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Ad Astra ex Lutum

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Vi'Talzin said:
Blackstar clarified it, UNISA's new production line will apply it, but not to the old vehicles. If we think we need to update the old IFVs now, we can swich it out with infantry armor, but as is by the end of the month we should have a lot of IFVs fresh from the assembly line with them.
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Given the infantry armor specifically says that stuff like the rebreather is going to take longer, I would prefer to start that sooner rather than later. We can't really do chemical warfare that well if our own troops don't have gas masks yet.
 
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[] Plan Rockets of the K.d.A.
-[]Unrestricted Mobilization
-[]Mild Modernizations
-[]Accelerate Armor Production
-[]Anti-Armor Light Rockets
-[]Platoon Machineguns
-[]Mass Mortar Tubes
-[]Limited UNISA Commitment
-[]Aplique Armor Packages

I am unconvinced of our ability to get the VTOLs into a good shape via crash mobilization with the issues noted even with just the mild modernizations. UNISA is a lot more tempting, but ultimately I think that the infantry is in need of more to fill the gaps in their capabilities. The grenade launcher and WP grenade are not noted to have any particular issues for their production, their expansion being only for equipping absolutely every conscript with them so I would much prefer to focus on the other options.

The anti-armor light rockets will give the infantry a fighting chance should their power armor be stronger than the examples we've had to test against which seems very likely and we need production of them to start now if we want them available in sufficient numbers before they land. The HMGs are the ones firing the 15x120mm round on the rejected standard rifle proposal and will be essential for giving the troops the capability to fight at a distance with our grenade launcher having a somewhat reduced effective range. Its also noted we will be short of artillery even if we start mortar production immediately, making it even worse should we not commit to it right now. Having some sort of indirect fire capability even if its just a man portable 90mm mortar tube is essential for the deployment of smoke at the very least and they can better deliver payloads of WP than the hand grenades.
 
Giving the infantry guys as many weapons as we can will probably improve morale, too. I'm just not sure about unrestricted mobilization compared to as-per-plan mobilization. I don't want to screw the war economy up by trying to spool it too fast.
 
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Rockeye said:
Giving the infantry guys as many weapons as we can will probably improve morale, too.
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I am worried that the shock of facing an enemy that will not die despite being mag-dumped and is pure murder in close combat will destroy morale. Giving people a chance to feel they are more then ablative armor will be critical.
 
By the way, will we have things to spend mobilisation points on next mini-turn? Assuming the next turn isn't just procurement 2.0.

E: I mean more in the sense that whether will we need to spend mob points before we get the next batch.
 
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[] Plan for the Worst
-[]Unrestricted Mobilization
-[]Crash Commitment of Print-Capacity
-[]Accelerate Small Arms Production
-[]Incendiary Impact Grenades
-[]Platoon Machineguns
-[]Limited UNISA Commitment
-[]Aplique Armor Packages

Thought I'd make a plan hopefully change a few minds.

Essentially this plan assumes that the orbital forces/nuclear minefield won't be able to hold them off and the aliens land within the first month, as such I think we need to get the infantry at least capable of fighting back asap, I also took impact grenades instead of rockets because I doubt we'll see many long range engagements I imagine there'll be much more urban hell and they're much more limited in their theoretical maximum kills.

Also dropped armour and took the armaments because the professional units will still get it and, it sounds cruel, but increasing survivability for conscripts isn't worth the -10 whereas letting them actually be somewhat effective in combat is.

Took the limited tank commitment because the full bore option is too much and spools up too slowly to be worth the -50. With this we still have a decent armour contingent and our old armour can still be effective. I'd prefer to take the mobilisation of old vehicles rather than ablique but that's a bit too expensive for the budget.

Also about the VTOLs (which technically goes against the theme of this whole plan), I think are absolutely necessary as they are the only things capable of protecting the merchant marine/our supply lines and can at minimum contest the skies so we aren't crippled by enemy air support at any turn. Even though I agree that there's going to be an absolute ton of teething issues and much more limited quantities than what we'd hope, I don't think we have any choice here.

Either way I think this is our best option, since if we do poorly in orbit then at least we're ready and if we do well, then great, we have more time and money to build out our armour.
 
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I'm looking at it from the other direction, because we aren't sure if the smaller guns will do much against alien armor, but the sheer kinetic force and shockwave of an artillery shell is the sort of thing that should ruin their day no matter what.
 
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I did look at mortars but they seemed very niche, 'smoke rounds and direct fire incendiary bombs.. which cannot be met by drone systems', while useful I'm not sure it's worth the hefty -20, if it were actual guns maybe.
 
Its worth noting that we do have a pretty capable ATGM, like, the shitty panzershrecks Richie is presenting as an option are useful to be sure. But we don't need millions of disposable shitty RPGs as much as we need like, IFVs, Tanks and VTOLs imo.

