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A Harry Potter Quest: He who was not

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Dutch said:
Or you know. The fact that the kindly old grandpa turned out to be a literal soulsnatcher. That sounds way more "he is not the man you had thought him to be." then "he lied to me".
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If this was a standalone vote - sure; but this a subvote of the previous one on this subject. The soulsnatcher-ing part is already decided; this is about what's left imo.
 
Dutch said:
Seeing how you're doing the rounds, @Tabula Rasa do you feel like weighting in on how we've interpreted the options?
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I would rather not :) My part is the writing, I would never want to intrude on you guys. Partly because I would only give you options that will enrich the story in the first place.

Partly because my medium is the story. If I fall back to word-of-god outside the story, it will just cheapen the story.


Fanhunter696 said:
To be entirely honest, I have no confirmation of the QM, but I have not seen the QM saying anything when people have voted for more than one option on other votes, so I kind of deduced it from that...

Edit: Well I can just ask him @Tabula Rasa can we vote for more than one option?
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I have seen them, I did not particularly like it, but I haven't put a stop to it either. Might reserve that right if I feel like it is being abused though.

Glad to see you guys so involved. I've really missed this! Just take it easy after the vote, no single vote is the end of the world. Jacob has still many experiences waiting for him, all of them will change and further evolve him still. Just compare the Jacob you guys created by now with the one in chapter 1. These are two very distinct people.
 
[X] If nothing else, then I am grateful – Their action might have been heinous, but you would not be alive without it. You would not have learned of the wonders of the world, would not have had the possibility to discover them. You are glad that they did what they did.
 
Adhoc vote count started by Starlit Horizon on Feb 22, 2021 at 5:28 PM, finished with 152 posts and 45 votes.
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[X] In the end, I am the only one who I can judge – You do not think that his actions were justified. Even if you would not be alive without him and his wife, the cost was too large. The logical conclusion is easy, but you do feel conflicted. You remember how well they have always treated and cared for you. Who are you to judge their actions, when you have not walked their shoes?
 
[X] In the end, I am the only one who I can judge – You do not think that his actions were justified. Even if you would not be alive without him and his wife, the cost was too large. The logical conclusion is easy, but you do feel conflicted. You remember how well they have always treated and cared for you. Who are you to judge their actions, when you have not walked their shoes?
 
[X] If nothing else, then I am grateful – Their action might have been heinous, but you would not be alive without it. You would not have learned of the wonders of the world, would not have had the possibility to discover them. You are glad that they did what they did.
 
darknessworld said:
Not really. We have decided that the act was great; now we are choosing the morality.
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You're wrong. Read the votes again:

[ ] She had done what was needed – While you couldn't find it in your heart to condone what she had done, deep in your heart you understood her motives. She had come from a different time with different beliefs and in the end had been guided by visions of something larger than herself. There was a sin in her actions, but in light of what had been in the end good, creating something that had not existed on this world before, how could it be evil?

[ ] She had achieved what was great – She was a woman with deep intricate beliefs and someone who had strived to bring those beliefs of hers to life. Where others would have lingered in doubt and hesitated out of fear, she had simply walked on, taking all evil up on her soul to do what was needed in the end. Perenelle Flamel had been one of the few Greats walking the earth, taking the responsibility where her husband could not.

[ ] She had become nothing but a monster – You had been created out of nothing but the results of evil. Those that had been betrayed died without knowing their fate. They had been sealed to nurture an experiment and to create something that was wrong to exist and now you must live with this burden, for it is on you to carry her sin until the day that you died.

One is "for the greater good", the other is "a great deed", the third is "monster". This is a vote about morals.
 
Tabula Rasa said:
I would rather not :) My part is the writing, I would never want to intrude on you guys. Partly because I would only give you options that will enrich the story in the first place.

