Bright vanquisher doesn't really do that though? It allows you to survive a single fight at the cost of being crippled for the next...
Yes, and then you leave the temple, having murdered or escaped the danger with your big super mode. Hence the escape and survive bit.

Every single option available has a significant risk inside the temple. Form of Rage lowers the odds of dying there, In exchange for weakness later.

As a Progression type, I think that's the trade to make, since Hunger will grow so long as he lives.
 
What makes Barest Cut so much weaker than the other two options? It uses less Arete but I think Cuts let's it punch up pretty well. It gives it a harder hitting attack than Rage form.

Durability, it takes some (Though each plus is more significant than the last so so the difference is wider than it looks at first) but I'd say its main strategy is hoping any truly overwhelming opponent can't overflow damage between main form and second form. So it can use the opportunity to get a telling blow in.

What a terrible mentality. Now that we are here, it behooves us to maximize our chances of success, not declare this thing lost at the first opportunity. Have some courage! We haven't even suffered any setbacks, and you all consider defeat inevitable?

Vanquisher has the defeatism game and the optimism game locked down though, it basically guarantees our escape if we're way in over our heads and gives the best payoff if we end up fighting the perfect enemy.
 
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Yikes, I sleep for 11 hours and when I come back, boom, eight pages of thread. Sad to see that Forbidden got eliminated, I have a sinking suspicion that it was actually the best build and Rihaku put it in there for a reason. Ah well. I think any of the remaining builds could be ok with Conservative, but of the Barest Cut has the most consistent offense. Hopefully we can make it through the first big challenge and make more purchases.

[X] The Barest Cut
[X] Conservative
[X] +.1 Rank - The will to go on
 
Barest Cut people: I'm willing to go for cuts or an agreed-upon equivalent (if we encounter one in the temple) if we go for immortal regiment here, and will devote all my arguing time for it. Cut is significantly behind now, so consider this offer!
 
If basic mooks are that much stronger than us then none of the builds matter. Bright vanquisher suffers from decreasing power every time you use it, which means if we are forced to use it early we are just fucked.

Which is why we leave at that point as I said? If the mook is strong enough to give us something like stranglethorn though, we don't dip all that much really.
 
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[X] Immortal Regiment
[X] Conservative
[X] +.1 Rank


I can't believe Murder's Panoply is fucking dead. It was the non-sucidal Cuts build. ;_;

Although it might be for the best, I was getting starting to get infected with Fish Madness. No Aggression here, without that vote!

But yeah, Barest Cut is way too greedy for me. Shame about the effectiveness bonus getting reduced, but it encourages recklessness anyway, so I guess it was inevitable.

Rank as a participation bonus is amazing. The Ring Affinity is fascinating, but mystery boxes are for when we're not taking all the risks already.
 
I'm not sure we're allowed to give up that quickly. If it were my choice I'd have already decided to nope out.

He'll go with what we decide here until it fails him.

He will adjust this depending on the difficulty of the encounters within, but will retain the same mindset and strategy until it fails him grossly.

An aggressive strat that needs to use the panic button at first encounter has failed him hard. So unless the gains from the fight make up for it and bring the strategy back into viability he'll reevaluate.
 
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An aggressive strat that needs to use the panic button at first encounter has failed him hard. So unless the gains from the fight make up for it and bring the strategy back into viability he'll reevaluate.
But the way we are getting it it's more of a primary special rather than a panic button. That's why I don't like the bright vanquisher build.
 
Panoply died while I was asleep...so sad.

[X] Immortal Regiment
[X] Conservative
[X] Ring Affinity


Any non-Panoply build has no business taking anything other than Conservative. Cuts strikes me as too risky, at least Regiment has STATS (TM) and brings along a boosted companion. And once again, I am not impressed by Rank. I still think that Focus is good here, but if we're playing a conservative game, Ring Affinity intrigues me the most.
 
I really do wish I'd internalized how rough the temple is earlier, and supported The Forbidden. I was scared to pick an option that seemed offensively weak.

I struggle to understand where our abilities lie relative to what we have faced and will face. The constant back and forth in the thread leaves me a bit bamboozled.
Wouldn't trade it for anything, though!
 
But the way we are getting it it's more of a primary special rather than a panic button. That's why I don't like the bright vanquisher build.

