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All shall Fear her and Rejoice (Worm/Shadow of Mordor+War)

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Neruz said:
Oh sure, it is a good idea to take responsibility for ones actions, but there is a difference between taking responsibility for your actions and considering possession of power to inherently carry an equal quantity of responsibility to use that power on the behalf of others.
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Dude, read what @Jackofcookiejars was actually saying. We're both agreeing with you.

You can do what you want, but everything you do and don't do has consequences.
 
Just A Dude said:
Dude, read what @Jackofcookiejars was actually saying. We're both agreeing with you.

You can do what you want, but everything you do and don't do has consequences.
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*Scratches chin.*

Oh I think I see the issue; I'm not trying to suggest that choosing not to accept responsibility is a good thing, or that other people may not try and force responsibility on to you in spite of your decision, merely that history is full of examples of people who chose not take responsibility for their actions and got away with it: It happens all the time, typically more often when the people in question are rich and powerful than not, as with great power often comes great ability to avoid consequences and therefore responsibility.

A bad choice is still a choice, that doesn't make it any less bad, but it also doesn't make it any less of a choice.
 
I think we're starting to get a little off topic here.

So I'm really enjoying this fic given that it's easily the most original SI into Worm I've seen so far. I'm also happy that the SI actually explained everything to Taylor since there's literally no reason to hide it in this situation.
 
Taylor's being quite excepting, but I attribute that to the shock she must be in at the moment. Still, nice update, and I still look forward to more.
 
Ok, first I apologize for starting this derail that wasn't my intention. Second my only concern with this story is that Talion could do the majority of things that he could because of his own training and experience. The Wraithbond? (Is that the right term) only improved his reflexes and speed with Celebrimbor's the combat stuff was a mix between the two. At least that was my understanding.
 
Oh yeah, pretty sure that both Taylor and the SI are going to have to do some serious training to even come close to Talion's effectiveness in the field. I don't know if the SI got combat experience or just the ability to make someone else a wraith, but either way there's going to be a lot of training in the future.
 
Jpop23 said:
Ok, first I apologize for starting this derail that wasn't my intention. Second my only concern with this story is that Talion could do the majority of things that he could because of his own training and experience. The Wraithbond? (Is that the right term) only improved his reflexes and speed with Celebrimbor's the combat stuff was a mix between the two. At least that was my understanding.
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Firstly, No worries man. Secondly, I thought Talion also got a boost to his strength and durability as a result of bonding with Celebrimbor. Plus like bottomless stamina.

Caldan said:
Oh yeah, pretty sure that both Taylor and the SI are going to have to do some serious training to even come close to Talion's effectiveness in the field. I don't know if the SI got combat experience or just the ability to make someone else a wraith, but either way there's going to be a lot of training in the future.
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Can confirm, there will be training required to make Taylor even partially as effective as Talion was. Lots of training. Luckily, the two will have a lot of downtime for the next few weeks.
 
He isn't any more durable than Baranor or Eltariel, he has more stamina than either and heightened regeneration outside of his drain ability. He flashes to Celebrimbor for those moments when he needs more durability like the high jumps or falls. He might be enhanced strengthwise but Baranor did the same thing in relation to Ologs so not sure.
 
Jpop23 said:
Why? Honestly curious
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It implies that if you have some sort of ability that you are obliged to use it, regardless if you want to or not. Its a famous saying but following it has made Peter Parkers life a dumpster fire. Because he can't leave things alone, canon Gwen Stacey (why god why?) died, he's been cloned, public reveal, the lizard.

All of this would have been avoided if he minded his own business. For someone like Taylor its you have to use them even if you only wanted to use them to keep yourself safe.

Peter Parker isn't anyone to look up to. His life is a wreck, and this is from someone who used to spend what little cash I had on Spiderman and other Marvel comics.
 
Taylor most likely would not get as good as Talion.........remember he is a elite soldier before he became a wrath......unless there was a accelerated learning for mundane skills
 
Shadowcub said:
It implies that if you have some sort of ability that you are obliged to use it, regardless if you want to or not. Its a famous saying but following it has made Peter Parkers life a dumpster fire. Because he can't leave things alone, canon Gwen Stacey (why god why?) died, he's been cloned, public reveal, the lizard.

All of this would have been avoided if he minded his own business. For someone like Taylor its you have to use them even if you only wanted to use them to keep yourself safe.

Peter Parker isn't anyone to look up to. His life is a wreck, and this is from someone who used to spend what little cash I had on Spiderman and other Marvel comics.
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Parker's life isn't a wreck because of his ideals, his life is a wreck because Marvel caters to a certain group of fans who want Parker to always be the poor underdog. That's why he can't be allowed to be a successful research scientist with a wife and kids who is also a strong superhero who makes good use of his connections in the superhero community. It's the same reason people haven't managed to commercialise and mass produce Stark's Arc Reactor for widespread civilian use, because Marvel wants to tell a certain type of story that involves their world continuing to look like ours.
Regarding the story, pseudo-immortality will be very helpful for fighting villains and endbringers. It gives Taylor room to make mistakes and then learn from them to improve.
 
hzuilquigmnzhah said:
mostly because its incorrect
just becasue you have great ability does not mean that you must utilise it and it does not mean that you have a duty to use it for the betterment of others. spider man only subs to this sayin because he is effectively an earth bet parahuman without the conflict drive, he is a traumatised teen who was told by his dyin uncle to "do the right thing" not that im sayin its wrong but this sayin is not as flowery as peeps like to make it out as
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Well, I dearly hope you never get superpowers.
 