Partly because my medium is the story. If I fall back to word-of-god outside the story, it will just cheapen the story.
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In most cases I'd agree, but this isn't OOC word of god. It's clarifying our IC thoughts. We as voters should know what we as a character (Jacob) are actually thinking. Because otherwise we're voting for what we think an option is, rather than what it actually is.
 
Varder said:
[ ] If nothing else, then I am grateful – Their action might have been heinous, but you would not be alive without it. You would not have learned of the wonders of the world, would not have had the possibility to discover them. You are glad that they did what they did.
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I believe this section of the vote has more importance than you give it. If Jacob is glad they did what they did, then he believes that atrocities can be committed as long as they benefit someone he personally cares about (e.g. himself).

Jacob will acknowledge the Truth that atrocities can benefit some people regardless of what we vote; it isn't in his nature to let subjective judgements cloud his search for knowledge.
But making him subjectively believe that it is acceptable to perpetrate atrocities because of this Truth is another matter entirely.
 
Varder said:
One is "for the greater good", the other is "a great deed", the third is "monster". This is a vote about morals.
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I tend to believe more to the like I have gained after I had partially anticipated one of the QM explanations by a few seconds in this very vote. Basically, what I repeated multiple times is a copy and paste of that post.
 
Dutch said:
In most cases I'd agree, but this isn't OOC word of god. It's clarifying our IC thoughts. We as voters should know what we as a character (Jacob) are actually thinking. Because otherwise we're voting for what we think an option is, rather than what it actually is.
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What we decide is Jacob's IC thoughts on this. It seems pretty clear for me at least. The QM doesn't want to influence his audience in this choice, we should respect that.
jason1stlegion said:
But making him subjectively believe that it is acceptable to perpetrate atrocities because of this Truth is another matter entirely.
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It doesn't state that he believes that it is acceptable or justified, he states it is heinous, but he is glad to be alive. They are very different things. Jacob isn't a selfish person and this vote won't change that. It is just him seeing the silver lining of a very dark cloud.
 
[X] In the end, I am the only one who I can judge – You do not think that his actions were justified. Even if you would not be alive without him and his wife, the cost was too large. The logical conclusion is easy, but you do feel conflicted. You remember how well they have always treated and cared for you. Who are you to judge their actions, when you have not walked their shoes?
 
Dutch said:
In most cases I'd agree, but this isn't OOC word of god. It's clarifying our IC thoughts. We as voters should know what we as a character (Jacob) are actually thinking. Because otherwise we're voting for what we think an option is, rather than what it actually is.
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Exactly, I have to agree with you here, having our choices be unclear from a voting perspective is just going to lead to salt.


Mr. Sandman said:
It doesn't state that he believes that it is acceptable or justified, he states it is heinous, but he is glad to be alive. They are very different things. Jacob isn't a selfish person and this vote won't change that. It is just him seeing the silver lining of a very dark cloud.
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We'll you're wrong, the passage indicates that while other people might think it's heinous Jacob certainly doesn't, being glad that an act of monstrous barbarity was carried out to keep you alive is selfish, pretending otherwise is kind of ridiculous.
 
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Mr. Sandman said:
What we decide is Jacob's IC thoughts on this. It seems pretty clear for me at least. The QM doesn't want to influence his audience in this choice, we should respect that.

It doesn't state that he believes that it is acceptable or justified, he states it is heinous, but he is glad to be alive. They are very different things. Jacob isn't a selfish person and this vote won't change that. It is just him seeing the silver lining of a very dark cloud.
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The options are clear as day he says, while in the same post showing two different interpretations of the same vote.
 
@Dutch (and lesser measure @SuperSonicSound) sorry if I'm being a little rude, but so far in the vote you are the only ones I'm seeing who are making the most noise about the votes, even trying to force the QM to do something that he himself believes would damage the story.

And, I don't know if it's because I chose the second and third option and I'm feeling a little defensive, you seem to believe that any choice other than the first will inevitably lead Jacob to Voldemort's stupid evil route, even if it was against his characterization and his actions so far.
 
