I would like an alternative suggestion for the designation: Opposing Aliens or OPAL for short
Yeah, but nothing stops them from ramming in several impactors as an orbital bombardment and then landing their forces after ours got devastated. Honestly, in light of the alien fleet not deaccelerating, I think we need to go with something like Plan White to prevent our mobile forces from being caught up in the possible blast radius. We don't necessarily need to order them to attack the landing zones if they are not vulnerable, they can conduct a (fighting, perhaps) retreat back to the urban regions if necessary.
[X]Plan War of the Biter
-[X]Plan Orange
-[X]Form Auxiliary Troops
-[X]Surge of Electronics Production (-10)
-[X]Munitions Plants (-15)
-[X]Artillery System Development (-30)
-[X]Build Fortified Works in the Mouran Sector (-30)
-[X]Build Fortified Works in the Eastern Sector (-20)
-[X]Partial Retreat From the Orbitals (-10)
-[X]Anti-Orbital Gun Upgrades(1/2) (-35)
150/150
Changed the plan slightly, but im still mulling over Blue vs Orange. Given the knowledge that the enemy is going to be here faster the grand spoiling attacks might be the best option anyways, since we're only getting fortifications ready in half the sectors before go-time. The vast majority of our forces are still gonna be light infantry, and the fortified works put up will hedge our critical industries. Im considering focusing on the southern instead of eastern sector to protect the richest natural resources we have, but the Eastern Sector has much more obvious targets, and given our rich planet I think we can make do in the worst case scenarios. Otherwise I think the mobilisation plan should be the same- still preparing for the long war but trying to steal the initiative temporarily from the enemy. We've been doing high intensity exercises for 4 human year equivalents, got tens of thousands of IFVs and more then a thousand tanks, as well as a couple hundred VTOL multi-purpose jets. Following up our immediate nuclear strikes with massed mechanized assaults should give us the best shot at discombobulating enemy command structures and bleed them early, and afterwards they'd have to follow up with digging infantry supported by mechanized assets out of the massive fortified works we've constructed in the key sectors. Its hedging our bets still, and I'd massively preferred not to do this, but since we cant harden everywhere I think we need to take bold action instead of standing still.
Edit: Slight edit, given the enemy is coming faster and Im committing to a counterattack- im going to delay Quantum Computing to get artillery. Dovetails nicely with Munitions Plants, and get us an actual full combined arms team. Quantum Computing is a huge benefit in the long war, but for now we need to blunt the enemy at the beaches.
-[X]Plan Orange
-[X]Form Auxiliary Troops
-[X]Surge of Electronics Production (-10)
-[X]Munitions Plants (-15)
-[X]Artillery System Development (-30)
-[X]Build Fortified Works in the Mouran Sector (-30)
-[X]Build Fortified Works in the Eastern Sector (-20)
-[X]Partial Retreat From the Orbitals (-10)
-[X]Anti-Orbital Gun Upgrades(1/2) (-35)
150/150
Changed the plan slightly, but im still mulling over Blue vs Orange. Given the knowledge that the enemy is going to be here faster the grand spoiling attacks might be the best option anyways, since we're only getting fortifications ready in half the sectors before go-time. The vast majority of our forces are still gonna be light infantry, and the fortified works put up will hedge our critical industries. Im considering focusing on the southern instead of eastern sector to protect the richest natural resources we have, but the Eastern Sector has much more obvious targets, and given our rich planet I think we can make do in the worst case scenarios. Otherwise I think the mobilisation plan should be the same- still preparing for the long war but trying to steal the initiative temporarily from the enemy. We've been doing high intensity exercises for 4 human year equivalents, got tens of thousands of IFVs and more then a thousand tanks, as well as a couple hundred VTOL multi-purpose jets. Following up our immediate nuclear strikes with massed mechanized assaults should give us the best shot at discombobulating enemy command structures and bleed them early, and afterwards they'd have to follow up with digging infantry supported by mechanized assets out of the massive fortified works we've constructed in the key sectors. Its hedging our bets still, and I'd massively preferred not to do this, but since we cant harden everywhere I think we need to take bold action instead of standing still.
