A Simple Transaction I
- Thread starter Rihaku
- Start date
- Original
...What the fuck, Apocryphal? Destroying the Astral Realm? Resurrecting Catherine? Making Aobaru betray us? One occurrence more ridiculous than the last one, making me wonder what sort of nonsense she's preparing in the options where she doesn't intervene.
Some are really tempting though, assuming we can social our way around those problems. If only Tyrant wasn't impossible to mitigate...
Some are really tempting though, assuming we can social our way around those problems. If only Tyrant wasn't impossible to mitigate...
Aabcehmu
Confusion as a Natural State of Being
- Location
- Aurora, CO
- Pronouns
- Any/All
They're basically companion EFBs. Catherine^2 and Shogun Aobaru both have reasonably clear paths towards Loyalty, so the fact they get buffed has to have some cost. Plus, we're also paying to have Apocryphal tire herself out more than normal with this proc, which is relevant since after Dien we're probably going to start our Rulership period, and having her taking a break during that time will help us minimize the number of fires we need to put out and give us more time to scale.
Genesys
(Discrete Mokona)
- Location
- California
"I wanted to murder the guys behind your adopted dad so I went and took on some curses from a suspicious-sounding but also sympathetic-sounding superentity and now I gotta dominate the universe or die, also the princesses offered power and it was quite useful at that point in time"
"also one of them graduated to queen, I've only got one princess here ok"
"also one of them graduated to queen, I've only got one princess here ok"
Hmm, it occurs to me that getting Elixir could be helpful for defusing CatCat.
Easy, it expands at the speed of causality, so just destroy causality. It's a bit harder than destroying fate, but it's not like we're a chump like the Tyrant either.
Now you're asking for the impossible.
Tyrant_Rayne
Probably Not Evil… Maybe
- Location
- Canada
[X] Look, A Distraction
I understand the value of possibly getting powerful companions but there is a certain problem with it.
We can only bring 2 with us for our next task.
Spending Arete on companions other than Gisena or Adorie could lead to us needing to leave behind someone who we've spent considerable resources on. I like the benefits we currently get from the both of them. I don't want to switch either with someone else at this point. Distraction still nets us a (short) reprieve from apoc and unlike the Arete options doesn't have too many complications in regards to resolving it. Also All that Matters gives Catherine Lucenthorne. You remember, that incredibly annoying talking sword that turns it wielder into a magical girl? No. Just... no.
I understand the value of possibly getting powerful companions but there is a certain problem with it.
We can only bring 2 with us for our next task.
Spending Arete on companions other than Gisena or Adorie could lead to us needing to leave behind someone who we've spent considerable resources on. I like the benefits we currently get from the both of them. I don't want to switch either with someone else at this point. Distraction still nets us a (short) reprieve from apoc and unlike the Arete options doesn't have too many complications in regards to resolving it. Also All that Matters gives Catherine Lucenthorne. You remember, that incredibly annoying talking sword that turns it wielder into a magical girl? No. Just... no.
Aabcehmu
Confusion as a Natural State of Being
- Location
- Aurora, CO
- Pronouns
- Any/All
Regarding Distraction, we could always pull a Forebear and substitute Ruin for the Astral Plane. It probably wouldn't be too great, more of a temporary solution, but it would hopefully buy us time to convert the Evening Sky into a more proper substitute.
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
What? I don't remember that. Where was that said?
Rihaku
The Internet
Actually, Aobaru with A Chosen Purpose can continue to provide value even if he's not taken along, since A Chosen Purpose re-directs a small number of Apocryphal procs to him directly! Combined with Haeliel's favor, it's a potent additional method of mitigation for the Apocryphal Curse!
Tyrant_Rayne
Probably Not Evil… Maybe
- Location
- Canada
From our very first apoc vote.
Read this and tell me this thing doesn't annoy you.
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Remember: the greater the reprieve, the more terrible the chaos that follows. If we don't proc the Apocryphal now, it probably hits us with something bad enough later anyway.
