Alchemical Solutions [Worm/Exalted] Thread 5: Eye Eyes Eyes Eyeing Eye Eyeing Eyes
- Thread starter Gromweld
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- exalted (white wolf) worm
As mentioned before, Iris should have Occult 10, so will be better at it than we will be for a thousand years. Spending more xp on it is needlessly duplicating a competency that our Team Autocthon already possesses is spades. Anything we can do with it, he can almost certainly do vastly better.Kelenas said:
It's almost a pure waste. It will be a total waste when Iris is up to speed on local physics and be build a way to keep in contact with him.
We should focus on things where we have comparative advantage, and let him get on with the things he's best at. We have a party now. We don't need to try to be a jack of all trades, master of none. Instead we can specialise and have the whole be greater than the some of its parts, which is very Autochtonian.
Doesn't change the fact that Occult still has a lot of personal utility as well. If we get a Weaving Engine, for example, there are plenty of spells that use Occult in their dicepools. Likewise, with Iris acting as a mentor, we should be able to learn Thaumaturgy. Lack of Essence is somewhat impeding there, but should be rectified over time, and until then there are still useful Arts we could learn, such as Divination/Probabilistics.Alratan said:
So, no, Occult is far from a waste in my opinion. Especially since Iris might very well require our assistance in building whatever will help bring Autochthon here.
That's very true.XenonPrime said:
He's a Fetich Soul of Autocthon, Primordial of Craft. He's almost certain to have his own charms that enhance craft, and be better at it than we'll ever be. 3rd Circle Demons are competitive with high Essence Solars in their field of expertise, and we're not going to reach those levels for centuries, and only then if we turn into a city. He probably knows that much better than we do.
Not to mention that we can use Hyperbenedicition Apparatus on him, which is the best Alchemical crafting charm.
Iris is a Fetich soul. He should be able to cast Sapphire Circle Sorcery if there's enough Essence around, if he can't already use Weaving Protocols.Kelenas said:
We also need four months of downtime before we can get a Weaving Engine anyway, as it's minimum Essence 4.
As I said, we're in a party now. We need to specialise in our comparative advantages, as that's how we maximise total value. We should leave things like sorcery/weaving protocols for him. The historical evidence suggests he'd be better at it than we ever would be.
Our advantage over him lies on the social front, broadly defined.
Thaumaturgy shouldn't work here. They're cheat codes built into the physical laws of Creation when they built it to make it easier for example, for small gods to maintain it. The local physics shouldn't have those same cheat codes built in.Kelenas said:
We can serve as an assistant with Occult 2 just as well as we can with Occult 3, if I remember correctly.Kelenas said:
I think voting is closed...
Well, that's true, apart from big purchases on Backgrounds, which might take a bit of saving up for. If we get the opportunity to buy another five dot one, having 17 XP on hand might be handy, in case the opportunity goes away.mastigos2 said:
We bought one dot in Swarms (Awareness). he seems to be voting to buy the second.RCa said:
- Location
- .
Did Gromweld see the back of the dress and boots that were added to that costume drawing? There might be another XP for that as well, or maybe I'm too optimistic.
The merchandise would fly off the shelves, though!mastigos2 said:
"We can dump it onto Iris!" is not convincing.Alratan said:
Not yet. And certain Arts that rely on personal abilities might still be viable, such as Probabilistics.
Not if we need to work independently to support him, as was often the case with higher-tier Artifacts crafted in the First Age. Ie, lesser craftsmen (such as Dragon-blooded) created 1-3 dot Artifacts, which the superior craftsmen (Solars, the occasional Lunar or Sidereal) then assembled into higher-tier (4-5 or even N/A) Artifacts.
