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A Simple Transaction I

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[X] Larissa of House Alynne
[X] Fierce Quickening
[X] World-Defeating Stance


I'd probably prefer Exalted over Fierce if we end up scraping together enough Arete for it, but that might just be my evening sky bias talking.
 
Zampano said:
Larissa is a good pick because it lets us blood-buff the Tiller Wyrms.
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Where are you getting this Alynne-Tiller Wurms connection?
Zampano said:
World-defeating Stance is a good pick because it prevents being affected by Anti-Ring suppression in-use against the Azure Ring, and it affords a second layer of defense against accidentally killing everybody in a dimensional collapse.
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Rihaku said:
All the Stances are relevant here. Hero-Defeating is likely best overall unless you go for a pure stats pick like double Quickening, in which case Weapon-Defeating is likely best overall. However, it all depends on which enemies you want to have trouble with. Magic-Defeating smashes mages but is weak to high-Rank high-stats fighters, Weapon-Defeating the opposite, Hero-Defeating decent against all, World-Defeating like a worse Hero-Defeating here.
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No mention of Wo-DS being relevant against Anti-Ring stuff nor the Dimensional collapse, even though its an possible edge against H-DS and would prevent it from being a strictly worse pick. I think whatever it offers just isn't relevant enough and we are better off with We-DS.
 
Yeah, no Dune cosplay for us.

For the people picking Wo-DS: Rihaku already stated that We-DS can be even better than Hero-Defeating Stance if we go full stats, while Wo-DS is just a worse version of H-DS. Why pick it over the option recommended by WOG? Especially if we take Larissa and get information on the Ring's defenses revealed to us; that would already remove the impetus for Wo-DS when we can just have our allies smash the Anti-Ring stuff, particularly Gisena. Weapon-Defeating Stance is just better overall here.
 
[X] Vigor Incarnate

Man, good thing we didn't take common pick over a completely unique Feat. Imagine how embarrassing would be if you didn't get Feat and the exact next vote you got an additional pick you could use to get Vigor, hahaha!



heh

[X] Who Walked Away
[X] Fierce Quickening
[X] Fierce Quickening X2

Might as well unlock Fierce Quickening upgrade. I guess that we need to spend Arete too, even if we already spent ton of it(16..) on merely incremental upgrade so it kinda hurts.
 
BrainInAJar said:
No mention of Wo-DS being relevant against Anti-Ring stuff nor the Dimensional collapse
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There is this quote:
Rihaku said:
Thomasfoolery said:
The relocation aspects of our element could be useful for evacuation, it's not quite scaled enough yet though.
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The Rank, +Luck and +Int of World-Defeating Stance might actually be quite useful here...
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This went into my brain as "world-defeating resists the dimensional collapse"

welp.

I'm not convinced that absence of arguments from Rihaku as a devil's advocate really act as strong evidence of absence for the merits of World Defeating Stance. If Hunger had no way to foresee the danger of Ring Suppression also affecting him when he enters the containment cell, would Rihaku warn us out of character? Or would we be rewarded as players for noticing a potential complication?

I'm just going to put down a marker so I can be smug as hell if suppression turns out to be relevant.
 
BrainInAJar said:
I don't think we'd need Wo-DS with Alynne, given she would have information on the Ring's defenses and could warn us about specific anti-Ring measures, which we could then smash with Gisena. She is just such a convenient option! Leave the complicated stuff for her and let us do the smashing.
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I realized something. You may be conflating inner ring defenses from the Larissa Blurb(*Extremely in-depth information of existing Inner Ring defenses, including (outdated) tactical data on some of the Immortals themselves. ), with information on the ring's containment chamber. The inner ring refers to the entire area inside the dimensional rift.

If there's anti-ring energy sapping traps inside the containment chamber, Aristesia is perhaps more likely to know this in spite of not having outdated dossiers on the immortal council to give us.
 
[X] Who Walked Away
[X] Fierce Quickening
[X] Fierce Quickening X2
[X] Hero-Defeating Stance
 
Rihaku said:
*Larissa might get clingy before she is inevitably crushed by Gisena
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Tempted for the Larissa group so I can see this scene but ultimately not worth.

[X] Who Walked Away
[X] Forebear's Blade - Iron Maelstrom

1 pick and 1 arete for a combatant on our level and a ragtag group of heroes is a pretty good deal. + mental stability seals the deal for me.

Since we're taking a decent sized group of allies Iron Maelstrom is exceedingly good value with it's group buff.
 
Iron Maelstrom won't buff the group enough to matter and saving here is pointless, just go for stats. We want to increase our odds as much as possible.
Conjured Blade said:
I realized something. You may be conflating inner ring defenses from the Larissa Blurb(*Extremely in-depth information of existing Inner Ring defenses, including (outdated) tactical data on some of the Immortals themselves. ), with information on the ring's containment chamber. The inner ring refers to the entire area inside the dimensional rift.