Edit: Slight edit, given the enemy is coming faster and Im committing to a counterattack- im going to delay Quantum Computing to get artillery. Dovetails nicely with Munitions Plants, and get us an actual full combined arms team. Quantum Computing is a huge benefit in the long war, but for now we need to blunt the enemy at the beaches.
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[X] Plan Ardens Hastae
-[X]Plan Orange
-[X]Focus on the Mobile Formations
-[X]Decentralization of Chemical Industry: (-40 Mobilization Capacity for 3 Months)
-[X]Surge of Electronics Production: (-10 Mobilization Capacity) (Incompatible with Decentralization)
-[X]Rapid Plutonium Production: (-40 Mobilization Capacity)
-[X]Found the Defense Engineering Command: (-10 Mobilization Capacity)
-[X]Quantum Computing Systems: (-25 Mobilization Capacity)
-[X]Militarization of Orbital Defenses: (-25 Mobilization Capacity)
Turn one will set the standard. A barrage of cheap shots is our best bet.
-[X]Plan Orange
-[X]Focus on the Mobile Formations
-[X]Decentralization of Chemical Industry: (-40 Mobilization Capacity for 3 Months)
-[X]Surge of Electronics Production: (-10 Mobilization Capacity) (Incompatible with Decentralization)
-[X]Rapid Plutonium Production: (-40 Mobilization Capacity)
-[X]Found the Defense Engineering Command: (-10 Mobilization Capacity)
-[X]Quantum Computing Systems: (-25 Mobilization Capacity)
-[X]Militarization of Orbital Defenses: (-25 Mobilization Capacity)
Turn one will set the standard. A barrage of cheap shots is our best bet.
[X]Plan War of the Biter
Chimeraguard
We do deserve to exist.
[X]Plan War of the Biter
[X] Plan War of the Blue
[X] Plan War of the Blue
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- Location
- New York
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X]Plan War of the Biter
Y'all are voting for a plan that doesn't let us understand anything the enemy is saying, conscripts millions of randos to build ground fortifications which will be destroyed in literal seconds, and focuses on conventional artillery over nukes.
I'll say again: -50 to combat rolls. That's not going to work.
I'll say again: -50 to combat rolls. That's not going to work.
DkArthas
CAPITAL IS TO BLAME
- Location
- Earth
- Pronouns
- They
[X] Plan War of the Blue
-[x]Plan Blue
-[x]Form Auxiliary Troops
-[x]Surge of Electronics Production (-10)
-[x]Munitions Plants (-15)
-[x]Quantum Computing Systems (-25)
-[x]Build Fortified Works in the Mouran Sector (-30)
-[x]Build Fortified Works in the Eastern Sector (-20)
-[x]Partial Retreat From the Orbitals (-10)
-[x]Anti-Orbital Gun Upgrades(1/2) (-35)
@Adronio old plan with a slightly different name. I liked it better. I feel like a counter attack is foolish if combined with Auxiliary Troops that reduces our manpower advantage. We should dig in until we can get a fully combined arms force with sufficient aircraft, armour and artillery ready for a slugfest.
-[x]Plan Blue
-[x]Form Auxiliary Troops
-[x]Surge of Electronics Production (-10)
-[x]Munitions Plants (-15)
-[x]Quantum Computing Systems (-25)
-[x]Build Fortified Works in the Mouran Sector (-30)
-[x]Build Fortified Works in the Eastern Sector (-20)
-[x]Partial Retreat From the Orbitals (-10)
-[x]Anti-Orbital Gun Upgrades(1/2) (-35)
@Adronio old plan with a slightly different name. I liked it better. I feel like a counter attack is foolish if combined with Auxiliary Troops that reduces our manpower advantage. We should dig in until we can get a fully combined arms force with sufficient aircraft, armour and artillery ready for a slugfest.
- Location
- Pennslyvania
- Pronouns
- She/They
[X]Plan War of the Biter
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
I'm not sure how much damage we can expect from kinetic impactors launched from the alien fleet in mid-flight at a great distance from the planet.
First, I'm not sure what their physical size or top speed is; my rule of thumb for impact energies is that at 0.01c (3000 km/s) you get one kiloton of impact energy per kilogram; energy scales with the square of the velocity so you can crank things up or down from there. How much weight of shot can they be throwing at us, and how fast are they going when they do it?