And right now, even the standard activation is a "risks unavoidable death by task-failure" (permanent death sounds like a 4 Pick level challenge I think, IIRC).
Hoo boy. It looks like it might be time to use Silver of Evening on either the Apocryphal, or the Doom of the Tyrant in order to be able to negotiate with the new challenger.
As King Menethil said, "No king reigns forever, my son."
Hunger will rule the Human Sphere for 50 contiguous years, then vacation for 10 years and leave. That's not... eternal or endless or ageless dominion or anything, yeah? The fates that Dien deals out to people is permanent; he kills and drains people, all for the war-effort. With unbelievable rank, Hunger might lay a legacy that lasts for a damn long time but... Well first of all: Hunger isn't an asshole, so whatever legacy he leaves won't be a bad one.
(That's also actually a decent second argument: Hunger isn't a jerk. Uncompromising, but not an evil jerk.)
Second of all, while Hunger might hold a world in sway and be uncompromising due to Doom of the Tyrant... His chosen vizier or chosen successor would not be. And that's going to be Adorie -- as her rule renders a land immune to the Apocryphal Curse, and also because she has mythical and potent ruling powers.
So the arguments are:
*Hunger won't rule forever, merely 50-60 years
*Hunger isn't an asshole, he's not out to deal fates worse than death
*But maybe you value freedom over "security but irrelevance and zero freedom or agency" and fear that 50 years is enough to leave a permanent mark on the fate of the galaxy anyway, in which case...
*Hunger will, to avoid the Apocryphal Curse, be ruling by proxy anyway; and his proxy is Adorie, which means the actual day-to-day ruler of the Human Sphere is kind, capable of compromise, and a good ruler too
*"Marry me, and we will rule the galaxy, as husband and wife!"
(I saved the corniest/best for last.)
(More seriously... Hunger does take his oaths uber-seriously. If he promised to not be a tyrant or dominate the world unduly with Rank, or to give equal rulership/sway to his wife... he'd hold to that oath. A tyrant to himself, via oaths, too.)
For other ideas or tactics:
*Silver of Evening on Doom of the Tyrant in order to make Hunger able to negotiate worth a damn. (Silver of Evening does apply even to Doom of the Tyrant. It's neat that way.)
*Silver of Evening on the Apocryphal Curse, to lessen this whole shitshow.
Or you could choose the boring path and pick "Look, A Distraction" and try to punch out a false vacuum collapse. Maybe by using Silver of Evening to directly reduce it, and then try to redirect it into the Realm of Evening (this would probably decimate it and ruin it massively though) or try to use Sealing on the Psychic Astral Vacuum Collapse?
I'm not very interested in that choice though; it just doesn't interest me as much as the Catherine one. (Or potentially the Aobaru one, but, eh, I really dislike the fact that the Mordred option gets us on the prongs of an Apocryphal Proc on one end, and risk of Apocryphal Onslaught on the other end.)
Failing everything though?
We do have Seal of Imprisonment (or however it's called). We could use that on both Catherine or Aobaru, to avoid killing them. We imprison them in the Realm of Evening, and try to work things out with them over time or or... something. That's a "nothing else worked, don't/can't kill them; try the nonlethal subdual option" option though. It tastes bitter and like failure, but... it's an option.
I am also feeling far more confident about being able to Seal a person -- whether Dien, Catherine, or Aobaru -- than a Fucking Astral Vaccum Collapse. I'm not sure if the latter even can be sealed, whereas a person manifestly can be Sealed.
And right now, even the standard activation is a "risks unavoidable death by task-failure" (permanent death sounds like a 4 Pick level challenge I think, IIRC).
Hoo boy. It looks like it might be time to use Silver of Evening on either the Apocryphal, or the Doom of the Tyrant in order to be able to negotiate with the new challenger.
One possible argument that Hunger can lean on here: in a word? Time.
As King Menethil said, "No king reigns forever, my son."
