A Dragon of the North V: The Stormcrown Knight

1. While Ned didn't and would never have liked Arthur, I'm unsure just how much to the extent he would hate him. He didn't condemn Jaime for standing by while Aerys burned his enemies. And I doubt Arthur told him that he'd held Lyanna down while Rhaegar raped her or the like.

2. The only possible example of Ned 'living upon his big horse of morality' in canon is his condemnation of Jaime for killing Aerys. Which is: a) Because Jaime is an idiot who has never once bothered to tell anyone what exactly sent him over the edge, and b) Oaths are the building blocks of the feudal world.

a) is not Ned's fault, and anyone who thinks he wouldn't change his mind if he knew the truth of the matter deserves to be slapped silly. While I find b) understandable, I'll agree that Ned could stand to be much more pragmatic and get over it.

But the above is not remotely an example of why Ned would rock up to his grieving, bitter, distrustful son and say "Meh. You brought this on yourself; sucks to be you." And anyone who would argue otherwise has all their work ahead of them, and best of luck trying to prove it.

He knows that Rhaegar raped Lyanna and Dayne didn't do anything to stop him though.
He condemned Jaime for killing a mad king, the same king that killed his father and brother because he broke his oaths while he condemned Dayne not only due to his fanatical loyalty to the Targaryens but also because he let the rape happen, beacuse he didn't go against his duty as a Kingsguard.
I'm not saying Ned is wrong in believing this (I think anyone would do the same in his place) but it adds a little of hypocrisy to his character...which is fine because it makes him more human.

And of course Ned wouldn't say that to Jon but given his temper right now even the slightest word could be interpreted badly, which may elicit a bad reaction from Ned and you get the picture. But as I said I'm not opposed to meet him, just wary of what may go wrong.
 
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Allow me to rephrase.

Is Jon trying to apologise to Ned or behaving conciliatory/humble going to hit us with a penalty due to just being Dovahkiin? Or would it just be the likes of traits that we've accumulated independent of that?
It will depend on how you approach Ned.

He condemned Jaime for killing a mad king, the same king that killed his father and brother because he broke his oaths while he condemned Dayne not only due to his fanatical loyalty to the Targaryens but also because he let the rape happen, beacuse he didn't go against his duty as a Kingsguard.

He condemned Jaime for doing so while it was safe (and the whole seating himself on the Iron Throne) instead of when at any other point he could have done so and saved countless lives. But instead it was when his father's army came through the capital and when Gregor Clegane and Amory Lorch murdered the royal family. Jaime Lannister to him, is but a part of the greater part of the "Fuck House Lannister" theme he has going.

His problem with Dayne is that he helped kidnap his sister and assist in her rape and the birth of his rape nephew out of loyalty to Rhaegar Targaryen.

It's a running theme with the last two generations of Kingsguard that they tend to stand by in cases of marital (or otherwise) rape.
 
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Allow me to rephrase.

Is Jon trying to apologise to Ned or behaving conciliatory/humble going to hit us with a penalty due to just being Dovahkiin? Or would it just be the likes of traits that we've accumulated independent of that?



That is not even close to Ned being on a moral high horse. That's Ned being a remotely decent human being.

And I'm not continuing that argument with you.

I think what we really need is for Jon to break down in front of Ned, cry, scream, rage and generally be a young teenager and get all that stuff out in the open while Ned stoically listens and then actually helps him. Because that's Ned and he's still Jon's father, no matter the blood.
 
So what, we should put our problems in a box waiting for them to go away? That's not healthy, neither for Jon and those around him who will have to deal with his "explosive" episodes.
Accepting (embracing implies too much willingness IMO) your Dovah side doesn't preclude you from having lines not to be crossed or simply putting down your foot and say no to yourself. The human side is as much as a leash to the Dovah as the opposite.

When did I say that? I said that using Greybeards meditation to supress our nature until we find a definite way to deal with things would be productive. Also that it was one of the ways Jon could follow on the long run. I also pointed out the past examples of Dov and Dovahkiin. It was actually the most important part of my post in my opinion.

The effects it will have on you likely depends on your personality. Durnehviir for example went after his ''dreams'', was tricked and cursed for eternity in his foolishness. Odahviing's arrogance ended with being captured while he could simply avoid Dovahkiin. Tiber Septim became a plotting bastard and Wulfharth was simply too violent in the ways he did things. Miraak thought he conquered his fate, but was fooled by it instead. Alduin ignored his nature, was defeated by mortals because of his arrogance and defeated later by the Dragonborn he didn't kill while the latter was weak. Paarthurnax's name explains what kind of person he was in the past.