I don't really see it that way, ideally we never have to use it. The safety net of having it merely allowing the Aggressive approach to proactively seek out Rank and treasures in ways that wouldn't be possible otherwise. Allowing us to grow strong enough that it's no longer necessary to be safe in the Temple. Using proactively basically means our strategy is not going according to plan and we made a mistake in my mind.

Now the fact that we're underdeveloped for the area means the ideal scenario is pretty unlikely to happen. The important part is how much we've accomplished before the mistake happens and the rails come off, as well as how much of a return the final fight that popped rage gives us. The end result of that accumulation will determine how we should proceed.
 
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I really think we need to hedge our risks heavily in this scenario and live to see another day. Rank, stats, and Fall of Night are the boosts that will matter against the widest range of enemies. Taking Immortal Regiment (and the Rank participation pick) gives us those and makes our companions dramatically safer, giving us the best odds of seeing the other side of this endeavor without permanent losses. As long as we can do that, we will continue to Progress and can achieve our goals. It's unwise to fixate on capitalizing on an opportunity at the cost of risk as a Progression type Cursebearer.
 
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Tally needs to have the tally point changed, a number of people haven't shown up since the solitary moon update but still have valid build votes.
Adhoc vote count started by Byzantine on Jun 5, 2020 at 4:17 PM, finished with 409 posts and 53 votes.
 
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Hm. Looks like Barest Cut has fallen increasingly far behind... it's pretty much between Vanquisher and Regiment now. High amounts of arguments on both sides, Regiment has recently gotten enough omake power to be very competitive.

Note that Conservative is very much ahead, so let that inform your votes.

I really do wish I'd internalized how rough the temple is earlier, and supported The Forbidden. I was scared to pick an option that seemed offensively weak.

I struggle to understand where our abilities lie relative to what we have faced and will face. The constant back and forth in the thread leaves me a bit bamboozled.
Wouldn't trade it for anything, though!

Hunger himself doesn't know how strong the Temple will be besides a vague feeling of doom. It's not like the map comes with an instruction manual, after all!
 
Cuts is not especially weaker than Regiment. It's directly stronger in direct combat thanks to Thousand Cuts, with Gisena's own value being somewhat variable depending on dungeon configuration. Of course, moment we do what Cut is supposed to do you will become stronger because that's the point.

Regiment also suffers from power stacking issue; while Gisena offtank is cool, as you increasingly grow in power she will just be too slow to effectively tank for us, meaning that we hive five Arete sitting around doing little(depending on her effects on opponents etc). Comparatively, Cut stacks power on each other much more effectively, allowing us far better scaling(on top of other things it can do) .
I really think we need to hedge our risks heavily in this scenario and live to see another day. Rank, stats, and Fall of Night are the boosts that will matter against the widest range of enemies. Taking Immortal Regiment (and the Rank participation pick) gives us those and makes our companions dramatically safer, giving us the best odds of seeing the other side of this endeavor without permanent losses. As long as we can do that, we will continue to Progress and can achieve our goals. It's unwise to fixate on capitalizing on an opportunity at the cost of risk as a Progression type Cursebearer.
Incorrect. Due to Apocyrpha our goal is not to merely survive(which leads to death spiral) but to have powerful enough growth to ensure that we won't crit shit the bed and die to Apocryphal proc. Indeed, for next ten days we have unique opportunity to farm unmolested, having just dungeon to face and not the fate itself. Although it's possible that dungeon comes with in built doom effect, of course.

If your idea is to fuck around and then leave without getting anything, you are heading towards bad end. We need to actually make this worth all the expenditure.
 
Fanwork#1844 Words

Reaction: "The Solitary Moon"

We've mentioned some of the conceptual properties of the moon and it could relate to the Temple's secrets, but there is one thing we haven't talked about much. The physical moon up there in the sky, or wherever its real position is. While single moons are not necessarily that rare, the first thing that comes to mind is actually Earth's moon.
Mind, this is a completely different universe and the Hero has lost a lot of his memories, but it's still a question to consider - do either the Hero, Gisena or Letrizia perceive any recognizable features from Earth's/Terra's/Manifest Realm's moon? Might lead to... interesting conclusions if so.
Too bad Letrizia didn't tell us much about the Voyaging Realm and what knowledge humanity managed to amass about it. Though I guess it wouldn't have helped us all that much.

