Look, that's straight-up missing a piece. Intervention + Walls + Saving while at the walls, in the face of interesting and possibly synergistic magics, is guaranteed safety from Ber if Arete generation is sufficient.
Going to the Walls may also gate important tactical data behind learning the magic, offering a choice between death chance from Ber, and death chance from the Tower. Crown does provide some immediate safety from the Tower, quite possibly speeds travel a bit, and is a significant boost in several ways, current and future.
I am not voting for it. I think Stranglethorn is probably safer. But please, don't be so hard on it.

Here's the thing. If Intervention wins, we'll be at 13 Arete. Assume 3 Arete per update. We have one update worth of Intervention, one update of traveling, and then our first update at the Walls - that puts us at 22 Arete.

If we go for Intervention+Walls+Stranglethorn, we will be at Once and Future at the same time as we get our first Walls of Myth vote. There is zero risk of not having enough Arete for OaF because we spent at the walls, because we will likely have enough Arete for OaF before we get any cool magic stuff from the Walls of Myth.

We are incredibly close to Once and Future right now, and people are throwing away a guaranteed shot at it for 0.5 rank. Now, that 0.5 rank will be very strong in combination with OaF, but first we have to get there. And getting from 0 Arete to 23 is a lot harder then getting from 13 to 23.
 
I'll also point that taking Be The Change and Stranglethorn is also a option. Change doesn't lock us into to spending the arete on crown.
That is, in fact, exactly what I voted! Change, Tower, Stranglethorn - Tower because I don't want to Decimate anyone, Change because I like idealism, and Stranglethorn because it seems our best plan for survivability. The nature of idealism+progression is such that our survival is actually really high on the moral imperatives list, it turns out.
 
Inserted tally
Adhoc vote count started by Projectile on Jul 28, 2020 at 9:57 PM, finished with 402 posts and 55 votes.
 
Hm. I never considered the possibility that Be the Change could win with Stranglethorn instead of Crown. That's not my favorite thing since it likely skips Walls of Myth, but at least it avoids Crown and therefore gets OaF before reaching the Tower. The question is, how does this interact with my earlier pledges?

I guess if that combination wins, I'll keep up my normal participation in the thread, but won't write any Omakes unless I feel like it.

EDIT: Ah wait Crown is still ahead, the vote just got split.
 
The King's Speech (1201 Words)
-------
Their King was about to speak, setting up inside the grand central atrium that was their seat of governance as Renyan and his compatriots waited with baited breath.

What an odd concept. "Their King." After all they had broken away from the Empire to get away from such power structures, and while there wasn't a specific hatred with royal rule being royally ruled was very much a symbol of Imperial stranglehold.

It certainly helped that Lord Hunger had saved the lives of everyone present, and all those of all of their loved ones. The man was truly and thoroughly loved, and it was them who foisted the responsibility of kingship onto him. The people. If a man was so loved and liked that if he ran for open office he'd be reelected every single time until his dying day then... well... why not cut out the middle man?

It also really helped that of all things he was humble about it. He could have seized power before he saved them all, or even just done so on the immediate wave of support he had, but instead resisted all offers until he was finally worn down not by the offer of power but the ability to do good for the common man. And that really said something, especially with the initial rebuffing showing a man well aware of the scope of responsibility they were asking him to take on, not just the benefits of the position.

Renyan's musings were cut short and the murmurs of the crowd bled away to silence as King Hunger began to address the audience.

"I have attempted this before. Leveraging my popularity after saving a nation in order to help the common citizens."

The severe expression on his face did little to imply that his practice run went super well.

"While I had the support of the masses, the people at the head of power thought that my reforms were too radical, too far reaching. The ones I once called my allies stabbed me in the back, labeling me as a traitor for my proposals."

For maybe the first time since the whirlwind victory against the Rotbeast, a number of people began to be a little nervous about the fact that they just let a mysterious stranger they had known for all of three days be given the reigns for their entire society. If he had done this before and screwed up so much that he was thrown out despite his accomplishments, perhaps they should have vetted a little bit more on what his policy stances were...?

Heedless of the nervous titters of the crowd, King Hunger continued.

"Basic legal protections for all citizens. Any level of reasonable education for an appreciable fraction of the population. The ability to work yourself, or at the very least your children, out of hereditary serfdom."

Wait, what?

"These are the reforms that I was to be put to death over by my nominal allies. They believed that the peasantry not starving was reward enough." Hunger spoke without a trace of humor, merely the tired recollection of a man who had worked himself to death for not much at all.

The bar there was... low. Very very low. Insultingly low. Their savoir had been sentenced to death for that!?
It was a sentiment that was reflected among Renyan's peers, shared disgruntlement on their new king's behalf.