Right. From these examples, you can see that the effects Dovah soul has on a being depends on the said being and the situation it's in. What I essentially tried to say was: Dovah side is dangerous and should be treated with extreme care. You are simplfying it by saying that it's ''destruction and domination''. It also cannot be leashed or unleashed at command like an attack dog. It is a very big part of your being, one that shapes your entire character whether you like it or not.

Edit:

Possessing the Thu'um doesn't change your personality. Anyone can learn the Thu'um. The Dovah itself has effects on Jon's personality and attitudes, and always has. I wouldn't say it makes him incapable of taking criticism, though. He took criticism from Hoster most recently and it was fine.

Thu'um itself should affect us though, Droman. Remember what Arngeir said about Dragonrend? If I remember it right, he said that since we were taking the shouts into the very essence of our being, it was effecting us and since Dragonrend was pure hatred, it could affect us in a negative way. Other shouts will have different effects of course, depending on the shout's strength and type.
 
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He knows that Rhaegar raped Lyanna and Dayne didn't do anything to stop him though.
He condemned Jaime for killing a mad king, the same king that killed his father and brother because he broke his oaths while he condemned Dayne not only due to his fanatical loyalty to the Targaryens but also because he let the rape happen, beacuse he didn't go against his duty as a Kingsguard.
I'm not saying Ned is wrong in believing this (I think anyone would do the same in his place) but adds a little of hypocrisy to his character...which is fine because it makes him more human.

Started a long-winded response, which was more or less rendered irrelevant by the below.

It will depend on how you approach Ned.

But if it's circumstantial, is it still Dovahkiin based?

If so, I'm really, really disappointed to hear that. Any kind of 'nope, you're a Dovahkiin, so acting like that is a straight up -10 penalty' approach is aggravating in the extreme.

He condemned Jaime for doing so while it was safe (and the whole seating himself on the Iron Throne) instead of when at any other point he could have done so and saved countless lives. But instead it was when his father's army came through the capital and when Gregor Clegane and Amory Lorch murdered the royal family. Jaime Lannister to him, is but a part of the greater part of the "Fuck House Lannister" theme he has going.

His problem with Dayne is that he helped kidnap his sister and assist in her rape and the birth of his rape nephew out of loyalty to Rhaegar Targaryen.

It's a running theme with the last two generations of Kingsguard that they tend to stand by in cases of marital (or otherwise) rape.

Can't comment on what his problem with Dayne is here, since it's dictated by you as it never happened in canon.

But I never interpreted the Jaime situation like that in regards to his reasons. The only explicit reason he ever gives, to the best of my recollection, is:

Game of Thrones said:
Robert: Why should I mistrust him? He has done everything I have ever asked of him. His sword helped win the throne I sit on.
Eddard: He swore a vow to protect his king's life with his own. Then he opened that king's throat with a sword.
Robert: Seven hells, someone had to kill Aerys! if Jaime hadn't done it, it would have been left for you or me.
Eddard: We were not Sworn Brothers of the Kingsguard.

Cowardice isn't something I ever remember him accusing Jaime of, whether to his face or internally. Though if he did so after the Jory affair, it'd be understandable.
 
Thu'um itself should affect us Droman. Remember what Arngeir said about Dragonrend? If I remember it right, he said that since we were taking the shouts into the very essence of our being, it was effecting us and since Dragonrend was pure hatred, it could affect us in a negative way. Other shouts will have different effects of course, depending on the shout's strength and type.

I said the Thu'um itself, generally speaking. Individual shouts might have their own effects on personality and attitude, but Dragonrend is on the worser side of the spectrum since it impresses the concept of mortality on an immortal soul.

But if it's circumstantial, is it still Dovahkiin based? If so, I'm really, really disappointed to hear that. Any kind of 'nope, you're a Dovahkiin, so acting like that is a straight up -10 penalty' approach is aggravating in the extreme.
You do understand I can't spoil potential path stuff before you actually, choose it, right?

Can't comment on what his problem with Dayne is here, since it's dictated by you as it never happened in canon. But I never interpreted the Jaime situation like that in regards to his reasons. The only explicit reason he ever gives, to the best of my recollection, is:

Cowardice isn't something I ever remember him accusing Jaime of, whether to his face or internally. Though if he did so after the Jory affair, it'd be understandable.
This quest is a blend of books, show, associated materials and my own thoughts and changes.
 
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@LastChronicler: Books and Show meld in some parts through this quest. They didn't fuck everything up after all.

