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A Simple Transaction I

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The wonderful thing about the Ruling Ring is also that we know for a fact that we can buy the lesser Ring options with Arete and then later trade them in for the full-on EFB version, and it only costs a 2 Arete surcharge; being able to buy our way into an EFB piecemeal is not to be underestimated.

So that's definitely something people should be bearing in mind as we go forward from here; Ring options are competitive not only for their intinsic value, but also as down-payments towards Ruling Ring.
 
runeblue360 said:
That's why we should go for Ruling Ring! The road there is quite viable given the +0.5 Rank while it in itself a lot of immediate power between massively strengthening Ring of Power and providing ++All Stats. Moreover, if we still need to spend Arete when we've got an absolutely stupid x270 total multiplier to our Progression, then we don't just deserve to get Once and Future.
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I do like this. We can easily get two dominions and preeminence with our current Arete totals, putting us over a third of the way to the EFB. I want us to get a dedicated mage option though - Chief Dominion kinda counts, as it's been described as Tolkien Wizard before, but I'd prefer if we had something like Philosopher's Wreath or Gardener's Hallow. Then again, if GH occurs again and we already have ring stuff in place, people might be more likely to actually vote for it...
 
runeblue360 said:
That's why we should go for Ruling Ring! The road there is quite viable given the +0.5 Rank while it in itself a lot of immediate power between massively strengthening Ring of Power and providing ++All Stats. Moreover, if we still need to spend Arete when we've got an absolutely stupid x270 total multiplier to our Progression, then we don't just deserve to get Once and Future.
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You know, was it ever explained what exactly these parts of Chief Dominion's description were about?
Rihaku said:
Awaken now, O Hunger ring; from blackest myth abjure:
thy band once stained, now un-profaned, to shine forevermore.

O Ring of Blood, O Ring of War, thy tide of battle fades;
cast down Their thrones in crimson gloam: unfurling of thine Age!
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Rihaku said:
He who attains pre-eminence over the lesser domains of Hunger, and awakens its Chief Dominion, shall wield the Ruling Ring and incite the contest of primacy thereby.
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Whom are we going to contest? We get all these warnings about other Rings (which given EFB lore makes sense to some extent), and the Ring starts looking more and more like the Ring of an Age, but how is this going to work when we're in a completely different world from where it originated?
 
DkArthas said:
I can get behind going all in into Ring. Odin is cool but Sauron is the coolest! It worked out well for Nameless!
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If you like it, you should vote Apex! It's now completely viable and actually has the spare Arete to get Preeminence and Dominion. The only serious competition is the Sword right now and you switching your approval vote could make quite a difference. If you want to do cool shit with magic, be more effective in Searching for Humans and up the godstat, it's the best option by far.

Moreover, the Ruling Ring is way better than the One. We've really been sleeping on how good it would be to increase the potency of Ring of Power. Just look at what strengthening it does for the purposes of manipulating blood!

Rihaku said:
Hm, it's not hemokinesis really. Think of it like Vilya, if Vilya's domain was blood, and its power more focused. You don't bleed out. Your enemies bleed profusely. Your blood sings with vigor and strength; theirs quails before you, weakening their resolve and possibly their vitality. Sufficiently vulnerable enemies might be struck dead with a gesture, their hearts giving out before your will. On larger timescales and greater scope is where it really shines. You could basically elevate a species of ordinary mortals into the Dunedain, or suppress and weaken the lands of your enemies, unleashing plagues of the blood against which they have little defense. With sufficient mastery you could boil the blood of their armies in their veins. Most importantly, all these effects have high conceptual weight, so they're harder to stop than more overt magics cast by someone of your Rank.

In terms of relevance to dungeoneering, it would give you a major edge against any living enemy with blood, and would improve your resilience and healing capabilities enormously, though combat-speed healing would only be moderate without a feat of exertion.
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Now imagine that but across all domains. That's what might potentially be on offer here. It's so incredibly powerful and we could begin saving up for it now, in a way that also gives us lots of immediate power to survive this place.

And really, why even have a Ring of Power if it's not that powerful? If you decide to get one, it should be the One Ring to Rule All Things.
 
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Frankly either Mage build is plausibly effective. More intelligence/wisdom is better ability to process whatever data we get out of the people we talk to for drawing conclusions. (Edit: And in the long term, when we have territory, it'll make us better at running it.)

@Orm Embar is my Gisena Ordinalism build speculation(A Simple Transaction I Original) something too played out for it to count as a fanwork now or something?
 
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Conjured Blade said:
@Orm Embar is my Gisena Ordinalism build speculation(A Simple Transaction I Original) something too played out for it to count as a fanwork now or something?
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Nope, thanks for pointing it out, I missed some of the posts on that page on account of writing up one of my own. Added to the index. Ordinalism's a fun system to play around with; I wonder if TSH's ability to 'break conceptual limits' applies to the mutual exclusivity inherent in the Spiral? If the Strategist's Conjoiner could do it, surely a boon from the Accursed can too.
 
Honestly I doubt we even need To Shatter Heaven to break conceptual limits. Cursebearers are very broken.
 
The great thing about Arete is that it's currency - both innately liquid and enduring in worth. Sure, we could die before spending it, but we knew that before we came to the Temple. It's not just Once and Future that makes stacking points appealing, because we could choose to buy another 25-pointer instead once we get there. Or three 7-pointers, enough to commit to a direction for our build and still have some left over to feed the Rage. Or literally 12 2-Pointers, which I'm not even sure is possible but sounds hilarious so I'm going to bring it up anyway.