Second, I'm not sure those shots would actually be on the right vector to hit the planet at all unless they are in fact missiles (that is, capable of a significant course change to hit the planet). The aliens could put their ships on a trajectory that permits them to launch impactors that would hit us with minimal guidance effort, of course, but we'd know it if they were doing it because they'd be "pointed straight at us" rather than moving in a direction that enables them to rendezvous with us after slowing down a lot. A map of the trajectory for "make your shots fired at top speed intersect the planet on a ballistic trajectory" and the trajectory for "make sure that if you brake to zero relative velocity with the planet you're actually AT the planet" will not look at all the same.
Third, if the aliens are launching impactors from interplanetary distances, they either (3a) have a major targeting problem or (3b) aren't really aiming at all.
In case (3a), they're trying to hit targets from millions of kilometers away; their ability to resolve precise locations on the planetary surface is going to be a bit limited since as far as we know they have no prior reconnaissance of Danaan on relevant historic timescales. Suppose we're worrying about a megaton-class weapon (read: multi-ton impactor traveling at a few thousand km/s or multi-hundred-ton impactor traveling at a few hundred km/s). Even with that kind of blast radius, here are a lot more places on a planet where hitting that point will do nothing relevant for your war effort than there are places where it will be decisive enough to be worth expending a bulky munition. If you are at all interested in conquering and exploiting the planet, you don't want to literally carpet-bomb it with megaton-range impactors, even if you have the ability to do so, so you want to be able to aim to hit a relatively pinpoint target ("there, not 100 km to either side of there.") This, in turn, significantly increases the cost of the projectile and requires a lot more effort to go into guiding it.
In case (3b), they're going to need to effectively carpet-bomb the planet to accomplish much of military significance, which means they need to throw a LOT of tonnage at us, and also means they're losing a lot of potential economic value from conquering us. I can see why they'd want to do the latter given how obvious it is that we're going to fight back hard, but it becomes a question just how much of the former they can manage. How many tons of impactor did they bring, and how fast will they be tossing it at us?
First, I'm not sure what their physical size or top speed is; my rule of thumb for impact energies is that at 0.01c (3000 km/s) you get one kiloton of impact energy per kilogram; energy scales with the square of the velocity so you can crank things up or down from there. How much weight of shot can they be throwing at us, and how fast are they going when they do it?
Second, I'm not sure those shots would actually be on the right vector to hit the planet at all unless they are in fact missiles (that is, capable of a significant course change to hit the planet). The aliens could put their ships on a trajectory that permits them to launch impactors that would hit us with minimal guidance effort, of course, but we'd know it if they were doing it because they'd be "pointed straight at us" rather than moving in a direction that enables them to rendezvous with us after slowing down a lot. A map of the trajectory for "make your shots fired at top speed intersect the planet on a ballistic trajectory" and the trajectory for "make sure that if you brake to zero relative velocity with the planet you're actually AT the planet" will not look at all the same.
Third, if the aliens are launching impactors from interplanetary distances, they either (3a) have a major targeting problem or (3b) aren't really aiming at all.
In case (3a), they're trying to hit targets from millions of kilometers away; their ability to resolve precise locations on the planetary surface is going to be a bit limited since as far as we know they have no prior reconnaissance of Danaan on relevant historic timescales. Suppose we're worrying about a megaton-class weapon (read: multi-ton impactor traveling at a few thousand km/s or multi-hundred-ton impactor traveling at a few hundred km/s). Even with that kind of blast radius, here are a lot more places on a planet where hitting that point will do nothing relevant for your war effort than there are places where it will be decisive enough to be worth expending a bulky munition. If you are at all interested in conquering and exploiting the planet, you don't want to literally carpet-bomb it with megaton-range impactors, even if you have the ability to do so, so you want to be able to aim to hit a relatively pinpoint target ("there, not 100 km to either side of there.") This, in turn, significantly increases the cost of the projectile and requires a lot more effort to go into guiding it.
In case (3b), they're going to need to effectively carpet-bomb the planet to accomplish much of military significance, which means they need to throw a LOT of tonnage at us, and also means they're losing a lot of potential economic value from conquering us. I can see why they'd want to do the latter given how obvious it is that we're going to fight back hard, but it becomes a question just how much of the former they can manage. How many tons of impactor did they bring, and how fast will they be tossing it at us?
