MaouShoujoElla
Organics Automata
- Location
- Dark Bramble
- Pronouns
- She/Her
[X] Peerless Grace
[X] The Eminence
[X] Let It Rest
[X] The Eminence
[X] Let It Rest
A Simple Transaction I
- Thread starter Rihaku
- Start date
- Original
She was with us in spirit, does that count?
DkArthas
CAPITAL IS TO BLAME
- Location
- Earth
- Pronouns
- They
[X] Oops, the Soup
[X] The Blade
[X] Let It Rest
We Don't need this much power now. We have already outscaled Apocryphal partially. We are already getting 5 arete, plenty with Let it Rest. That's more than enough.
This option is best for the long term as well. Let's choose to not be short sighted and powerhungry and actually be kind, we have the power to afford that.
[X] The Blade
[X] Let It Rest
We Don't need this much power now. We have already outscaled Apocryphal partially. We are already getting 5 arete, plenty with Let it Rest. That's more than enough.
This option is best for the long term as well. Let's choose to not be short sighted and powerhungry and actually be kind, we have the power to afford that.
Aeira is so stealthy that even the author forgets about her.
Also for the people that vote for Let it Rest. This will bite us in the ass for the next Rap Battle of Primacy. The Azure Ring will talk behind our back and tell the cool Rings that we are a bleeding(heh) heart Ring that is unfit to rule.
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Rihaku
The Internet
He did not ask about Aeira!
ClawClawBite
Mad Engineering!
- Location
- Seattle, WA
[X] Oops, the Soup
[X] The Blade
[X] Ruler & Vassal
We must not drive ourselves to avenge the spilled soup, but it is inevitable.
I think establishing a proper relationship with the new ring is a good starting point, and we can see how it reacts before drawing ire or betting on favor.
[X] The Blade
[X] Ruler & Vassal
We must not drive ourselves to avenge the spilled soup, but it is inevitable.
I think establishing a proper relationship with the new ring is a good starting point, and we can see how it reacts before drawing ire or betting on favor.
- Location
- Pindorama
Yeah, but the Ring would have accepted death than to continue it's torture. This is not about how much power we can extract from the Ring but about our relationship going forward and even about what kind of future we want. And the future where the Rings don't fight for dominance and rise above their nature feels better to me. We can be the better Ring and show them the way forward, but we have to start somewhere. Tyrant already makes us bad enough in this department, I want to mitigate it as soon as possible.
"Other people would have done" it is not a good argument; indeed, one must merely look at the Temple civilization for that. Someone needs to choose to do better if we want to change things, and I want it to be us. We don't need to be stuck in this dynamic.
DarkSideBard
Flying, without moving on
Look y'all, we inevitably acquire arete. We acquire superhuman excellence like they're giving it away. The excellence store is having a sale. They're closing down and everything must go to this sword and ring and cloak chump who just cannot stop himself from showing up.
He can't stop himself from showing up with his wife and daughter over and over again in an attempt to clean out this store with the force of his mid-life excellence crisis. He just doesn't quit. The arete store owner has been running the 5 generation family business for 20 years and knows this guy by name. They nod to each other when they see each other anywhere, but not like an anemic nod but one of those "yeah, I understand you" transendental bro nods. The cashier notices if Hunger doesn't show up and texts his wife and asks if he's in the hospital because he tried to move too much arete at once again.
Hunger's boss and coworkers know because it's all he talks about. At holiday parties he brings a plate of arete and won't shut up about fishing and shit. The 5 billion year company congratulations was a certificate to a cruise where everything is arete. The pool is arete, the deck chairs are arete, the cabin bunks are arete, the food is arete, the fucking ocean is arete! There's enough arete.
So can we just eat soup this one time? Do it for the children.
(This post is officially endorsed by SOUP GANG. The BISQUE MAFIA. STEW CENTRAL TELEVISION LLC. The SOUP-ER-PAC.)
He can't stop himself from showing up with his wife and daughter over and over again in an attempt to clean out this store with the force of his mid-life excellence crisis. He just doesn't quit. The arete store owner has been running the 5 generation family business for 20 years and knows this guy by name. They nod to each other when they see each other anywhere, but not like an anemic nod but one of those "yeah, I understand you" transendental bro nods. The cashier notices if Hunger doesn't show up and texts his wife and asks if he's in the hospital because he tried to move too much arete at once again.
