All this "Voldemort is Wizard Trump"/ "Fudge is Wizard Trump" business is Lockhart erasure, and I for one will not stand for it!

(self-aggrandising pathological liar, patently fake appearance, put into a job with no preparation or qualification whatsoever, a feckless incompetent in every field save ruining peoples' brains ... am I the only one who sees it?)
 
All this "Voldemort is Wizard Trump"/ "Fudge is Wizard Trump" business is Lockhart erasure, and I for one will not stand for it!

(self-aggrandising pathological liar, patently fake appearance, put into a job with no preparation or qualification whatsoever, a feckless incompetent in every field save ruining peoples' brains ... am I the only one who sees it?)

It's a lot easier to gaslight people into believing your self-aggrandizing propaganda when you can literally remove their memories, isn't it...
 
Have you considered the environment that always and immediately asking that kind of question fosters for others though as evidenced by the significant push back you've gotten here for even voicing the question? Not every question or curiosity is a valid track to pursue. There's a reason that JAQing off in a thread will get someone infracted and the only real difference is that pretty much everyone here believes that you're asking your questions in good faith.

I'm honestly trying to phrase this and my last several posts as politely and kindly as possible and I'm worrying that in doing so I'm not getting across how very wrong I think it was for you to even ask the question of if G-P was really behaving from a place of transphobia or general ignorance really was in the first place. I don't mean to attack you personally here, but I do want to get across that I think constantly trying to not describe things appropriately because of a worry that it's too harsh, or maybe just maybe not what they meant in their heart-of-hearts, is a deeply troubling line of thinking and not at all a behavior that should be encouraged. It routinely gives, I'll be overly generous and say mostly, unintended cover to actual bigots that they delight in hiding behind and using to obfuscate their own bad behaviors.
*blinks*

No. No, I genuinely had not, because I was coming solely from a place of 'try to figure out and understand this character's motivations'. I'd be tempted to contest the 'always and immediately asking this sort of question bit', if only because I'm literally always asking this sort of question about unclear motives in stories/quests and didn't see the difference here, but I wasn't thinking from the perspective of how it looked from the outside.

If I upset anybody, I do genuinely apologise. And request that next time you just... well, directly set out and explain why what I'm asking/saying is a problem (not give a general answer/explanation, actually specifically address the how and why like this post). Because I honestly couldn't tell why what I was asking was a problem until it was spelled out here.
 
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Voldemort is too competent to be Trump.
I am l tempted to dig up that quite by… I think @Ralson about how Voldemort can only seem to come up with one plan per school year and therefore gets clowned on by anyone with a faster decision loop.

then again, trump seems to have not actually changed his one plan in like at least 6 years now, so maybe.
 
I mean the whole debate about whether it was accidental or that she's mad about being proven wrong seems to miss, like...

"I said boys to the back, Potter. Five points from Gryffindor for disobeying safety-" the Professor began, and the entire class seemed to take in a breath. Holly felt like someone had kicked her in the gut.

She fully just misgenders Holly? This isn't "Miss Potter I'm worried the potions won't work for the unicorns bc they're essentialists" its "Miss Potter, I'm a wretched fucking transphobe"
 
All this "Voldemort is Wizard Trump"/ "Fudge is Wizard Trump" business is Lockhart erasure, and I for one will not stand for it!

(self-aggrandising pathological liar, patently fake appearance, put into a job with no preparation or qualification whatsoever, a feckless incompetent in every field save ruining peoples' brains ... am I the only one who sees it?)

Hey now. As far as we know, Lockhart didn't have daddy's money to fall back on to do his thing. He conned people honestly, with his own two hands.

(I sorta have a soft spot for Lockhart. He's so blatantly, obviously incompetent at everything he does, the whole thing just kin da wraps around, and it becomes genuinely impressive that he's managed to fool everyone for as long as he did.)

I am l tempted to dig up that quite by… I think @Ralson about how Voldemort can only seem to come up with one plan per school year and therefore gets clowned on by anyone with a faster decision loop.

