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A Dragon of the North V: The Stormcrown Knight

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Droman said:
In regards to the whole Targaryen thing:

1. People would have to accept Northern marriage rituals to accept you as a trueborn Targaryen. Aka, the faith ain't buying it.
2. They'd have to believe you and Arthur Dayne when you reveal this. Unless people who know Dayne are present, this could be a hard sell.
3. You would have to accept (or recognize) Rhaegar's interpretation of events and accept the fact that you're claiming the throne on the basis of your mother being raped by the crown prince.
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Looking at 1 and 2, if we are going to take westeros we're probably going to need something big to get people on our side, be it a dragon or a really powerul shout. Otherwise getting support will be difficult.

As for 3, the only way I can see Jon justifying it is if it is done to save the realm from a really bad king. Luckily, Joffery will deal with that for us.
 
95spartans said:
Looking at 1 and 2, if we are going to take westeros we're probably going to need something big to get people on our side, be it a dragon or a really powerul shout. Otherwise getting support will be difficult.

As for 3, the only way I can see Jon justifying it is if it is done to save the realm from a really bad king. Luckily, Joffery will deal with that for us.
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Yeah, Joffrey makes the fucking Greyjoys look good by comparison.

Also, Jon got Blackfyre and can actually breathe fire. That should make people more likely to consider his claim. Especially the later, after he say, torches a unit of Lannister cavalry in battle.

And it might - MIGHT - give Dorne a reason to ally up with Robb.
 
There are three things we need to make a push for the Iron Throne viable. The most important is for the reigning King to be either hated, or perceived as weak enough for them to not have popular support. The second is a rock solid claim to the Throne, we can gain this with Blackfyre combined with Sir Arthur Dayne wielding Dawn(he should be easily recognizable with it), additionally when Joffery dismisses Ser Barristan we need to have Arthur win him to Jon's cause. The third is enough time to build relationships with lords, and Knights of other lands, whose liege aren't related to us by blood, a relationship sufficient that when Jon rises up in rebellion they will support him not out of duty, but because they believe he would make a fine King.
 
Yun said:
There are three things we need to make a push for the Iron Throne viable. The most important is for the reigning King to be either hated, or perceived as weak enough for them to not have popular support. The second is a rock solid claim to the Throne, we can gain this with Blackfyre combined with Sir Arthur Dayne wielding Dawn(he should be easily recognizable with it), additionally when Joffery dismisses Ser Barristan we need to have Arthur win him to Jon's cause. The third is enough time to build relationships with lords, and Knights of other lands, whose liege aren't related to us by blood, a relationship sufficient that when Jon rises up in rebellion they will support him not out of duty, but because they believe he would make a fine King.
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Well, you have 5 or so years.
 
Not really. Aegon had literally none of those things, and he built a throne just fine.

In a few years we will easily match the destructive potential of Balerion...we could forge a throne instead of claiming one if we really wanted.
 
Van Ropen said:
Not really. Aegon had literally none of those things, and he built a throne just fine.

In a few years we will easily match the destructive potential of Balerion...we could forge a throne instead of claiming one if we really wanted.
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Aegon had Dragons. More to the point, those dragons were around for a long while after his death, which allowed his decedents to hold on to and consolidate power. Unless our decedents have the Thu'um, or we acquire dragons for them, our throne would most likely collapse after our death, as is usually the case in situations like that. Look how fast things fell apart when Robert died.

This is all contingent on wanting to leave a lasting legacy behind however.
 
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Trying to brute yourself to the throne is going to do nothing for stability. Assuming Jon manages to stay alive and suppress any malcontent in the realm, would the same be true for his offspring, especially if the Thu'um doesn't turn out to be heritable? There'd also be the threat of a dagger to the back as well.

Five years is a pretty long time. That might make an Essos adventure viable, Jon would be an absolute King of the sea. Spitting fire and clearing storms at the drop of a hat. I really don't think we should rush to accept any offer of holdfast in this case though, unless there's a really enticing offer.
 
We can train our descendants. Even if they won't have dragon soul, they will still carry our blood so they should be talented than average in Thu'um and should learn easier. Thu'um shouldn't be heritable, you need to learn it whether you are a normal person or a dragonborn. Jon is a very special case as his past life already knows it and he can learn it from those memories.
 
Brandark said:
So far, the only land offered to us up to this point is Summerhall. Jon did think of North, but we'd have to wait for Ned to extend his offer before knowing the particulars. Harrenhal was thought of by Brynden, but we don't know what came of it, or what conditions Hoster will set when he gives us the land, if he gives it at all., Oldstones, other places in the Vale etc. are all just our speculation at this point.
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I think Hoster offered us Oldstones if we married a Frey. He might do it without that string attached now because he sees the value of Bran having an unquestionable loyal vassal.
 
Edkose said:
I think Hoster offered us Oldstones if we married a Frey. He might do it without that string attached now because he sees the value of Bran having an unquestionable loyal vassal.
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Perhaps. We'll see. If we end up aiming for the throne, things are going to be awkward between us and our liege, even in the best case scenario. I'd rather it be Renly or Arryn or somebody else other than Bran, Rob or Ned.

The terms of service are the most important, followed by the amount and nature of the land we're being offered. I very much doubt that Hoster will be generous enough to offer us a choice between Oldstones and Harrenhal. It's likely to be just one, with marriage being a probability.
 
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Edkose said:
I think Hoster offered us Oldstones if we married a Frey. He might do it without that string attached now because he sees the value of Bran having an unquestionable loyal vassal.
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I can't find anything about Oldstones in the archives. And should we marry a Frey *Shivers* Roslin is our age.
 