"Just what is its purpose?" Hunger murmured, staring at the impossible edifice before them. From this vantage point his eye pierced shadow and cloud, perceiving a small encampment in the valley below that seemed half bazaar, half staging grounds. It was perched atop the only path that lead to or from the Temple at this angle, though the map indicated that the Temple's primary entrance was far around to the valley's other side. Though he couldn't make out details, the outpost seemed fairly teeming with adventurers and magi, tamed or summoned monsters touted openly in the streets.
It looks like more than a single team's encampment, a regular settlement for exploring The Temple? I wonder how long they've been doing it and if so, just how much stuff is left in there. Given its incredibly high danger, either it provides regenerating resources, or the rewards are so valuable that people come like moths to the flame despite the high death rates.
Or maybe they've managed to suss out some secrets that let them minimize the dangers? There is something to be said for human wave tactics when exploring dungeons.

"Having second thoughts?" Gisena asked teasingly, nudging him in the arm.

"Always," he replied flatly. "But if you have doubts, there's no need to fish for agreement with me. Speak plainly."
We forget it thanks to how adroit Gisena is at navigating Tyrant's Doom, but she too has to be very careful when talking to us. Maybe it's easy for a genius like her, and given that Letrizia managed not to step on any mines either, maybe things aren't that dire in everyday life, but to me talking with Hunger about important matters sounds genuinely stressful, always having to keep one's tone and wording in mind.

"So direct," she gasped. "How could I possibly match you in fishing? In that field I can only curtsy in appreciation of the Lord Hunger, who so expertly sates his namesake condition!"
She's never going to let this go, is she? When she's the one who encouraged Hunger and cheered him on! And then enjoyed the King Fish's succulent flesh! Hmph. Next time we catch a fish... we'll probably share it again, because we're a softy at heart. But we'll be very smug about it!

"Very droll," he scoffed, but smiled slightly. "If you've nothing to add, we'll circle around to the main entrance and attack the problem in the morning. I feel there's great danger in this place, but great potential too... if we can see it through without substantial losses, I'm confident we'll overmatch the blue swordsman when we meet next."
True enough, after the Temple run fighting Bearic should feel like easy mode. And since the Apocryphal Curse is going to let up for a while, there hopefully won't be any inconvenient interventions that miraculously preserve his life.
Hell, this might be an unexpected benefit of pursuing actions like the Temple. Should we acquire a nemesis, which is going to be an almost inevitable repeat occurrence, they'll lose Apocrypha's protection if we do something sufficiently interesting to distract the Curse. Well, there is the small problem of surviving the trouble we get Hunger in...

Gisena nodded. "As I'm hopelessly out-Ranked, I'll defer to your supernal judgement!"
Hunger's judgement is quite literally mythical thanks to his Blade and Ring! Our judgement on the other hand...

"Actually," Letrizia chimed in, eager to contribute on matters related to her hobby, "While Miss Gisena may not be able to use her Rank proactively, as a magically potent being it's likely she still has one! A sort of 'defensive Rank' that protects her to an extent from hostile actions by those with Pressure. Most magical beings have some form of astral shadow, and great magicians will have a stronger one, though not to the extent of one who actively develops their Rank."
Huh, that's an interesting tidbit. Something like that was to be expected, or Accretion would be completely broken and capable of punching far too high above its weight class. Is this what we use to intuitively judge our opponents' danger levels? Their Astral shadows? While experience probably also plays a great role, Hunger's sensitivity to danger feels like something more.

"That matches my own theorizing!" Gisena exclaimed. "I am pretty great, after all."
But not even Twice-Great yet! Which we were about to become if Wreath won. Still, with great prettiness comes great responsibility, which Gisena seems to completely ignore. As expected of an entitled noble lady.

"Only pretty great?" He raised an eyebrow. "That's positively self-effacing coming from you."

"I'm glad you noticed! Humility is one of my greatest traits."
I thought it was her greatest weakness? Though I suppose it is the sign of a genius to turn one's flaws into strengths.