"Thankfully, people of the Elixir Sovereignty, you are all beyond this."

It felt almost wrong to be praised for such foundational milestones that they had much of before even leaving the empire's yoke. It was true that they could have regressed, but Hunger's honest relief that they hadn't still soothed.

"You have all greatly exceeded these paltry benchmarks I nearly died for. Without any of my intervention, you had all collectively worked towards a greater good selflessly and tirelessly. And for that you should be proud."

It had to have been a trick of the light, but was King Hunger looking directly at him when he made that declaration? Renyan would have been certain that was the case if not for several members of the assembly drawing themselves up just as he was at the perceived attention. How masterful, the king's pose and posture truly conveyed majesty. The solemn glint of King Hunger's single remaining eye levied more weight than the rest of the convention combined, Renyan's own memories of addressing the assembly from the central podium being dwarfed despite the assembly's two to one eye advantage.

"But though I may have overshot with my statesmanship previously, I aimed where I did with an understanding of what reforms were needed compromised with what a society that ended up rejecting even those would stomach. I have accordingly higher expectations for this nation. And so should you all, now that the enemy is no longer at your gates."

How many times had a reform or societal investment that everyone agreed would do good been disrupted or delayed due to the war effort? How many promising young men and woman had been unable to focus their powers on helping their common man been lost or engaged with a fight for their collective survival? Too many, too common was the refrain 'but we can't because of the Rotbeast" an excuse to shelve policy after policy. But now the Rotbeast was slain, and it's slayer was asking them to rise to the future they had defrayed for so long.

It felt somewhat heady, being finally given this chance and to answer this calling from such a figure.

"I will be leaving in a few days." This was known but still boggled the mind a little. "The overall structure of your governance will largely remain, which means that the checks and balances during my absence will be in your hands."

Another reassurance with the idea of making this near stranger a king. The idea of some sort of just monarch who flexed their power only to dictate things for the benefit of the common man, cutting through all the bureaucracy inherent in means of governance, but otherwise was absent from day to day rule over the will of the people was supposed to be a nice thought experiment. That King Hunger was willing to forgo the normal vestments of his position was almost as wonderful as the slaying of the Rotbeast, especially with the rumors abounding of irreplaceable rewards for the continuation of good work done in his name.

"My nature as a High Elementalist is Edeldross. It is not a weapon of war, for that I have my myriad of other talents. It is a tool of enhancement, of ennoblement. It makes things better than they are. In the end I just want to help people, and I'll strive to follow my nature. Expect nothing less from me as your king."

Renyan hadn't realized that he was part of the standing ovation until it was already underway. They had a lot of work to do within the next couple of days, but if there was anyone who could elevate their entire nation within that time frame it was going to be the savoir of their civilization.
 
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For maybe the first time since the whirlwind victory against the Rotbeast, a number of people began to be a little nervous about the fact that they just let a mysterious stranger they had known for all of three days be given the reigns for their entire society. If he had done this before and screwed up so much that he was thrown out despite his accomplishments, perhaps they should have vetted a little bit more on what his policy stances were...?

HUNGER: Free cheese. For everyone. This was a bridge too far.
 
Vulture Voting. Who has the best argument? Omakes? Vote markers?

It looks like Crown is rather ahead. Interesting given Core Panoply's lead the very vote before... anyway, anyone up for an auction? :V
 
Considering my debt, I should probably get on the sellers boat as well. I'll wait until next time, though...
 
It's true that if you snowball to something like 17-18 Arete, S A V E ing would become a lot more practical and tempting... but the chances of that are slim! You'll need another method.
 
It's true that if you snowball to something like 17-18 Arete, S A V E ing would become a lot more practical and tempting... but the chances of that are slim! You'll need another method.

Our method is called "Don't get Crown." If we do that we'll be at 18 Arete less then 2 updates.

Or maybe we won't. Depends a lot on the next 22 hours or so.
 
On the other hand, OaF plus strangethorn represents a much, much, much larger increase in power then Crimson Flare plus the blood advancements we used to overtake the temple due to the nature of rank gain, and this is assuming thats even assuming that Tower over walls is the only choice needed to make it more dangerous then Temple, which is unlikely.
We needed far more than just Flare and blood advancement to complete the Temple. During the Temple arc, on top of Flare and blood advancement, we acquired another EFB in the form of Cut Through plus three 7 Arete stances, plus 7 Arete Edeldross, plus 7 Arete Fall of Night, plus... We must have spent nearly a hundred Arete merely to have a chance to survive the Temple. And we needed every single one of these power up, as even with all of them we still had a chance to die in the final confrontation with Sten! Even then, I'd say we were more likely to die than not over the course of the Temple, remember Vanreir?