Oh, I don't think that the show is bad overall. I'm just wary of examples of it beings considered universally canon.

You do understand I can't spoil potential path stuff before you actually, choose it, right?

Yes, but I would hope that a little insight into mechanics if we have a page for Traits and modifiers and the like isn't unreasonable. Obviously the GM has to be allowed mysteries that can come in to play, but it undermines the whole point of having those particular pages if you can say 'Nah, secret modifier I've been sitting on that you've always had, it's actually a fail'.

I wouldn't say it would be unfair per se, the D100 could have functionally rolled whatever to begin with, but it's a little inconsistent at the least.
 
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Whelp.

We just made the Faith double plus mad at us. And we're only thirteen.

I'd almost be proud if our situation and general disposition just didn't get much worse.
 
But if it's circumstantial, is it still Dovahkiin based?

If so, I'm really, really disappointed to hear that. Any kind of 'nope, you're a Dovahkiin, so acting like that is a straight up -10 penalty' approach is aggravating in the extreme.

Rather than ''you are a Dovahkiin'', it may become ''it's against your personality'' I guess. Though for the most part, Jon looked like he regrets not listening to Ned's warnings. So taking a humble approach should be OK.

What people, including me, fear is that Ned is going to try to push this forward instead of just leaving it at that. For example, when he tried to convince us to stay away from the throne, Jon exploded in rage because Ned was essentially pressuring him. Jon didn't even sound truly interested in claiming it before. It was because Ned was pressuring him that he was angered.

If Ned tries to pressure Jon into something else this time, it may end up worse than before because Jon is even more aggressive compared to before. Yeah. So we should be careful as to how to approach Ned. An approach that makes Ned understand just how much shit Jon is in would be the best in my opinion.
 
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Rather than ''you are a Dovahkiin'', it may become ''it's against your personality'' I guess. Though for the most part, Jon looked like he regrets not listening to Ned's warnings. So taking a humble approach should be OK.

What people, including me, fear is that Ned is going to try to push this forward instead of just leaving it at that. For example, when he tried to convince us to stay away from the throne, Jon exploded in rage because Ned was essentially pressuring him. Jon didn't even sound truly interested in claiming it before. It was because Ned was pressuring him that he was angered.

If Ned tries to pressure Jon into something else this time, it may end up worse than before because Jon is even more aggressive compared to before. Yeah. So we should be careful as to how to approach Ned. An approach that makes Ned understand just how much shit Jon is in would be the best.

We'll have to agree to disagree on the pressuring part. I didn't at all get the impression that that was unfair of him or poorly phrased.

I'll respects anyone's concerns over what another character may attempt to manipulate Jon into something though, whether I believe them likely or not.
 
When did I say that? I said that using Greybeards meditation to supress our nature until we find a definite way to deal with things would be productive.
That sounds like bottling your problems somewhere to me.

Right. From these examples, you can see that the effects Dovah soul has on a being depends on the said being and the situation it's in. What I essentially tried to say was: Dovah side is dangerous and should be treated with extreme care. You are simplfying it by saying that it's ''destruction and domination''. It also cannot be leashed or unleashed at command like an attack dog. It is a very big part of your being, one that shapes your entire character whether you like it or not.
And I never said it wasn't dangerous, just that the human side must influence the Dovah side and viceversa in order to have balance otherwise you end up "corrupted" like your examples (the human ones at least). And you have to do it for your whole life because the chance to slip is always there.

If so, I'm really, really disappointed to hear that. Any kind of 'nope, you're a Dovahkiin, so acting like that is a straight up -10 penalty' approach is aggravating in the extreme.
In-universe it would be against Jon's nature, look at the Confrontational trait.
Mechanically all those perks we gained through dreams should have an offset right?
 
Fuck it, bottling our problems is the best thing to do right now until we can DEAL with them permamently. Fuck. I just thought we just kill him and that be that.

I fucking hate dayne for what he did to jon.
 
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I think what we really need is for Jon to break down in front of Ned, cry, scream, rage and generally be a young teenager and get all that stuff out in the open while Ned stoically listens and then actually helps him. Because that's Ned and he's still Jon's father, no matter the blood.

In my opinion, that's where people keep going wrong. This is not canon. Eddard is not Jon's father in anything like the same way he was there. I believe that Jon left Winterfell when he was five years old, and Eddard was away fighting the Ironborn for a year before that.

They don't really know each other very well, or have that much reason to be emotionally close. They just weren't around each other that much when Jon was old enough for them to really interact on that level.
 