"Anyway," he indicated the valley ahead. "There's an encampment of adventurers in the upcoming terrain. Letrizia, we'll circle around to the main entrance of the Temple. With a bounty on Verschlengorge's head and my own Curse-related limits, any sort of confrontation could go poorly, especially if they turn out to be stronger than us. Perhaps I'll meet a smaller contingent in the Temple itself and we can gather information that way."
They probably won't survive our questioning intact, if at all. We're turning more and more away from our initial role as a Hero, seems like. It's no coincidence Nameless turned out as he did, though Hunger has a more likeable base characterization and stands a greater chance of becoming a better person. Then again, the challenges he faces are quite different too...

He'd reaped a formidable bounty of strength from the monsters they'd slaughtered on the way here, and acquired a few new tricks as well. Still, he preferred to hold them in reserve for now. Physically he was the mightiest he'd been since arriving in this world, but something told him the Temple was deadlier. Anyone who could survive a prolonged venture inside would more than pose a threat to him, let alone his companions.
Ah, the vagaries of entering level-inappropriate dungeons. Not only are the monsters liable to kill you after the first mistake, the competition is cutthroat too, often quite literally! The rewards are supposed to be commensurate though, so let's hope we survive to reap them.

"Okay," Letrizia said, "Going by the map that'll take half a day more, but we've made good time so far. Verschlengorge has been a bit more responsive, I think your ghostfire actually is healing him a little bit!"

"Good," he nodded, and settled in for the journey.
There's some hope that Pristine will be able to heal Versch even more given some time, but somehow I doubt things will be that easy. Still, the ability to recover the mech to this level with time, assuming its injuries aren't unhealable, is a nice hidden bonus of the option.

The Temple was situated in an enormous plain, its porcelain claws towering to mountainous heights, but around that central expanse the terrain varied mightily. There was thick, mist-suffused woodland more jungle than forest, rocky outcroppings and unadorned grasslands, even stretches of arid waste bare of vegetation or fauna. On Verschlengorge's shoulders they traveled comfortably above it all, and could enjoy the meandering scope of their far-ranging voyage in relative ease.
Hmm, so a mishmash of terrains, further signs that the Temple messes with space. That there is life around it at least means that the danger is mostly contained to the Temple, though who knows what changes our exploration will provoke.

Would that I'd had a giant robot when running from the Tyrant. And some means of hiding it...
Then the Hidden Ones would have given the Tyrant a mech too, which... yeah, would have made for more awesome fights. Maybe the Hero could have won through the power of gattai! Wait, can Verschlengorge combine with other Armaments? And is this something we would want to do, given it would also merge Curses? This merits further investigation...

Hours passed. He brooded productively for a time. Night fell.
At last! Hunger shows his true worth as an Avenger! He still lacks super-eyeballs and has too many living friends to get in the groove properly, but that's why we're in the Temple, isn't it?

Gisena came to sit beside him, luxuriantly stretching slender legs and toes in the cool air of evening. In the pale glow of the moon she seemed ethereal, languid and inescapable, and his peaceful reverie was thoroughly interrupted. He eyed her blearily, resentful of the distraction.
Watch where you're pointing those dangerous weapons! You don't know what shadowy monsters you might conjure with those feet. Even devils and dragons once fell to them!

"Cheer up! It's a pleasant evening. Your cloak thinks so too."

"...Are we really going to talk about the weather?"

She pointed upwards. "It's a clear, cloudless night! You can perfectly see the moon."

He followed the direction of her hand to witness the bright orb of the moon clutched precisely within the Temple's spires, mantis-thin fingertips grasping and ready to pluck.
I do wonder what the builders thought when creating the Temple.
'I bet some poor morons are going to try invading it at some point.'
'Yeah, you're probably right. How about some extra ominous spires and spatial fuckery to make the danger clear?'
'You think it'll help?'
'Not really, but it won't be our fault then.'

He grunted. "Either we're viewing it at the perfect time and angle for things to align, or..."

"The temple is manipulating space and time," Gisena finished cheerfully. "The moon, poor thing, always appears to be in its clutches! It can't be that the spires are moving, or it'd look different from other angles."

He shook his head. "The more I look at this place, the less happy I am about entering it."
Well, I doubt the actual point is making the moon look the same from every viewpoint, that would be an enormously pointless waste of magic. No one builds a dangerous Temple in the middle of nowhere just to make it look evil and cool. But it's difficult to guess what someone with those capabilities would be aiming to achieve.