Nah, Voldemort's problem is that he actually comes up with two-three plans per year and tries to execute them all, which results in them crashing into each other and burning.

In the first year, his main goal was revival via the philosopher's stone, but he also decided to murder Potter with a curse, which contributed to the protagonists being aware that something is wrong and ultimately led to the death of Quirrell (then again, without Potter Voldemort would just be stuck at the mirror, so it's not like his plan was all that good to begin with).

In the second year, his main goal is... also a revival, this time by draining Ginny's spirit. Except he also opened the Chamber and released the basilisk for funsies and then decided to lure Potter in instead of, you know, just possessing Ginny the moment he was strong enough, leading her to the Chamber and locking her there until her demise.

It's from the fourth book onward that he stuck with "one plan per year" formula, and his success rate has actually improved greatly.
 
I mean the whole debate about whether it was accidental or that she's mad about being proven wrong seems to miss, like...



She fully just misgenders Holly? This isn't "Miss Potter I'm worried the potions won't work for the unicorns bc they're essentialists" its "Miss Potter, I'm a wretched fucking transphobe"
As I'm now aware that this makes people feel uncomfortable, I'll just point at one of my earlier posts that explains my perspective rather than answering directly. And also request that this topic get dropped, as I don't want to contribute to negative thread feeling but feel compelled to respond to posts addressing this topic.

Also, if this post is too far into making people uncomfortable/unwelcome territory, please tell me. I'm just linking an old post so it seems like it should be okay to me, but I've already proven my judgement in this area suspect.
 
Lockhardt must be quite competent in a number of ways to keep his ruse going for as long as he had. Its likely that had he found some way to apply his talents legally, he could have gone quite far.


And im pretty sure at least in year six, Voldie would have way more than one plan going at the time. Its just only one of these plans intersected Hogwarts and Harry. But he went to war with the whole ministry while head of a small terrorist cult, and won by the start of year seven. That is actually quite the accomplishment, and he didnt do it on just personal power.

Its also possible he had more going during 5 and 7, but we wouldnt have seen. During five he was hampered by secrecy, and 7 its hard to tell what was him and what just his minions.
 
Lockhardt must be quite competent in a number of ways to keep his ruse going for as long as he had. Its likely that had he found some way to apply his talents legally, he could have gone quite far.


And im pretty sure at least in year six, Voldie would have way more than one plan going at the time. Its just only one of these plans intersected Hogwarts and Harry. But he went to war with the whole ministry while head of a small terrorist cult, and won by the start of year seven. That is actually quite the accomplishment, and he didnt do it on just personal power.

Its also possible he had more going during 5 and 7, but we wouldnt have seen. During five he was hampered by secrecy, and 7 its hard to tell what was him and what just his minions.
For Lockheart, I suspect it's less a case of him being competent and more the majority of the magical world being shockingly corrupt and/or incompetent...
 
I think the real question is whether G-P has ever considered that trans people are an actual genuine thing for even a second.

If she has, then she has expressed outright and intentful bigotry toward Holly.

If she's not, then she's making a common and unfortunate mistake of authority figures in considering herself to be the ultimate authority in the classroom then reprimanding a student (that she refers to in a way her ignorance deems correct) for challenging said authority.

Frankly I'm sure many younger trans people have experienced this -- the whole "it's just a phase", "you're not old enough to know that you're X gender (but only if it's different from your AGAB)". Adults often don't say these things to younger trans people out of hatred toward trans people, they say it because they refuse to listen to a child, thinking themselves a better authority despite their lack of experience in the subject.

That said while these are two separate problems, neither can be excused in an educator, when both altogether too often are. Regardless, G-P is just as in the wrong in either case.
 
Teachers and academics that react real badly when proven wrong (esspecially by someone they view as lesser in some way) is a pretty widespread problem, and is kind of sad, since you think as educators and scientists they would thank people for improving their knowledge.
 
