Given that they've never seen X-type before, and the only new person to enter the Temple recently being Gisena, they must be getting that result off Gisena. Or possibly something about the combo of Gisena and Hunger. And of course when we leave Gisena back at camp the X-type chance drops to 0.
I know what X-type are, but first some background.
Soul Evocation is powerful but extremely specialised form of magic. Vanreir was one thrust man, one trick pony. I think the other Soul Evocator have the same limitations - specialised one trick ponies, but like JoJo stands they can be versatile if applied correctly.

We killed the Librarian by a good synergy between Gisna and Hunger. Long-range support and melee fighter is a classic duo.

We know that the Temple inflicts the Doom of Anti-synergy on all who enter it, ergo all Soul Evocators have it.
X-type means synergetic build/threat. No wonder they thought it was purely hypothetical type.
 
Poor Business... without business acumen, how will Letrizia find employers for your mercenary scheme, huh?! Ask yourselves that! Plus, do you really want to abandon Aeira in the Voyaging Realm / provoke the Voyaging Realm while you have the Apocryphal Curse? Seems risky.
It actually depends a lot on our future plans. What do people want to do after the temple? Do you want to conquer the temple Civ? Just go to the Human sphere?
 
I think it's based less on magical system, and more on what type of danger they would be.

After some more thought I think this is right. From what I can tell, there are A LOT of different magics in the Voyaging Realm, certainly more than just 4. Plus the Temple, like everywhere else, keeps being moved around and exposed to new environments.

So, why is Gisena rated X?

I'd guess it's because she's the only one that can actually destroy the ring. In EFB, it's stated that destroying a ring would take an age, is a huge deal, ect... But the nullity mage is all about destroying magic. So rather than an epic quest to throw the ring in Mount Doom, she can just walk up and yeet it.
 
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After some more thought I think this is right. From what I can tell, there are A LOT of different magics in the Voyaging Realm, certainly more than just 4. Plus the Temple, like everywhere else, keeps being moved around and exposed to new environments.

So, why is Gisena rated X?

I'd guess it's because she's the only one that can actually destroy the ring. In EFB, it's stated that destroying a ring would take an age, is a huge deal, ect... But the nullity mage is all about destroying magic. So rather than an epic quest to throw the ring in Mount Doom, she can just walk up and yeet it.
Sufficient nullity might be able to end their civilization, since they rely on the power of the ring for everything. If Gisena became strong enough, she would be able to just sap all of their power...

Kind of terryfying.
 
Aeira does have the ability to navigate back to the Sovereignty with the help of that one friend's Element and added combat prowess would make the journey safer for her. We're not abandoning her, she's free to pursue new contracts or take on the Rotbeast herself. If Hunger's growth rate rubs off on her, she can redeem her family's honor right quick. That the Realm can be provoked by extracting a single mage but Letrizia doesn't cause problems is interesting, though. I imagine they've tried importing outsiders, then imbuing and extracting them. At what stage does danger enter the process? Is premeditation alone risky?

Also, wow, I should be sleeping rather than phoneposting.
 
i imagine is a reference to SCP, people with potential to end the civilization.
Existential risks, that is, risks that could end everything, predate SCP substantially:

Article:
Problems with Defining an Existential Risk
. What is an existential risk?
The general concept has been around for decades, but the term was coined by Nick Bostrom in his seminal 2002 paper, here.


Article:
The SCP Foundation logo
Available inEnglish[note 1]
URLwww.scp-wiki.net
Alexa rank13,696 (May 2020)[2]
RegistrationRequired[note 2]
Launched
  • January 19, 2008; 12 years ago (original)
  • July 19, 2008 (current site)[3]
 
[X] Guile-Defeating Stance

Strange how some people feel these guys are so bad. They're doing pretty well with what they have in my opinion. A thousand years of life for most people isn't bad. And the immortals are needed as a trump card to defend the ring. We are proof of that.

Life is indeed pretty good for the ten million-person populace of the Inner Ring! They have supernatural lifespans, access to great food, water, healthcare, shelter and entertainment... compared to some Voyaging Realm (or even Human Sphere) civilizations, it's downright idyllic! There are restrictions and petty power-plays, especially at the top, but they manage their limited resources reasonably well.

However, all of that is built on the suffering of the Ring...

We need to be the heroes of our own story, so naturally the Temple must be evil.

Also, as a side effect of the Temple's power extraction people are lured here, driven mad, and then murdered.

And, even more offensive to Hunger, they're tormenting that poor Ring! That's just fundamentally wrong, they must be stopped!

