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A Dragon of the North VIII: Whispers of War

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Vesvius said:
Simple. When you see someone you like, you try and present yourself in the best possible light. It's the most basic human impulse when it comes to courting there is.
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No offense, but you kind of just proved my point. Putting yourself in the best possible light is the exact opposite of presenting your true self.
 
@HastyGaming You are right. And I do actually admit Margery is the more interesting of the two. But Cerenna plot line kinda hangs in the empty air, I do wanna see where that'll lead. And while I can somewhat imagine where Margery marriage will take us, I'm afraid that the Lannisters will end up like they did in Stark: Heir quest.
 
Eh, one of the things I like about Cerenna is that we won't end up having to deal with "foreign" influence over us. I don't want us having to wonder what the Tyrells would want us to do in a situation.
 
mrmiffmiff said:
I don't mean to point fingers (in fact, I can't, because I don't know specifics), but I am almost certain that at least a few of the people who voted on have never even read this story before and were called in solely to support a vote.
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Which is one of the reasons I why a little bribery wouldn't go amiss

Sadly it seems my offer of a shiny had no discernable effect!:(:p
 
oakes said:
I'm afraid that the Lannisters will end up like they did in Stark: Heir quest.
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That's quite unlikely to happen. Tywin isn't a fool, he'll know that if he rebels he'll just be crushed and the Lannister legacy will be stamped out. He's more likely to just hunker down and secure what he has; Casterly Rock and the West. He'll give up on his own kids and instead name his brother Kevan his heir and go from there.

And yet, despite them being in a terrible position it's considerably more trouble than it's worth for anyone to go after them unless they act out. Honestly they'll just find themselves isolated and cut off from court for a generation or two. That's it.
 
Another thing is that wish we hadn't taken Cerenna's favor (even tho I voted for it), it seems like we're gonna aim for Margery and it'll end up looking like we're throwing her away like trash after a better model came up.
 
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Dutch said:
It's been said by both herself and in the what if Omake that she doesn't give a crap about what Tywin wants.
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Yes and where was it stated that Maragery will whisper what Tyrells want all the time?
And no canon or TV! series as example, Droman said this Margaery is not either.

Plus, that happened with Mace in charge: now Willas is in charge and should we heal his leg and continue to be bros for a while we'll have him pending from our lips. Well, not that much but we willl have influence over Tyrells.
 
Dutch said:
Eh, one of the things I like about Cerenna is that we won't end up having to deal with "foreign" influence over us. I don't want us having to wonder what the Tyrells would want us to do in a situation.
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Dutch said:
It's been said by both herself and in the what if Omake that she doesn't give a crap about what Tywin wants.
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Well sure, of course she'd say that. She's hardly going to admit "Yea, Tywin that guy you hate. I'll be taking my direction from him."

We've no idea how much influence her family will have on her. And there's nothing anywhere in the quest that would suggest Margaery would be at the beck and call of her family...

That Omake isn't canon by the way.
oakes said:
Another thing is that wish we hadn't taken Cerenna's favor (even tho I voted for it), it seems like we're gonna aim for Margery and we'll be throwing her away like trash after a better model came up.
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A lot of us did vote against it for exactly that reason. Even if we don't want to marry her we didn't want to be dicks about it. Too late now though.
 
HastyGaming said:
No offense mate but that's nonsensical. Doran Martell isn't going to march his army to the wall to fight the Others when he's about to go to war with the rest of the Realm to put Aegon on the throne. That's the war we're worried about because it's the one that will kill tens of thousands of men before the Others even get here. And no night trip to murder a few demons with oberyn will convince Doran not to start it.

The Lannisters are a considerably less powerful force than the Tyrells. When the war begins, against Aegon or the Others, the Tyrells are the better ally to have. With the amount of money they both have the actually number is irrelevant because they'll never spend it all and the Tyrells have more men. Simple as that.
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HanEmpire said:
I highly doubt Oberyn will put his oath to Jon above revenging Elia's death.
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Bizuneh said:
Dorne is useless. Always has been, always will be. Their offensive power is the weakest in all of the Seven Kingdoms.