Heartbreaker: *uses his powers on Taylor' "Now lie down and spread your legs."mastigos2 said:
Taylor: *spends WP/activates ISF* "Yeah... no, don't think so." *shoots Heartbreaker in the crotch*
What? It's not a question of 'dumping it all on Iris'. It's about efficient deployment of very limited resources. As Autocthon's Fetich soul, this should be something he's very keen on.Kelenas said:
Probably not ever. Even when Essence starts getting involved, Creation has been destroyed. There's nothing there imposing the various loopholes and short cuts the Primordials built into it hereKelenas said:
We don't need higher Occult than we have now for that though.Kelenas said:
We simply don't have the time for that kind of thing. Particularly as if we're Crafting artifacts as a team we'd be vastly better off using Hyperbenediction Apparatus on him, not us, so us contributing anything would take months.Kelenas said:
If Heartbreaker's stupid enough to try anything, that's a real upside to taking the Background, as we can just burn some Willpower when he comes and execute him. He deserves it.mastigos2 said:
This Background would give us massive social influence in a wide variety of spheres as well. Four extra dice to throw around is a lot. Consider what that represents
We've seen that here, when used as a Familiar, that's not the case. He built the insect-computer interface pretty handily.XenonPrime said:
Who else would be that bothered? There must be other incredibly beautiful parahumans out there, and we must seem to be more trouble kidnapping than most.mastigos2 said:
Most Geomancy projects are really pretty large scale, as they require geographic rearrangement, and we can always just ask Iris to tell us what to do. We saw when he helped us with our workshop that he was fully capable of this.XenonPrime said:
Eh, the problem isn't beating the enemies so much as making sure that the surrounding region survives the process. Don't forget that the Eye is a fetich soul.uju32 said:
Hence the part about making sure that the surrounding region survives the process.uju32 said:
Jokes aside, a third-circle soul running on limited essence should still be able to overwhelm all but a small handful of parahumans, unless it's an extreme outlier in raw stats. Which is possible but improbable, since Autobot is such a mess-up.
He doesn't seem the type to invest that much effort, or risk the kind of opposition that hitting us like that would incur.uju32 said:
If we're that famous, we're actually protected in lots of ways, as the public would demand that something must be done about him, even more than they currently do. It's not as if he'd be hard for Dragon to kill.
If we've not already attracted his attention, then having a reputation amongst normal society isn't going to do much to change things.uju32 said:
Generally, they're people that don't matter in the broader scheme of things though, or whom our beauty would already offend. Having a Reputation for it won't make any difference.uju32 said:
Having such a Background would help us build the coalition we need to deal with such threats.uju32 said:
We've already raised such a ruckus in parahuman circles by blocking precognition that additional recognition by normal society would be neither here not there with that, but it would help a lot with other things.
IIRC, even without using any of his powers, as a 3rd Circle deva Iris has a base pool of 20 dice for just about everything he cares to do.uju32 said:
Remember the carrot? We could internlsie that because it had been processed. Even though it would still have been alive. As living pieces of biotechnology, all we have to do is touch them, and they should be safely dealt with.uju32 said:
You misunderstand. Coil's power did not 'receive an upgrade'. The interaction between our power and his was simply not favourable to us. Heartbreaker's power will almost certainly be the same as in canon, given what we've seen of Glory Girl's.uju32 said:
No one else has received a competence upgrade, why would his?uju32 said:
This is an argument never to do anything ever that will have macro effects, when we know we have to.uju32 said:
The same as a normal person who has two Tinkers capable of building information gathering equipment, and can survive being shot in the face with a sniper rifle, and do all the other tricks we apparently demonstrated on our reveal.uju32 said:
And the second of those incidents will be world famous.uju32 said:
Once again you misunderstand. This isn't a question of being para human enough, but of whether you're so small and petty that you automatically hate celebrities. Overwhelming people, particularly people who have risen to positions of trust and authority, don't.uju32 said:
Our reputation for beauty has nothing to do with these. We'll produce these reactions thanks to our beauty whether we're famous or not.uju32 said:
That's an advantage, as it gives us influence and social power that we need. Autocthon told us to fix the world, and most of the world's problems are social in nature. This gives us a platform to change it.uju32 said:
We need to kill Coil first, but after them it should be high up the list.uju32 said:
Once again, our beauty is independent of our fame, so this is irrelevant.uju32 said:
I would expect almost every Precog in the world to have tracked it back to us by now.uju32 said:
His performance here doesn't match that at all.uju32 said:
I suspect the eye was demonstrating the very restraint you think he lacks.uju32 said:
You misunderstand again. The carrot proves we can internalise processed living things. The Slaughterhouse Nine are living, processed things. We put them in Elsewhere and never take them out, and study the modifications Bonesaw made to them, including the ones to make herself a virus factory.uju32 said:
- Location
- Fabulously Rainbow Ireland
Or OR just hear me out, after we build a vat we could install Personality Override Spike or what have you and turn Bonesaw back into Riley and y'know not have to kill a seriously screwed up little kid AND get a really awesome Biotinker/possible future little sis on our side?
- Location
- West Michigan
Does Exalted have a Reflect Damage modifier? I usually prefer Attack Damage Converted to Health, but we don't have the DPS-heavy build that requires. What we do have is a fairly decent amount of natural armor and a ton of health regeneration, which goes great with reflection.
If we can get Reflect in our armor, then the more force our opponents use, the faster they'll fall. Someone tries to snipe us again, they'll feel the bullet instead. We get in a fistfight, they'll only hurt themselves. Behemoth or Levi come to town...