If there's anti-ring energy sapping traps inside the containment chamber, Aristesia is perhaps more likely to know this in spite of not having outdated dossiers on the immortal council to give us.
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I don't think so; I think as a Council member she would in fact be privy to the Ring's defenses; it's likely on the annual budget! Remember she has two Soul Evokers for black-ops stuff; the gap between what she "should" know and what she actually knows can be quite large.
 
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Wolfy said:
Man, good thing we didn't take common pick over a completely unique Feat. Imagine how embarrassing would be if you didn't get Feat and the exact next vote you got an additional pick you could use to get Vigor, hahaha!
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Yep, that would have been really great and our build would have become more [REDACTED]

[X] Larissa of House Alynne
[X] Fierce Quickening
[X] Weapon-Defeating Stance
 
BrainInAJar said:
Iron Maelstrom won't buff the group enough to matter and saving here is pointless, just go for stats. We want to increase our odds as much as possible.

I don't think so; I think as a Council member she would in fact be privy to the Ring's defenses; it's likely on the annual budget! Remember she has tow Soul Evokers for black-ops stuff; the gap between what she "should" know and what she actually knows can be quite large.
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She is out of favor. If the council is anything like congress, odds are she is not on the intelligence oversight committee with the authority to see the black budget. As for having two Soul Evokers for black ops operations, odds are they don't outclass the immortals watching the chamber and she hasn't asked them to try to learn anything about it. They probably have diviners looking for people who try to investigate this kind of thing. Two people would not be enough to pull a heist on Fort Knox or a Nuclear Power Plant.

Let's compare with Aristesia. She's been captured and subject to unpleasant experiments. How was she captured? Has she perhaps seen the inside of the containment chamber? Learned how it works in detail before she was caught?
 
[X] Weapon-Defeating Stance
[X] Fierce Quickening
[X] Fierce Quickening X2

Can I just note that while Hero-Defeating Stance says that the Rank it grants is external World-Defeating Stance doesn't? Could that actually be 0.325 with Uttermost?

Not that it matters much because Rank gain compounds, and the difference between gaining a 7.325 Crimson Flare now instead of 7.65 if we'd voted for Shameless is significant. I feel it's better to take our focus elsewhere rather than trying to salvage a sinking ship...
 
Extending on my line of thought, the question here is...

[ ] Who Walked Away - Even in the sheltered Inner Ring, there are those who discovered the truth of the Ring's torment, especially among they who have had extensive contact with former Outriders. While most were capable of ignoring the moral implications of the Call, some principled individuals could not help but take a stand.
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How far did they get before being captured for Rihaku to say they have strategically valuable information?

Edit: maybe I should tag you since this is an extension on what I was saying earlier? @BrainInAJar
 
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[X] Larissa of House Alynne
[X] Weapon-Defeating Stance
[X] Fierce Quickening

S T A T S

I Was pretty excited about world-defeating but the benefits I predicted weren't included in Rihaku's analysis of each option. Either I guessed correctly & Rihaku is just leaving out information that isn't available in-character, or I extrapolated a bit too much. Assuming that the GM is sharing information in-good-faith is always a better approach to these quests.

Thus:
Larissa for intel, peer-level allies to blood-buff, and logistics for averting a genocide / catastrophe.
Quickening for STATS and dodge-tanking defense.
Weapon Defeating Stance for S T A T S and an absolutely unreal number of +STR applied to Ruin when we try to sunder weapons.
 
Don't give up! This battle for Rank was lost, but the war continues on! Chin up, soldier!
Conjured Blade said:
She is out of favor. If the council is anything like congress, odds are she is not on the intelligence oversight committee with the authority to see the black budget. As for having two Soul Evokers for black ops operations, odds are they don't outclass the immortals watching the chamber and she hasn't asked them to try to learn anything about it. They probably have diviners looking for people who try to investigate this kind of thing. Two people would not be enough to pull a heist on Fort Knox or a Nuclear Power Plant.

Let's compare with Aristesia. She's been captured and subject to unpleasant experiments. How was she captured? Has she perhaps seen the inside of the containment chamber? Learned how it works in detail before she was caught?
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I don't think the Ring's defenses change much year-to-year though, and she already has information on the Immortals who are part of the Ring's defenses anyway, so I think she would know about more static emplacements.

Meanwhile, your stuff about Fairbright is pure conjecture; maybe not without merit, but far from assured. Alynne is much more likely to have critical information here.
 
Another thing I might note even though it is a rather cold observation is that if we don't take Farbright she and her allies will still be chilling in their cells and not act as an obstacle to Hunger. By not taking Laryssa we might actually find Wyvernford and his forces against us (though I mean, he could be another exp-piñata to crack open before the Immortals).

DkArthas said:
Eh? Pretty sure Vigor incarnate is the reason why Larissa option was opened. It already made it worth it.
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You're right, for some reason I kept adding up the 6 and the 9 on the character sheet, so I thought we had 15 or something. :V
 
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