And again, I would really like to emphasize the important of VTOLs, here is the map of our planet:

Danaan


Needless to say, if we can't contest the air war (not win mind you, we will take horrific losses, even though we have an excellent platform in Richie's own words), and by extension our sealanes, we are absolutely cooked.

Sure, we will have printers distributed everywhere, but where will the raw materials for them come from for example?

Our navy is absolutely obsolete and tiny, it doesn't even have modernized laser AA. It will be attrited extremely quickly, and as opposed to VTOLs we can't build fleets of them a day. Even if the highest budget option for it does not deliver its target, its still the one that will give us the most airframes by far. So we should take it.
 
[] Plan I For One Welcome Our New Alien Overlords
- [] Do not Commit Resources

I'd like to remind the Synod that as a trusted personality, I can be helpful in rounding up others to toil in their underground sugar caves
 
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[] Plan Combined Arms
-[]Unrestricted Mobilization
-[]Accelerate Armor Production
-[]Accelerate Small Arms Production
-[]Incendiary Impact Grenades
-[]Platoon Machineguns
-[]Limited UNISA Commitment
-[]Crash Commitment of Print-Capacity

Made a plan with some more love thrown at infantry at the expense of Tanks and IFVs. The latter should be less of a problem by modernizing our pretty big pile of Type 36s, but not a fan of delaying Tank production, still prefer the other plan. But well, you can't have everything, either we get a shitton of vehicles and aircraft pumping out and delay stuff for infantry or we compromise on the aircraft and vehicles in lieu of infantry stuff. As I've said previously, stamping a machine gun at a converted workshop and making grenades at a former meth den is a lot easier to do and is a capability the aliens will have a harder time degrading than our big shiny aircraft and automative industry which has more fragile logistical chains and are less dispersed. So I figure making the most out of them while we have those industries intact is the best play, especially since aircraft are so important.

Anyway, I will probably not be able to keep up with discussion as much in the next few days. Hopefully we don't doom ourselves turn one lol
 
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Personally i think VTOL is going to be most important these designs are on alien level and we can produce a absurd amounts of them if we are willing to yes there will be massive problems with them but that is true for most war time designs. Personally i just see it like if we don't contst the air we are spread out and easy to pick out one by one but if we contest it we limit their movements and make most operations much more difficult to execute. Almost every war where one side had air supremacy has ended in complete victory and i think we are going to be in the same situation if we don't get our airforce together
 
The only valid response here is pretty obviously something along the lines of looping "TURN AROUND AND GO HOME RIGHT NOW, I WILL NUKE THIS PLANET INTO ASH A SECOND TIME IF IT MEANS TAKING ONE MORE OF YOU FUCKERS WITH US" on all channels while very visibly mobilizing and preparing for a bloody war of resistance to the last elf.

So yeah probably as much infantry equipment as we can afford while frantically distributing printers to every garage on the planet to support continuing resistance if they actually force landings instead of deciding we're too crazy to be worth the trouble.
 
UrWishy said:
The math doesn't look right, do we get the mobilizatiom this turn?

You mean []Limited UNISA Commitment, right?
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Yup, thanks for pointing it out, fixed.
Hianny said:
Personally i just see it like if we don't contst the air we are spread out and easy to pick out one by one but if we contest it we limit their movements and make most operations much more difficult to execute.
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Yup, and more importantly, it can hopefully buy us time even if its not enough to keep them at bay forever.
 
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[] Plan Combined Armor
-[]Unrestricted Mobilization
-[]Accelerate Armor Production
-[]Accelerate Small Arms Production
-[]Mobilize Type 38 Tanks
-[]Limited UNISA Commitment
-[]Aplique Armor Packages
-[]Crash Commitment of Print-Capacity

Taking Combined Arms plan and modifying it a bit to get ourselves 500 semi-modern tanks in the first month even without going all with UNISA. It's been mentioned that type 38 need time and I'd rather not leave perfectly good armor unupgraded. Speaking of, @Vi'Talzin, Combined Arms has a 10 mobilization slack.
 
agumentic said:
[] Plan Combined Armor
-[]Unrestricted Mobilization
-[]Accelerate Armor Production
-[]Accelerate Small Arms Production
-[]Mobilize Type 38 Tanks
-[]Limited UNISA Commitment
-[]Aplique Armor Packages
-[]Crash Commitment of Print-Capacity

Taking Combined Arms plan and modifying it a bit to get ourselves 500 semi-modern tanks in the first month even without going all with UNISA. It's been mentioned that type 38 need time and I'd rather not leave perfectly good armor unupgraded. Speaking of, @Vi'Talzin, Combined Arms has a 10 mobilization slack.
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Edited it to include incendiary grenades. This is a good plan too.
 
And here we go. Invasion time, and it looks like its a big one, because nothing good can ever happen to Ricky.

