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A Simple Transaction I

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DkArthas said:
And, if we are going to spend arete here, might as well do it on an option that doesn't solely focus on making Hunger an social and combat beatstick, we will be going into Human Sphere relatively soon, stealth and disguise might prove invaluable there. Skyviel might also allow us to evade there memetic hazard defenses...surprise charisma might be interesting to see in action in that case!
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Though this argument presupposes we are going to spend 7 arete here, which isn't a given. Spending 2 is hardly meaningful currently.

Aabcehmu said:
The closer to equal the better, I suspect.
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Probably, but I doubt it requires that for proper control, otherwise things would already be wayyyy out of hand.
 
Orm Embar said:
Then push for researching Ennobling during timeskips! Don't bring Hunger down to their level, drag them up to within a stone's throw of his! Our strategic position isn't nearly good enough to invest Arete in solving 'problems' like being too charismatic. Worst comes to worst, we can always do what Hector did during the War of Kings, and take up epistolary communication to preserve their objectivity. Presence isn't the Plenary Brand, it's not a Curse in need of mitigation but a strength to be harnessed. Beauty is an attack; would we vote to dull the Forebear's Blade's edge?

Props for targeting me with an anti-Gisena argument, though.
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But would Ennobling be enough be withstand our ever increasing charisma!? We might be forced to invest arete even if we go for Vanguisher's Halo! I would rather deal with the entire situation with a single vote.

I also don't want Hunger to never show his face on fear of mind fucking his allies and friends by his very presence! This feels like wanting powers for powers sake when we have an good alternative present! Mere power alone shouldn't be allowed to force him to stop doing things he enjoys doing!
 
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Hrm, working on a fairly rough Letrizia model to test drive Live2D for the first time tomorrow. Once/if I figure out the texture map/atlas? you guys can see all the broken down parts for rigging??? I've never done this shit before, uhhhhhhh

Maybe if I'm not completely horrid at figuring this out, I'll try for Gisena or Hunger?

 
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DkArthas said:
But would Ennobling be enough be withstand our ever increasing charisma!? We might be forced to invest arete even if we go for Vanguisher's Halo! I would rather deal with the entire situation with a single vote.

I also don't want Hunger to never show his face on fear of mind fucking his allies and friends by his very presence! This feels like wanting powers for power sake when we have an alternative present! Mere power alone shouldn't be allowed to force him to stop doing things he enjoys doing!
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Sufficient control handles that problem without having to have Hunger nerf himself, and instead makes him even better.
 
Byzantine said:
Sufficient control handles that problem without having to have Hunger nerf himself, and instead makes him even better.
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Doesn't that require more manipulation somewhat proportional to our Charisma? That sounds really hard! And sounds like something that would require an lot of arete investment...
 
DkArthas said:
But would Ennobling be enough be withstand our ever increasing charisma!? We might be forced to invest arete even if we go for Vanguisher's Halo! I would rather deal with the entire situation with a single vote.

I also don't want Hunger to never show his face on fear of mind fucking his allies and friends by his very presence! This feels like wanting powers for powers sake when we have an good alternative present! Mere power alone shouldn't be allowed to force him to stop doing things he enjoys doing!
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+3 to All Stats encompasses Will & Wis, which should both be relevant for this purpose, and that's just the baseline form. Rank focus alongside Crimson Flare means easy access to high tier blood buffs. There are other avenues available too, like raising our Manipulation to a comparable tier and learning how to manage our Charisma the organic way.

And as for barring him from doing things he enjoys, more presence can only improve Hunger's facility for fishing! Truth is, the Mondo Bait was inside us all along...
 
Byzantine said:
Potentially! In exchange we become far more terrifying a social combatant.
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Sure. But we can do the same thing with Skyviel if we want while getting the versatility of Stealth and Disguise, imagine the synergy! It also doesn't solve the problem in the short term...our charisma will be allowed to damage things in the meantime! That doesn't sound like something an Hero should allow!
 
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But more seriously do we really want to bait yet another enemy before we take out Ber, with the only real gain from the process being the ability to not dazzle people?
 
Orm Embar said:
Then push for researching Ennobling during timeskips! Don't bring Hunger down to their level, drag them up to within a stone's throw of his! Our strategic position isn't nearly good enough to invest Arete in solving 'problems' like being too charismatic. Worst comes to worst, we can always do what Hector did during the War of Kings, and take up epistolary communication to preserve their objectivity. Presence isn't the Plenary Brand, it's not a Curse in need of mitigation but a strength to be harnessed. Beauty is an attack; would we vote to dull the Forebear's Blade's edge?
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Not sure Ennobling can keep up with once we start researching Graces, though. I don't know if App+ is part of that, but no sorceress was ever anything less than stunningly beautiful.

Except the one who was a mummy, but we don't talk about her.
 
Also halo appears to be winning and I'm not switching off Honing, so if you want to avoid that you may want to get on Honing.
 
The thing about Skyveil I like is that it solves the problem now. Like, look back at what happened when we half ass these kinds of decisions. When we decided to infiltrate the Inner Circle, we went with Edeldross Adept for a diplomacy entry instead of Shadowlord for a stealth insertion. While we may have saved enough Arete to get Crimson Flare, we also went and did our objectives in a circuitous way. Yeah we can solve this by getting and unlocking Manipulation but we constantly have to invest on it to keep it up instead of looking for other combat and support advancements and powers. The other visible solutions are kinda bad too what with relying on lieutenants to act as go between and rule as a distant king, using Aeira's element to dim our charisma and hoping her power can keep up with ours or micromanaging our fanatical followers losing time better spent on other matters.

