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Age of Ice and Blood: A Pathfinder System Heroic Fantasy Quest

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Travler66 said:
I think going to Ibanora is pointless.

We dont need to go on a detour for just a bunch of dragon bones or find out about a new foe. We can do that another time.

Getting back to Orinilu is more important, who know's what's been happening since we've been gone.
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Agreed.

Given travel times and lack of long distance communications, this sort of detour just doesn't make sense to me. We're not heading back to Orinilu for the hell of it, after all, but because we've got shit to do there and obligations to fulfill, including checking up on our people and holdings.
 
Travler66 said:
I think going to Ibanora is pointless.

We dont need to go on a detour for just a bunch of dragon bones or find out about a new foe. We can do that another time.

Getting back to Orinilu is more important, who know's what's been happening since we've been gone.
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Goldfish said:
Agreed.

Given travel times and lack of long distance communications, this sort of detour just doesn't make sense to me. We're not heading back to Orinilu for the hell of it, after all, but because we've got shit to do there and obligations to fulfill, including checking up on our people and holdings.
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The dragon bones are themselves a source of information, as we've got a plan to question a dragon skull, to get answers directly from the dragon. These answers are important becase we now know for a fact there's a global plot to get the dragon age back, and we've already clashed with dragonspawn who seem to be related to that.

Without this point about the dragon skull information I would agree with you, but with it being pertinent Ibanora investigation outweighs all other Orinilu points for me.

There's also a matter of time, if we are to investigate it, we better investigate it now, when the trail is hotter and our opponents less aware of the things happening and are still somewhat off-balance from losing a valuable agent.

And another point, exactly because of travel times and lack of long distance communication it's not unexpected for travellers to not arrive on schedule, it would be one thing if it would take literal several months, but Ibanora is not that long of a detour and we do not intend to tarry there, just get in, do our business and get out.
 
myrix said:
but Ibanora is not that long of a detour and we do not intend to tarry there, just get in, do our business and get out.
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That is in no way certain. We are heading into unknown territory that we only know the name of and it's very likely we'll stay there longer than we need to.
 
myrix said:
The dragon bones are themselves a source of information, as we've got a plan to question a dragon skull, to get answers directly from the dragon. These answers are important becase we now know for a fact there's a global plot to get the dragon age back, and we've already clashed with dragonspawn who seem to be related to that.

Without this point about the dragon skull information I would agree with you, but with it being pertinent Ibanora investigation outweighs all other Orinilu points for me.

There's also a matter of time, if we are to investigate it, we better investigate it now, when the trail is hotter and our opponents less aware of the things happening and are still somewhat off-balance from losing a valuable agent.

And another point, exactly because of travel times and lack of long distance communication it's not unexpected for travellers to not arrive on schedule, it would be one thing if it would take literal several months, but Ibanora is not that long of a detour and we do not intend to tarry there, just get in, do our business and get out.
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The Dragon skull isn't even a guaranteed source of information, though, as @DragonParadox told us that trying to use Speak with Dead on it could cause it to act out dangerously. No clue what that means, but that kind of thing normally involves a caster level check, and since the best source of Speak with Dead effects we can currently access is a magical fungus, the caster level it uses would probably be minimal.

There's also the fact that we have enough enemies as it is. We're not certain to get more if we go to Ibanora, but we have a good chance of it. The asshats who stole the Dragon bones might not see us as enemies now that they've gotten what they want. If we continue to pursue them, they might turn their attention back to us.
 
Goldfish said:
The Dragon skull isn't even a guaranteed source of information, though, as @DragonParadox told us that trying to use Speak with Dead on it could cause it to act out dangerously. No clue what that means, but that kind of thing normally involves a caster level check, and since the best source of Speak with Dead effects we can currently access is a magical fungus, the caster level it uses would probably be minimal.

There's also the fact that we have enough enemies as it is. We're not certain to get more if we go to Ibanora, but we have a good chance of it. The asshats who stole the Dragon bones might not see us as enemies now that they've gotten what they want. If we continue to pursue them, they might turn their attention back to us.
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We know what would happen when we'll try to question the dragon skull, it would try to kill us and the priestess performing the questioning magic,
DragonParadox said:
*rolls arcana* It would be dangerous to do so, dragons are so much more powerful in soul as much as in body that even the print of their souls might gain some manner of arcane presence, which is to say the skull might try to kill you or for that matter the priestess
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but we've got a plan to do the questioning without it getting in the way:
myrix said:
Hey y'all, while we are discussing things, I thought about something else.

When we'll return to Orinilu we'll certainly would make a trip to the dead man's brain cave to bring it back to Ikomi's temple to question the heads we got, right?