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We'll have to agree to disagree on the pressuring part. I didn't at all get the impression that that was unfair of him or poorly phrased.

I'll respects anyone's concerns over what another character may attempt to manipulate Jon into something though, whether I believe them likely or not.

"I have a claim," you offer half-heartedly "My father's blood-"

Just from this Ned goes to this:

"Is fell blood Jon. As it stands, you are known far and wide as my son, as my blood. The Targaryens are a spent force, without home nor armies nor friends. Their last king a madman, their last prince a rapist, their heirs beggar across the sea. No Great House, no army will rise for a bastard dragonseed, no matter what pretensions Dayne clings to."

You refuse to look at him.

"Jon," he says again more harshly, with more iron in his voice "Promise me. Promise me you will not try to claim the throne, claim King's Landing. It is nothing but a viper's pit and the death of any Stark who enters it."

And Jon goes this:

"But I'm not a Stark, am I?" you retort angrily, tired of his pressing, his words "I'm a Stormcrown and before that a Snow. I'm not even your son anymore!"

Yeah. It wasn't necessarily a bad thing but from the moment Ned heard the word ''claim'', he assumed the goddamn worse and pressured Jon to take the opposite path, at least hoping to delay it as much as he could. He didn't even think that Jon wasn't interested in the throne, which he isn't, and gone straigth into an argument that angered Jon.

That sounds like bottling your problems somewhere to me.


And I never said it wasn't dangerous, just that the human side must influence the Dovah side and viceversa in order to have balance otherwise you end up "corrupted" like your examples (the human ones at least). And you have to do it for your whole life because the chance to slip is always there.

Not corrupted. Tiber Septim did good for himself and the Tamriel for the most part. It's just that a lot of people had to suffer for it. We cannot know what the best path for Jon to follow would be without trying it first. For all we know, slaughtering our way through like Wulfharth or pulling a Tiber Septim and becoming a master plotter, playing with everyone in Westeros like puppets would be the best. And supressing your ''problems'' until you find a definite way to solve them isn't a bad thing. It would actually keep the said problems from fucking us over before we find a way.
 


I'm not sure if that's Ned condemning Jaime, or calling him out (or trying to, and poorly) for perceived hypocrisy in trying to commiserate with him over how horrible it was.

I'd lean slightly towards the latter, but it's open-ended enough that I won't argue the point. If it is the former, Ned certainly can't seem to make his mind up on why he hates Jaime.

Just from this Ned goes to this:

And Jon goes this:

Yeah. It wasn't necessarily a bad thing but from the moment Ned heard the word ''claim'', he assumed the goddamn worse and pressured Jon to take the opposite path, at least hoping to delay it as much as he could. He didn't even think that Jon wasn't interested in the throne, which he isn't, and gone straigth into an argument that angered Jon.

My point is that none of that can be definitely seen as 'pressuring'. At least, with any kind of negative connotation. If something is justifiable, at the extreme you can say that asking (repeatedly) for someone to pass the butter is 'pressuring'.
 
That's where people keep going wrong. This is not canon. Eddard is not Jon's father in anything like the same way he was there. I believe that Jon left Winterfell when he was five years old, and Eddard was away fighting the Ironborn for a year before that.

They don't really know each other very well, or have that much reason to be emotionally close. They just weren't around each other that much when Jon was old enough for them to really interact on that level.
They are still close or Jon wouldn't have revealed the Thu'um to him.

I fucking hate dayne for what he did to jon.
To be fair that was Jon's own reactions to Dayne's betrayal, he didn't plot to turn him in this way.

Not corrupted. Tiber Septim did good for himself and the Tamriel for the most part. It's just that a lot of people had to suffer for it. We cannot know what the best path for Jon to follow would be without trying it first. For all we know, slaughtering our way through like Wulfharth or pulling a Tiber Septim and becoming a master plotter, playing with everyone in Westeros like puppets would be the best.
I used quotation marks because corrupted I couldn't find an appropriate term, sorry. :oops:

And supressing your ''problems'' until you find a definite way to solve them isn't a bad thing. It would actually keep the said problems from fucking us over before we find a way.
Wait, are you referring to Jon's bitterness or to the problems derivated from his Dragonborn's soul?
Because I was referring to the latter.
 
I propose to avoid fights until we deal with this angry issue.

Jon bitterness is magnified by the dragonborn soul. We can deal with this. FUCK going to this tournament. If only we allow Albar to fight, we could have avoided this.
 