Hunger's boss and coworkers know because it's all he talks about. At holiday parties he brings a plate of arete and won't shut up about fishing and shit. The 5 billion year company congratulations was a certificate to a cruise where everything is arete. The pool is arete, the deck chairs are arete, the cabin bunks are arete, the food is arete, the fucking ocean is arete! There's enough arete.
So can we just eat soup this one time? Do it for the children.
(This post is officially endorsed by SOUP GANG. The BISQUE MAFIA. STEW CENTRAL TELEVISION LLC. The SOUP-ER-PAC.)
That's just her way of not Overshadowing us.
DkArthas
CAPITAL IS TO BLAME
- Location
- Earth
- Pronouns
- They
I vastly prefer the characterization with let it rest. I want Hunger to try to be kind when he can, if he's not willing to show it here when he doesn't really need some extra power and to something that has suffered from countless centuries of torture, when will he? Remember what Accursed told us.
We are an Cursebearer, we need to take the long view of things as well, do we really want Gisena to get affected by an hateful Ring? Sounds like an apocryphal proc in the making. Don't give it opening.
We are an Cursebearer, we need to take the long view of things as well, do we really want Gisena to get affected by an hateful Ring? Sounds like an apocryphal proc in the making. Don't give it opening.
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Zampano
🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈
- Location
- Simping for DSB
Reaction: 3000 Words
Verschlengorge could be arranged like the T.A.R.D.I.S. with amenities shuffled in and out of the most convenient path for the user. I prefer to think that a fully equipped kitchen was a major design choice by the designers who faced size and engineering constraints. Having conceived of a war machine dedicated to shortening the lives of its enemies as well as its Pilot, Foremost Engineer #71253 insisted on the inclusion of a fully equipped kitchen that makes the Pilot's shortened lifespan a little bit more luxurious. And then this inclusion survived through however many committees and revisions as were necessary to coordinate production of the skyscraper-sized robot. That reveals something about the Foremost, if you're willing to hope a little bit and trust in the fundamentally good nature of sentients.
Of course, a more cynical eye might observe that the Kitchen was compatible with Letrizia's fledgling application of Active Rank pressure and might have been the result of a purely utilitarian optimization problem. Enriching or elevating the Pilot's Qualia might cause as much as a four percent improvement in the synchronization among the left shoulder's servo-activators.
{ } Hope a little bit and trust in the fundamentally good nature of sentients
{ } Observe that the left shoulder's synchronization improves by 0.14% if [ ] Oops, the Soup wins.
I guess I'm not done thinking about the soup, because imagine how difficult an engineering task this really is: if Verschlengorge starts walking unexpectedly then the cook could be totally caught off guard. Knife skills would not be a guarantee of safety if you were doing some fine chopping and the entire room jumped fifty meters to the left. Or if there's an imperfection in the gyroscopes then the soup might slosh out of the pot!
Also again: Did Letrizia ever go collect the meals that we ordered from the Encampment? It'll be really funny to me if our only interaction with the society of Moon Liberators was a single intimidating conversation with those merchants.
A good reminder that there are relationship dynamics not represented by mere +s for each party member. We've largely set Letrizia aside as a companion despite her high rank (& Rank, eventually). The chief redeeming feature of the Crimson Flare purchase is that we can bring Verschlengorge along for a more pro-active effort towards mitigating the Decimator's curse via hunting. As it stands, Letrizia's party role is developing towards mascot, which is not a role that I think suits her. Once she gets some real progress towards her Rank studies I hope this will go away.
As the only Noble of the party, she's got to contribute double to prevent teasing about bourgeoisie leeching from the efforts of the working man (& woman)! Heck, Aeria even studied a little bit of economics so I can almost taste the incoming Feudalism jokes at Letrizia's expense.
The SharpBright imaginary element will probably consign Letrizia to the mission control room more often than she'd like, but this will not be a surprise; in the Polities there are already limits in where she can use Versch. (There is still a massive utilitarian downside to using the Skyscraper Robot fueled by withering & attenuation of all nearby life.) That's why she has so many diplomatic talents!