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I really think we might be looking a little too much into this. It is a subvote of a previous vote. None of these choices make Jacob a monster. And I don't really agree with the idea that because Jacob is happy to be alive he is selfish. He is a 13 year old kid, of course he is happy to be alive. He should be happy to be alive.

I mean, if someone told me when I was 13 years old that the only reason that I'm alive today is that a bunch of people were sacrificed for my sake I would feel all these things (a bit disgusted, conflicted, happy to be alive, etc.) It isn't really something that can be boiled down to one feeling in the end. Which is why in the end I'm sort of fine with any of them winning. Because I believe Jacob probably feels a little bit of all these things, it is just that one flavor is a little more prominent in the end.
 
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[X] In the end, I am the only one who I can judge – You do not think that his actions were justified. Even if you would not be alive without him and his wife, the cost was too large. The logical conclusion is easy, but you do feel conflicted. You remember how well they have always treated and cared for you. Who are you to judge their actions, when you have not walked their shoes?
 
[X] If nothing else, then I am grateful – Their action might have been heinous, but you would not be alive without it. You would not have learned of the wonders of the world, would not have had the possibility to discover them. You are glad that they did what they did.
 
Adhoc vote count started by ALanos on Feb 22, 2021 at 10:46 PM, finished with 173 posts and 52 votes.
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So the two overwhelming votes are both traits willing to use forgiveness than a cold disinterested type of hatred that permeates the least voted upon option. I think the reason why it feels so unpopular because it is a path to a darker path than some of its proponents would want to believe it is the option of the anti-hero afterall a trope so much overused in the HP fandom that this story is very much a breath of fresh air in that exploration and the wonders of magic are more in the forefront. Jacob will always be an explorer in his life he is not a hero yet in modern fiction he would be a protagonist of his own story where his trials are not something of a grand narrative but of his exploits towards the unknown so having this sort of baggage is not likely to be popular since Nicholas is one of his few links he really cares and they would all pass away before he would ever settle down.
 
[X] If nothing else, then I am grateful – Their action might have been heinous, but you would not be alive without it. You would not have learned of the wonders of the world, would not have had the possibility to discover them. You are glad that they did what they did.
 
Huh, I guess the frog became a bit of a meme. One day I'll post my thoughts about animal symbology and metaphors in this quest.
In all seriousness if things worked a bit differently it would make a great sense for the frog to become Jacob's patronus.


Current vote is somewhat a sub vote of the Perenelle's vote. Considering that I dislike said winning vote, it isn't surprising that I don't really resonate with the options we have here, specifically the third one.
...Which leaves me with the first and second options.

I do not hate you, but I pity you option is the more decisive of the two, yet I don't think it is necessary the more moral one. Pitying Nicolas acquits him and dismiss his agency and involvement in the darker aspects of the isle. He is not some foolish old henpecked husband but rather he is Perenelle's partner and a noted wizard.
In addition, the reasoning behind this option is to hide said crimes from those who were hurt the most, the island's community which function as Jacob's greater family. This sits wrongly with me specifically considering that in this update we got a Lobo patronus. But I promise I am not going to delve in this post about the animal metaphors in the quest.

I have more ramblings but I don't have the energy to convert said ramblings to proper sentences. Anyway, my vote is quite clear.
[X] In the end, I am the only one who I can judge – You do not think that his actions were justified. Even if you would not be alive without him and his wife, the cost was too large. The logical conclusion is easy, but you do feel conflicted. You remember how well they have always treated and cared for you. Who are you to judge their actions, when you have not walked their shoes?
 
[X] In the end, I am the only one who I can judge – You do not think that his actions were justified. Even if you would not be alive without him and his wife, the cost was too large. The logical conclusion is easy, but you do feel conflicted. You remember how well they have always treated and cared for you. Who are you to judge their actions, when you have not walked their shoes?
 
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