But menacing as the Temple was, he'd seen nothing disqualifying yet. This was the path they'd chosen, and they would see it through unless circumstances changed substantially.
What's with this attitude?! No retreat from here on out, Hero, only advance! We may advance in the exit's direction if we fuck up though.

Gisena hummed. "I agree! But there's something comforting about it as well. It reminds me of a girl I used to know. So sharp and clear and cold! A dear friend. Probably gone now, and the rest of my home as well. Or will be, soon."
Ah, Jeanne, one of the nicer parts of AST 1.0. She accepted Seram despite his Brand and there were even hints of something more being possible. One of the reasons why I preferred Gisena, though it wasn't a very major one, was the possibility of revisiting the Manifest Realm at some point, however slim the chances of doing so in time to save anyone are.

"How fatalistic. Your society isn't set up to resist the 'hero' of your world?"

She shook her head, her smile wan and soft. "Nope. They're pretty much doomed. Even if I were there to warn them, it wouldn't help."
You know, this is the part I like the least about Gisena. It makes her enjoy living in the moment, so it's not wholly negative, and it's not like she just gives up. But she is something of a downer when it comes to these things.

"I'm sorry. My... friends sacrificed themselves so we could overcome the Tyrant. It was a close thing. Far too close."
Ah, sharing past trauma, a true and tried method of bonding! And we didn't even have to take a second Gisena option, it happened naturally.

She laid her head against his shoulder, the feather-touch of her hair trailing against his bare arm. "There are some things we just have to accept, hm? Maybe it won't always be so."

"Hmph. Well said."
Oh? What an interesting sentiment to hear from her. I suppose she isn't immune to character development either, especially when keeping company with a Progression Cursebearer.

One day, the power of Progression would allow him to see through his ambition. Bring them all back, and keep them safe once more. But he dared not give voice to that uncertain hope. Even in his heart there was a fragility to it, thin-sketched delicate whisper of a dream, as if exposing it to the real would see it dispersed by a passing breeze.
Daring to hope again must be really hard for the Hero after all his losses, especially when the goal is still so remote. But it's nice to see once more that he's not all 'Vengeance! Grr.' While it occupies a significant part of his motivation, it's still rooted in his love for his former friends and companions, and getting them back while also becoming strong enough to prevent this from happening again is central to him too.

Gisena said nothing more, simply squeezing his arm in affirmation, and they carried through the rest of their journey in silence.

As the moon began to descend, the soft blue glow of morning limned the horizon. The Temple's claws ceased their transposition, as if allowing moon and stars to slip free its grasp and slowly tumble into the dawn. The light of the sun was austere and heavy, heat without warmth, illuminating the stark wasteland sea that surrounded the Temple's frontal facing.
Is there a Temple of the False Sun somewhere out there? I have the sneaking suspicion that the Temple is a major part of the mechanism that sustains this Voyaging Realm and keeps it running. I mean, we could just chalk it up to Foremost awesomeness, but I'm rather of the opinion that something must maintain whatever magic was used to create it. And the Temple looks awfully suspicious, what with its connection to the moon.

A single avenue of shining tile cut through that bare expanse, the Temple's central promenade which featured heavily on the quicksilver map, broad enough to invite a marching army - or to deploy one. Surprisingly there was no activity, human or beast, upon the promenade. It was as thoroughly deserted as the earlier outpost had been bustling.
There could be many reasons for this. One that comes to mind is that Temple exploration conditions change with the time of the day. Maybe they'd entered right before the sun came up already because the Temple is less dangerous during the day. Or maybe it's the other way around and they've been spending the night there, slowly getting back to the exit right now? It's too bad we didn't have a chance to get more details on this dungeon, but I suppose it was really too risky because of our Doom.

The towering gates were shut, dark blue steel upon which countless distorted moons were carefully engraved. Here was a sharp ellipsoid, gleaming with purest silver; there an orb covered in diamondoid patterns of blue slate and dusted with cobalt.
Signifying a changing moon, or many different ones? Hoo boy, I'm reminded of portals to different worlds all of a sudden. And we did find ourselves in a place called the Voyaging Realm, after all, as Rihaku emphasized.