Is there not a parallel here with the Plerion's Vise? We have inherited the Foremost's creation which appears to be content. But the Foremost could very well have engineered Versch to be content with its lot in life. Long eras of complete boredom punctuated with bursts of amusement do not quite ameliorate the pains incurred in Battle. Maybe the Foremost should be condemned for deliberately engineering contentment in their slave.
I think that all options are fairly appealing. I'll try to list some reasons to be excited about each one, but arguments are less word-intensive than reactions and so combining an argument post with a reaction post might be decidedly sub-optimal in the Arete generation game. Oh well.
The first and best reason to be hype for Avenger is that we would Not Die. That's Great! If we do Not Die then we will get to keep playing the quest. Playing the quest for longer means that we will see more cool blurbs and our stats will go up! Also, there's more wordcount for Gisena & magic stuff. Maybe we'll see Hunger Get In The Robot! Making sure we do Not Die is a great strategy for all the Gangs.
In fact, I'm going to use that as reason #2 as well: If we do not die then we will kill Sten and get to buy more stuff. Killing the last best protector for the Ring is exactly the thing to do if you want to unlock Rank increases!
Aside from appeasing everyvoter bloc Gang there is the very important consideration of #aesthetique. The Avenger is very in-line with Hunger's starting characterization. We are playing a man who burned his sense of self on the altar of power in search of the chance to take revenge for a life he no longer remembers. Having been wronged, Hunger will unleash the fury of heaven on whoever dared transgress. This is also fitting for Hunger's role as a former Hero now carrying the Doom of the Tyrant. We do not have to be a callous monster, but anyone who considers violating our sense of Justice should know that there is a huge well of power behind our convictions.
A reason that the blurb itself notes is that this is the cheapest option. Taking Avenger increases our Arete bank by +2. That's a lot of words from the Arete mine. Voters who don't do reactions should think about when their next opportunity to contribute 2 Arete will be!
Two and a half bullet points about the brutality of a win after buying this option might be a selling point for those who think the beneficiaries of millenia spent torturing a sapient mind should carry a corresponding punishment. Using Soul-Flay on Sten might be fully justified under a number of moral theories, and would be therapeutic for the Azure Ring. Satisfying the thirst for retribution is sometimes considered a component of Justice. Doing so preemptively could get us "+s" for the relationship with the Azure Ring, or at least mitigate the harm (?) associated with long-term exposure to a hateful Ring under [] Subordination.
On another more practical level, the cruelty could be the point. Old Sten was the proximate cause of the Ring's imprisonment, and a powerful symbol of the Status Quo (regardless of any sympathy points he earned with referencing Flowers for Algernon). Ensuring the most public and gruesome death we can arrange for the old-guard could be a way to accrue political power over the recalcitrant Noble Houses without resorting to kidnapping. It would be an implicit threat aimed at forestalling any objections to our departure with the Azure Ring.
There are mechanical advantages, of course. Spending on things that are compatible with 25-Arete Imperial Purchases held on layaway does seem to be more efficient than trying to get the Imperial picks by spending all 25 at once. Preeminence: Passion is a rare drop, so we'll probably need to focus on exceptionally dangerous fishing excursions to drop it if we don't take it now.
There's a thematic link between Preeminence and whatever we choose to do with the Ring (conditional on our victory). The narrative has room for Passion as the Crimson Ring takes its place ofPrimacy dominance over the Azure Ring (and unlocks the rest of Crimson Flare).
While I'm hyping each option, I think its worth mentioning that the moral argument posed by this blurb is far and away the most compelling one of the Quest so far. The Utilitarian optimizes from the current moment going forward; heaping retribution on Sten is like pulling the wings off a housefly. Moderately interesting, briefly, (for a sociopath) but ultimately a waste of time. The Deontologist invokes Death as the sentence for Sten's transgression but does not dirty his hands with self-indulgent torture. Above all, the Virtue Ethicist strives for excellence by practicing moderation.
There's a characterization beat here as well. Hunger calls the Azure ring to task for thinking like a human and points it towards a less bloodthirsty approach. There's something neat about a Ring in the shape of a Man chastising a Ring in the shape of a civilization for having a narrow point of view.