Hunger will rule the Human Sphere for 50 contiguous years, then vacation for 10 years and leave. That's not... eternal or endless or ageless dominion or anything, yeah? The fates that Dien deals out to people is permanent; he kills and drains people, all for the war-effort. With unbelievable rank, Hunger might lay a legacy that lasts for a damn long time but... Well first of all: Hunger isn't an asshole, so whatever legacy he leaves won't be a bad one.
(That's also actually a decent second argument: Hunger isn't a jerk. Uncompromising, but not an evil jerk.)
Second of all, while Hunger might hold a world in sway and be uncompromising due to Doom of the Tyrant... His chosen vizier or chosen successor would not be. And that's going to be Adorie -- as her rule renders a land immune to the Apocryphal Curse, and also because she has mythical and potent ruling powers.
So the arguments are:
*Hunger won't rule forever, merely 50-60 years
*Hunger isn't an asshole, he's not out to deal fates worse than death
*But maybe you value freedom over "security but irrelevance and zero freedom or agency" and fear that 50 years is enough to leave a permanent mark on the fate of the galaxy anyway, in which case...
*Hunger will, to avoid the Apocryphal Curse, be ruling by proxy anyway; and his proxy is Adorie, which means the actual day-to-day ruler of the Human Sphere is kind, capable of compromise, and a good ruler too
*"Marry me, and we will rule the galaxy, as husband and wife!"
(I saved the corniest/best for last.)(More seriously... Hunger does take his oaths uber-seriously. If he promised to not be a tyrant or dominate the world unduly with Rank, or to give equal rulership/sway to his wife... he'd hold to that oath. A tyrant to himself, via oaths, too.)
For other ideas or tactics:
*Silver of Evening on Doom of the Tyrant in order to make Hunger able to negotiate worth a damn. (Silver of Evening does apply even to Doom of the Tyrant. It's neat that way.)
*Silver of Evening on the Apocryphal Curse, to lessen this whole shitshow.
Or you could choose the boring path and pick "Look, A Distraction" and try to punch out a false vacuum collapse. Maybe by using Silver of Evening to directly reduce it, and then try to redirect it into the Realm of Evening (this would probably decimate it and ruin it massively though) or try to use Sealing on the Psychic Astral Vacuum Collapse?
I'm not very interested in that choice though; it just doesn't interest me as much as the Catherine one. (Or potentially the Aobaru one, but, eh, I really dislike the fact that the Mordred option gets us on the prongs of an Apocryphal Proc on one end, and risk of Apocryphal Onslaught on the other end.)
Failing everything though?
We do have Seal of Imprisonment (or however it's called). We could use that on both Catherine or Aobaru, to avoid killing them. We imprison them in the Realm of Evening, and try to work things out with them over time or or... something. That's a "nothing else worked, don't/can't kill them; try the nonlethal subdual option" option though. It tastes bitter and like failure, but... it's an option.
I am also feeling far more confident about being able to Seal a person -- whether Dien, Catherine, or Aobaru -- than a Fucking Astral Vaccum Collapse. I'm not sure if the latter even can be sealed, whereas a person manifestly can be Sealed.
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
It runs on Magical Girl Logic. It doesn't explicitly say it turns the wielder into a Magical Girl.
... Just thought of something else, possibly really big, that we can offer to Cat. Namely: resurrecting her dead friend that we killed in battle.
Well. More like, "Make Gisena do it" but Hunger as the Archmage probably could work out a Resurrection Spell, so!
*We'll offer to restore your comrade in arms to life, too
Well. More like, "Make Gisena do it
" but Hunger as the Archmage probably could work out a Resurrection Spell, so!*We'll offer to restore your comrade in arms to life, too
Tyrant_Rayne
Probably Not Evil… Maybe
- Location
- Canada
1. That's not much of a difference.
2. It could potentially still do that.
3. It's still annoying.
Rihaku
The Internet
All these potent enemies that Hunger would rather not kill... it's almost as if he's some kind of Imprisoner!
Maybe he can even get Adorie out of there and replace her with some genuine, legitimate prisoners! How convenient.