SwordsmanofS said:
we acquire dragons for them
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Get Daenerys to the Westeros once there is a Tagaryen(Jon) back on the Throne?

I don't advocate marrying her, but it is on the table if need be.



Dutch said:
I can't find anything about Oldstones in the archives. And should we marry a Frey *Shivers* Roslin is our age.
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You know, the Freys have gotten a LOT more entertaining since I started playing Crusader Kings.

I can forsee the Mother of all succession crises.
 
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Brandark said:
Perhaps. We'll see. If we end up aiming for the throne, things are going to be awkward between us and our liege, even in the best case scenario. I'd rather it be Renly or Arryn or somebody else other than Bran, Rob or Ned.

The terms of service are the most important, followed by the amount and nature of the land we're being offered. I very much doubt that Hoster will be generous enough to offer us a choice between Oldstones and Harrenhal. It's likely to be just one, with marriage being a probability.
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I do not see Hoster giving us the choice of Harrenhal.

I think I'd rather have Arryn as liege rather than Renly. When our magic become known we can explain that we healed his son. Lysa would back us on that point.

On that note here is a list on people We could heal to get support :
Willas Tyrell, next LP of Reach
Doran Martell, LP of Dorne
Shireen Baratheon, only true born heir to the Storm lands.

Healing Shireen will not have an effect unless Stannis dies, while the others will have a more immediate result.

Just a thought
 
I'd be fine with supplanting the Tyrells or the Lannisters so that we become a Lord Paramount, rather then going for a kingship. Unfortunately, kingship is likelier.
 
Atri said:
So the majority here wants to go for the throne then?
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Even ignoring how powerhungry the playerbase (me included of course) is, odds are it would be the quickest way to bring the fighting to an end.
Anyone without our bullshit Thu'um or dragons will have difficulty holding on to the throne in this political climate and with us being a walking weapon of mass destruction and having claim to the throne we'd most likely be too dangerous for them to leave alive anyways.
The only ones I can see us playing second fiddle to without things going bad after a while are people whom we trust unconditionally and who trust us in return and not only are those people in very short supply, but they also don't include anyone who is a candidate for the Iron Throne.
 
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Edkose said:
Doran Martell, LP of Dorne
Shireen Baratheon, only true born heir to the Storm lands.
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Doran Martell has gout. Unless he changes his lifestyle, then even if we do heal him, he's just going to get it again. Not to mention Greyscale is, if you believe the tinfoil, possibly a magical disease. Healing it might not be as simple as you think.

Moreover, Stannis is unlikely to ever support our bid for the throne. Scratch that. Stannis is never going to support our bid for the throne. Considering that Shireen's "sickness" isn't actually painful or debilitating her, being the equivalent of her plastic surgeon to get the support of a man, who will never support us, doesn't seem especially prudent.

I also think you're over-estimating how much influence this shout will get us. It's not going to be a magical friendship no jutsu. Even if we heal them, any of these people will still stab us in the back the moment our interests conflict.
 
Edkose said:
I do not see Hoster giving us the choice of Harrenhal.

I think I'd rather have Arryn as liege rather than Renly. When our magic become known we can explain that we healed his son. Lysa would back us on that point.

On that note here is a list on people We could heal to get support :
Willas Tyrell, next LP of Reach
Doran Martell, LP of Dorne
Shireen Baratheon, only true born heir to the Storm lands.

Healing Shireen will not have an effect unless Stannis dies, while the others will have a more immediate result.

Just a thought
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If we do heal Willas and Doran, Summerhall would be the perfect place from where we can cash in their goodwill, consideing it's located in the Dornish Marches and is quite close to the Reach. If we do get the opportunity to heal Shireen then I'd go for it, regardless of whether we earn Stannis' support or not.

You have a point about Arryn being a better liege than Renly. Problem is, Arryn is highly likely to be dead by the time the war rolls around, and Baelish would be in charge with Lysa as proxy.

I'd still consider Vale if the offer is lucrative enough.
 
Well if we want t use our shouts in the open, and that is something we will need to do to stop the White Walkers for example, we need a king on the throne that likes and respects us. Robert would probably fulfil this requirement if we can keep our Targryen ancestry secret but I see sadly no way how we would manage to keep him alive long enough.
Joffrey on the other hand already envies us and I don´t believe anyone here would be willing to work with him. And with the civil war seemingly a secure thing we will need to choose side if we want to remain in Westereos. So we either have to support a candidate we can trust, and in my eyes that would mean Robb/Eddard who however both have no good claim for the throne, or we reach for the crown ourself.


And for Daenerys, we should really try to ally with her. Her dragons would help immensely with everything and it would prevent the Targrayern loyalists from splitting into different sides. I don´t think a marriage would be necessary, simply offering her a safe haven and being nice to her could go a long way... And if she wants some power, well there will probably be quite a few open Lord Paramountships that we could give her.
 
Pipeman said:
Even ignoring how powerhungry the playerbase (me included of course) is, odds are it would be the quickest way to bring the fighting to an end.
Anyone without our bullshit Thu'um or dragons will have difficulty holding on to the throne in this political climate and with us being a walking weapon of mass destruction and having claim to the throne we'd most likely be too dangerous for them to leave alive anyways.
The only ones I can see us playing second fiddle to without things going bad after a while are people whom we trust unconditionally and who trust us in return and not only are those people in very short supply, but they also don't include anyone who is a candidate for the Iron Throne.
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True enough. Question is: will it be just as interesting? Going for the throne is a pretty common route to take in games, after all. Besides, I could imagine us helping the North get its independence, perhaps establishing our own little kingdom which has nothing to do with the Iron Throne, like...Iron Islands+Westerlands or something. That would be intriguing. :D
 
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