Teachers and academics that react real badly when proven wrong (esspecially by someone they view as lesser in some way) is a pretty widespread problem, and is kind of sad, since you think as educators and scientists they would thank people for improving their knowledge.
Not all teachers actually want to be teachers, not all teachers who do want the job are cut out for it, and there are plenty of academics who are in it to stroke their own ego and would rather stab themselves in the eye than admit they were wrong about something. People are people, no matter their job, and that means failings and flaws aplenty.
 
I think the real question is whether G-P has ever considered that trans people are an actual genuine thing for even a second.

If she has, then she has expressed outright and intentful bigotry toward Holly.

If she's not, then she's making a common and unfortunate mistake of authority figures in considering herself to be the ultimate authority in the classroom then reprimanding a student (that she refers to in a way her ignorance deems correct) for challenging said authority.

Frankly I'm sure many younger trans people have experienced this -- the whole "it's just a phase", "you're not old enough to know that you're X gender (but only if it's different from your AGAB)". Adults often don't say these things to younger trans people out of hatred toward trans people, they say it because they refuse to listen to a child, thinking themselves a better authority despite their lack of experience in the subject.

That said while these are two separate problems, neither can be excused in an educator, when both altogether too often are. Regardless, G-P is just as in the wrong in either case.
Both of the possibilities you're describing are "outright and intentful" bigotry. The explicit, purely hate driven, version of bigotry is almost a caricature, since most people don't hate others for the sake of hating people ... well, at least they don't intentionally do that. Instead they will create some sort of reason for their hate or dismissal, so they can feel justified in their beliefs. After all, most people don't see themselves as monsters and only a monster would hate a teenage girl, who's never done anything to them, for no reason.

In truth, their justifications largely serve to excuse their bigotry, rather than the other way around, so it doesn't matter much whether they're reliant on abusing bad statistics or simply dismissing another person's reported experience as invalid for whatever reason. To be clear, whether G-P refused to acknowledge Holly's gender because she's thought about trans people before and actively decided she hates the concept or simply because she dismissed Holly's experience as invalid is irrelevant: both the outcome and fundamental behavior are the same.

Similarly, it doesn't matter if that dismissal is coming from hidebound academic egotism, a balkanized mentality brought on by artificial scarcity, or paranoia induced by the fearmongering of whatever rag she gets her news from. The mindsets, behavior, and ultimate effect on others are all the same. Most of the effective interventions are also probably similar, but they are definitely not the responsibility of a teenage student, so that's not really a consideration either.
 
On the other hand, if ever there was a red flag for Hermione to wave in front of Hagrid to get him off his arse, the insult to Holly would be it

edit:
The implicit insult to his potion making will probably aggravate Snape (assuming Dumbeldore didn't use it as leverage on Slughorn) somewhat
 
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On the other hand, if ever there was a red flag for Hermione to wave in front of Hagrid to get him off his arse, the insult to Holly would be it
I think Ginny's more likely to be the type. She strikes me as someone who definitely takes notes from Gandalf's book:
The Fellowship of the Ring said:
There came a soft knock at the front-door. 'Lobelia again most likely,' Frodo thought. 'She must have thought of something really nasty, and have come back again to say it. It can wait.'
He went on with his tea. The knock was repeated, much louder, but he took no notice. Suddenly the wizard's head appeared at the window.
'If you don't let me in, Frodo, I shall blow your door right down your hole and out through the hill,' he said.
 
Both of the possibilities you're describing are "outright and intentful" bigotry. The explicit, purely hate driven, version of bigotry is almost a caricature, since most people don't hate others for the sake of hating people ... well, at least they don't intentionally do that.
To quote a right wing political activist:

Randall Terry said:
I want you to just let a wave of intolerance wash over you. I want you to let a wave of hatred wash over you. Yes, hate is good
I think you really give the hatemongers of the world far too much credit. For many of them the hate is the point; they like hate.
 
To quote a right wing political activist:

I think you really give the hatemongers of the world far too much credit. For many of them the hate is the point; they like hate.

Yes and no and there's some nuance here.

