++Charisma aren't really important
Even now, it is important while dealing with Sovereignty, and could net us followers should we finally elect to actually visit that goddamn camp near the temple for some goddamn party members.

Nevermind long term potential, and our actual goal in this universe; that is obvious, no need explaining.
 
Evening Sky is great for Magic access (let's be honest the ++Protection and ++Charisma aren't really important), Sword for SORDING, and our Ring is high tier conceptual effects around it's (broad) domains. We should develop them accordingly.

Basically don't go Pearlescence.
But we can do that even without picking Inksky, that's my point. I just consider Edeldross a more mechanically and thematically (maybe not aestethically, if you really like evening sky's look) fitting choice at the moment.
 
@Rihaku how strong are the Armor Prototypes available to the Elixir Sovereignty? How probable is for us to negotiate some assistance from them in penetrating the temple should we save their nation and kill the rotbeast?
 
How much of a vote lead would we need, Rihaku, to overcome Inksky's omake power?

It depends in part on how Microwave wants her omake power distributed, since she said she doesn't care which of the two wins, and I'd have to review the arguments as well. Assuming no special accommodations are made, and arguments are relatively even, you'd probably need at least an 8-10 vote lead before it starts getting close enough to warrant a deep manual review, though it depends on the number of voters as well.
 
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It's more that we are being given a chance to pick a charisma option that synergizes specifically with the charisma options we KNOW we have, as opposed to future speculative ones.
Does it really synergize that much though? To me it looks like we're playing a tug-of-war of buffs and debuffs and ending up with something that is somewhat acceptable but not really that great. Now, something that added our Willpower (or some other stat) to Charisma would be exactly what we're looking for, but that's just me hopelessly dreaming, at least for the moment...
 
Damn. I didn't really realize that Inksky's +100% to the Protection and Charisma only applies to stats granted by Evening Sky. I must be blind.

That means our most efficient and arete less way of gaining +Charisma, Vigor itself and perhaps further blood advancements in that path still suffer from the 40% reduction from uttermost.
 
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Mhm. Edeldross gives 20% bonus to all Attributes, that can be further increased. By itself it almost negates the effect of Uttermost that reduced Luck, Protection, Wisdom and Charisma value by 30%. It once again makes Wis, luck, Prot, and cha choices competition.

But is this canceling the attribute nerf or is it buffing them from the new baseline of 70%? Furthermore that buff only comes from pure Edeldross and sounds to be rather temporary, not even mentioning that it can effect our enemies too. All this seems like time sunk in for gains that are not necessarily worth while though perhaps the chance to increase the percentage of gain makes it worth it. However, it is still not a fix to our stats, it is like putting on a bandage, useful but ultimately temporary. It does not solve the problem merely shift it out of sight.
 
To tie into what I said to Prospalz above, part of the problem is that ultimately no amount of sword and sorcery can, alone, solve the problem of "you need to conquer a bunch of planets," except by "make a desert and call it peace," which I'm worried may not technically fulfill the requirements, and which would certainly be bad for Hunger's sanity, party relationships, and player satisfaction.

We need supernatural majesty and charisma to pull this off, not just a combat style... and we need something very enhanced in that regard, to cut through (heh) the maluses and obstacles imposed by the unmitigated Doom of the Tyrant and now by our trait of Uttermost. And the only really large source of supernatural charisma we know we have is the Evening Sky; the Ring and Blade are mostly specialized in other areas.

This is probably the best Evening Sky upgrade we're going to see for a long time; I'm pretty sure it's the best upgrade for it that we've seen yet. If not now, when?
We have literally thousands of years to get around to the ruling part. Right now, how exactly we're going to conquer and rule is really not a concern. Power begets more power. Once we have outscaled the curse completely and are no longer in danger of suddenly getting ganked/killed, we can easily invest a century or so in a comprehensive rulership scheme, of which supernatural charisma is only one option. We don't need supernatural majesty. It is one way to deal with that issue, but I can think of many others. And if we do want to already bother with ways to ensure rulership, being able to nonlethally teleport enemies and dissidents far away could do a lot for Hunger's mental wellbeing.
 