It actually depends a lot on our future plans. What do people want to do after the temple? Do you want to conquer the temple Civ? Just go to the Human sphere?

My impression is that most people want to continue exploring the Voyaging Realm, but there's a strong faction that wants to reach the Human Sphere and learn what's going on!
 
If we're talking about things we want to do after the Temple?

Fishing Update, please. Hunger deserves a reward for surviving the Doom of Anti Synergy that the voterbase procced.

I'm not entirely sold on using the Temple as our main base of operations, even if I think it used to be cool. Probably because the more we learned about the temple, the more I kinda got tired of it. Sure, it might have some built infrastructure that would make it useful as a base but like--all focused on ring sacrifice. And given our hopeful future ability to elevate base humans to the next level, practically any rando settlement would work.

And that's if we decide to stay in the Voyaging Realm. Which I am in favor of, at least for the time being. Not for too long though--i'm still interested in making sure that Letrizia's nobility isn't completely scrapped. Then again, one can always regain their nobility with the strength of their arm. Having Letrizia level up a bit more, and with Hunger technically still in her employ, well. Become a Bright Shining Beacon of Hope for House von Artiez.

We'll also probably have ADS by then? Or Guile Defeating at the very least which would make any form of plotting easier to act against.

So yeah.

Basics of the plan is finish Temple -> Fishing Update -> Find a couple of shmuck settlements with aspiring adventurers-> raise them to become our own little army and have them collect shit for us while we raise Verse into fighting form for Astral Baiting -> level up a bunch -> reintroduce Letrizia to her Homefront and have her sweep away the malignant factors trying to destroy her House.

It gets us a temporary base in the Voyaging Realm, and a more concrete one in the Human Sphere for our eventual Conquest in a Galaxy Far, Far Away.
 
Basics of the plan is finish Temple -> Fishing Update -> Find a couple of shmuck settlements with aspiring adventurers-> raise them to become our own little army and have them collect shit for us while we raise Verse into fighting form for Astral Baiting -> level up a bunch -> reintroduce Letrizia to her Homefront and have her sweep away the malignant factors trying to destroy her House.

It gets us a temporary base in the Voyaging Realm, and a more concrete one in the Human Sphere for our eventual Conquest in a Galaxy Far, Far Away.

I think the concern with taking adventurers from the Voyaging Realm is that there are repercussions to giving them magic/getting ones with native magics, because we get punished for bringing them out of the Voyaging Realm. This means that we have to either invest time or resources into investigating this, might be smarter to recruit from the Human Sphere.
 
And, even more offensive to Hunger, they're tormenting that poor Ring! That's just fundamentally wrong, they must be stopped!

Well he's a ring now, not a human, so that makes sense.

If he's going to be in a relationship with Gisena he'll need to give her a ring as well. Think about it; a Ring, in a relationship with some plains-ape? Inter-species "relationships" are bestiality, and it's just not right. Doesn't matter how much magic you stuff in a plains-ape, they're still just an overgrown ape.

And of course, once Gisena puts on the ring he'll have rescued her twice, once when he took her remittance and saved her human body, and as second time when he rescued her from the Lunar Temple.

...

On a related note, there's been talk about rescuing the ring and then ruling the Temple. But I think if we put the ring on someone, that person will immediately advocate destroying the Temple and razing it to the ground.
 
Oh, these are the good parts of the Voyaging Realm! Some would say the very good parts...

Depending on what was implied here there could be value enough to extract still that raising up an army here to explore further reaches could be worth the effort even if we never take them outside. That doesn't really square with Rihaku saying it would probably be impractical to scale to Armament level inside though.
 
Depending on what was implied here there could be value enough to extract still that raising up an army here to explore further reaches could be worth the effort even if we never take them outside. That doesn't really square with Rihaku saying it would probably be impractical to scale to Armament level inside though.
I think there's still a vast and terrible gap between us and anything at Rank 10
 
Inserted tally
Adhoc vote count started by George on Jul 2, 2020 at 2:45 AM, finished with 141 posts and 34 votes.
 
While Inner Ring residents benefit from regular exposure to the Treasure's directly refracted glow, Middle Temple outriders must make do with the second-hand light that emerges from their Sigils. The worthy are elevated to join us, but do not concern yourself with pity for the other residents of the Middle Temple. Existence itself is a boon to them who live beyond the prescribed ten million. They are defended in large part by our largesse, with a not-insignificant fraction of our star-stuff re-directed to power the Ritual Grounds.
Huh, so they can't actually use their Soul Evocations outside the Inner Ring without a Sigil? Should we fight Avercarn, can we deliberately target his ring? Hunger should know this information. Or is Avercarn too powerful?
 