They stared down the entrance from a distance. Gisena's emerald eyes observed it piercingly. Immense as the gates were, they were almost tiny against the titanic mass of the Temple. The curve of its central dome was like the skull of the world itself jutting free; a hundred cities could shelter under that ivory sky with abundant space for all.
Either the builders suffered from gigantomania, were pretty large themselves, or there were technical requirements we're unaware of. Or maybe they just wanted to build something awesome? I'm sure Imperia would approve in any case.

"We could try using Verschlengorge," he noted. "He wouldn't fit inside but he could break down the doors."

"Mm..." Letrizia responded unhappily.
Yeah, that might draw unwanted attention, be it from the Temple itself or from the other adventurers.

"Or I could cut it open," he continued. The Forebear's Blade could tear through defenses that would stop a lesser artifact.
Maybe we could try cutting through walls later on? Would be a nice way of circumventing some problems. Assuming the builders didn't Forebear-proof their Temple.

"No need!" Gisena finally said. "I think it'll let you through. Perhaps only you, but I could carve a path with my Nullity as well. There's an aura around the temple gates. The closest thing it resembles is that of your ring."

He glanced at the red-black band on his finger. Either this was spectacular coincidence or something strange was afoot. The ring of power had come from the Tyrant's finger, from a world and a universe entirely separate from this one. What did it mean for magic of its nature to be present here?
As I said before, this is really peculiar. Gisena doesn't say it's Curses or Accretion in general, she mentions the Ring's own magic specifically. What's so special about it? We know the Tyrant used it to amass power and it was later repurposed to enhance our Progression, but maybe it's less about the function and more about the mechanism?
Does it do something ridiculous like draw on the potential of our alternatives from different worlds to help us? Doesn't sound very likely, given our source of power is the Accursed and he doesn't need such crutches to spark Progression, but it's too difficult to narrow things down without learning more.

Then again, the residents of this world had quantified the magic of Rank which he'd wielded in the previous realm. Perhaps it was not so large a coincidence as it seemed.
So Hunger is of the opinion that it's just similar magic? Hmm, our Ring lets us advance with tenfold speed when we're challenged. Does the Temple function as a training ground to help contenders Progress? A very dangerous one if that's the case though.

He shook his head. There was trepidation, fear of the unknown, fear that for all his preparations and newly bolstered strength he would still be inadequate to the conquest of this place. But there was no room for doubt or hesitation in his mind. The Accursed had granted him the power of Progression, growth unrivaled in this world or any other. He would trust to that power, and to his long years of experience, to see this task through.

This task and every other, until that whisper of a dream became reality.
More Progression than the experience, for it is our greatest advantage here. We're hopelessly underleveled and need to advance swiftly if we want to survive and get the most out of it.

"Letrizia," he said, "Remember what we talked about. And find a good location to hide and secure Verschlengorge. If I can leave after venturing inside, I'll return every day to check on you if feasible."

"Find something worthwhile," Letrizia replied, "Good luck!"
We didn't take the Ring advancement to improve our Luck, but maybe we'll get higher Rank and make our own luck that way! Hopefully Letty won't suffer too badly while we're busy with the Temple.

As he walked forward the gates shuddered and began to open, groaning clench of steel like a monster's exhalation. They moved only briefly, leaving the tiniest hairline crack in that wall of colossal blue, just enough for one human to fit through without touching the steel of the doors.
It's be eaten by the Temple or eat it in return now. At least we'll make sure to give it indigestion!

---

[X] Investigate the Main Entrance has won.

The build vote from the previous update is still running. Gisena will accompany you if Immortal Regiment wins; otherwise she will stay with Letrizia to guard her. Consider that in votes below.

Thousand Cuts voters may want to consolidate into a choice (Barest Cut vs Murderous) if they desire to overcome the Regiment! You can coordinate in the thread, of course, and (within reason) pledge votes if you want. For example one faction could receive pledged votes from the other in exchange for switching to the other faction's choice. Of course this is not limited only to Thousand Cuts voters!

Don't forget to include your Build Vote alongside your choice for the vote below.

You have somewhat over 11 Arete. Decide on Hunger's general stance for exploring the Temple. He will adjust this depending on the difficulty of the encounters within, but will retain the same mindset and strategy until it fails him grossly. This choice may substantially affect characterization.