What if Hatefulness is Good, Actually? Hear me out. Hatefulness is implied to be Apocryphal bait, and it well might be; the blurb of Subordination explicitly warns about mental contamination. But Hatefulness is also a very human weakness to instill into a Ring of Power that otherwise has a fundamentally alien mindset to Gisena (its Ringbearer). Gisena, by contrast, is a social juggernaut whose conceptual archetype is rooted in the nullification of the supernal. Giving Gisena an item of pure hatefulness is less likely to change or warp her mindset. BUT, giving the Azure Ring a personality trait as easy to manipulate as "hatefulness" is like providing Gisena with an Easy Mode to manipulate the Ring right back. It's a bit of a stretch but giving our social-cognitohazard a handle on the otherwise alien personality kind of appeals to me.
Since I commented about the moral virtue of the Blade build option, I want to comment about the more Aristotelian virtue of Kindness represented by a vote for Rest. Providing succor to a beleaguered cousin satisfies a lot of virtues simultaneously: Courage, in persisting against Apocryphal's unrelenting danger without grabbing for additional power at the Azure Ring's expense; Temperance, in abstaining from the quickest path to power; Justice, in arranging for recuperation following the Azure's long trial in Plerion's Vise; Prudence, in taking a cautious approach to appropriating power from a ring that just spent millennia being vivisected for the benefit of its captors.
There are other virtues I could invoke: Charity, in lending our power during a time of need; Magnificence, in challenging the Jailers directly in their place of power; Pride, in declaring that we would single-handedly end the reign of millennia; Honor, in respect for the trials suffered by the Azure Ring; Friendliness, in reaching out to a kindred spirit; Truthfulness, in dealing fairly with the Azure Ring after it vested us with enough power to buy Crimson Flare; Wit, in recognizing the way a callous decision now might lead to more ruthlessness from Hunger later; Camaraderie, in allowing a peer to grow alongside us (or alongside Gisena).
This blurb also provides a tantalizing clue to the nature of the Azure Ring's psychology; it has offered us fealty by gifting us power enough to buy Crimson Flare and now it will defer to us as the preeminent Ring of Power. Fitting for an equivalent Royal purchase. The idea that Let it Rest could be perceived as weakness is something of a rebuttal to the rant about Aristotelian virtue; does this mean that Azure would consider Rest to be overtly Indulgent? The difference between compassion and weakness is a rich vein for fiction throughout history. It would be a shame to have to put down a rebellion by Azure because it mistook our offer of recovery for inability to rule.
There is something to be said for upholding the implicit social contract that Rings operate within. Instead of trying to outwit other Ringbearers in a game that has lasted aeons, we can just play the winning move. A contractually bound Azure Ring with one or more methods of hatefulness mitigation would be immensely powerful (and, most likely, compliant) in Gisena's hands.
Finally, I just want to note that even though there were intimations that Plerion's Vise was building towards exhausting the power of the Azure Ring, exposition from this blurb indicates that no lasting harm was done. I'm inclined to treat blurbs as out-of-universe exposition, but only if we choose them. Is it possible that not choosing this option would leave open the possibility that there was real lasting damage that Hunger didn't notice or comment on? (No, probably not. Rihaku is mostly a generous DM. But imo that would be a galaxy-brain way to hide a clue in a more adversarial Quest system!)
A R E T E
That is really something else. I'm kind of stunned at the payoff, to be honest. When combined with the gated Crimson Flare boosts we are about to see a major boost in both potency and potential. (That redoubles my dedication to Not Dying this update!) The size of the reward is, admittedly offset by a total lack of hatefulness mitigation; this is a strong argument against my speculation that Gisena could better manipulate a hateful ring. However, I remain convinced that she would be able to resist any mental effects. It does suggest that anyone taking Subordination might want to avoid Avenger, so as to avoid adopting a maximally hateful Azure Ring.
The benefits from a (free!) 7-Arete boost to Hunger are difficult to predict, but we could compare the effects of Rune King or Philosopher's Wreath against this new offer. Magic progression x4 with Edeldross (PW) would hasten the development of pseudo-graces & Findross for real Graces. Azure is a Ring, and our current magic system is from a ring; applying a modified To Shatter Heaven to our Rank 7+ blood buffs would be neat too. But what I predict for the Azure Ring is something considerably more subtle. The thing we lack is utility, and Azure will be able to bridge that gap while we develop our tertiary domains.