Maybe the Ritual Grounds are used to set up the Knights as a defense system for the Outer Temple? That would be interesting.
 
Wait, she stole this from the adventurer encampment? Not from the Middle or Inner Ring? Why the hell do the merchants and info-brokers have something that looks like it comes from the Temple's intelligence reports? For that matter, reports that are only days old even, as they reference Hunger's part. How do they get this stuff? Who is good enough to sneak into the inner areas and steal it? Or, who has contacts to the Temple people? Or...?

... And what's up with Hunger's anti-scrying stuff. Where is that coming from? Gisena's Nullity? Attunement to Verschlengorge? Bearing a ring of power? (But if so, wouldn't Hunger notice?) The Azure Moon interfering with their scrying efforts? Cursebearers having a "Do Not Fucking Scry On" innate property??
No False Moon is this, but the anchor of the world itself! Come now into mine grasp, that my descedents may flourish evermore.
descendants
To which the Council notes that the number of stars in the night sky is very nearly innumerable, and the current rate of extraction will see our civilization through for many millennia to follow, far beyond the circumscribed lifetime of any Inner Resident save the Immortals themselves.
but rest assured that its longevity as a power source is effectively infinite! That is why the treasure must be impenetrably defended, not only by the citizenry of the Temple, but by the Immortals of the Council themselves, whose imperishable might is the sole and necessary justification for their continuance beyond the prescribed lifespan of one thousand years.

That is why the treasure must be impenetrably defended, not only by the citizenry of the Temple, but by the Immortals of the Council themselves, whose imperishable might is the sole and necessary justification for their continuance beyond the prescribed lifespan of one thousand years.

Do not envy them their eternal vigilance, and mourn not your finite hours, for it is by their tireless regard that the Treasure which shelters us all is kept secure for the generations to come. Theirs is not a privilege but a duty, no reward but an onerous and ceaseless burden, which is why any Councilor elevated to the Rank of Immortal is stripped of all commissions and departmental roles, and their voting power further cut by half.
... If the well of energy they can extract is supposed to be endless or so large as to be indistinguishable, then why exactly do they bother with the "Immortality is only for people who're Strategic Assets!" and "You're prescribed 1000 years" things?

... You know, the reflexive reaction to this is "Wait wtf, they're keeping immortality limited to a rare few?" but I wonder if there is some truth to it being a duty or burden. Namely, I wonder if too much power is... let's say transformative. Maybe the Immortals can't live a normal existence very easily or anymore. Maybe they have to spend their life in isolation, or in very careful regimented environment, in order to maintain stability.

Or maybe, stuffing so much power into a person -- or drawing out so much power from the Moon in order to use for anything -- risks drawing in powerful Astral Beasts. Meaning, that it's actually dangerous to concentrate too much power or energy from the Ring... because it risks backlash. I mean, we were, after all, told that "The Voyaging Realm resists attempts to exploit it... especially industrialized exploitation." So maybe they're worried that if they made tons of super-powerful Immortals, the Astral Lord known as Murphy will show up and wreck their shit.

After all, the Temple residents are already seeing some pushback from the Voyaging Realm -- tons of adventurers are coming for them.

This does make me wonder, though... If we freed the Ring... and tried to take it or use it, giving it to a party member... Would we have, uh, calamitous difficulties in bringing it out of the Voyaging Realm? As any attempt to mine power from the Voyaging Realm?
Given these and many lesser disruptions in Ritual activity, containment efficacy has fallen calamitously, down 8% in the last 72 hours. Recommend re-commissioning of Star Forge #27 to begin extraction of sub-quadrant F5 to compensate.
What exactly are they sealing away? And, why do they need to re-commission a Star Forge to make up for the loss of power? Again, if this place can draw all the power it wants, then why is there a problem here?
We have informed the Chief Coordinator that incursion activity may spike as uncontained Power is released into the greater Outside. In light of this limited containment breach, termination or subversion of all major Incursions is the utmost priority.
? They need to draw more Star Power in order to contain the thingy. But, the thing that is leaking out... is Power?

Hmm, so... So, are they preventing either the Mooncall or the Light-of-the-Soul from escaping and emanating away? Is that what they're worried about here? Either the Moon being able to call out more strongly, and thus either more and more powerful Adventurers or even Astral Beasts will show up and that is bad times... Or the Light of the Soul will leak out, and so the Adventurers might power up from that (and thus become a bigger threat).

Why do the information peddlers even have this
?