In my opinion, that's where people keep going wrong. This is not canon. Eddard is not Jon's father in anything like the same way he was there. I believe that Jon left Winterfell when he was five years old, and Eddard was away fighting the Ironborn for a year before that.

They don't really know each other very well, or have that much reason to be emotionally close. They just weren't around each other that much when Jon was old enough for them to really interact on that level.

No, that would have been Brynden, if he had lived. But he's dead. And the closest Jon will ever get to having a father is Ned. Ned is also the only one with whom we can be completely honest and he loves us enough to think of our well-being. They can get emotionally close again and already have the best foundations to do so. Who else do we have that qualifies? Nobody. Only Ned is the one adult that fits the role and who could possibly help. Other kids Jon's age won't know how to help him - they're kids - and all other adults will see Jon as an adult and as someone to be exploited.

Face it, we have too many skeletons in our closet to go to anyone else. It's Ned or the Old Gods - preferably both.
 
They are still close or Jon wouldn't have revealed the Thu'um to him.

That was our vote, I believe. We also told him before we left Winterfell, many years ago, when Eddard was the only thing like a parent Jon had ever known. Just because they were close now doesn't mean that now, when Jon is getting on for three times as old, things haven't changed.

Jon bitterness is magnified by the dragonborn soul. We can deal with this. FUCK going to this tournament. If only we allow Albar to fight, we could have avoided this.

What do think Jon's reaction would have been if Turner killed Albar?
 
Wait, are you referring to Jon's bitterness or to the problems derivated from his Dragonborn's soul?
Because I was referring to the latter.

Right. Problems derivated from the Dragonborn soul... Dovah soul, dragon's soul would be a better term. Anyway, Greybeards way is created for dealing with shit like this. Paarthurnax uses it and was going to try to get the remaining Dov accept it. It should actually allow us to supress Dovah soul's bad side-effects without much problem. However, I am not sure whether the effects would be the same with us or how much time it would take for the meditations to be effective enough.

My point is that none of that can be definitely seen as 'pressuring'. At least, with any kind of negative connotation. If something is justifiable, at the extreme you can say that asking (repeatedly) for someone to pass the butter is 'pressuring'.

Not from our perspective. But from Jon's perspective, Ned was trying to make him do something while he wasn't in the position to do so. It wasn't like Ned was his lord or he was a member of Stark family(officially).(This is from Jon's perspective, not mine)

Also I think he had the ''Confrontational'' trait then so when things escalated, Jon wasn't willing to back down even if only for his pride. What I fear is that, since Jon's personality is much worse compared to that time, Jon may react for much less.
 
No, that would have been Brynden, if he had lived. But he's dead. And the closest Jon will ever get to having a father is Ned. Ned is also the only one with whom we can be completely honest and he loves us enough to think of our well-being.

I don't believe we can trust him that much, he's too focused on trying to control our actions rather than guide our development. The oath he forced us to swear on pain of exile demonstrated that. When the chips are down, Jon comes second behind his other priorities.

I think, to Eddard, in many ways Jon is still the five year old that left Winterfell all those years ago as much as the hardened knight as he is today, and that influences how he deals with him.

They can get emotionally close again and already have the best foundations to do so. Who else do we have that qualifies? Nobody. Only Ned is the one adult that fits the role and who could possibly help. Other kids Jon's age won't know how to help him - they're kids - and all other adults will see Jon as an adult and as someone to be exploited.

I don't believe they can get emotionally close again. Jon's too old and too jaded for it to be easy or quick, and he's also got to much to do now he's taken on so many responsibilities in the Riverlands.

I think finding some actual friends and peers is what we need to do here. Jon doesn't need to find another mentor here, he needs a social context that is less unhealthy than a bunch of savage killers. That might be something we can do in Harrenhal, if we can focus on constructing and building the place up rather than killing things. Turning our Dragonborn instincts in a positive direction seems better than trying to fight them.

Face it, we have too many skeletons in our closet to go to anyone else. It's Ned or the Old Gods - preferably both.

The Old Gods at least don't answer back, although who knows what is actually looking through the Weirwood's eyes...
 
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On the bright side, this makes assassinations against us much less likely. After all, we basically just beat a trained and armed knight to death with our bare hands.

This is probably doubly so with peasants, since knights are seen as incredibly dangerous horse riding juggernaut's during wars.

So, we'll probably not have to deal with peasants trying to kill us in Harrengall.
 