Given all that, after being told that this adventure might end up being as dangerous as the Temple, depending on our decisions, saying that a single EFB will completely trivialize the whole thing seems widely overoptimistic and deliberately choosing an option that is explicitly described as being riskier over the alternative seems... unwise.
 
We needed far more than just Flare and blood advancement to complete the Temple. During the Temple arc, on top of Flare and blood advancement, we acquired another EFB in the form of Cut Through plus three 7 Arete stances, plus 7 Arete Edeldross, plus 7 Arete Fall of Night, plus... We must have spent nearly a hundred Arete merely to have a chance to survive the Temple. And we needed every single one of these power up, as even with all of them we still had a chance to die in the final confrontation with Sten! Even then, I'd say we were more likely to die than not over the course of the Temple, remember Vanreir?

Given all that, after being told that this adventure might end up being as dangerous as the Temple, depending on our decisions, saying that a single EFB will completely trivialize the whole thing seems widely overoptimistic and deliberately choosing an option that is explicitly described as being riskier over the alternative seems... unwise.


The difference of increases in rank is Hyper-exponential past 8.0. The gap between a Hunger with OaF boosted blood casting, much less OaF plus crown and the Hunger that beat Sten and even this Hunger right now is liable to be greater by a order of magnitude then the difference between the later Hunger and the one that entered the temple even by conservative estimates.

This is, again, assuming that tower is the only pick required to turn the Tower into mega-temple 2.0 in terms of difficulty.
 
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I am both powerfully motivated by the emotional appeals of Hunger following his dreams, and highly sympathetic to the words of caution and saving.

Just try and look on the bright side folks. We're winning at the moment! Don't let sour grapes ruin your rewards, even should they not be the specific flavor you were looking for.
 
[X] Towards Stranglethorn

Even when its most fervent supporters have defected from it in pursuit of new shinies, I still believe... that Stranglethorn deserves some love.

Also: S A V E, even if it cannot be S A V E D!
 
[X] Towards Stranglethorn

Even when its most fervent supporters have defected from it in pursuit of new shinies, I still believe... that Stranglethorn deserves some love.

Also: S A V E, even if it cannot be S A V E D!
Stranglethorn will still be available after the next update. However, there's a DA that will be unlocked by []Be the Change. If we buy Stranglethorn now, then we'll see the unlocked DA but be left with no available DA slots. What if the new DA is absolutely bonkers good?

We should wait to buy Stranglethorn until we've seen what option we are turning down.
 
The difference of increases in rank is Hyper-exponential past 8.0. The gap between a Hunger with OaF boosted blood casting, much less OaF plus crown and the Hunger that beat Sten and even this Hunger right now is liable to be greater by a order of magnitude then the difference between the later Hunger and the one that entered the temple even by conservative estimates.

This is, again, assuming that tower is the only pick required to turn the Tower into mega-temple 2.0 in terms of difficulty.

Honestly Blood casting 9.375 and defensive combat Rank 9.375 is just incredible tankiness/sustain, assuming the possibility Rihaku raised about why the Human sphere stopped farming aggressively (The armament's could handle the escalation but the battles would destroy the voyaging realm) then it should be close to the 'level cap' of the voyaging realm in that regard. We should ask Letrizia to see if she has the insider scoop about the real reasons and see if she can calibrate our expectations.
 
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I am both powerfully motivated by the emotional appeals of Hunger following his dreams, and highly sympathetic to the words of caution and saving.

Just try and look on the bright side folks. We're winning at the moment! Don't let sour grapes ruin your rewards, even should they not be the specific flavor you were looking for.

Indeed, the thread could benefit from looking more to the upside!
 
Fanwork##1006 Words
Jewel of Artifice
Heat bellowed from kiln, wafting across the mellifluous orchestra of pressure and chemistry that held her gaze at present. Ever the genius, blessed with the power to demystify and unravel anything no matter how enthralling, now the Nullity Sorceress could see things in a new light. An Azure light.

Glinting idly in the firelight, casually tilting shades to highlight aspects of the underlying metaphysics at play, her mage-sight was growing finer by the day. This was but the lightest exertion of the Jewel of Artifice, the presence of the mystical made apparent to common vision. Their synergy though had made it seem to chirp happily, a whisper of crackling heat reflected back and forth between unbound facets, the simple joy of discovery enough to rile its aching heart for a time.

It was so cold out in broad daylight. So many shadows, so many hands. Sometimes she would glimpse a macabre image of death in a trophy case or piece of jewelry, or catch the echo of a distant stranger trying to avoid the subject and failing.

"For in that sleep of death, what dreams may come."

She would shiver every time.