Mhm. Edeldross gives 20% bonus to all Attributes, that can be further increased. By itself it almost negates the effect of Uttermost that reduced Luck, Protection, Wisdom and Charisma value by 30%. It once again makes Wis, luck, Prot, and cha choices competition.

Indeed. +All Stats means your Charisma from all sources is affected, including Vigor Itself! It also boosts your base Luck, Wisdom etc!

@Rihaku how strong are the Armor Prototypes available to the Elixir Sovereignty? How probable is for us to negotiate some assistance from them in penetrating the temple should we save their nation and kill the rotbeast?

The strongest are Rank 5, but their stats are noticeably inferior to yours such that even a squad of them would lose to Hunger. There's a reason they've never successfully fought the Rotbeast directly!

Does it really synergize that much though? To me it looks like we're playing a tug-of-war of buffs and debuffs and ending up with something that is somewhat acceptable but not really that great. Now, something that added our Willpower (or some other stat) to Charisma would be exactly what we're looking for, but that's just me hopelessly dreaming, at least for the moment...

Both Quickwater and Edeldross offer a decent amount of initial synergy, Quickwater gives +15 AGI and Edeldross gives +7.5 AGI and Might due to the Willpower buff. Inksky can offer considerable stat synergies if you guys pick up Pearlescence as well, but I don't know how likely that is.
 
It depends in part on how Microwave wants her omake power distributed, since she said she doesn't care which of the two wins, and I'd have to review the arguments as well. Assuming no special accommodations are made, and arguments are relatively even, you'd probably need at least an 8-10 vote lead before it starts getting close enough to warrant a deep manual review, though it depends on the number of voters as well.
Oof, after waking up and reading the arguments and especially your warnings about picking Inksky - hm, how much of a shot would Edeldross have if I requested my omake power be split 50/50 between Edeldross and Inksky?
 
[X] 7 Arete Version
[X] Edeldross

I think Edeldross is conceptually interesting, and I want to see what future synergy options it unlocks. What happens if we weave it into the cloak, for example?
 
Current vote count?

Would that change if we empowered them with the ring of blood?

You'd buff the pilots, but the parameters of the suits themselves wouldn't change, so it would not bring them up to your tier. Recruiting top-tier High Elementalists would be a better solution, but that runs into its own problems... practically speaking though, Hunger's party will shortly have Sublime Gisena who possesses GIGA Appearance.

Oof, after waking up and reading the arguments and especially your warnings about picking Inksky - hm, how much of a shot would Edeldross have if I requested my omake power be split 50/50 between Edeldross and Inksky?

It'd be much closer, though Inksky would still have a substantial omake lead.
 
[X] The Kaguya
[X] InkSky
[X] 7 Arete Version

I'm a huge fan of findross and it's more intelligible little sister edeldross. Alas, inksky appeals to me as the more hunger synergistic and independent of its discount to Pillars of the Sky. I think increased charisma and self sufficiency drawn from value of his panoply is more appealing to his character.

I think with the vengeance we chose, the balm of a relationship power draws him farther away from the core of who he is. And he'll come into conflict with the thematic self that allows him to use the Forebear's blade to itscurrent murderous potential.

Kugyua and it's decadence is a no brainer- he is Hunger. He wears the ring.

7 Arete for a companion bonus allows me to feel less guilty over inksky. We're not doing nothing for nobody, no sir.

furthermore, we know that the meta-singularity of the maiden and the hero was around the level of a combat cursebearer. Hunger's growth feels far quicker than Seram's. I don't think, excepting for Gisena, it's too important. We're too far from the territory taking to worry about superlative land infusion, and I don't suspect that inksky will be more difficult to take out of theVoyaging realm Not when it's part of our accretion.
 