More excitement: Hastening Evening Sky by reducing its cost makes it easier for us to save enough. We've been distracted by min-maxing Sword and Ring; this might be the way to make the Mantle competitive again because the rewards promise to maximally enhance Hunger's abilities. If the price reduction for Evening Sky aligns with the free 7-price purchase then we might see some other interactions with other Evening Sky Purchases
EVEN MORE EXCITEMENT: This option foreshadows our purchase of Ruling Ring. We have been spooked by the idea that the Contest of Primacy will be dangerous and risk backfiring. But completely subjugating the Azure Ring will change us from a rabble rouser agitating in small rural villages into a fledgling Lord, eager to extend our dominion. The nature of the contest hasn't been defined but practice maintaining control over a second Ring is almost certainly going to prove helpful. If nothing else, Subordination could deter betrayal by the Azure Ring.
This is an interesting scene because it reveals so much about the amenities inside Verschlengorge. There is room for a spice cabinet, cold storage for raw meat, a cooking range built for slow-cooking methods like simmering a soup, indoor plumbing to provide the base to a clear broth soup, a pot large enough to contain a meal for a man literally named Hunger...
Verschlengorge could be arranged like the T.A.R.D.I.S. with amenities shuffled in and out of the most convenient path for the user. I prefer to think that a fully equipped kitchen was a major design choice by the designers who faced size and engineering constraints. Having conceived of a war machine dedicated to shortening the lives of its enemies as well as its Pilot, Foremost Engineer #71253 insisted on the inclusion of a fully equipped kitchen that makes the Pilot's shortened lifespan a little bit more luxurious. And then this inclusion survived through however many committees and revisions as were necessary to coordinate production of the skyscraper-sized robot. That reveals something about the Foremost, if you're willing to hope a little bit and trust in the fundamentally good nature of sentients.
{ } Hope a little bit and trust in the fundamentally good nature of sentients
{ } Observe that the left shoulder's synchronization improves by 0.14% if [ ] Oops, the Soup wins.
I guess I'm not done thinking about the soup, because imagine how difficult an engineering task this really is: if Verschlengorge starts walking unexpectedly then the cook could be totally caught off guard. Knife skills would not be a guarantee of safety if you were doing some fine chopping and the entire room jumped fifty meters to the left. Or if there's an imperfection in the gyroscopes then the soup might slosh out of the pot!
Also again: Did Letrizia ever go collect the meals that we ordered from the Encampment? It'll be really funny to me if our only interaction with the society of Moon Liberators was a single intimidating conversation with those merchants.
A good reminder that there are relationship dynamics not represented by mere +s for each party member. We've largely set Letrizia aside as a companion despite her high rank (& Rank, eventually). The chief redeeming feature of the Crimson Flare purchase is that we can bring Verschlengorge along for a more pro-active effort towards mitigating the Decimator's curse via hunting. As it stands, Letrizia's party role is developing towards mascot, which is not a role that I think suits her. Once she gets some real progress towards her Rank studies I hope this will go away.
As the only Noble of the party, she's got to contribute double to prevent teasing about bourgeoisie leeching from the efforts of the working man (& woman)! Heck, Aeria even studied a little bit of economics so I can almost taste the incoming Feudalism jokes at Letrizia's expense.
This reveals a character that we haven't met. Yui might be the first named character from the Human Polities? I like the idea of bringing back souvenirs from our murder-trek across the kaleidoscopic Voyaging Realm, at least.
The SharpBright imaginary element will probably consign Letrizia to the mission control room more often than she'd like, but this will not be a surprise; in the Polities there are already limits in where she can use Versch. (There is still a massive utilitarian downside to using the Skyscraper Robot fueled by withering & attenuation of all nearby life.) That's why she has so many diplomatic talents!
Now this is a truly difficult vote decision. Would I pay 1 Arete to make sure Letrizia isn't sad? Yes. Absolutely and without hesitation. But would I pay 1 Arete and also make Verschlengorge go hungry My tall robot child is dutiful and serves without complaint but the aeons are long and true entertainment rare. How crass and miserly must we be to run a calculus of Arete in the face of long eras of boredom.