Kneeling before the forge, futuristic allows sloughed away like candle-wax within the auto-kiln before her. Its workings were yet a mystery; she could ask, but would rather observe. Learning was more fun that way, a playground for her mind filled with toys cut and molded by others. It kept her mind sharp, having to keep up with the idiosyncrasies of decades or centuries in the space of minutes.

She had once been friends with a woman whose genius was even greater than her own. Now but a memory, Jeanne had been lost to time. Beautiful, horrible time, whose might is without form and thus unassailable. Whose unceasing march goes without remark, only the false stillness of great distance squaring the psyche to acknowledge its grim harvest.

The alarm signal rung, but Gisena was already reaching into the kiln, ears attuned elsewhere. Her timing had been perfect as always, but the distraction was appreciated. The thought of these things made by less-brilliant hands, each no less beautiful for their lack of Grace or talent, was a comforting thing. The wonder that presided over material physics was not the domain of the unbounded or the blessed, but a true Universal quality. It was the blessing that unbounded itself.

Tongs were unnecessary, but she wanted to use them anyway. Best to learn the intended function before experimenting. She didn't cleave often to that logic, but it was in itself an experiment. Today she was subbing in for a friend of Aeira's family, a vocational lay-engineer whose unglamorous role was nevertheless the chance of a lifetime for a woman of Gisena's disposition. Back in the Manifest Realm, she would have walked half a continent barefoot to handle such beautifully advanced machinery as an auto-kiln.

Of course she'd traveled further than that in the time since she'd joined Lord Hunger's merry band, but she'd had a great and mighty steed at the time. That was completely different.

The metal seemed to resist cooling. Its sheer glowing mass was radiant as expected, but the cooling solution was obviously insufficient. What was she missing? Glamers of light twisted haphazardly, the metaphysical equivalent of tapping one's foot while whistling nonchalantly. She gritted her teeth slightly, more affected by the Ring's soul-piercing mysticism than she had been in a very long time.

Suddenly the admixtured and carefully-conditioned metal began to cool in open air, sublimating into a gaseous metalloid with at least eight imaginary numbers located in its chemical makeup. Quarter-surprised and half-flustered, she fell backwards slightly and inhaled the toxic fumes involuntarily. The temperature was sufficient to scorch lung and tear holes in the esophageal lining, but its devilish design made it suitable to slither up the nasal passages and enter the bloodstream as well. Death would take minutes or less.

She was in no danger, findross casually rebounding the substance's malignant qualities with no more fanfare than a light gasp of air. She caught herself before she hit the ground, gyrating into a hand-stand for no purpose other than to ensure her feet hit the ground again faster. Spinning around, she hit the room's air scrubbers with a bare fist, perfect impact jarring them to action without pressing the big labeled button attached to it. She'd repair the associated circuit later free of charge, already well-aware of how even the most complicated wiring-job worked in practice.

She looked over to the bar she was firing together, and saw it had seemingly been unaffected by its own flash-sublimation and exfiltration. Measuring it, it weighed the same and reflected so under mage-sight. The Ring raised its light in two hard cobalt flashes that seemed bright enough to blind, but in truth were only exaggerated normal glimmers. Laughter. She caught it off-guard by laughing too.

It had been only a short while ago Gisena had feared for her life, though it felt much longer. The Azure was much the opposite: ages imprisoned for manual labor, fading at a rate that astounded the mortal sorceress. Idly she wondered if time passed differently for the Ring of Time, or perhaps if it simply her lot in life to help recalcitrant outcasts get their footing. It wouldn't be the worst fate imaginable...

Grabbing a handful of cleaning tools, she got to work repairing the forge and surrounding area for round 'Not actually counting". Blue light of truth now steady and unyielding, she felt it resonate with her subconscious, a partnership undoubtedly both mischievous and short-lived, until such another time as they fell in sync again. Honest work for honest pay was not where she had expected to first align with the Lunar Ring, but it seemed to respect the logic of cold steel as much as that of dreaming's veil.

"The riddle of steel has always carried with it a mystery."

For in steel there was fairness, dream among dreams within an uncaring cosmos.
 
Stranglethorn will still be available after the next update. However, there's a DA that will be unlocked by []Be the Change. If we buy Stranglethorn now, then we'll see the unlocked DA but be left with no available DA slots. What if the new DA is absolutely bonkers good?

We should wait to buy Stranglethorn until we've seen what option we are turning down.

By that logic you should consider Honing? Cheap. Doesn't get us started on Trinity round 2/leaves room for Forbear's Blade 3 EFB Special Advancement(Presumably that's still an option) and OAF. It also sets up presumably a 7 Arete Progression boosted Blood Advancement, so if our will falters on that it's not as bad.
 
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