[ ] Aggressive - Charge forward seeking the greatest rewards. Do not abandon intelligent decision-making, but employ tactics as to prioritize the acquisition of powers and treasures. What are you here for if not the wholehearted plundering of wealth and might? It is not within you to yield or become lesser, even in the face of malice such as this. Rise higher and greater than ever before. Meet the immensity of the challenge with the blazing star of your own spirit and will!

+Increased chance to acquire valuable resources or power
+10% increased damage and Arete gain within
+Vastly improves chances of Rank gain from encounters.

+Obviously, it's quite risky, though you do have Second Stage...
+Could recklessly trigger the Tyrant's Doom and create unnecessary conflicts if there are adventurers within
+You will still make tactically sound decisions where possible, but you will also push yourself as you have been all this time.
+A good old-fashioned red option.

[ ] Conservative - Favor cautious, thorough explanation and withdraw in the face of unusual effects that he (or party members, if available) cannot intuit an understanding of. Do not provoke creatures, if any exist, into fights, and check regularly for traps and other dangers. If possible, exit the Temple frequently for breathers. This may requiring staying in the general vicinity of the doors. Reduces [I am the Danger] bonus to 5%.

+You don't need effectiveness bonuses nearly as badly if you carefully pick and choose which encounters to trigger.
+Do I even need to argue for this approach
+Maximize survival% by taking this and every other survival-relevant bonus

Participation has yielded a bonus. Choose carefully:

[ ] +.1 Rank - The will to go on.
[ ] Ring Affinity - What does this do? Perhaps it might be important.
[ ] Absolute Focus - Lose your next 2 Arete. Gain an additional 10% effectiveness bonus within the Temple, which can be increased up to 20% depending on quality and quantity of future discussion, tactics etc. Stacks with the inherent bonus that discussion and tactics can provide.
Kind of incredulous Bright Vanquisher actually stands a chance of winning now, without Rihaku having to argue for it much, even! The power of Rihaku's blurbs is as compelling as ever.
Urge to switch rising...
 
Okay, Immortal Regiment/Conservative contingent strategy, some crossover possible. Here's what the upgrade gets us. Mostly for my reference.

Echo of the Forebear, Fall of Night, Undying Vanguard
Adds ++++Str, +++Agi, +++++Con, 9 Arete

Choose up to 5 companions whose true Astral Ranks do not exceed your own. They receive bonus Protection, Constitution and regeneration depending on both your relative power levels and their level of loyalty to you.

Social: : Gisena does the talking, obviously. Excuses can facilitate this: Hunger could just be a mercenary, which seems a common enough story. If Hunger has an important insight, he can grunt shortly at Gisena, that plays to the stereotype! If Hunger has to take point here, like if Gisena is missing, the goal should be to end the encounter quickly so as not to escalate things. The solution is in the problem, we have a missing companion and are more concerned about that than the convo. Bam, done. Hopefully.

Things we want out of conversation: the fuck is this temple, obvious questions about traps and stuff. Where are the other adventurers/their territory (Hunger should close his ears for this part, Gisena should guide around Tyrant Procs here). Teamups are too risky. Mostly just want to not die.

Puzzles: One advantage of Conservative might be that we can duck out to talk with Letrizia, if Hunger and Gisena can't figure it out. Or both of them, if Regiment loses but Conservative wins. We're going to check on her every day, Hunger promised, but we can do more than just check in. Does she have walkie-talkies or something stashed in the robot? If not, add that to the shopping list. Also: recording device, video is better than description.

Hard to plan for specifics without specifics, but I expect spacetime fuckery, illusions/lunacy, water, claustrophobia (ooh, don't enter small rooms casually, this temple is almost as greedy as voters).

I kinda want to tie a rope between Hunger and Gisena, but Hunger's way more agile so that would be bad in fights. Unfortunately Hunger has only one hand, so handholding is out. Stay close anyway.

Might as well expect generic dungeoneering traps, a Hero should have experience here anyway. Poison gas, rolling boulders, pit traps (lol fall damage get fucked), spikes, lava... but, like, actually threatening at this powerlevel?

Time is probably incredibly important in a Moon Temple, so take note of it, especially how things change between day and night. Sometimes waiting might be a solution. Anyone think we'll be here a whole month?