Just vote for Skyveil and be done with the problem instead of having to constantly work to solve it and invest even more time, action and Arete.
 
Byzantine said:
But more seriously do we really want to bait yet another enemy before we take out Ber, with the only real gain from the process being the ability to not dazzle people?
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I dunno, do we want more raw power that's just going to get up-scaled the next time the Apocryphal procs?

I don't really care if Vanquishing or Honing wins. They're pretty much the same path forwards in my opinion. Swords are great for ending things, not so much for creating or pursuing them. And frankly? If it wasn't bolted to a quest reward and a +2 Rank attack power, we wouldn't have Ennobling either.

We pick two things, ever: killing power, and looking good while killing power. For all our talk of anti-synergy, our Blood Knight build is pretty immaculate.
 
Here is a problem with the Manipulation solution of Vanquisher's Halo. Put it simply, picks. Do you people want another competing stat that demands our limited attention every time? This is the same problem with the Opalescence. We tell ourselves we can pick it at an inconsequential "slaughter mook" 1 pick vote but I assure you it will either barely win or there is another shinier option somehow. And thats not to say how are we going to make it competitive with Charisma and its mutipliers. Do we have to hunt down rare or, god forbid, defining advancements to make it keep up instead of preparing for the next Apocryphal proc?
 
SpectatingRaven said:
Here is a problem with the Manipulation solution of Vanquisher's Halo. Put it simply, picks. Do you people want another competing stat that demands our limited attention every time? This is the same problem with the Opalescence. We tell ourselves we can pick it at an inconsequential "slaughter mook" 1 pick vote but I assure you it will either barely win or there is another shinier option somehow. And thats not to say how are we going to make it competitive with Charisma and its mutipliers. Do we have to hunt down rare or, god forbid, defining advancements to make it keep up instead of preparing for the next Apocryphal proc?
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Not to mention Charisma's already-overwhelming lead from Silver of Evening! And Manipulation is a fairly rare Attribute to receive from Hunger's panoply in the first place...
 
As a reminder, the Vanquisher's Halo also comes with an Echo, so even in the Agility department Skyveil's barely better. Echoes are a basic food group, a healthy staple that slots neatly into any build plan. The more we take, the better they get. Alternatively we could pick up a quarter of Stranglethorn and get a head start on what'll hopefully be our next Defining Advancement. Combined with Vanquisher's Halo, that's an additional +40% to Rank boosts. Considering that Rank becomes harder to acquire the more we get of it, isn't it in our interests to maximize the amount of each individual increase, thus leapfrogging up the ladder? We picked the Errantry option with the highest Base Rank, so we should capitalize fully by getting multipliers beforehand.

The Halo provides social and physical power, the latter in a form perfectly suited to the task of toppling a Tyrant's bastion. Has Hunger so quickly forgotten the lessons of the Temple that he'd vote to turn down immediate power right before walking into Mordor? Regardless of how strong he's become, razing Barad-dûr is not going to be easy. Don't be lulled into complacency by past successes. As Hunger would say, there's always a bigger fish.
 
I was in the middle of writing why I was switching to sky veil, but pretty much wrote myself out of it.

The main stickler for me was thinking about what advancements come after such a decision. Sky veil unlocks stealth and sneaky things, whereas halo unlocks more blunt charisma that translates into a lot of direct power post halo. It also gives another needed bonus to our rank gain, we will never have enough with our chosen path.

It's hard enough to have a coherent 'plan' with straightforward ideas like RANK GUD. While it may be in our best interest to do so long term, I don't want to introduce even more directions for us to go.

Halo makes charisma a more obvious pick going forward and people in general only remember what you do for them recently, so the rank % increase should encourage people to continue to look at rank as a valuable commodity.

I'm closer to veil but not there yet. Still like honing to just get OaF as well.
 
I'd prefer to have options tactically available to Hunger, SkyVeil keeps things more open by allowing Stealth, Disguising and Scamming. Halo is stronger, but it makes it obvious at a glance that Hunger is someone special, I would rather have the option to do things different as who knows what the future holds?
 
Sickul said:
I'd prefer to have options tactically available to Hunger, SkyVeil keeps things more open by allowing Stealth, Disguising and Scamming. Halo is stronger, but it makes it obvious at a glance that Hunger is someone special, I would rather have the option to do things different as who knows what the future holds?
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Yeah, versatility and flexibility shouldn't be underestimated...scamming and disguise also play into Hunger's Age and Treachery stuff...I would like to see it more! I always found it more interesting when Hunger's overcomes his opponent by wit and guile! Skyviel gives Hunger more tools to do so!
 
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What do the demographics of the sovereignty look like? I've been assuming elementalists are a relatively minor percentage of the population and am thus in favor of agents.

But if a majority are elementalists or all newly born citizens will become elementalists then without form might be the better choice in the long run.
 
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[X] Sky Veil
[X] Without Form

Now that Sky Veil has an omake lead, I'm turning around and giving it a vote lead as well.

We would want something like this anyway one or the other, and the form of mitigation Veil offers is rather convenient, while being a decent stat boost. Plus, if we unlock more stats like Stealth, ADS is going to be even better. It's a good investment for the future.
 
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