Right. Problems derivated from the Dragonborn soul... Dovah soul, dragon's soul would be a better term. Anyway, Greybeards way is created for dealing with shit like this. Paarthurnax uses it and was going to try to get the remaining Dov accept it. It should actually allow us to supress Dovah soul's bad side-effects without much problem. However, I am not sure whether the effects would be the same with us or how much time it would take for the meditations to be effective enough.



Not from our perspective. But from Jon's perspective, Ned was trying to make him do something while he wasn't in the position to do so. It wasn't like Ned was his lord or he was a member of Stark family(officially).(This is from Jon's perspective, not mine)

Also I think he had the ''Confrontational'' trait then so when things escalated, Jon wasn't willing to back down even if only for his pride. What I fear is that, since Jon's personality is much worse compared to that time, Jon may react for much less.

You know, I don't think Jon will be that unhappy with Ned. After all, it is due to his advice that Jon didn't go foolishly charging after the Iron Throne. Ned, in the end, was right and the oath that Jon swore was one of the reasons that Dayne's crimes were uncovered.

I don't believe we can trust him that much. The oath he forced us to swear on pain of exile demonstrated that. When the chips are down, Jon comes second behind his other priorities.



I don't believe they can get emotionally close again. Jon's too old and too jaded for it to be easier, and he's also got to much to do now he's taken on so many responsibilities in the Riverlands.

I think finding some actual friends and peers is what we need to do here. Jon doesn't need to find another mentor here, he needs a social context that is less unhealthy than a bunch of savage killers. That might be something we can do in Harrenhal, if we can focus on constructing and building the place up rather than killing things. Turning our Dragonborn instincts in a positive direction seems better than trying to fight them.



The Old Gods at least don't answer back, although who knows what is actually looking through the Weirwood's eyes...

If you can't trust Ned, who can you trust in this setting? Ned's like the only trustworthy person in the whole ASOIAF world. And do you really think that Ned forcing Jon to take the oath was not so much for Robert but for the benefit of Jon himself? You must remember that in Ned's eyes Jon is not the protagonist with a destiny, but the son of his sister, still a child without an army to take the Iron Throne by force and without a heritage that would make it possible for him to take the throne by politics or marriage (and if he said that he's a Targ, then there would have been war). If the boy you love as a son wants to do something completely stupid like conquering a stable kingdom without an army and alliances, all due to the advice of a knight who sat and did nothing while your sister was being raped, then you do everything you can to prevent the boy from killing himself.

Yes, thank you Ned for preventing a boy who isn't even fully grown from doing something rash. That's like being a responsible parent or something!
 
Omake 007: A Tale of Wolves
Omake 007: A Tale of Wolves
The Stag, The Falcon, The Wolf

"So he killed him, did he?" said Robert drunkenly, as Jon Arryn sighed. The news of his natural daughter's death had struck him harder than one would have thought, as he retreated into his cups once more. Only Jon Arryn did he allow in his presence, his disgust extending to even his Kingsguard and brother Renly.

"Yes," the Hand of the King responded, as he had before "Beat him to death with his own hands, in full view of my bannerman. When Lord Redfort asked for a quick death, he reluctantly obliged."

Reluctantly wasn't the word for it. Where had such anger and rage come from? Brynden's letters had never spoke thus of him.. though perhaps that was where it started. A loss of a mentor, Ungren's death at another's hands... Mya's was merely yet another in a line of problems for Ned's boy.

"He's got Brandon's passion," said Robert to himself "I saw him in a tavern brawl or two back then, he'd fight much the same... He'd have the same anger in him..."

"Your Grace?"

"Jon... the boy's too old," realizes the drunkard king aloud "You saw him yourself in the Vale. Did that look like a boy of thirteen years to you?"

"No," allowed the Lord of the Eyrie hesitantly "But it is not uncommon. The Cleganes for example are unnatural in size, and the boy is a bastard born after all. It is common wisdom."

"Common wisdom from a septon's mouth," says Robert contemptuously "They don't even father children!"

"Robert, you were saying?"

"He's ... he's too old," he explained again "Too old to be Ned's from the war. But not Brandon's."

"You think Jon Stormcrown is Brandon Stark's bastard? Robert..."

"Think about it, damn you!" protested the king "Who was more likely to slip his cock in a woman outside a marriage, Brandon or Ned? Who already had a marriage readied for them by Lord Rickard with House Tully? Brandon!"

"And who is the mother, then? Ned never spoke of her..."

"Ashara Dayne," confided Robert gleefully "She killed herself when Ned went to Starfall with Dawn. I thought it was over the Tully marriage taking him away from her, but what if she had given Brandon a son? A son Ned took from her! He couldn't leave his nephew in Dornish hands, could he? Not after King's Landing!"