JaredDrake said:
Well, I dearly hope you never get superpowers.
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Keep in mind that there's a wide margin between being self-destructively selfless in the pursuit of helping others, ala Peter Parker, and being an evil, self-serving asshole.

Even Clark Kent looks after his own interests more than Parker does.

Me, I look at it like this: Do the good that's in front of you. You should do the right thing when presented with a choice, but you're not obligated to go looking for good deeds to accomplish at the expense of your own life. Keeping in mind, of course, I'd be all over a paid superhero position (except the Protectorate, because that would mean living on Earth Bet) if offered one.

Aaaaand, to get this back on topic... I wonder what Taylor's initial attitude is going to be? I see it somewhere on the range where the more violent versions of Batman overlap with the less violent versions of The Punisher, just given what the Freeflow combat system from the Shadow of Arkham games is like.
 
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RaptorusMaximus said:
Secondly, I thought Talion also got a boost to his strength and durability as a result of bonding with Celebrimbor. Plus like bottomless stamina.
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I thought so, too. I'm pretty sure that all the superhuman stuff (Forging, Enchantng, Brand, strength, durability, stamina) was a result of the wraithbond/wraithpossession but the fighting/tracking/stealth/etc was his original training, boosted by Celebrimbor's own personal experience/nature as an elf.

Tolkien's elves weren't pacifists, they were damned monstrous/terrifying in their own right. Of course, they likely had a different morality system than humans as a result of their culture/race, so they likely didn't see anything wrong with their deeds. After all, very few people view themselves as "wrong." And even then, people will do things they know/feel to be "wrong" with enough cause/justification/rationalization.

RaptorusMaximus said:
there will be training required to make Taylor even partially as effective as Talion was.
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Woo! Character development coming ahead via training montage!

Mouse197 said:
Taylor most likely would not get as good as Talion
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Give her time and she'll be sneak-branding entire enemy camps just like her dear predecessor! (*sniffle*) They just grow up so fast, you know?

Just A Dude said:
I wonder what Taylor's initial attitude is going to be? I see it somewhere on the range where the more violent versions of Batman overlap with the less violent versions of The Punisher, just given what the Freeflow combat system from the Shadow of Arkham games is like.
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Well, keep in mind that Canon Taylor could've gone Carrie at any point (even before powers) but she never did... Then again, this is a fic with an Alt!Power Taylor (not to mention the nature of fanfiction in general, which I would argue doesn't need to be true to the original material to any extent unless desired by the author, so long as it remains somewhat internally consistent) So perhaps she'll do something different. Either way, I look forward to seeing wha comes next! :)
 
RandomOTP said:
Well, keep in mind that Canon Taylor could've gone Carrie at any point (even before powers) but she never did.
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Oh, certainly; that's why I'm saying she wouldn't go full-on Punisher; just the level of violence in the Arkham games (which were the inspiration for the combat in the Shadow games, anyway). No intentional killing, but having absolutely no compunctions against breaking bones and other serious injuries requiring hospitalization.

But do keep in mind, this version of the trio actually straight-up murdered her. She's got even more reason to go after them than in canon.
 
The flames rise higher and higher, stoked in the indingant rage of trolls.

I wonder what direction the wraith-si will steer Taylor in.
 
RaptorusMaximus said:
The Wraith grimaces. "Well…you aren't actually entirely wrong when you say that…" He says, sighing at his host's look of disbelief. "Alright, I'll start from the beginning. Have you ever read 'Lord of the Rings?'"
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Later,

"How do you know so much about everyone, everything, and the future?"

SI: "..." "Have you ever read 'Worm?'"
 
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Neruz said:
Oh sure, it is a good idea to take responsibility for ones actions, but there is a difference between taking responsibility for your actions and considering possession of power to inherently carry an equal quantity of responsibility to use that power on the behalf of others.

If a person has power that they do not want and makes the decision to not use that power and accept the consequences of doing so, there is nothing inherently wrong with that. Suggesting that they have somehow failed by not bearing an equal amount of 'responsibility' to their power is not an ethically sound argument. Being able to do a thing does not mean you must do the thing, only that you can choose to do so. The importance of choice is the entire point of the illusion of free will, and abrogating that choice should not be considered a good thing, even when justified by the 'greater good'.

Otherwise, where do you draw the line? Follow that logic and it's a surprisingly short path to justifying things like forced conscription. Being stronger and faster than the average person does not magically convey a responsibility to use that strength and speed to fight crime onto a civilian like Peter Parker, not unless he chooses to accept that responsibility for himself. (Preferably by joining the police, but apparently putting on a costume and being a vigilante became ethically acceptable at some point, so that's okay too I guess.)
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The quote isn't telling the person to go use them in specific ways. It is saying that everything you do with greater power has a greater effect. Take it another way, if you are a giant, every step can crush something you didn't see. The quote is in fact telling Peter to be extra careful because he has extra power. Ben never said a dang thing about wearing spandex and stopping crime, only that ... oh wait, by the second paragraph there I am agreeing with you.

So to reiterate, it isn't about a need to use it on behalf of others but that doing so will have other effects --which might be worse than the thing you stopped from happening but you inadvertently cause. Stop a speeding truck to save a child in the road causes the driver to have a heart attack and die. Fair trade, yes? What if that driver would have died three days later when his liver could be saved for transplant --instead he has remorse and drinks himself into jumping from a bridge to becoming a floater. Whether a person with powers KNOWS does not mitigate in the least how the use of such power ripples through causality.
 
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