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I suppose I must honor my agreement.
[X] The Streamline
[X] 7 Arete Version
[X] Edeldross


Calls for the irrelevancy of the Evening Sky are highly alarmist at this point. Yes, as an artifact its Protection side has deprecated a bit until we get Pearlescence, but saying it reduces itself to that is extremely erroneous given the multitude of advancements like Fall of Night, Amaranth and Pristine Star and Philosopher's Wreath. Not to mention Edeldross stat bonuses will likely wipe out the penalties we have thanks to Uttermost; making the Protection choices more viable again. I think if you want to make the Evening Sky more prominent, coordinating votes and Omake power to push for Pearlescense would likely do more than just picking Inksky here. Especially given the incredible stat buffs provided by it.

Not to mention Edeldross is much more versatile than the Evening Sky can ever hope to be and can make our Tyrant procs far less damaging, which is quite important since we can't mitigate it anymore. I don't really want to read Hunger making a bloodbath just because someone talked to him funny; and this helps significantly.

Also that +Catherine(?) mystery box is quite enticing, not gonna lie. I wonder if a revival Grace is among those that can be replicated? Of course, reviving what is implied to be a Rank 7+ character is really imbalanced.
 
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Inserted tally
Adhoc vote count started by Pechum on Jun 24, 2020 at 1:44 PM, finished with 383 posts and 66 votes.
 
Does it really synergize that much though? To me it looks like we're playing a tug-of-war of buffs and debuffs and ending up with something that is somewhat acceptable but not really that great. Now, something that added our Willpower (or some other stat) to Charisma would be exactly what we're looking for, but that's just me hopelessly dreaming, at least for the moment...
Inksky means that in future we have a set of Charisma buff options that will still be paying off better than normal (either 40% or 70% better than baseline), to offset the fact that a lot of our existing Charisma buffs and buff options just got nerfed.

Damn. I didn't really realize that Inksky's +100% to the Protection and Charisma only applies to stats granted by Evening Sky. I must be blind.

That means our most efficient and arete less way of gaining +Charisma, Vigor itself and perhaps further blood advancements in that path still suffer from the 40% reduction from uttermost.
OK, but that already happened- it's a ship that has sailed. Those blood-based options for charisma enhancement no longer work as well as they used to, ever since we took Uttermost. Now we need a different way to achieve the same thing.

And if we do want to already bother with ways to ensure rulership, being able to nonlethally teleport enemies and dissidents far away could do a lot for Hunger's mental wellbeing.
I will admit that being able to say "fine, go be protestors on literally the other side of the planet," *BAMF,* would be kind of darkly amusing.

It's little things like this and the +Catherine that make me more interested than the "we need raw power!" arguments.
 
So, after catching up on the thread discussion, I'm still favoring Edeldross - however, there is something I've noticed about Inksky. People have been arguing that we should get it because it improves the value of future magic advancements.

As a card-carrying member of Mage Gang, I'm curious - how many people would be interested in getting future magic advancements if we picked up Inksky? If there's a large number, then the power of Mage Gang might compel me to move in that direction...

Still, it's hard to beat Edeldross for its higher immediate relevancy and access to Graces of all sorts. They're both so very Aesthetic though...
 
But is this canceling the attribute nerf or is it buffing them from the new baseline of 70%? Furthermore that buff only comes from pure Edeldross and sounds to be rather temporary, not even mentioning that it can effect our enemies too.
Considering Gisena has Findross running through her bloodstream, we'll work out something like that too one day (and again, I disagree that we're in a hurry to get carisma bonuses). Maybe it wouldn't even matter, since if matter can control when generating Edeldross inside the body during the stress of a combat situation, it should be absolutely rivial to gain the buff in a normal situation. And I think we risk buffing our enemies only when outputting it in a way our allies can benefit from it, and that's an option both of the other Elements lack.