"And so Ned takes the boy back with him, and brings the shame upon himself rather than Brandon?"

"Have you ever known Eddard Stark to speak ill of the dead?" the Baratheon king pressed "Have you ever known him to slight family? Do you think Catelyn Tully would have accepted the shame of her betrothed's bastard in her household, nephew to her current husband and cousin to her children? No, imagine the scandal. It'd have ruined relations between Houses Stark and Tully, broken the alliance even. Better Ned's bastard than Brandon."

"You speak some logic," Jon Arryn reluctantly allows "It could be possible-"

"Possible? It's the damn truth! And Ned hid it, for so many years..." at that Robert suddenly sulked "He didn't even tell me!"

"Speaking of sons, Robert... I was hoping to speak to you of Joffrey."

"Eh? What about the boy? He's not caused any trouble, has he?"

Besides having some hand in your daughter's death? No, I don't think you need to know that.

"No, not at all. But I do believe that it be for the best that he experience something of the Seven Kingdoms beyond the capital. I was hoping you would consider fostering him, as you were with me."

"You think my beloved wife would consider it?" said Robert bitingly as he took a swig of his goblet "Who would we even send him to? She wouldn't accept Ned, and Joffrey's not got the strength to face the North. House Tully has a gaggle of heirs already, but Joffrey's petty cruelty would only cause strife. My grandfather in the Stormlands perhaps..."

"I was thinking of his grandfather," Jon Arryn confides "I have written to him occasionally regarding the development of his grandchildren, and if there is a man in the Seven Kingdoms who your wife will not reject out of hand, it would be him."

"Wouldn't hurt to trade him for another loan," the king muses in agreement "The coffers are running empty again from what you've told me."

"Your generosity has its costs, Robert. But I would rather we have some of the older loans forgiven first."

"Bugger generosity, Jon. I spend to entertain myself. Entertaining others merely makes it more acceptable."

"Yes, well... . He could take a stern hand with Joffrey's education, and teach him to rule well."

"Gods know I won't be doing either of those two," muttered his fosterling with an nod "So be it, then. Make the arrangements with Tywin, have him send an honour guard. Pick one of the Kingsguard to accompany him west, and send some of those lordlings we've got filling my court as squires and pages with him."

"As Your Grace commands."

The Lion's Den

He'd been distant for weeks. Throwing himself into training with Ser Aron Santagar, barely spending time in the presence of his father or siblings, almost always badgering her brother Jaime for help with his swordsmanship...

It was gratifying, to see them build something of a bond. Jaime's relationship with their children was something of a misnomer, but to share something with their eldest could only help that. But when Jaime came to her, and spoke of sordid deeds and bandits in the Vale, she knew she had to learn what she could on her own.

And so there she was, her and her son, and Jaime as watch and guardian.

"He didn't do it," confessed Joffrey suddenly "He... I..."

"Tell me, sweet thing."

"Father spoke of her before," admitted Joffrey "At Storm's End. When he came to King's Landing, I asked about her. Devan told me what he could... and I made arrangements."

At that, her heart stopped.

That her son would cleanse that slight upon her honour, that taint and challenge to her children... it was pleasing, if not even admirable. But recognized or not, legitimized or not... Mya Stone was still in some loose part recognizable as a member of the royal family. Loosely, she could even be called half-sister to Joffrey.

Accursed is the kinslayer...

"Who did you speak with, Joffrey? Who helped you?"

He mumbled the answer to here, and a sigh of relief came out. The man would not speak of this, she knew. Not when Robert would have his head or worse for his part in the matter. But she would have to carry that across to him most effectively. Perhaps later with Jaime...

"What possessed you to such risks?" Cersei said as she gently ruffled her son's hair "Your father has such a temper..."

"To punish him," Joffrey said half-choked "For what he said. For what he did, for that bastard."

"Bastard..."

"Stormcrown?" interrupted Jaime suddenly "You're talking about Ned Stark's bastard? Joffrey..."

"A proud name," Cersei allowed reluctantly "To honour the king who knighted him."

"Not his king," insisted her son as he looked at her with hatred in his eyes "His father."

At that, Cersei almost laughed. Had this been what had brought her darling boy's attention onto the northern mongrel?

"Joffrey, he is Lord Stark's bastard-"

"He's a Stark bastard," insisted the crown prince as he got more upset "He looks like a Stark, like I look like you. But we're both father's sons. And everyone says he's only thirteen, but he doesn't look it."