DP gave us some discouragement from trying to question the dragon skull,
DragonParadox said:
*rolls arcana* It would be dangerous to do so, dragons are so much more powerful in soul as much as in body that even the print of their souls might gain some manner of arcane presence, which is to say the skull might try to kill you or for that matter the priestess
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but there is a way to do that.

We'll need 3 things:
1. Convince the priestess to try and that we'll be able to protect her.
2. Convince her to allow us to bring a party of non-affiliated fighters to Ikomi's temple.
3. Slay the acting up skull if required.

3 is relatively easy, we killed it once, we can do that again, that Tender and her party is no longer with us is offset by our better weapons, better levels, Zentragt and Drums of Haste and that the skull will be just a shade of the real thing.

1 and 2 probably would not be easy even with all the Diplomacy bonuses we can bring to the table, including Roland's skills, Zaia's liquid magic and Inge being favored by Ikomi, but we have a hook:

Anisi, who is affiliated with Ikomi's temple, who is a fighter freely allowed there and presumably have some say there, is really worried about the dragons:
DragonParadox said:
She greets your news of finding Anjo Oru in the north with worry but little in the way of surprise, though seems far more perturbed about the dragon. "Dragons are like the bones of the earth, and when the bones of the earth shift cities fall my old master used to say. Little enough faith and courage will serve you against the elder of that get."
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When we'll return to Orinilu, we are going to touch base with her (we have a good relationship with her, so we should do that regardless, but we also have a standing deal with her to buy interesting things for Esha and Zaia, so we'll definitely do it).

We tell her all the news about the daemons and dragons, including that we've met dragonspawn and that it seems there might be someone somewhere aiming to bring the dragon age back, and then we ask her to help us convince the priestess, with probably 2 gradations of mutually beneficial deal:
a) Help us convince the priestess and be present for the questioning.
b) Help us convince the priestess and be ready to help us defend her and put the acting up skull to rest, get to ask 20% of questions.

I'm positive that with Anisi that worried, her having the pull in Ikomi's temple and us having more bad dragon news and being good at diplomacy we can convince her and with her help convince the priestess. In the worst case we'll just get XP from killing the dragon skull, while in the best case we'll get that XP and then get these juicy dragon answers.

What do you guys think?
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Regarding those who stole the dragon bones, Esha said that we couldn't trust them to not go after us even if we'd let the thief go,
DragonParadox said:
"I aslo think he is a pawn and we should not trust his words to bind his masters."
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now that we've killed him, their valuable agent, shown willingness to wreck their plans and actively confronted their schemes, they obviously would be opposed to us, and that means the more we know about them, the better. It's bad when a foe we know nothing about pops us and wrecks our shit, I would like to mitigate that.

Overall I'm not arguing that going to Ibanora is better in every regard than staying the course to Orinilu, but that on balance given our current situation and goals possible benefits of detour are great enough to do it.

The arguments both for Ibanora and Orinilu were laid out pretty comprehensively, now the quest voters can judge for themselves what they would prefer, or pick an alternative they would like in any other way if they would like to break the tie.
 
Goldfish said:
We're not certain to get more if we go to Ibanora, but we have a good chance of it. The asshats who stole the Dragon bones might not see us as enemies now that they've gotten what they want. If we continue to pursue them, they might turn their attention back to us.
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These enemies seems very persistant.
 
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Still tied. I'll leave this up until morning and if it does not settle by then I'll roll a d2. It's not my preferred method, but I'll do it to unstick things if necessary
Adhoc vote count started by DragonParadox on Jul 9, 2022 at 4:06 PM, finished with 44 posts and 8 votes.
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Arc 15 Post 17: Ways and Means
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    • Ways and Means ​

    Twenty Fifth of Olweje-eza (Olweje Ascendant), 1349 A. L. (After Landfall)

    In the end you choose to err on the side of caution over seeking justice. As a needle in the haystack it would be to look for a chest full of bones in a city the size of Orinilu where you again know nothing, not even their tongue with no threads to pull on but the make of a sword and bronze studded sandals. That is not to say you do not get anything out of the thief's ill fated journey. Anotnio now wears the glistening armor to match his cathide boots and once the body had been given up to the sea the head had been kept.

    "It may not be a dragon," Esha had said, "But it might still hold secrets to why and how we have been chased so far. The dragon-swan in the fey-heaven and now this, a stranger on Anwa ships, a storm from the sands."

    "You wanted to go to Ibanora didn't you?" You ask, trying not to sound defensive. She was not one of the leaders of the Fellowship and so her counsel had not been asked in the matter.