Is there not a parallel here with the Plerion's Vise? We have inherited the Foremost's creation which appears to be content. But the Foremost could very well have engineered Versch to be content with its lot in life. Long eras of complete boredom punctuated with bursts of amusement do not quite ameliorate the pains incurred in Battle. Maybe the Foremost should be condemned for deliberately engineering contentment in their slave.
How much Arete did we get. You gotta tell us eventually.
I think that all options are fairly appealing. I'll try to list some reasons to be excited about each one, but arguments are less word-intensive than reactions and so combining an argument post with a reaction post might be decidedly sub-optimal in the Arete generation game. Oh well.
OK. Avenger. This was my vote before the consolidation, but that was mostly to try to unseat Preeminence. Now that I look at it on its own merits, I'm pleasantly surprised.
The first and best reason to be hype for Avenger is that we would Not Die. That's Great! If we do Not Die then we will get to keep playing the quest. Playing the quest for longer means that we will see more cool blurbs and our stats will go up! Also, there's more wordcount for Gisena & magic stuff. Maybe we'll see Hunger Get In The Robot! Making sure we do Not Die is a great strategy for all the Gangs.
In fact, I'm going to use that as reason #2 as well: If we do not die then we will kill Sten and get to buy more stuff. Killing the last best protector for the Ring is exactly the thing to do if you want to unlock Rank increases!
Aside from appeasing every
A reason that the blurb itself notes is that this is the cheapest option. Taking Avenger increases our Arete bank by +2. That's a lot of words from the Arete mine. Voters who don't do reactions should think about when their next opportunity to contribute 2 Arete will be!
This option is the one that I wanted to defeat in the previous vote, but there are some very interesting elements that have been emphasized in the new consolidated blurb.
Two and a half bullet points about the brutality of a win after buying this option might be a selling point for those who think the beneficiaries of millenia spent torturing a sapient mind should carry a corresponding punishment. Using Soul-Flay on Sten might be fully justified under a number of moral theories, and would be therapeutic for the Azure Ring. Satisfying the thirst for retribution is sometimes considered a component of Justice. Doing so preemptively could get us "+s" for the relationship with the Azure Ring, or at least mitigate the harm (?) associated with long-term exposure to a hateful Ring under [] Subordination.
On another more practical level, the cruelty could be the point. Old Sten was the proximate cause of the Ring's imprisonment, and a powerful symbol of the Status Quo (regardless of any sympathy points he earned with referencing Flowers for Algernon). Ensuring the most public and gruesome death we can arrange for the old-guard could be a way to accrue political power over the recalcitrant Noble Houses without resorting to kidnapping. It would be an implicit threat aimed at forestalling any objections to our departure with the Azure Ring.
There are mechanical advantages, of course. Spending on things that are compatible with 25-Arete Imperial Purchases held on layaway does seem to be more efficient than trying to get the Imperial picks by spending all 25 at once. Preeminence: Passion is a rare drop, so we'll probably need to focus on exceptionally dangerous fishing excursions to drop it if we don't take it now.
There's a thematic link between Preeminence and whatever we choose to do with the Ring (conditional on our victory). The narrative has room for Passion as the Crimson Ring takes its place of
Knife! This option has a mortal Syn and therefore I feel like I should say the most nice things. Its blurb covers the main selling points: RANK is a hell of a drug. Improving our Blood magic will allow even more esoteric avenues of attack, all of which are about to be unlocked as we come into the power gated behind Crimson Flare's rescue requirement. It'll be cool to be able to actually execute my idea of attacking the Knight Commander by emphasizing that his hands are dripping with the blood of soldiers he sent to die.
While I'm hyping each option, I think its worth mentioning that the moral argument posed by this blurb is far and away the most compelling one of the Quest so far. The Utilitarian optimizes from the current moment going forward; heaping retribution on Sten is like pulling the wings off a housefly. Moderately interesting, briefly, (for a sociopath) but ultimately a waste of time. The Deontologist invokes Death as the sentence for Sten's transgression but does not dirty his hands with self-indulgent torture. Above all, the Virtue Ethicist strives for excellence by practicing moderation.