First of all, you are correct that some people like to hate. It can be cathartic, invigorating, exciting, or just a habit. However, I'd also wager most want to feel justified in their hate; it gives them an excuse to hate even harder and lets them avoid any feelings of guilt afterwards. While the truth is they're hating for the sake of hating, in their minds they're hating for whatever reason they've adopted for the moment.

Additionally, there's a difference between hating and wanting others to hate, as the person you quoted does. Peddling hate is a lot like peddling an addictive drug, you want others to partake of it and then repeatedly come back to your for their fix. There's no real attachment to the substance of the hate, it's just another way to gain power over other people. Don't get me wrong, they probably carry plenty of hate themselves, but just like with their audience I'd bet they find some way to justify their personal hate, for much the same reasons as everyone else.
 
'Sacred feminine Aura'

is it weird that I'd totally expect Voldemort to attribute the above to Holly, in that his ego would reinterpret the prophecy as 'He (greatest of all wizards etc etc) would of course mark a powerful witch as his equal/counterpart etc etc and then defeat and brutally murder her' to fluff his ego (since he can use Holly not coming into herself to justify, at least to himself, his previous defeats by Harry)
 
Year Four, Chapter Twenty Seven
Year Four, Chapter Twenty Seven

"Hagrid! I know you're in there - open up!" Hermione shouted as she pounded on his door. Holly, Ginny, and Ron rushed to catch up to her, and they arrived just in time to see the door to Hagrid's hut swing open.

"About -" Hermione began but cut herself off with a high pitched squeak when she realised that it was Albus Dumbledore, not Hagrid, who was standing in the doorway.

"Good afternoon, Miss Granger. Perhaps you and your friends should come inside," Dumbledore said, standing aside to let them in. Holly walked into Hagrid's hut, and the first thing she noticed was a strong smell of firewhiskey.

"Hi, Hagrid," Holly said, not really sure what to say to him. Hagrid looked up, and for a moment Holly saw happiness on his face. Then it disappeared into a sort of long-term glumness.

"'Lo," Hagrid said, his voice hoarse.

"Everything - everything okay, Hagrid?" Holly asked, sitting down on one of the oversized chairs that littered the hut.

"I'll make some tea, yeah?" Ron said and headed over to boil some water.

"I think that is an ample demonstration of what I have been telling you, Hagrid. These young students still seem to want to know you," Dumbledore said, placing a hand on Hagrid's huge shoulder.

"It's not the students-" Hagrid began, but Hermione seemed to have gathered her courage.

"You can't listen to what that... woman says, Hagrid. She's just completely awful and - well, come back. Please," Hermione said.

"Hermione's right, Hagrid. I know how much teaching Care of Magical Creatures means to you. Don't let Rita Skeeter take it away from you... and we miss you, you know?" Holly said.

"Exactly the sentiments that I have been bombarded with from concerned parents who remember you from their own days at Hogwarts, Hagrid," Dumbledore said.

"Not - not all of 'em," Hagrid said, wiping away tears.

"If you are intent on waiting for universal popularity, Hagrid, you shall be here for a very long time indeed," Dumbledore said, a little more sternly. His eyes gazed very intently at Hagrid through his half-moon spectacles.

"And Professor Grubbly-Plank is awful. She keeps taking points off Holly because she's a prejudiced-" Hermione said, and then she looked at Dumbledore and didn't finish the sentence.

"Do go on, Miss Granger," Dumbledore said lightly, but Holly could recognise the tone in his voice.

"Well, she's just been treating Holly really unfairly - saying she's not a real girl because of some stupid aura," Hermione said.

"I'll be back at work on Monday, Headmaster. I won't stand for that, not in my class," Hagrid said, sitting up. His face was still streaked with tears, but he looked determined.

"A sentiment I share, Hagrid. I shall expect you at dinner tonight in the castle - good afternoon to you all," Dumbledore said, standing as he did so. He walked out of the hut, and hagrid looked at Holly, Hermione, and Ginny. Ron arrived then with the tea.

"I've been right silly about this. I'm sorry you had to go through that 'cause of me, Holly," Hagrid said.

"It's not your fault, Hagrid," Holly said.