If we can get Reflect in our armor, then the more force our opponents use, the faster they'll fall. Someone tries to snipe us again, they'll feel the bullet instead. We get in a fistfight, they'll only hurt themselves. Behemoth or Levi come to town...
FunkyEntropy
Occasionally insightful, possibly grumpy
- Location
- Los Angeles
While the thought of introducing Mannequin to magical robocancer is hilarious, the thought of magical robocancer being brought to Earth-Bet caused my brain to shout HELL NO.mastigos2 said:
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Random, fun idea: Get Iris to cast Authochthonian Elemental Benediction (Crystal) on our new dress so we'd have Appearance SIX in social combat. Nothing could possibly go wrong...
It doesn't(at least, not on a casual search) but you can learn counterattack charms.SwiftRosenthal said:
FunkyEntropy
Occasionally insightful, possibly grumpy
- Location
- Los Angeles
I did a quick scan for PDs for when we get access to Vats (and we should work with Iris to get this up soonish), so here's a quick list of what to get, how to get there, and how much xp and time we'd need. Note: because we need to have a charm slots installed in order to add a new charm to our setup without removing existing ones, I've incorporated the cost (time and xp) of doing so into the figures. With the exception of the Dex Augmentation, I used the 6xp cost for General charm slots so you can subtract 2 from that if we go for dedicated charm slots instead. Additionally, I couldn't find anything in MoEP: A that mentioned how long it takes to install a submodule, so I put it down as taking a day to install and moved on.
Perfect Dodge
12xp 6d - Accelerated Response System (dodge) - Ignore [Dexterity] worth of penalties to DDV. Good for equipping heaver armor and ignoring flurry/onslaught penalties.
12xp 7d - Precalculated Evasion System: Perfect Dodge, can't dodge undodgeable attacks and environmental effects where dodging would be completely inconceivable (such as immersion in a pool of acid)
=> Dex 5 via 4th Augmentation (10xp, 3d) or Attribute purchase (6xp, 7d)
=> 6xp 1d - Transphase Engine submodule - PES can be used to dodge undodgeable attacks and environmental effects by becoming momentarily immaterial. Apply normal DDV pool against things that can attack immaterial essence beings. Can also phase through barriers thin enough to move through with a ticks worth of movement.
Perfect Parry
12xp 6d - Accelerated Response System (parry) - Ignore [Dexterity] worth of penalties to PDV. Good for ignoring flurry/onslaught penalties.
10xp 3d or 6xp 7d - Dex 5 via 4th Augmentation or Attribute purchase
12xp 9d - Impenetrable Repulsor Field - perfect parry even vs unblockable attacks and all-encompassing environmental effects.
Useful Dex charm that builds off the above
12xp 8d - Celerity Enabling Module - As per ARS (dodge/parry), except ignore all penalties to the corresponding DV. Spend a WP to have this benefit vs a single opponent for a scene.
Perfect Soak
18xp 11d - Subcutaneous/Exoskeletal Armor Plating x2 - Extra armor. Either Internal or Obvious (although both can stack with armor), grants [2L/3B soak and 1L/2B hardness] or [3L/4B soak and 2L/3B hardness] respectively per installation.
12xp 9d - Transitory Invulnerability Engine - Perfect soak. Reduce raw and final damage of an attack or effect to zero.
Useful stamina charm (req. S/EAP)
12xp 6d - Light-Etched Interceptor Barrier - +3 DV cover bonus vs all attacks. Lasts a scene.
=> 3xp 1d - Emergency Overcharger submodule - perfectly parry a single attack at the cost of causing LEIB to deactivate.
=> 4xp 1d - Essence Absorption Screen submodule - Gain motes if a damage source is completely energy based (fire, lightning, radiation, essence, etc).
TL;DR - the fastest and cheapest path to a Perfect Defense is to go for the Dodge-based one, at a cost of 24 xp and 13 days. 20xp if we use dedicated charm slots. Unfortunately this leaves us vulnerable to undodgeables, so shelling out another 16xp and 4d min. to get the submodule would be wise.
Perfect Dodge
12xp 6d - Accelerated Response System (dodge) - Ignore [Dexterity] worth of penalties to DDV. Good for equipping heaver armor and ignoring flurry/onslaught penalties.
12xp 7d - Precalculated Evasion System: Perfect Dodge, can't dodge undodgeable attacks and environmental effects where dodging would be completely inconceivable (such as immersion in a pool of acid)
=> Dex 5 via 4th Augmentation (10xp, 3d) or Attribute purchase (6xp, 7d)
=> 6xp 1d - Transphase Engine submodule - PES can be used to dodge undodgeable attacks and environmental effects by becoming momentarily immaterial. Apply normal DDV pool against things that can attack immaterial essence beings. Can also phase through barriers thin enough to move through with a ticks worth of movement.