There's a characterization beat here as well. Hunger calls the Azure ring to task for thinking like a human and points it towards a less bloodthirsty approach. There's something neat about a Ring in the shape of a Man chastising a Ring in the shape of a civilization for having a narrow point of view.
There's an interesting decision implicitly being posed to the voters with these build options. The safest option, Avenger, does not explicitly modify the Azure Ring's "hatefulness". The Riskiest & most gruesome option, Eminence, has the largest effect on this new statistic. So players must weigh their risk of imminent death against an unknown long-term complication. I'm not sure how to value a risk whose incidence & consequences are completely opaque to us, so a little speculation seems to be in order:
What if Hatefulness is Good, Actually? Hear me out. Hatefulness is implied to be Apocryphal bait, and it well might be; the blurb of Subordination explicitly warns about mental contamination. But Hatefulness is also a very human weakness to instill into a Ring of Power that otherwise has a fundamentally alien mindset to Gisena (its Ringbearer). Gisena, by contrast, is a social juggernaut whose conceptual archetype is rooted in the nullification of the supernal. Giving Gisena an item of pure hatefulness is less likely to change or warp her mindset. BUT, giving the Azure Ring a personality trait as easy to manipulate as "hatefulness" is like providing Gisena with an Easy Mode to manipulate the Ring right back. It's a bit of a stretch but giving our social-cognitohazard a handle on the otherwise alien personality kind of appeals to me.
So this option ends on a hell of a mystery box. Bringing a thankful companion with us into the contest of Primacy would be a novel way to mitigate the threat of a Ring Lord arriving on the back of a fully-operational Armament. The conjoined will of two rings would certainly be a way to reduce the threat of massive Rank disparity that spooked the Thread so much as details trickled out about the Contest of Primacy.
Since I commented about the moral virtue of the Blade build option, I want to comment about the more Aristotelian virtue of Kindness represented by a vote for Rest. Providing succor to a beleaguered cousin satisfies a lot of virtues simultaneously: Courage, in persisting against Apocryphal's unrelenting danger without grabbing for additional power at the Azure Ring's expense; Temperance, in abstaining from the quickest path to power; Justice, in arranging for recuperation following the Azure's long trial in Plerion's Vise; Prudence, in taking a cautious approach to appropriating power from a ring that just spent millennia being vivisected for the benefit of its captors.
There are other virtues I could invoke: Charity, in lending our power during a time of need; Magnificence, in challenging the Jailers directly in their place of power; Pride, in declaring that we would single-handedly end the reign of millennia; Honor, in respect for the trials suffered by the Azure Ring; Friendliness, in reaching out to a kindred spirit; Truthfulness, in dealing fairly with the Azure Ring after it vested us with enough power to buy Crimson Flare; Wit, in recognizing the way a callous decision now might lead to more ruthlessness from Hunger later; Camaraderie, in allowing a peer to grow alongside us (or alongside Gisena).
Ironically I wore myself out talking about Aristotelian ethics before I even reached the moderate option! This is a free Royal (FB) purchase. This provides a moderate mitigation to the hatefulness stat. This is a modest but notable boost to Gisena's power and ability to scale with us as we continue to accrete power.
This blurb also provides a tantalizing clue to the nature of the Azure Ring's psychology; it has offered us fealty by gifting us power enough to buy Crimson Flare and now it will defer to us as the preeminent Ring of Power. Fitting for an equivalent Royal purchase. The idea that Let it Rest could be perceived as weakness is something of a rebuttal to the rant about Aristotelian virtue; does this mean that Azure would consider Rest to be overtly Indulgent? The difference between compassion and weakness is a rich vein for fiction throughout history. It would be a shame to have to put down a rebellion by Azure because it mistook our offer of recovery for inability to rule.
There is something to be said for upholding the implicit social contract that Rings operate within. Instead of trying to outwit other Ringbearers in a game that has lasted aeons, we can just play the winning move. A contractually bound Azure Ring with one or more methods of hatefulness mitigation would be immensely powerful (and, most likely, compliant) in Gisena's hands.
Finally, I just want to note that even though there were intimations that Plerion's Vise was building towards exhausting the power of the Azure Ring, exposition from this blurb indicates that no lasting harm was done. I'm inclined to treat blurbs as out-of-universe exposition, but only if we choose them. Is it possible that not choosing this option would leave open the possibility that there was real lasting damage that Hunger didn't notice or comment on? (No, probably not. Rihaku is mostly a generous DM. But imo that would be a galaxy-brain way to hide a clue in a more adversarial Quest system!)