    "It has been a while," she musses. "Most of the people I owe money to among the aumenti, the citizen-farmers should be dead, of old age if not of wars or rebellion among their serfs."

    "Ibanora sees many such rebellions?" you ask, shying away from thoughts of her age. You are after all making for the Mouth of the World, where there might linger still the ships which had almost barred your way before. Would they be as willing to let you pass now, hold bulging with treasure or are they even there to begin with.

    "Who do you think the Immortals sharpen their blades on most often?" She laughs, but it is more a sound of scorn than mirth. "They say 'bandits' and 'rivals', what they most often mean is the people of their land and of their blood, who are none too keen to spill that blood on the altars of the sorcerer smiths. Those cities which pay them tribute do so only grudgingly and some think that the Tin League would be at each other's throats with stone knives if it were not for the threat of Orinilu and their own allies, bound by subtler threads."

    "You don't sound like you like them very much," you offer, leaning on the door frame slightly, head tipped in askance.

    "I don't, that is what makes visiting so fun," she answers with a far more honest laugh.

    Over the last few days the ship had not just returned to its original heading, but she had also started making good time as though eager to leave the troubled waters of the outer sea for shelter beyond the Mouth of the World. But as the coast of what would in another world be the Magreb falls off curving towards the west there is some kind of commotion in the crow's nest.

    "Sure as I'm a seamen and the son of a seaman its moving about like the spine of some beast," the fellow on watch says scampering down.

    Antonio looks... a touch queasy which you had not seen out of him of late, or indeed ever on his ship. "I think she's trying to change something, with the blood I mean, but she does not know what we want."

    Esha is still deep in her studies of the latest grimoire and had asked you not to call on her outside of battle, storm or some other emergency, so you will have to do with Antonio's less refined senses.

    What aspect does the Marcella take on?

    [] Stealth

    [] Strength

    [] Sagacity

    OOC: Esha has been rolling well for the spells, but she can't be everywhere.
     
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    • You give us such difficult choices, @DragonParadox. :o

    They're all tempting for one reason or another, but choosing between Sagacity and Stealth is hard. Any chance you could give us a hint to what each option actually means?

    I'm assuming Stealth either gives her the ability to outright hide, like making a Stealth skill check, probably only applicable beyond a certain range, or to change her appearance, like a Disguise Self spell sized up for a ship?

    For Sagacity, I would guess it's similar to an Awakening type effect, one that firms up her personality and makes it so that she can more easily understand and interact with the world?
     
    Goldfish said:
    You give us such difficult choices, @DragonParadox. :o

    They're all tempting for one reason or another, but choosing between Sagacity and Stealth is hard. Any chance you could give us a hint to what each option actually means?

    I'm assuming Stealth either gives her the ability to outright hide, like making a Stealth skill check, probably only applicable beyond a certain range, or to change her appearance, like a Disguise Self spell sized up for a ship?

    For Sagacity, I would guess it's similar to an Awakening type effect, one that firms up her personality and makes it so that she can more easily understand and interact with the world?
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    Those vague words are all Antonio's very much human and non-wizard brain can translate unfortunately.
     
    [X] Stealth

    So far we have been in trouble every single time we passed Gibraltar-
    I just want to get through there once without issues.
     
    Stealth might be the best one since so many rude visitors have been to your ship. Pirates is one thing but there's also stealthy spies, thieves and kidnappers.
     
    I'm going to go with Stealth, even though I really want Sagacity.

    Being able to hide herself or even change her appearance will be really useful for Marcella and hopefully will reduce our pirate encounters somewhat, but my main reason for choosing Stealth is the hope that it will be a hard counter to the Track Ship spell. It's a low level spell with a long duration, and the Focus component, a piece of the ship being tracked, can be used repeatedly. Since it's so easily accessible to various types of casters, and with sea travel being the prime method of moving people and goods quickly (not to mention the prevalence of Anwari pirate assholes all over the damned place), it's likely a common use spell on this world.

    I've long suspected that more than one such fragment has been surreptitiously taken from Marcella, either when she was being repaired or just by someone with a knife sneakily prying up a splinter with a knife while she was sitting in port. We've had more than one instance of pirates and/or enemies finding us much too easily at sea for there not to be shenanigans in play, and I think some if not all of those shenanigans can be blamed on Track Ship.

    [X] Stealth
     
    [X] Sagacity

    Wisdom should allow for Marcella to both better use her abilities and know when to use them. Considering we lack an expert on Far Realm denizens among us, she's the closest thing to an expert on herself around. She needs to be able to think more independently and effectively I think.
     
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