Both Quickwater and Edeldross offer a decent amount of initial synergy, Quickwater gives +15 AGI and Edeldross gives +7.5 AGI and Might due to the Willpower buff. Inksky can offer considerable stat synergies if you guys pick up Pearlescence as well, but I don't know how likely that is.
If I'm getting this right, that means that an overall buff to all our stats means that our "one attribute boosts another" stats benefit from it even more. And considering we could likely increase that overall boost, and that when we get the chance we're likely going to get Stranglethorn with its sweet doubling of Might and Willpower... Ooooooh boy

Going back to the real reason I'm voting for Edeldross though, I really want to see how getting such an ability will influence Hunger. it would be a choice (conscious or not) on his part to link his supernal growth to the people who are and were (and hopefully, will be again) part of his life. Just the fluff on that would be worth it even if there were no mechanical benefits whatsoever, at least in my opinion, so please, consider that as well when voting for the options rather than thinking only of the mechanical benefits (even though if you're voting for Inksky cause you like the aesthetics or concept of it then maximum respect to you as well, I may even agree with you on some points).
 
So, after catching up on the thread discussion, I'm still favoring Edeldross - however, there is something I've noticed about Inksky. People have been arguing that we should get it because it improves the value of future magic advancements.

As a card-carrying member of Mage Gang, I'm curious - how many people would be interested in getting future magic advancements if we picked up Inksky? If there's a large number, then the power of Mage Gang might compel me to move in that direction...

Still, it's hard to beat Edeldross for its higher immediate relevancy and access to Graces of all sorts. They're both so very Aesthetic though...

I would have been very happy to vote for Philosopher's Wreath eventually regardless, but having it be significantly buffed would absolutely move it up my priority list - it would probably become one of our best "short term power" options, in that case.
 
And its not like not taking Edeldross would lock us out of handling graces and Findross later on.

The Evening Sky with Ink Sky provides efficient advancement that involved Magic after all and Graces are Findross based magic. We already had the option of Evening Gown that would have made Hunger a pseudo-sorcerer.

Pluse Praxis is also magic! Inksky can reach advancements that would also boost our ability at the Sword Praxis!

Inksky to make magic relevant again!
 
Ugh, this was a pain to make. Love me some 1-bit art, but not so much a fan of the dithering necessary to pull off a gradient.

 
Inksky means that in future we have a set of Charisma buff options that will still be paying off better than normal (either 40% or 70% better than baseline), to offset the fact that a lot of our existing Charisma buffs and buff options just got nerfed.
And I think that in the future we might find some other way to compensate or nullify the debuff, without having to renounce something that at least to me is extremely appealing. It's a bet that I'm fully aware not everyone will agree with, but I trust this will not be the last time (or even the best one) for us to find a way to improve our social aspects (and again another bet, Edeldross could end up helping with that as well).
 
Considering Gisena has Findross running through her bloodstream, we'll work out something like that too one day (and again, I disagree that we're in a hurry to get carisma bonuses). Maybe it wouldn't even matter, since if matter can control when generating Edeldross inside the body during the stress of a combat situation, it should be absolutely rivial to gain the buff in a normal situation. And I think we risk buffing our enemies only when outputting it in a way our allies can benefit from it, and that's an option both of the other Elements lack.

So, saying because findross it'll work itself out does not reassure me. Uttermost was a pick that defined the sort of legend we are, I am pretty sure that while findross can provide stats and perfect things our image of ourself as mediated by uttermost will still apply those stat maluses which will add up. Perhaps I am misunderstanding how findross works, or perhaps it's perfection aspects will overcome accretions maluses but that honestly seems way to good to be true and there is no real evidence of how the systems interact so I am reluctant to just assume it will be all fine and dandy.

Second the buff comes from pure Edeldross so there is some effort required to generate that I assume and the blurb does not say that we just persistently get the bonus, it says that we can release it for the bonus. Now it is probably fair to assume that we can consume it internally for the bonus without risk of buffing our enemies, but it is still ultimately a temporary buff, a problem for me which you have not addressed.

I might change my vote later because of the Catherine mystery box and because findross is interesting to me, but I would feel much more comfortable if I could be sure that other people were willing to put effort into fixing those maluses which Inksky aside will probably take definings with their own problems that we have yet to see.
 
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