"I shouldn't'a just sat around moping. My old dad would be right ashamed of me, he would. Never shown you lot a picture of him, have I?" Hagrid said, and he stood up. He got out an old, faded, wizarding photograph. Hagrid, clearly very young but still about seven feet tall, towered over a short wizard. Holly could see the resemblance, though - the eyes, she thought.

"He had that taken just after I got into Hogwarts. He was so happy - though I might not be able to on account of... on account of my mum. Died in my second year... Dumbledore was the only one who stood up for me after he died. Got me the job as gamekeeper, let me teach. Greta man, Dumbledore - gives people second chances. Let's anyone who can do magic come to Hogwarts, even if their family ain't, uh, ain't all that respectable - or if they turn into a fuzzy little critter every month. Not a lot of headmasters who'd stick their neck out for a half-giant or werewolf. Certainly not the two louts from Beauxbatons and Durmstrang... big-boned - what bollocks!" Hagrid said, and Ron suddenly looked very nervous for some reason.

"You know what, Holly? You reminded me of me a little bit when you first got here. Mum and dad gone, feeling like you weren't quite up to it - and look at you now! Order of Merlin, school champion, youngest seeker in a century..." Hagrid said.

"I - I didn't really do all of that on purpose. Someone entered me, and-" Holly said.

"I know that. But I reckon you probably deserved that award more than most of the tossers they give it to. And... you know what I'd love?" Hagrid said, now looking at Holly quite seriously. "I'd love for you to win it, Holly. Show 'em all you don't have to be some pureblood who fits in all the boxes. That you don't have to be ashamed of who you are," Hagrid continued.
"I'll give it my best shot, Hagrid," Holly said, grinning.

"Hah, I reckon you will," Hagrid said.

Holly's classes were soon back in full swing. She cruised through learning banishing in charms, having already mastered the spell and got several headaches learning basic spell analysis in arithmancy. Hagrid seemed determined to outdo Professor Grubbly-Plank, and he held several lessons on Unicorns - which it turned out he did know quite a bit about. He even had a lesson with several golden-haired unicorn foals, who didn't have the same nervousness around boys as full-grown unicorns, so that the boys could have some hands-on experience.

She kept up her training for the tournament, and while she wasn't a great swimmer, she was in good enough shape that she was now a good enough one. She also learnt, after inquiring with Professor Dumbledore at one of her Occlumency lessons, how to transfigure her socks into flippers. That would let her make up the speed on the other champions, who were all older and taller than she was.

Hermione, Ginny, and Ron all helped Holly hone her duelling - and soon she was facing two of her friends at once to make things even. She was casting faster and had most of the spells she was likely to use in the competition down silently now.

One cold January night, the four of them snuck out to Holly's hidden potions lab in the disused secret passage. Holly looked at her friends, their faces lit only by the glow of the liquid moonlight in their Animagus potions.

"Are you all sure you want to do this?" Holly asked.

"I'm sure," Ginny said, her voice quiet but firm.

"'Course I am, mate," Ron said.

"Holly, if you don't hand over that potion I'm going to hex you," Hermione said. Holly handed Hermione's potion back, having finished looking at it. There seemed to be no obvious defects, just like Ron and Ginny's, but she couldn't know until they transformed.

It was nerve-racking to watch her friends take the potion, each vial being struck by lightning and glowing bright silver. She remembered waiting only moments for her two heartbeats to merge into one, and for her first transformation to be complete.

None of her friends managed a full transformation that night, but they all knew their forms. Hermione shared the rare trait, like Holly's father, of having the same Animagus and Patronus forms - an otter, in Hermione's case. Hermione seemed very happy with that form, and Holly supposed that an aquatic animal like that might be a very useful form - able on land, but excellent in water.

Ginny too was happy with her form - a goshawk. By the end of the night, she'd mastered the trick of transforming just her eyes, allowing her superior vision in her human form - and giving her disconcertingly orange eyes. Holly had never even thought to try it.

