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A Simple Transaction I

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DkArthas said:
[X] Ring Affinity
[X] Conservative
[X] The Barest Cut

if MP or Forbidden wins than Aggressive is the way to go otherwise go for conservative, because other builds simply lack the power to challenge this place.
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If looking for power, why not +.1 Rank? Purest power!

runeblue360 said:
[X] Aggressive
[X] Absolute Focus
[X] Bright Vanquisher

Arete isn't our only avenue for advancement, better to aggressively extract every last drop of value we may obtain from this place than be chary due to self-doubt. This is almost certainly the best trade in terms of risk to reward that we'll obtain in our immediate future, grabbing both picks and Rank at a relatively low cost in Arete. For our current position in the growth curve, we need to prioritise that kind of massive gain rather than counting coppers. With this, we'll have more than enough power to defeat Bearic and leave the Voyager's Realm, while putting ourselves in a good position to negotiate with Letrizia's civilization with our immense strength. But to do this safely we need to have some level of insurance. Hence, we take Vanquisher.

Also, what kind of loser only has two Forms?
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I will say there is a reason it's called the Voyaging Realm...

Byzantine said:
[X] Immortal Regiment
[X] Conservative
[X] Ring Affinity

The Temple pulls to the Ring and the Ring to the temple. Whatever that is about is probably important if we seek to survive this.

Conservative is kinda the obvious choice, here, if only because we need to be careful about having Hunger be characterized as one that will rush headlong into what he knows to be extreme danger without need.
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Ring Affinity is not necessary to survive this! There are certainly situations where the other two bonuses would be better.

Wolfy said:
Jesus Rihaku, have some mercy
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No.
 
Rihaku said:
Ring Affinity is not necessary to survive this! There are certainly situations where the other two bonuses would be better.
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I believe you. ...Mostly.

But I suspect that if we get Ring Affinity the Temple will see us as a Friendly. Which is a significant boon. Seriously, dungeons are so much easier if they are not trying to kill you.

Remember how the last thing that was connected to us felt and what that resulted in. The Curses are a powerful connection, the ring is a weaker one. If we play it up we may just get the tutorial and a level-appropriate challenge instead of the temple trying to crush us as an intruder.
 
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[X] Aggressive
[X] The Barest Cut
[X] Absolute Focus

The will to find the best treasure, the Arete to take it.

Aggressive Increases damage here, further increased by Focus. Barest Cuts has the Arete to spend to buff us here and still has the chance to grab a 7 Arete reward.

Let's conquer this place.
 
Sickul said:
[X] Aggressive
[X] The Barest Cut
[X] Absolute Focus

The will to find the best treasure, the Arete to take it.

Aggressive Increases damage here, further increased by Focus. Barest Cuts has the Arete to spend to buff us here and still has the chance to grab a 7 Arete reward.

Let's conquer this place.
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Be aware that choosing Absolute Focus dramatically reduces the chances we'll be able to buy a second 7 arete pick inside, which is the entire point of going Barest Cut over Panoply.
 
Form of Rage has enough going for it (TRIPLE stats, not just physical stats; +.5 Rank) that it shouldn't need the benefit of 'farming' to be a compelling purchase. Nor does it make sense except with a very distorted character for something as dramatically and essentially exhausting as the Form of Rage to be an effect you'd invoke proactively for medium gain. You may still 'farm' with it, if you are so distorted, but that is an important character decision to make.

It's not Super Saiyan, a fundamental upgrade you can master and retain for all your days. By its very nature it's impermanent and precipitous. Its immense and overwhelming power is balanced in part by that.

It offers an additional health bar that is 3x as tanky and evasive before factoring in Rank. If your highest priority is survival, then you take the Form line.
 
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[X] Aggressive
[X] +.1 Rank
[X] The Barest Cut

I'm a simple man, I see red I pick.

The question being is if we can get away with spending 2Arete and still get to pick 7 Arete option. To wit, we currently have about 11 Arete, we need 13+Debt at minimum, so that would be 3.6 Arete with 10% boost from Aggressive.

Sounds doable.
 
[X] Aggressive
[X] Absolute Focus
[X] Bright Vanquisher

Breaks? What are these breaks you speak of? We need no breaks.

Maintaining and building momentum is the name of the game here, IMO, so let's do that. Hunger expects this to take more than one day from what I read, so the Tired condition after Raging would be less of an issue.
 
Please consider the Ring Affinity guys! Remember the last time we felt that kind of affinity for something it worked out really well, got us more info on our curse, and eventually led to us being tied to Versch!

I suspect the Ring Affinity marks as a friendly on the temple's IFF, which probably makes it much less "murder all intruders" on us. Or at the least that it will cause some of the nastier things we couldn't handle simply leave us be.

Rihaku said:
Form of Rage has enough going for it (TRIPLE stats, not just physical stats; +.5 Rank) that it shouldn't need the benefit of 'farming' to be a compelling purchase. Not does it make sense except with a very distorted character for something as dramatically and essentially exhausting as the Form of Rage to be something you'd invoke proactively for medium gain. You may still 'farm' with it, if you are so distorted, but that is an important character decision to make.
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The issue with form of rage here is it comes with Tired then Exhausted, so we would need to fall back out of the temple if we actually trigger it, and the base stats and abilities are lower, so we are fairly likely to be forced to draw on it. it is very powerful, but the drawbacks should not be taken lightly. We need a better foundation to build off of before we can reliably not need it as a regular move while still being able to use it as a panic button.