ImperatorV
The Laughing One
- Location
- The Voyaging Realm
IDK it sounds vaguely amusing actually. Although if we had to deal with it regularly it might become annoying after a while, so maybe that's a mark against the Magical Girl ex-waifu plan.
Really, that plan reads kinda like Apo-chan has thrown out plausibility and is going full-on crackfic. The Aobaru backstab was at least foreshadowed somewhat. But "Hero's ex-wife is resurrected and fused with a girl who hates him and they become a magical girl" is just silly.
Lealope
Not yet invincible
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Putting aside powerful Companions, being able to expend to Apocryphal's credibility on known stuff for a time is pretty handy. We can plan for Mordred; we can't plan for the entirely unknown stuff the Apocryphal might keep in its back pocket. It also provides a window for us to just clean house in this universe while the Apocryphal musters itself once again.
Incredibly, painfully risky though.
Incredibly, painfully risky though.
Geas means Hunger fails as an Imprisoner. What kind of Imprisoner can only cage someone for the duration of a single world?!
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- Location
- US
[X] All That Matters [25 Arete]
I'd love to see Catherine's reaction to current Hunger, tbh. That's going to be both tragic and heartwarming, I'd think.
But, pragmatically, the reason why I'm picking this is because it's supposed to expend Apocryphal's credibility for "quite a while."
That kinda free time is literally invaluable when we're trying to entrench ourselves into the Human Sphere against future procs.
I'd love to see Catherine's reaction to current Hunger, tbh. That's going to be both tragic and heartwarming, I'd think.
But, pragmatically, the reason why I'm picking this is because it's supposed to expend Apocryphal's credibility for "quite a while."
That kinda free time is literally invaluable when we're trying to entrench ourselves into the Human Sphere against future procs.
Rihaku
The Internet
Indefinite imprisonment is nothing less than tyranny! Truly cruel and unusual!
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Birdsie
Sharp Talons Cleave The Worthy
- Location
- Poland
[X] Mordred [28 Arete]
If you don't want to do it for Aobaru, then do it for the Apocryphal Mitigation. It's -1% for 10 billion years + Aobaru takes on an Apocryphal proc every now and then. If we train him up before we leave this world via Indenture, he'll be prepared for the future. Not having to deal with as many Apocryphal procs has immeasurable worth.
Also, I want my boy to finally fulfill his destiny.
If you don't want to do it for Aobaru, then do it for the Apocryphal Mitigation. It's -1% for 10 billion years + Aobaru takes on an Apocryphal proc every now and then. If we train him up before we leave this world via Indenture, he'll be prepared for the future. Not having to deal with as many Apocryphal procs has immeasurable worth.
Also, I want my boy to finally fulfill his destiny.
Perhaps Hunger can try to influence Catherine to be more prominent in the merger over Ceathlynn. Or perhaps he can try using some of Archmage's powers -- like Essence and Time and, if relevant, maybe Edeldross and Silver of Evening's activatable ability, in order to alleviate some of that "near total lack of memories" thing?
If nothing else, if it can't help to restore memories by alleviating the damage Hunger did to himself via Shattering, Silver of Evening can still do stuff for the "drastically altered state plus Doom of the Tyrant" thing. Make negotiation more viable.
... I wonder what powers the Well of Myth has. Maybe if we dunked ourselves in it, it can do something like "give you a dream-vision of your past self", and so Hunger can view his memories and adventures of his old world? Or something like that? Maybe together with Gisena and Adorie working on some kind of "restoration" ability, to help that out?
Lealope
Not yet invincible
- Pronouns
- She/Her
[X] Mordred [28 Arete]
Will park my vote here because this would be an incredibly sick fight, a truly worthy capstone for Hunger's transition from Hero to Tyrant. Letting him actually flex his social skills like he did in the Temple would be amazing to watch.
Will park my vote here because this would be an incredibly sick fight, a truly worthy capstone for Hunger's transition from Hero to Tyrant. Letting him actually flex his social skills like he did in the Temple would be amazing to watch.