But it was Ron who was the proudest of his Animagus form. Where Ginny had manifested her form's eyes and Hermione a coat of fur, Ron had manifested a huge lion's mane. He spent the entire night, and most of the next few days, grinning like a madman.

January seemed to disappear in a flash of classes, and February seemed frighteningly fast too. Holly played another Quidditch match, winning against a team from Beauxbatons, but the fifth year duelling competition wasn't until after the second task - to avoid too many boons being handed out, Holly suspected.

Then, feeling as if very little time had passed since Christmas to Holly, it was the night before the Second Task. She and her friends were relaxing in the Common Room, sitting in their usual seats a good distance from the fire. They were all playing a game of exploding snap when Professor McGonagall walked through the portrait hole and approached them.

"Miss Weasley, Miss Granger - may I have a word?" McGonagall, at the exact moment the cards exploded. After the small puff of smoke cleared away, they all looked up.

"Um, sure Professor. What about?" Ginny asked.

"Tournament business, I'm afraid," McGonagall said, and Holly's eyes narrowed. What could McGonagall want with Ginny and Hermione - unless, a very unpleasant thought struck her, she wouldn't be retrieving an object from the merpeople after all. Would the Tournament organisers really use hostages?

Ginny and Hermione left with McGonagall, and the next morning they were indeed not in Gryffindor Tower. Holly felt her worry grow - surely they wouldn't be in danger, but what if something went wrong? Spells could fail, and wizards weren't exactly known for being very careful about this sort of thing, she thought. The song didn't mention any consequences for the hostages, but...

Holly was shocked out of her worry by Ron, who was waving his hand in front of her face. He was sitting opposite her on the Gryffindor table in the Great Hall. A platter of bacon separated them, and it was tall enough that it was almost hard for Holly to see over.

"You awake, Holly?" Ron said.

"Yeah - just..." she began, but Ron seemed too worked up to listen much.

"Look, do you know where Ginny or Hermione is? Nobody's seen either of them this morning," Ron said.

"I'm fairly certain they're currently safely at the bottom of the Black Lake," Holly said.

"You're kidding me, mate," Ron said, but Holly shook her head. Something had caught her eye, however, and so she didn't respond. Ludo Bagman was at the staff table, and she had to know if her friends were in danger.

Holly had never done it without the verbal spell, but the whispers made it easy. She simply caught Bagman's gaze for a moment and pushed. He had some simple defences, but they were useful only against a surface reading - and only if Bagman knew that she was in his head. As Holly rifled through recent memories about gambling debts and goblins, she knew Bagman had no idea she was in his mind.

Then she found it and left his mind. Her friends would be safe after all - even if she failed, no harm would come to them. She felt faintly dirty for reading Bagman's mind, but she had been so worried about Ginny and Hermione. Still, that justification did very little to banish the sense of unease she felt as she walked out to the Lake.

A huge set of wooden stands had been constructed out on the shore of the lake, along with a wooden platform in the middle with all sorts of bronze pipes running from it. A chair similar to the one Bagman had used at the world cup, with dozens of omninoculars and a microphone, was visible on the platform too.

As she got changed into her swimming costume in the Champion's tent, Holly felt confidant. She knew what she had to do, the route she needed to take. Her bubblehead charm would hold long enough, and she knew how to cast spells - how to duel - underwater. She strapped her wand holster to her forearm, and the enchanted knife Sirius gave her for Christmas to her ankle then put on a pair of old socks.

As she stepped out of the changing booth, Cedric gave her socks a very odd look. Then all the champions headed out to the shore, where they'd receive their boons and the Second Task would begin.
 
"Do go on, Miss Granger," Dumbledore said lightly, but Holly could recognise the tone in his voice.
Someone's in trouble~
"Tournament business, I'm afraid," McGonagall said, and Holly's eyes narrowed. What could McGonagall want with Ginny and Hermione - unless, a very unpleasant thought struck her, she wouldn't be retrieving an object from the merpeople after all. Would the Tournament organisers really use hostages?
I still don't get why the hostages have to be in the lake the night before. Why not just get them up early, or after breakfast?
 
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