How do the info-brokers even have this
?? How'd they get this?

Were they given this, or did some Adventurer long ago manage to sneak into the Inner Ring and steal stuff and return with it, and then the spoils were kept by the adventurer or party and gets passed down over time and kept secret?

But no, it can't be that, or at least not just that -- because the stolen papers involve a report about stuff that happened just days ago, which means that somebody here is able to reach into the Inner Ring and steal papers? Or that they're being given this?
Fewer, more heretical minds have proposed a different question - what if the Forges were turned to the harvest of the moon itself? The Council, as befits its dignity, has not seen fit to answer so ludicrous a query. Star-stuff suffices to power all but the most esoteric applications of Inner Ring society, from power and lighting to the time-twisting Calendar Engine and even the carefully regimented Dimensional Vortex upon which the Inner Ring sits.

Marshall, imbibe dutifully the information contained above, and take heed as to the tenor of questions that the Council will and will not countenance. Such is crucial to your harmonious existence within our Inner Ring.
Stuff like this immediately and transparently seems ominous -- "Don't ask questions! Do not question!" -- and a sign of a messed up society. And while I think that's of course still the case, I'm also wondering whether there's also other problems with too much curiosity or the wrong kind of curiosity too. Namely... I dunno. The idea hasn't quite percolated in my mind. Just... Wondering if there's a "On the first layer, this appears like a society's jerkish actions" "But I wonder if behind this, this first layer which will make everybody who sees it go 'Ah, so that's what this is' there is also a more disquieting truth, too."

Because, after all, if the answer was the obvious: "No, we are not going to harvest from the Moon itself, because that is the Golden Goose, no duh." why wouldn't they have just said precisely that. Unless they're worried about any talk of their source of power, or any talk that would be about... hrm. Or maybe the simpler reason is because trying to grab and pull the moon would, uh, well... unmoor the moon. Or in other words, tear it free from the trap. Which, y'know, is also a thing that the Moon is trying to accomplish by Calling out to people. So hence, the high-ranking people worry about any possibility or sign of talk that might touch upon that; because, what if that's the Moon itself trying to pull a fast one?

... Mmm... I'm probably overthinking and over-analyzing this part. Probably it's just a simpler answer and there's no conspiracy behind this particular thing that grabbed my eye. There doesn't have to be super-significant stuff behind everything and every part. Probably it's just as it looks, a secretive or censorious or oppressive government, and for the usual and normal reasons for governments being such rather than for any eldritch reason.

Though, thinking about it... It makes me wonder. Do they, does their nation... have a Panopticon too?

It would fit the pattern of conformity and such. And a Surprise Panopticon would make it harder to sneak about if you were infiltrating or even just were let in and then wanted to do something surreptitious while inside.

Anyway. Something to think about, I guess. If they're an advanced society, they might have advanced surveillance too. ... Of course, they also had trouble scrying Hunger, so... ... But then maybe that was just magic failing, and more mechanical and mundane means might not fail?

...

I wonder how their magical scrying got "DENIED!" by Hunger though. And why. Like, if the answer is just "Because he's a Cursebearer, and scrying on somebody touched by the Accursed is innately a baaad idea" that seems a bit... I mean. It doesn't quite seem right. Cursebearers don't have innate defenses against scrying. I mean, they might have innate defenses against Going Mad From The Revelation, and innate defenses against "Oops, your magic doesn't work in this reality!" but scrying defenses? So... did our Ring do this? (But if so, why didn't we notice it?) Or perhaps the Azure Ring? ... Or maybe it's our Evening Sky? Maybe it's linked to the Azure Ring or something or I dunno.
... Or maybe it's just Nullity. Maybe their heads went pop from scrying Hunger because Hunger hangs around Gisena all the time. ... Or because Hunger is now attuned to an Armament...
[ ] Business - The support. Instead of focusing solely on her skills as a mercenary alone, Aeira studied the dismal science in an attempt to better understand and possibly extricate her family from its dismal situation. While this isn't immediately relevant, it would substantially improve her value to Letrizia as a magus-advisor in the Human Sphere, providing a form of long term income that isn't as vulnerable to abrupt termination as her current line of work. Grants +++Wisdom, ++Intelligence, ++Charisma.

Bonus: Apocalypse Later - Vastly reduces the risks of taking Aeira out of the Voyaging Realm. Without this, complications will almost certainly ensue.
... Why's this even a thing... This is weird. Why would there be problems extracting Aeira? And and why does "study economics/business" address the Voyaging Realm Anti-Looting Mechanism???
 
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