Perfect Parry
12xp 6d - Accelerated Response System (parry) - Ignore [Dexterity] worth of penalties to PDV. Good for ignoring flurry/onslaught penalties.
10xp 3d or 6xp 7d - Dex 5 via 4th Augmentation or Attribute purchase
12xp 9d - Impenetrable Repulsor Field - perfect parry even vs unblockable attacks and all-encompassing environmental effects.
Useful Dex charm that builds off the above
12xp 8d - Celerity Enabling Module - As per ARS (dodge/parry), except ignore all penalties to the corresponding DV. Spend a WP to have this benefit vs a single opponent for a scene.
Perfect Soak
18xp 11d - Subcutaneous/Exoskeletal Armor Plating x2 - Extra armor. Either Internal or Obvious (although both can stack with armor), grants [2L/3B soak and 1L/2B hardness] or [3L/4B soak and 2L/3B hardness] respectively per installation.
12xp 9d - Transitory Invulnerability Engine - Perfect soak. Reduce raw and final damage of an attack or effect to zero.
Useful stamina charm (req. S/EAP)
12xp 6d - Light-Etched Interceptor Barrier - +3 DV cover bonus vs all attacks. Lasts a scene.
=> 3xp 1d - Emergency Overcharger submodule - perfectly parry a single attack at the cost of causing LEIB to deactivate.
=> 4xp 1d - Essence Absorption Screen submodule - Gain motes if a damage source is completely energy based (fire, lightning, radiation, essence, etc).
TL;DR - the fastest and cheapest path to a Perfect Defense is to go for the Dodge-based one, at a cost of 24 xp and 13 days. 20xp if we use dedicated charm slots. Unfortunately this leaves us vulnerable to undodgeables, so shelling out another 16xp and 4d min. to get the submodule would be wise.
Noting that if we have to defend someone else Parry or Soak has significant perks over Dodge.
The increased innate soak we get along the way to Transitory Invulnerability Engine would let more attacks be shrugged off, making it better for dealing with elite mooks.
Impenetrable Repulsor Field blocks everything, including for instance, a Sting, Phir Se or Scion attack aimed at us and anyone we're protecting, even if it would be a transdimensional environmental destruction attack.
Also the flaws of invulnerability linked to them need to be kept in mind. Temperance kills our offense in exchange for the Perfect. Conviction requires that we be carrying out suitable orders(this being Worm, this is chancy), Compassion requires that we be leading or protecting others while using the defense and valor is probably bad tactically. We can spend double on the charm to install two different flaws(in which case Temperance and either Conviction or Compassion as secondary is best)
The increased innate soak we get along the way to Transitory Invulnerability Engine would let more attacks be shrugged off, making it better for dealing with elite mooks.
Impenetrable Repulsor Field blocks everything, including for instance, a Sting, Phir Se or Scion attack aimed at us and anyone we're protecting, even if it would be a transdimensional environmental destruction attack.
Also the flaws of invulnerability linked to them need to be kept in mind. Temperance kills our offense in exchange for the Perfect. Conviction requires that we be carrying out suitable orders(this being Worm, this is chancy), Compassion requires that we be leading or protecting others while using the defense and valor is probably bad tactically. We can spend double on the charm to install two different flaws(in which case Temperance and either Conviction or Compassion as secondary is best)
Uh, I'm pretty sure you got the XP and the days wrong.FunkyEntropy said:
Buying an Alchemical Charm is not like other charms. They are split into two things: Slots, and the actual Charm. Slots tell us how many charms we can have equipped, since as a magical robot we can switch out our array of charms with access to the vats.
All of these charms are for favored attributes, so that is 4 XP for a Dedicated Slot if we want to have them permanently.
The charm itself costs 6 XP. If Gromweld wants to set our charm XP costs to standard Solar costs like the rest of the costs, that should be 4 XP, as right now Alchemical Charms have the normal Celestial cost (10 XP for a favored Charm, 12 XP for nonfavored).
Acquiring a favored charm requires (Attribute Minimum) days, it is only unfavored charms that require (Attribute Minimum + Essence), so you can chop off several days from every one of those choices.
FunkyEntropy
Occasionally insightful, possibly grumpy
- Location
- Los Angeles
As a matter of course? Not sure.Carrnage said:
If we get Omnisituaitonal Evasive Equation, then yes.
Scroll of Errata said:
Noting that we very likely could perform a Swarm Parry with Impenetrable Repulsor Field. And there's a bunch of convoluted things that could be done with the War charms(though too costly unless we get dramatically cheaper slots)Jinnt said:
That'd be a sight to see alright.