"Well yes, but-"

"And Lord Stark probably hid him because of you and grandfather! You wouldn't have let him bring a bastard here, would you?"

"No, sweet thing..."

Even now, her lip curled at the thought of that bastard Robert had fathered in the Vale. He'd tried to bring her to court. He'd only stopped at her threats, forgotten about her until the Stormcrown boy came to Storm's End. And then he'd brought it up again...

Could it be? Robert... and Lyanna Stark?

Quickly, she thought back. Rhaegar Targaryen had taken Lyanna Stark in the Riverlands, travelling as she had been between the Tullys and the Arryns and other friends of House Stark. There was time enough for it, enough to conceal the bastard's age through childhood. By all accounts, it was into his second decade that the differences became clear enough, that he looked older than his supposed age. A septon's wisdom would have it called a mark of bastardy, but here was the simpler answer.

He was Robert's son. A son through his beloved Lyanna Stark, a nephew of Eddard Stark of Winterfell, one hidden by him for fear of Lannister reprisal, as was visited on Houses Targaryen and Martell.

The name alone lent credence. Stormcrown, for the Stormlander king. A name much like Blackfyre, like the sword Aegon the Unworthy had gifted to his own bastard.

A sword now in the hands of Robert's own bastard.

A bastard whose ties and friendships counted three of the Great Lords.

A bastard who had claimed Harrenhal, a seat for kings.

She looked to her brother, to her love.

"Jaime..."

A Brother's Stand

Lord Hoster Tully of Riverrun sighed.

It was not the first time he had done so in the last half hour, as he tried to parse through some of the events that had transpired with the boys.

Word had come from the Vale as to the Tourney of Redfort, by raven, and later by way of singers and bards eager to share tales for a seat at the table.

Word of Jon Stormcrown, his heir's bastard brother.

On the one hand, he had not been overly surprised. Butchery as that was to be expected from one born in wedlock as he was, albeit in vengeance for a murdered friend. It was understandable, and no doubt there would be those in the North who would give their approval. It even served his purposes in some sense, to have a mad dog on leash. If Tywin Lannister had Gregor Clegane... did he not have Jon Stormcrown?

What a confrontation that could be...

On the other hand, word had made its way to Bran, to his fosterlings. And there, trouble had arisen. The Bracken boy had made some foul comment as to Jon's nature, which saw Bran leap to his defense. An argument had ensued between the boys, with the Blackwood sons watching, an argument that had turned into a fight. Bran's nose was broken, and the Bracken boy had a bad bite wound and some bruises as the Blackwoods jumped in.

And now, here they were, all in front of him after a maester's attendance.

"Brandon," Hoster spoke as he looked upon his grandson "You will apologize for striking first. Understandable it might be to defend Jon, it is not acceptable for you to strike a guest of this house."

"But-"

"You will apologize."

"I'm sorry," mumbled the Stark-born Tully to the older Bracken boy "Sorry for biting you."

The Bracken boy briefly looked pleased, before Hoster turned his attention upon him and the Blackwoods.

"And you three are to apologize to one another. To shake hands and ask to start anew. However old your feud might be, you are guests in my home. You are here, representing yourselves as the best of your families. Since when did House Bracken ever have claim to strike at a Tully? Since when was House Blackwood known for rash action and not calm thought? What would your fathers think of this?"

Humiliated, the boys did as they were told as quickly as they could.

"You will also apologize to Bran, and ask his forgiveness. And then you will leave us."

They did that as well, with the Bracken boy muttering "good fight" underneath his breath before the trio fled, leaving Bran alone with his grandfather.

"What am I to make of this?" Hoster asked despairingly "Biting the boy.."

"He called Jon a monster," said the Tully heir from behind his mended nose "And he's bigger."

"Aye," said Hoster with a small laugh "He is bigger. But the Bracken boy may one day be Lord of Stone Hedge. Those Blackwoods one day might be knights in your service, Bran. You cannot do as you have done here today, and expect friendship and loyalty."

"But-"

"You stood up for yourself and for Jon," interrupted the Lord of Riverrun "And that is right. That is true. Family, Duty, Honour, you have kept the words close and I am proud of you for that, Bran. But anger has its place, and so does restraint."

"Is Jon a monster?" asked Bran quietly "He's not, is he? What they said..."

"What he is," Hoster says kindly "Is your brother. He may upset you or you may upset him, but he will always be your brother. He will be your shield as Robb will be your sword. They will stand for you, and you for them. Do not doubt that. And when he comes to visit again, you will see that. You will see your brother, and nothing else."
 
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