T E N
A R E T E
That is really something else. I'm kind of stunned at the payoff, to be honest. When combined with the gated Crimson Flare boosts we are about to see a major boost in both potency and potential. (
The benefits from a (free!) 7-Arete boost to Hunger are difficult to predict, but we could compare the effects of Rune King or Philosopher's Wreath against this new offer. Magic progression x4 with Edeldross (PW) would hasten the development of pseudo-graces & Findross for real Graces. Azure is a Ring, and our current magic system is from a ring; applying a modified To Shatter Heaven to our Rank 7+ blood buffs would be neat too. But what I predict for the Azure Ring is something considerably more subtle. The thing we lack is utility, and Azure will be able to bridge that gap while we develop our tertiary domains.
More excitement: Hastening Evening Sky by reducing its cost makes it easier for us to save enough. We've been distracted by min-maxing Sword and Ring; this might be the way to make the Mantle competitive again because the rewards promise to maximally enhance Hunger's abilities. If the price reduction for Evening Sky aligns with the free 7-price purchase then we might see some other interactions with other Evening Sky Purchases
EVEN MORE EXCITEMENT: This option foreshadows our purchase of Ruling Ring. We have been spooked by the idea that the Contest of Primacy will be dangerous and risk backfiring. But completely subjugating the Azure Ring will change us from a rabble rouser agitating in small rural villages into a fledgling Lord, eager to extend our dominion. The nature of the contest hasn't been defined but practice maintaining control over a second Ring is almost certainly going to prove helpful. If nothing else, Subordination could deter betrayal by the Azure Ring.
- Location
- Pindorama
Yeah, if we don't show kindness to a creature who suffered unimaginable amounts of pain and suffering for over ten-thousand years, when will we? You'd all go berserk if Letrizia suffered even 0.001% of what it has, and the Ring has helped far more when you consider Crimson Flare! Just leave your human-centric bias out and you will see that rest is the least of what it deserves.
- Location
- Earth
Verschlengorge grows
A big thank you once again to everybody who showed up to watch and blather with us at such a weird hour! We do genuinely appreciate knowing you guys enjoy our work, seeing Rihaku's characters come to life, and just chatting with us socially-starved neets!
Edit: now that I've caught up with the Discord chat as well, another big thank you to @Dark Abstraction for updating the chat with live screencaps while I was in-headset!
A big thank you once again to everybody who showed up to watch and blather with us at such a weird hour! We do genuinely appreciate knowing you guys enjoy our work, seeing Rihaku's characters come to life, and just chatting with us socially-starved neets!
Edit: now that I've caught up with the Discord chat as well, another big thank you to @Dark Abstraction for updating the chat with live screencaps while I was in-headset!
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Dark Abstraction
Infrequent Participant
- Location
- United States
Okay, this post got me. I've been convinced. Switching over.
[X] Peerless Grace
[X] The Blade
[X] Let It Rest
Talace
It must be raining somewhere else!
I agree with this! If we let the Ring rest, we might even get an additional waifu! Or perhaps, the ability to make our Ring powers feel like actual magic!
Duquette7
I am Fire, and I am Rain
it's not the Arete that matters to me, it's the options.
This is a unique advancement point, dealing with our triumph over a intense, over leveled quest line, and our interaction with a major force of highly potent conceptual magic.
I want those 7 point options, I want them badly, if we get stuck with 2 point options here I will be inconsolable.
This is a unique advancement point, dealing with our triumph over a intense, over leveled quest line, and our interaction with a major force of highly potent conceptual magic.
I want those 7 point options, I want them badly, if we get stuck with 2 point options here I will be inconsolable.
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I feel for the Ring, but I feel even more for Hunger. I've lost count how many times we've risked his life in the Temple, so I can't in good conscience just let him effectively go with a pat on his back.
Dark Abstraction
Infrequent Participant
- Location
- United States
Hunger and Gisena are both nobility, this was mentioned in-story. It was awhile ago though, so it's understandable to have forgotten.