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A Simple Transaction I

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Ok, now a bit more civilized. The general point is that taking Crown creates period of relative weakness/not being able to pick shinies until we get OfA, but is much stronger after that point. So far, people have brought up feasibility of acquiring enough Arete in time and possible dangers involved with not getting build up in time. I was responding to them, and now want to address the opposite scenario - what if we do get OfA without Crown, go to the tower, and then turns out that tower is still dangerous? What's the plan then?
noliar said:
You are being very generous in your scenario.
Which is better: OaF + Stranglethorn + several cheap picks or; Crown + A-DS + Stranglethorn/mystery box DA + 2 fewer cheap picks? That's assuming astral beast and random encounters will generate enough picks for Stranglethorn/mystery box DA over a week of travel.
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We don't actually want ADS before we get OfA due to losing WDS.

Again, Crown+WDS doesn't need to be outright better than OaF, it just needs to be good enough to act as fallback. Which it is; it offers 0.1 less general rank and 1 less combat rank for somewhat smaller cost; value of combat rank is somewhat not as good due Defensive, Guile and Blood rank being mostly the same, making overall build pretty good.

Like, entire point is that we can afford to go for Crown into OfA because we can fall back to WDS in order to get that 9.275 Blood Casting.
 
Wolfy said:
Ok, now a bit more civilized. The general point is that taking Crown creates period of relative weakness/not being able to pick shinies until we get OfA, but is much stronger after that point. So far, people have brought up feasibility of acquiring enough Arete in time and possible dangers involved with not getting build up in time. I was responding to them, and now want to address the opposite scenario - what if we do get OfA without Crown, go to the tower, and then turns out that tower is still dangerous? What's the plan then?

We don't actually want ADS before we get OfA due to losing WDS.

Again, Crown+WDS doesn't need to be outright better than OaF, it just needs to be good enough to act as fallback. Which it is; it offers 0.1 less general rank and 1 less combat rank for somewhat smaller cost; value of combat rank is somewhat not as good due Defensive, Guile and Blood rank being mostly the same, making overall build pretty good.

Like, entire point is that we can afford to go for Crown into OfA because we can fall back to WDS in order to get that 9.275 Blood Casting.
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When it comes to toppling a topless tower the brute stats of A-DS or the War Rank of OaF may be more relevant than a very high Blood Casting.
 
Honestly, the Tower might well have Armament-tier defenders if it could reasonably be described as "as dangerous as the Temple". Very rough guess at our Temple death chances:
*I think we had like three updates where our chance of survival was around 80-85%, plus a reroll for one of them. Magus, Vanreir, final fight with Sten. Round it to nine-out-of-ten times three, and we get somewhere in the realm of 729/1000, for our total aggregate survival chance. If we drop it to 80% each time, it's 512/100. If we up it to 95%, it rounds to 857/1000.
So, call it a roughly one in four chance to kill us. There are a few things that match that paradigm:
*Lots of small death chances, like the Temple.
-Something with high Stats and high Defensive Rank, maybe, or something that can neutralize our offensive pressure directly. (Iridescence?)
-Something with peer rank, which is immune to bloodcasting?
-Something that can exhaust us in a way our Rank won't necessarily protect us from?
*One big death chance. Odds of detection+failure to diplomance+failure to escape, if there's an opponent who's genuinely stronger than us?
 
Current vote count?

HoratioVonBecker said:
*I think we had like three updates where our chance of survival was around 80-85%, plus a reroll for one of them. Magus, Vanreir, final fight with Sten. Round it to nine-out-of-ten times three, and we get somewhere in the realm of 729/1000, for our total aggregate survival chance. If we drop it to 80% each time, it's 512/100. If we up it to 95%, it rounds to 857/1000.
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Vanreir was considerably more dangerous than that!
 
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Adhoc vote count started by Projectile on Jul 29, 2020 at 11:55 AM, finished with 531 posts and 62 votes.
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if you post tallies, I would like to ask you to please combine the options. It hurts my eyes to see an unmanaged tally.
Adhoc vote count started by Projectile on Jul 29, 2020 at 11:55 AM, finished with 531 posts and 62 votes.
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Sharkey_smt said:
If we had Threefold, sure but ADS has a bit of a weird gimmick where currently WDS is more useful to us than the completed ADS. I blame developer the QA staff.
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+0.2 rank is always desirable but overwhelming Blood Casting is not something architecture cares about whereas +++++ Willpower with our cross adding, multipliers and ruin multipliers is a whole lot of demolition capacity. I expect the Tower to defend itself even harder than the Tyrant does.
 
[X] Be the Change
[X] The Tower Itself
[X] Feat: Crown


Ok. I've been convinced and/or convinced myself that Crown is reasonable from a safety point of view.
That perspective is only tentative. The clincher here is the feeling. I want this element of the quest brought into focus, I want to explore Hunger as an uplifting force for the people he rules.

(also god damn that color scheme is good)
 
noliar said:
+0.2 rank is always desirable but overwhelming Blood Casting is not something architecture cares about whereas +++++ Willpower with our cross adding, multipliers and ruin multipliers is a whole lot of demolition capacity. I expect the Tower to defend itself even harder than the Tyrant does.
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Obvious counterpoint: 5 +s (even with our modifiers) does not quite match up to the Bloodcasting plan, which involves beefing up Verschlengorge to rank 9+
 
noliar said:
+0.2 rank is always desirable but overwhelming Blood Casting is not something architecture cares about whereas +++++ Willpower with our cross adding, multipliers and ruin multipliers is a whole lot of demolition capacity. I expect the Tower to defend itself even harder than the Tyrant does.
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We declined offer to triple our stats and make every stat be 3x retroactively and in future. So currently we are doing Rank build which while it benefits from STATS going for 9+ Rank increments are massive. Difference between Rank 9 and 10 is the difference between Yong Shen and Nameless.
 
Sigh. People seem real committed to Crown... Just know that when we come up short on Arete I expect the Crown voters to be the ones doing the Omakestorm we need to survive.

Also I'm continually annoyed by the thread's dedication to not getting cool magic stuff, instead favoring slightly larger numbers. I don't care if a 0.5 difference is overwhelmingly powerful, it's still boring and Rihaku does not create bad options. Any cool shinies we get will be worth just as much as the tiny number increases, and will be vastly more interesting to read about.
 
[X] Intervention Mk. I
[X] The Tower Itself
[X] Feat: Crown (12 Arete)
Tactical voting. Crown shiny, but Change+Walls bad.
 
Wolfy, you changed your stated scenario again. It initially did not assume 30+ arete then when challenged on it you magically changed it to the one that I keep saying we can't count on having enough arete for. The motte and bailey tactics are very annoying.

Suffice it to say wolfy is misrepresenting the crown build and hoping no one notices.
 
ImperatorV said:
Also I'm continually annoyed by the thread's dedication to not getting cool magic stuff, instead favoring slightly larger numbers.
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Do we really need a third magical system, fourth if you count Accretion? We already have Praxis and its ability to do practically anything by interacting with the deepest layers of reality and we have Edelross/Elixir and tons of Graces it provides. We are already pressed for time to develop things we have at hand, exactly what would another magical system we don't have time to develop give us?
 
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