Remind me again what you suggest as an alternative?
Ultimately I agree about going on the offensive. While "attack the landing zones" is the most predicable response and one they'll likely be expecting, I'd much rather they be forced to focus on our army rather than be given leeway to pick their targets. As for the drive by shooting theory, I'd prefer that over them occupying the orbit. If they want to give us an extra month of pump out war equipment and mobilize the economy in exchange for maaaaybe destroying an important factory assuming they can score a direct hit on something important in it.
[X] Plan Ardens Hastae
[X] Plan Ardens Hastae
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That would be my plan: Tie them up in orbit as best as possible, veteran mobile forces nuke and otherwise bombard their landing sites, in the meantime protecting our printer capacity and setting up Elf-Com.
Biter is a fundamentally conventional response to an unconventional enemy. We have no response to orbital bombardment but decentralization and long-war strategies, fortification is a futile dying grasp.
Stellarengine676
To eternity we shall ride
- Pronouns
- He
[X]Plan War of the Biter
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Fair enough. Though I'm mainly voting for Ardens Hastae because of the nuke spam. If we yeet a few thousand warheads at their beachheads there's a good chance SOME will get through.
I'm not entirely sure the fortifications are useless, though. There are significant advantages to (1) providing hardened bombardment shelters and (2) making sure small alien ground forces (such as can be transported in a single shuttlecraft) can't just walk all over our resistance.
[X] Plan Ardens Hastae
In this particular case - probably some limited amount, since they are already on trajectory and are not burning to accelerate (to get maximum possible speed for the impactors).
In a generic case, that's not to difficult (for a civilization that makes very advanced spaceships) - assume (a) mining ship(s), factory ship(s) with printers and they can produce sensors/auotamic gudance systems/maneuver engines and they can produce them around asteroid belt.
In this situation the limit would be how much impactors they can lob at the same time, and how much time woul the full cycle take (make/load them into ships, maneuver and accelerate to give them initial speed and trajectory and release them to target). If there is enough of ships, they can overwhelm the planetside civilization's capability to shot the impactors down and rebuild.
Fortunately, this does not seem to be the case here.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
It sounds like you're envisioning a scenario where the alien fleet hypothetically chooses to park in
Whereas I was keeping all my commentary specifically limited to the scenario we now face: an alien fleet that is unambiguously headed right for us, having never gotten a close look at our planet before within relevant historical time, and which may be adjusting course to launch a single volley of impactors at us right now.
Regardless of whether the aliens can manufacture an unlimited supply of impactors later (quite possible), they do not possess those impactors now. All they have is what they brought aboard their ships, and/or repurposed out of other materials already aboard their ships.
This, combined with the actual size and tonnage of the ships and the likely intentions of the aliens, fits together to put some boundaries on just how much bombardment firepower they brought with them, and thus how much is available for them to hit us with here and now. Their hypothetical (likely) ability to chuck entire asteroids at us some time next year or the year after is kind of beside the point, from my perspective.
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- Pronouns
- He
I'm considering the possibility that they're planning a drive-by shooting. Making a hell of a mess out of the orbitals while moving as fast as they can to avoid getting shot at in return, while their sensors are drinking up as much data from the planet as possible. Then they'll turn around and come in slowly to get the actual invasion started.
Interplanetary, rather.
That's probably how the war against the Elves could be won, more or less. Take moons, build outposts there, destroy/capture every spaceworthy craft, destroy everything in orbit, keep bombing launch ramp/space industries. Bring in food/medications/anything else necessary to keep forces in system going.
Make a point strong enough and enforce your "peace threaty". If elves refuse, make bombardments more intensive and THEN bring the landing army - and keep calling for surrender all the time.
Fortunately they brought the army now and it probably cannot be indefinitely parked around - fleet does not seem to have enough supplies for that.
Eh, I took it rather as continuation of your argument about "land based space defences vs naval based space defences against the impactors" which you wanted to made previously.
In this particular scenario the invading fleet does not seem to be configured for the prolonged siege and a lot of bombardment capacity.
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[X] Plan Ardens Hastae