In other news, I would like to come up with a better term for these Arete breakpoints, but all I could think of on my own were two-bits for the 25-points and rainbows for the 7-points. Not very good. Can anyone help me out here?
 
Can I convince anyone else to add sword? It finally makes our offense a thing to reckon with and frees us to consider defensive/magic options in the future.

Apex isnt bad at all, but it doesnt really patch anything so much as it kicks the can down the road, and I'm doubting it will be any less controversial then.
 
Box Lunch said:
The great thing about Arete is that it's currency - both innately liquid and enduring in worth. Sure, we could die before spending it, but we knew that before we came to the Temple. It's not just Once and Future that makes stacking points appealing, because we could choose to buy another 25-pointer instead once we get there. Or three 7-pointers, enough to commit to a direction for our build and still have some left over to feed the Rage. Or literally 12 2-Pointers, which I'm not even sure is possible but sounds hilarious so I'm going to bring it up anyway.

In other news, I would like to come up with a better term for these Arete breakpoints, but all I could think of on my own were two-bits for the 25-points and rainbows for the 7-points. Not very good. Can anyone help me out here?
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Hungry for the 2 pointer, Hungrier for the 7 pointers, and Hungriest for the 25 pointers.

Byzantine said:
Can I convince anyone else to add sword? It finally makes our offense a thing to reckon with and frees us to consider defensive/magic options in the future.

Apex isnt bad at all, but it doesnt really patch anything so much as it kicks the can down the road, and I'm doubting it will be any less controversial then.
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Sorry, but I'm of the mind that if we're not going Root and Branch, might as well see the other Defining Advancement.
 
Byzantine said:
What other defining advancement? And how does that relate to this?
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Someone proposed the theory earlier that things as powerful as defining advancements are dependent on what Feats we have (Stranglethorn being related to Age and Treachery, for example). In the context of Accretion, this actually makes a lot of sense to most people (think about the way that "Feats" string together into a "Legend"), so the idea is that by accumulating Rank from cool or good Feats (like "Apex") we can get more diverse or powerful future options.
 
Byzantine said:
Can I convince anyone else to add sword? It finally makes our offense a thing to reckon with and frees us to consider defensive/magic options in the future.

Apex isnt bad at all, but it doesnt really patch anything so much as it kicks the can down the road, and I'm doubting it will be any less controversial then.
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k

[X] Search for Humans
[X] Bring Gisena
[X] Apex
[X] Strong Sword-Arm

I'd prefer to keep the Arete, but getting access to the Pugilist magic system is good too. I'm sure someone's brought it up by now, but getting to talk to people without the Apocryphal shadow hanging over us is really good. There's no way it wouldn't throw some authoritarian moron in front of us just to make trouble.
 
It seems logical to me! And if it's not true, Apex also appeals to my Barest Cut sentiments-- we might be tunneling to hard on a particular build here, and the result would be overall more cohesive if we took options that synergized with each other all at once instead of optimizing for this Temple in particular.

Byzantine said:
??? Rihaku has definitely not said or even hinted at that...
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It seems like a reasonable thing to assume, given that we got to learn about Stranglethorn after picking Age and Treachery as a feat-- and that the two options happen to be thematically related! I just woke up, so if my recollection of the facts are wrong, I'll happily swallow it.
 
DarkSideBard said:
Someone proposed the theory earlier that things as powerful as defining advancements are dependent on what Feats we have (Stranglethorn being related to Age and Treachery, for example). In the context of Accretion, this actually makes a lot of sense to most people (think about the way that "Feats" string together into a "Legend"), so the idea is that by accumulating Rank from cool or good Feats (like "Apex") we can get more diverse or powerful future options.
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A rank based feat likely unlocks st 5.0 base, which Apex is insufficient for.
 
Oh. It's been a long day. I thought I was forgetting something.

[X] Search for Humans
[X] Bring Gisena
[X] Apex
[X] Strong Sword-Arm
 
Byzantine said:
??? Rihaku has definitely not said or even hinted at that...
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The rationale is that Accretion Feats are likely the things that facilitate unlocking the Defining advancements; Stranglethorn seems to be fairly consistent with the thematics of Age and Treachery. Since the Apex plan involves taking the Apex feat for Accretion, it stands to reason (under that system of justification) that it would potentially unlock another Defining Advancement, or at least push us in that direction; it might in theory even open up a defining advancement which draws on both feats in consideration of its build.
 
I like that after getting tremendously lucky and killing something that hilariously outmatched us by rolling incredibly well, so many people decided to double down and pick an option that barely improves our combat abilities. We're going to waste a 4 pick opportunity on two copies of echoes and 0.2 rank?
 
Byzantine said:
A rank based feat likely unlocks st 5.0 base, which Apex is insufficient for.
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No, if you look at the votes themselves, in the updates, both "Age and Treachery" and "Apex" are rendered as "Feat: X". Thus, they're called Feats regardless of what they mechanically stand for (which I think is not "doable things with Rank", but instead "Epic things you've done for Rank").
 
LordOfMurder said:
I like that after getting tremendously lucky and killing something that hilariously outmatched us by rolling incredibly well, so many people decided to double down and pick an option that barely improves our combat abilities. We're going to waste a 4 pick opportunity on two copies of echoes and 0.2 rank?
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Again, I'm already voting Root and Branch! Go hard or go home, as the young kids say nowadays.
 
LordOfMurder said:
I like that after getting tremendously lucky and killing something that hilariously outmatched us by rolling incredibly well, so many people decided to double down and pick an option that barely improves our combat abilities. We're going to waste a 4 pick opportunity on two copies of echoes and 0.2 rank?
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Without disagreement, discussion flags. A lot of our Arete comes from there!
 
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