The only reason why they're regarded so highly is author-wanking on GRRM's part by making them the special sandgrain nation of Westeros, who avoid getting subjugated by three fully grown dragons, who avoid infamy for attacking while carrying a truce banner, who torture foreign royalty and get away with it scot-free... seriously, they're shit, and they'd have been cinders a long time ago if GRRM didn't make it otherwise.
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The war against the Others is about survival of the continent. It's another Long Night at stake.

Oberyn would believe Jon on that. And Doran would believe Oberyn.


In regards to Dorne's forces...the benefit is more 'Hey, we are protecting EVERYONE from mother-fucking ice zombies right now. Do not mess that up with civil war. Or at least wait until that shit is well and truly dealt with.'


And like I said...Oberyn believes Jon that will lead to the Reach being persuaded to directly help against the threat. Through both Oberyn (and hopefully some more diplomacy on our part).


Convincing Oberyn of the very real threat of the Others should at least delay an additional conflict we don't need at this time.


My point is we have options to delay Dorne stirring up trouble and gain Reach support regardless of which marriage is chosen.

But we're much more likely to get Westerlands support with the Cerenna marriage. Those odds go down quite a bit without it due to previous history with the Lannister not being resolved by the marriage. The likelihood of Reach support against the Others, however, does not go down as much (as compared to Lannister support w/their proposal) if we don't choose Marg because there isn't that bad history to overcome, and there are other avenues to gain their support.

I'm trying for full alliance (or at least Dorne remaining neutral) for the duration of the fight against the Others. The best chance of getting all that is by building good will with the Lannisters with a marriage alliance (which is our only avenue with them), while using avenues of diplomacy with Oberyn and Willas.
 
Vote tally:
##### 3.21
[] Plan Charcolt 1.0
No. of votes: 60
Charcolt, HanEmpire, Skybreaker, Mazrick, Crimson Moon, Ezra, Ishaq, andy50, HastyGaming, hmmbot, mrmiffmiff, NavySeel, Redium, Arlint, Usernames, Rabbit, Parabola, Vanathor, 95spartans, No-one of Importance, Corncake, oilworker, Francis D. Saber, Dizzy, winchester, megrisvernin, Sidhenlae, Brandark, unknown_xho, Rubick, Deuxfleurs, RightfulSlayer, Felenx, Lord snow, Scarecrow, Zero Gravitas, Bizuneh, Khaos, Xantalos, NeverDies, Diller, Myrzael, core_88, Lacoon, Apalos, enragedavocado, Silver W. King, Kolekzionera, Xage, Hachichiyyin, DriftEasy, overmind, SolidMercury, douglas14141, Enjou, saiman, Young Wulf, InfernoPlato, Shujin, Cteatus
[] Plan DragonParadox 1.0
No. of votes: 56
DragonParadox, Vesvius, oakes, Planchar, jaques, TheOtherSandman, Brandeis, rex754, Hecilquen, Alphaleph, invinoveritas, Kelirapc, sidestory, DerHesse, GeneralXanatos, argent, CatScannerDarkly, A Nation's Virtue, tato82, spudman, inirlan, Bastur2, EliudFS1, Edkose, Walkin' Man, Algalon, Lucienz, KnightofTempest, Jean Danjou, Atri, Random Asian Person, Goldfish, StickyNut, Random Shinobi, ay29156, Probellum, Leafy503, Jack_Trade, slybrarian, Chandagnac, Commedia, TheNamelessHero, Yew, Syl, Corvo Montés, Reklaw, Dutch, Heavenly Body, Medfly, Kaioo, a11behringer, Panther, 1986ctcel, koolauCaldera, AzaggThoth, Vanguard_D
[] Plan God and the Snake 1.0
No. of votes: 2
God and the Snake, Zooboss
 
spudman said:
In regards to Dorne's forces...the benefit is more 'Hey, we are protecting EVERYONE from mother-fucking ice zombies right now. Do not mess that up with civil war. Or at least wait until that shit is well and truly dealt with.'
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Yes but the war started by Aegons invasion will come before the war against the Others. Thats the war we need to make sure we win and too many men don't die. Marrying Cerenna does nothing to stop the Reach from aligning with Aegon and that's the concern.
spudman said:
My point is we have options to delay Dorne stirring up trouble and gain Reach support regardless of which marriage is chosen.
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No we really don't. Oberyn can't tell his brother Doran, the Prince of Dorne, what to do. And even if he could Jon doesn't know they're about to start a Civil War so how could he tell them not too?
 
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