Gromweld
Learning By Mistake
Why, that first option certainly looks like a very Compassionate thing to do...Uruloki said:
Alchemical Solutions [Worm/Exalted] Thread 2: Bullsh*t Magical Robot Girl
- Thread starter Gromweld
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By the way, could you give us a rough overview of what the advantages of Apprenticeship vs. Wards-Joining are? As far as I can see there aren't really any, since as a Ward we'd still be mostly working with (and learning from) Armsmaster.Gromweld said:
Driven by Apathy
Formerly known as Brain_Caster
[X] Option #3: Dodge & Delay
While it's not excatly what I intended, it seems it's the closest thing I'll get. (For the record, what I intend is basically "Forgiveness & Wards", but with us having legal advice to ensure it actually gets us what we want. I don't think we can count on that otherwise.)
While it's not excatly what I intended, it seems it's the closest thing I'll get. (For the record, what I intend is basically "Forgiveness & Wards", but with us having legal advice to ensure it actually gets us what we want. I don't think we can count on that otherwise.)
Join the #1 Forgiveness & Wards Resurgeance and get our free point of Compassion now!Brain_Caster said:
FunkyEntropy
Occasionally insightful, possibly grumpy
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No, it means you should pay attention to what other people, particularly the QM, have said in thread.Somebodynobody10 said:
Wards option is the best option if your goal is helping Danny because it hews closest to what the PRT wants.Gromweld said:
Driven by Apathy
Formerly known as Brain_Caster
For the record, what I intend is basically "Forgiveness & Wards", but with us having legal advice to ensure it actually gets us what we want. I don't think we can count on that otherwise. Piggot's negotiation style has not demonstrated great concern with our best interest so far.veekie said:
We sign now without having laywer doublecheck everything, it's going to end with Danny getting screwed over only moderately less than would otherwise be the case. And maybe not even that.
The PRT wants Taylor in the Wards. I want to sell Taylor being in the Wards in exchange for Danny's freedom. We need to make sure we'll actually get that before we sign anything.
Except that #1 explicitly includes making a deal in Danny's favor, and it's frankly in the best interest of the PRT to stick to that deal.Brain_Caster said:
Gromweld had basically said that the more we cooperate with the PRT the more leeway they're likely to give us. In the Forgiveness and Wards case, they'd be willing to help Danny as much as they can, because it'd ensure our continued support and collaboration, and it costs them nothing. They have nothing to gain by tossing Danny in the slammer when they could use US as the leash for him. He's willing to kill and die for us. They know that.
Said it before, will say it again. The PRT wants Taylor in their system full stop. If they have ANY sense whatsoever. I mean any sense. They would know she's a gamechanger they want on her side. She's already shown more than enough to make her a priority target.
This is why I was pushing for the wards. She needs allies and backing asap. Without it words is going to get out about her powers and every terminator, dictator, and hairbrained tinpot will want to have them to enhance their tinkers. In the wards she becomes a visible and most importantly protected icon of the government. Makes it a lot harder to make her disappeared.
This is why I was pushing for the wards. She needs allies and backing asap. Without it words is going to get out about her powers and every terminator, dictator, and hairbrained tinpot will want to have them to enhance their tinkers. In the wards she becomes a visible and most importantly protected icon of the government. Makes it a lot harder to make her disappeared.
Driven by Apathy
Formerly known as Brain_Caster
Yeah, but what kind of deal? And if the PRT is willing to make the kind of deal we need, why would they have a problem with Taylor having a lawyer advising her? After all, we'll be giving them exactly what they want anyway.Kelenas said:
Heck, why not just tell them in clear, unambiguous language, that we'll join the Wards, but not before our dad is free? And that we'll get ourselves a lawyer to finalize any agreement. That way they know that the best way to get exactly what they want is to give us exactly what we want, with no tricks or hidden pitfalls.
FunkyEntropy
Occasionally insightful, possibly grumpy
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Or, you know, it's the most likely option to get us what we want anyway regardless of legal representation because the PRT likes it when people play along.Brain_Caster said:
So, quoting for the third time in the hope that it'll finally stick.
Gromweld said:
Driven by Apathy
Formerly known as Brain_Caster
That's putting a lot of trust in them. Trust I do not have. Trust it would be extremely foolish to have in a situation like this in real life. Wanting legal advice for a crucial negotiation like this is not an unfriendly act or a sign of being unwilling to cooperate, it's standard practice. A government agency like the PRT should be expected to know that.FunkyEntropy said:
Yes. I've noticed. The problem is that it's equally true that the more we dance to their tune, the more they can simply take without giving us anything in return.FunkyEntropy said:
You mean except for the GM outright saying they will do more stuff for us if we don't make a fuss and just join them outright?Brain_Caster said:
What goes around, comes around, or stops. We have an exemplary level of cooperation so far, do they want to jeopardize that for something minor? I doubt it, they might do it if something BIG is at stake(like keeping Cauldron hidden), but for other things, what we want to do is as far as they can tell, what they want us to do.Brain_Caster said:
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could we get a vote tally soon.
Driven by Apathy
Formerly known as Brain_Caster
They will do more stuff for us out of whatever generosity they might possess. They will have to do far less stuff for us.Elero said:
In real life, the second approach would usually get you better results. The generosity of government agencies can always be counted on... as long as it isn't inconvenient for them. Chances are what we're going to ask for is going to be at least moderately inconvenient.
FunkyEntropy
Occasionally insightful, possibly grumpy
- Location
- Los Angeles
Then you haven't actually noticed, you're just going along with your preconceived and WRONG notions about what they'll do.Brain_Caster said:
The QM has explicitly stated that the more we play along, the more we get what we want.
And then you turn around and say, "NUH UH! THEY WON'T." And then you stomp your feet like a petulant child in your continued denial of reality.
Dude, he disagrees, no need to get offensive about it.FunkyEntropy said:
I highly doubt that a contract stating that our father gets probation and we join the wards in exchange would be even remotely legal and we're talking about a under-the-table deal here, where trying to get a lawyer might even be counterproductive.Brain_Caster said:
meianmaru
The Devourer of Fiction
My front page tally has everything from the last thread plus the first page of this thread. Add to it everything beginning from the second page and you have the correct vote tally.Jinnt said:
Subtracting vote changes of course.meianmaru said:
Driven by Apathy
Formerly known as Brain_Caster
No. He has stated the more we play along, the more they give us on a silver platter.FunkyEntropy said:
The problem is that we want certain things they'll never give us on a silver platter. Or at least a real government agency wouldn't, and for the moment I have to assume they'll reason and act in a similar manner.
Our goal is nothing less than "get all charges against my dad dismissed." That's not as easy as them saying "ok", and it's done. It will require an investment of credibility and political capital on their part, and an insititution like theirs wouldn't spend that capital just because they're feeling generous.
They might spend it because they have to in pursuit of getting a high-value cape into the fold. That's what I'm counting on.
If you get the GM to openly state that we'll get better results with option 1, I'll happily change my vote. But until then you're talking out of your ass when you say he has explicitly stated as much.