvious. Granted, I don't think nwish would have a mental breakdown, he really doesn't seem the type to freak out and demand suffering for anyone who 'spoils' stuff. Honestly, I've seen people throw fits over coincidentally accurate speculation and for not magically understanding 'last chapter' met the Next Chapter preview on Pateron.

Anyways, all I really meant was that I don't see why Gywn would be very impressed with Samedi if Gywn managed to figure out something changed. Fear of Predation, you'd think that would provide Gywn with Sense Power Levels and/or Sense Win-Loss Ratios. If you're a hunter, you should know how dangerous the things you hunt are after all.
 
Kkutlord said:
I was just providing some context, nwish agreed it made no sense for Samedi to be an Ancient Nightmare that served a God yet is willing to turn against all Deities because of a single bad experience- thus the Demon Lord who 'crashed' his party actually killing him. Granted, death doesn't really stick for Dreams & Nightmares, so all that really did was screw up Samedi's memories. Thinking about it, I probably shouldn't have explicitly revealed all that, again I'm kind of impulsive.
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I do not recall this. Are you sure you are remembering correctly?

Edit: I searched the discord to giveyou the benefitof the doubt, I found no mention of Samedi being "killed" or having memory problems. I think you misremembered.
 
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Samhain Art
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    • I apologize for any confusion about Samedi, I am not sure why it's not on the discord but I do recall talking about that at least for a short time with Kkut, if there was a problem with that interpretation then please let me know, I don't really have a problem with it.

    Anyways on to the good news, I have a surprise for everyone. I commissioned a piece of art for Samhain, I hope you all enjoy it. Link to art thread here.

     
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    • TheLordofAwesome said:
    I do not recall this. Are you sure you are remembering correctly?

    Edit: I searched the discord to giveyou the benefitof the doubt, I found no mention of Samedi being "killed" or having memory problems. I think you misremembered.
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    Next time, ask @nwish425 instead of assuming I'm lying.

    nwish425 said:
    I apologize for any confusion about Samedi, I am not sure why it's not on the discord but I do recall talking about that at least for a short time with Kkut, if there was a problem with that interpretation then please let me know, I don't really have a problem with it.
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    I know I brought it up in private, though I thought I did say something in public… I definitely remember trying to explain there's no reason an Ancient Nightmare who works for a God wouldn't know the difference between Demons and Deities.

    nwish425 said:
    Anyways on to the good news, I have a surprise for everyone. I commissioned a piece of art for Samhain, I hope you all enjoy it.
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    So that was the surprise you mentioned right? He looks awesome, not surprising cause Renu. Speaking of, maybe you could link his art thread so everyone knows who did it?
     
    nwish425 said:
    I apologize for any confusion about Samedi, I am not sure why it's not on the discord but I do recall talking about that at least for a short time with Kkut, if there was a problem with that interpretation then please let me know, I don't really have a problem with it.

    Anyways on to the good news, I have a surprise for everyone. I commissioned a piece of art for Samhain, I hope you all enjoy it.

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    Ok, this whole piece is great but the details love the most are the Shark/Wolf like teeth-looking rips on his collar
     
    nwish425 said:
    I apologize for any confusion about Samedi, I am not sure why it's not on the discord but I do recall talking about that at least for a short time with Kkut, if there was a problem with that interpretation then please let me know, I don't really have a problem with it.
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    So it was probably a DM then? That would certainly explain why I couldn't find mention of it on the server.
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    Oooh!! Looking really spiffy. Doing a San Undertale right there.
    Kkutlord said:
    Next time, ask @nwish425 instead of assuming I'm lying.
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    I never said you lied, I suggested that maybe you misremembered. Given you said it was on discord I was going to check the server. I didn't see any mention of those particular aspects and I can't possibly know your DMs so it seemed to me that you did misremember. I apologize if it seemed like I was calling you a liar, but that was never my intention to imply or state that.


    Also, I'm going to say no to Samedi having a memory problem.
     
    nwish425 said:
    Anyways on to the good news, I have a surprise for everyone. I commissioned a piece of art for Samhain, I hope you all enjoy it.

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    Is it now canon that Samhain has 8 fingers on each hand or just one hand? (I counted 8. I think there is one finger pointing slightly off-screen).

    If so that is awesome. It would give an unique character design that would make him stand out more. He could one day gain the titled of "The Eight-Clawed Lord". Or maybe have the image of a Eight-Clawed Hand as one of his symbols that could be put on banners, flags, churches or religious amulets.

    Hell, the number 8 could become Samhain sacred number. And be invoked in rituals, ceremonies, sermons or magical spells.

    Anywhay. Great work by @Renu.
     
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    MagusBlack said:
    Ok, this whole piece is great but the details love the most are the Shark/Wolf like teeth-looking rips on his collar
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    I didn't even notice that, good eye.

    GuiltyBystander said:
    Is it now canon that Samhain has 8 fingers on each hand or just one hand? (I counted 8. I think there is one finger pointing slightly off-screen).

    If so that is awesome. It would give an unique character design that would make him stand out more. He could one day gain the titled of "The Eight-Clawed Lord". Or maybe have the image of a Eight-Clawed Hand as one of his symbols that could be put on banners, flags, churches or religious amulets.

    Hell, the number 8 could become Samhain sacred number. And be invoked in rituals, ceremonies, sermons or magical spells.

    Anywhay. Great work by @Renu.
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    I see it as the hands being a mess of branches and roots in the vague shape of hands as opposed to actual hands. Apparently Renu was inspired by the way AI art mangles hands.
     
    TheLordofAwesome said:
    New Greater Nightmare idea: Octophobia (fear of the number 8) nighmate called the Figure Eight. It is just number 8 that just stands there. Menacingly.
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    What about the Nightmare of Triskaidekaphobia (Fear of Number 13). Many people are afraid of the number 13 and consider it unlucky. Nowadays, the fear is so strong that some buildings skip the 13th floor due to superstition (It could also be just the number 13 floating there menacingly).

    Maybe this could Samhain's Sacred lucky number (If this silly idea ever goes anywhere in the story).
     
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