So, when considering what to do the most important part is looking at what our strengths are so that we can amplify them, and what our weaknesses are so we can either mitigate them or play around them. Without further ado I'll jump into it:

Strengths:
1. Resiliency. Despite our low population we have some extremely serious backbone in our species and nation, at every level. The economy is huge and dispersed, there's very few dependents in our population, we have a massive surplus of labor, we have a very large pool of reservists and surplus officers to help organize and lead them. Our cities are fortresses due to environmental hardening, combined with underground bunkers to harden the civilian population even more. Our troops are effectively supersoldiers all, capable of marching for days on end with no sleep and while carrying stupidly heavy things. The government and military are in it to win it, operating under worst case possibilities of genocidal settler-colonialism.
2. Infantry. Leading into the whole every man, woman and other being a super soldier, we just managed to pump out infantry equipment that might let us just barely compete with the enemy, leaning in on our strengths. We know that our small unit tactics, company and below, are excellent. In the 'small war' we might very well match the enemy, or close enough so that its a fight we'd win due to the previously mentioned resilience.
3. IFV production. It's the one piece of heavy metal we have in mass production- meaning its the one thing we can rapidly expand production for. UNISA's suggestion is the one way we can spool up our mechanization properly without relying on jank solutions with severe problems in the long run.
4. Nukes. They form the first layer of defense, and if we're lucky might bloody the alien invaders before they even set a foot on ground (although given the mass of ship thats looking quite grim. However it also allows us to smash any concentration of enemies that decide its a good idea to dig in. Lacking capabilties to do contested landings, or protect our sea-lines would allow the enemy to dig in on an island for example, and tactical and strategic nuclear weapons can allow us to dig them out of there, despite lacking capabilities elsewhere.

Weaknesses:
1. Unprotected supply lines. We dont have a good way of protecting our shipping- the VTOL can contest the airspace somewhat, but it wont have a chance of getting air superiority. This has grim implications for the state of the economy after the landing. Our technological leaps will mitigate this somewhat, but anything requiring more complex supply lines is going to struggle very rapidly after. This will need to be taken into account when considering what we should invest into.
2. Hostile Orbitals. The enemy will be able to concentrate their forces, will be able to smash industrial assets and many other things with impunity (working under the assumption they survive the orbital ambush). This is another nail against complex supply lines, especially those that can be bottlenecked, and also cripples our strategic mobility.

Following this, things are extremely ugly on a strategic level, but might be workable on an operational and tactical level. The big take-away is that the enemy will have strategic initiative which we cant contest (they have strategic mobility and we dont). This means we need to get ready to take a beating, and do more local counterattacks to disrupt and hurt them. We also need to maximize production of heavy metal in the short-midterm, and by that I mean actual new production, not trying to clean up the rusty hulks. Grit your teeth and do the UNISA thing, we're expecting heavy material losses and thats the only way we might stay ahead of the curve.

Light infantry will have to be the main arm, supported by mechanized formations and some VTOL support, with tactical and strategic nuclear weaponry being the ace up our sleeves to overturn unworkable operational conditions. If we can suck them into combat in built up areas we might get the opportunity to counterattack exposed lines and such. I do not at all believe the ambitious VTOL option will work due to what ive said about complex supply lines breaking down, and combined with the fact that it doesnt really help until after the landings is another nail in the coffin. Sure, the VTOL is great and if we couldve only gotten more out before go-time we would've been in a better place, however we need to work with what we have, not what we want. As such, here is my plan:

[]Plan Hyperconventional Warfare
-[]Unrestricted Mobilization
-[]Mild Modernizations (-10M)
-[]Accelerate Armor Production (-10M)
-[]Accelerate Small Arms Production: (-5M)
-[]Platoon Machineguns (-15M)
-[]Give UNISA Everything (-50M)
-[]Aplique Armor Packages (-10M)

100/100 mobilisation capacity used.

My one regret about this is the lack of mass mortars, as that would give us a very basic infantry-artillery team for even the light infantry. We should start production of that next month, but its not great. However, the type-36 IFV has a heavy mortar variant which means we should have a decent combined arms team for the mechanized forces, meaning the main offensive strike force should have the basics it needs.
 
agumentic said:
Honestly, if we don't commit fully to VTOL production, I am not sure there's a point to committing halfway. If it's going to break down soon, would a bit more VTOLs benefit us more than, say, incendiaries for every conscript?
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If we arent trying to massively expand production we should have it work out longer. The grenades are much more of a desperation weapon- I do intend to get them as well but its no problem to build them later rather than earlier since they're so simple to produce.
 
Blackstar said:
Operation Ethereal Summer: [...] (18)

[...] Deficiencies in equipment have been made up for partially by quality of command and determination and it is expected that just like in the last war these forces will not disappoint.
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Yeah, I am skeptics about that when we rolled 18.

Adronio said:
However, the type-36 IFV has a heavy mortar variant
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Wait, we have? The equipment stat only said "mortar-carrying and artillery-carrying variants are already being considered", but I don't think we actually do anything more about it. The description for SPG/SPAA Systems also seem to implied that it has been skiped in favour of proposed modular system (that we don't have time to build) instead.
 
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