Exploration: Draw a map as we go? It's almost certainly gonna change, since the temple "manipulates space and time," but that might tell us something. This thing is huge, a "hundred cities" huge. We'll be staying by the edge anyway, so maybe we can try to shape the environment more to our liking? Leading monsters/enemy adventurers into traps we already know, maybe building some of our own? Break rooms?

See, despite the fact that this thing is huge, I still picture it as having rooms like in some game. Lol, probably not, for the most part.

Trying to think of a way to scout a large part of it at once. We resist fall damage, maybe could go real high and jump off. Disposable scouts would be nice right about now. Mirrors around corners are the best I can think of without drones. Does Verschengorge have radar/sonar/what the heck ever? It probably wouldn't work from outside, but it's worth a shot.

Pushing the rank button to find things is always helpful, please guide us to safeish and profitable encounters.

Combat: Conservative doesn't provoke fights, and if there's a good opportunity there'd probably be a vote on it, so I'll plan for being attacked. Gisena might have to exert herself just to exist in the Temple, "carve a path with my Nullity." Unfortunate, but here's hoping she can still pitch in that way.

"Gisena, use Nullity on the bad guys" doesn't really have to be said. Especially if her MP is scarce, she and Hunger should time Nulling magical defenses with Fell-Handed Strokes. She also has Zee's gun, which should do fuckall against a challenging opponent. Might help vs adds? That's it for offense, I think, unless she has a clever idea.

Undying Vanguard provides Con/Prt/Regen based on power levels and... loyalty. We've been sorta assuming Gisena is indeed loyal enough to get a lot out of this, and she's done nothing to make us doubt that, and has gone above and beyond for the group, etc. Should still test that she is indeed as well protected as we expect. Since this is inextricable from loyalty, surprise loyalty test! What a dick move. Be as kind as is practical about this, Hunger. <3

Assuming Gisena is swole, her comparable defenses and better regen (+nullity) makes her a better tank (except against a trip-ending attack that'll make us bug out, we're a bit tougher and have a second health bar). It would be... tactically better for her to take the hits. Ask nicely, we gotta do something nice for her after all this.

Hunger is much faster and stronger (and even more maneuverable, with Fall of Night... did we keep any of the grapples from the pirates? We should have thought of that at the time if not), so he should attack. Obviously. I want to say that he should flank enemies that are focused on Gisena, but I doubt her ability to keep their attention. Smh, what kind of tank doesn't have a taunt skill? Unless her massive Cha counts. That would be ideal, if we could make it work. Make it look like a bladewind came from Gisena, so she seems like the threat? Too complicated if we're the ones being ambushed.

Anyway, without Cuts we have Ruin and Crits as damage, so we should focus on hitting a lot more than hitting well. With this build, I'm incredibly curious if/at what amounts Ruin can DoT enemies to death while we stall/hide/escape.

Hunger has Age and Treachery, should be good at taking advantage of situational stuff. There should be a fuckton of it. The Temple might kindly provide traps for us. If we can tackle an enemy of a cliff, we take fall damage better than they will. Will monsters follow us outside? Verschlengorge ambush might be possible if so, but I doubt it.

So. Vs. generic monster, Gisena tanks, uses Null when Hunger attacks, and tries to taunt, and Hunger flanks and flails. Leading monsters into traps is an excellent idea if feasible. Gravity is a friend. So are friends.

When we go on the offense, presumably we'll have more specific information and can make more thorough preparations.

Advancement: Oh lordy, dare I talk about build votes before they even happen? I'll keep it short. Gisena could use an offensive threat, as a tank. Hunger could use an offensive threat, he has no Cut. After that, +Protection is nice in the spooky temple and it applies to the whole party. I'm done.

1137 words of tactics brainstorming, if I'm lucky some of this might actually be helpful.
 
[X] Immortal Regiment
[X] Conservative
[X] +.1 Rank

Here's my sudden and yet inevitable flip-flop back to Regiment. I'm very close between it and Form of Rage, particularly as Conservative has a strong lead now.

I'm still concerned about Letrizia and Verchlengorge, but at least this plan can see to her health, if not his.
 
All Cuts builds are going to be out soon and it's the ability that best fixes our immediate need. At least Gisena will be safer? Even that is in doubt since we're bringing her along with us.

Ultimately it's my fault for being swayed from another of the Cuts builds, even though Barest Cut is fine with the right strategy the thread doesn't have the willpower to not spend as hard as possible.
 
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