Also: Anyone voting Bright Vanquisher and Aggressive is voting to die due to the above.
 
The Master of this place might be an Ringbearer of sort, if he/she is still alive. I wonder if going all in with Murderer's Panoply and than using the arete and picks to go all in into Ring affinity that this place has might give interesting result...
 
[X] Aggressive
[X] Ring Affinity
[X] The Barest Cut

Hubris is hereby spelled as S U C C E S S.
 
DkArthas said:
The Master of this place might be an Ringbearer of sort, if he/she is still alive. I wonder if going all in with Murderer's Panoply and than using the arete and picks to go all in into Ring affinity that this place has might give interesting result...
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I do have a feeling that is the case. We know that there is apparently not another active ruling ring around, but the Temple may house a sleeping one.
 
Byzantine said:
Also: Anyone voting Bright Vanquisher and Aggressive is voting to die due to the above.
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I don't think tiredness is as big a deal as you seem to think. Grinding battles of attrition are not common; every single fight so far has been resolved within a couple minutes. If we're pushed into this form, then we kill everyone threatening us, or just us our new burst of power to run away, and either way the current situation is resolved. Being tired is bad, but it's vastly better than being wounded, or dead.

[X] Aggressive
[X] Absolute Focus
[X] Bright Vanquisher
 
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Hmm. Get Moon(?) Affinity and than try to start an contest for supremacy of this place? The ultimate YOLO option though, I am worried we might get an Zang Kong moment.
 
vali said:
I don't think tiredness is as big a deal as you seem to think.
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Tired itself is not. If we trigger Form of Rage a second time we become Exhausted. And then we die.

The issue is you are basically banking on us only ever needing it once, despite the massive size of the temple and unknown nature of the threats. As more than once we get exhausted, and exhaustion will kill us.
 
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For another anti-synergistic choice: Please do not go barest cut and Absolute focus. Focus negates the entire point of Barest Cut.

I'm not going to argue here except for the ring pick (I don't believe Rihaku is going to offer a hidden trap option inside an obvious trap we willingly voted for. No fun.) and trying to prevent bad choice combos. Which basically amounts to aggressive with Vanguard or Rage, and Barest Cut with Absolute focus.
 
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In my personal opinion Thousand Cuts voters should really be choosing Panoply over Barest given the magnitude of the risks here. Especially if Absolute Focus is going to win. But if you want to seize the fire, I can respect that decision! ...Though I won't comment overmuch on its viability.

Unelemental said:
[X] Aggressive
[X] Absolute Focus
[X] Bright Vanquisher

Breaks? What are these breaks you speak of? We need no breaks.

Maintaining and building momentum is the name of the game here, IMO, so let's do that. Hunger expects this to take more than one day from what I read, so the Tired condition after Raging would be less of an issue.
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If you're taking the effect whose features include +.5 Rank, why not take +.1 additional Rank? It's massive relative value!

vali said:
I don't think tiredness is as big a deal as you seem to think. Grinding battles of attrition are not common; every single fight so far has been resolved within a couple minutes. If we're pushed into this form, then we kill everyone threatening us, or just us our new burst of power to run away, and either way the current situation is resolved. Being tired is bad, but it's vastly better than being wounded, or dead.

[X] Aggressive
[X] Absolute Focus
[X] Bright Vanquisher
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It's true that Bright Vanquisher does have considerably less base Strength than Panoply or Regiment. There may well be enemies that die to Murderous Panoply's mega-buffed Fell-Handed Stroke which would require the Vanquisher to enter Form of Rage to beat. That would definitely favor the former. Of course, even stronger enemies that can only be overcome via the Form of Rage would push the propositional envelope in the other direction. The question is how large that window of advantage is, since Panoply's base form has noticeably better stats and utility from Thousand Cuts' passive.
 
Well, I doubt the Ring thing is a Curse connection, or we would have more definite feelings. Its most basic function is focusing and amplifying our Progression, so that might be the reason - improving our Cursebearer godstat in some way would be quite the worthy reward for the risk we're taking.
There was also this description of the Ring:
It impelled him towards action, towards greatness, the fulfillment of his human potential; prodded him to embrace the joys and sorrows of life fearlessly and without regret.
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Another possibility is the 'Hunger' connection. The Temple wants to eat the moon, the Ring wants to eat powerful opponents, maybe they're commiserating over their dietary preferences. What if it's like exchanging contacts and they're planning for dinner?!

Temple: I need you to switch on that one mechanism.
Temple: It's not going to be dangerous! Pinky swear.
Ring: Not unless you feed me worthy opponents!
Ring: I'm tired of always being shown up by that arrogant bastard Sword.
Temple: Oh buddy, that won't be a problem at all.

Or maybe it's because the Ring belonged to the Tyrant once. We've seen Apocrypha dredge up that connection time and again, so could it somehow conjure a Tyrant equivalent in this Temple? Hopefully he won't steal the Ring, it's our precious.
 
Yeah, we were told this place is Extremely Risky, now that we have chosen this path, we must commit ourself to Powah-chan, instead of being frugal. Especially, if people are going for the aggressive path, giving anything less than our best here is sucidal I believe.
 
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