2019/2020 Community Council Nomination Discussions

I guess this is a question for everyone, veteran or new, already nominated or in the future, that I want to ask. Nobody has to answer, but I think it would be helpful to at least me to gauge your positions on things important to me.

As a lot of you probably know there was recently a scandal involving a contentious ~100-person private conservative message thread that exploded on Spacebattles forums when someone's sock puppet exposed the more controversial racist, sexist, and ideologically radical posts hiding within it. The fallout may have resulted in an influx of fresh users to this forum (like me for example).

I'm curious to know, had you been in a moderating or administrative position over there, how you would have dealt with that situation. And please no "if I was there it never would have happened in the first place" because I want to see your reactions to crisis, not your ideas to prevent them.

I hope this is not stepping over some line and will redact any of this if it's counterproductive here.

As far as I can tell, the SB moderators actually did a remarkably good job handing both the PR crisis and the actual "aaa some of us are evil" crisis. Potential internal division in a modteam is one of the hardest situations to deal with, and is almost always a dramabomb; the fact that they turfed the culprits promptly after a reasonable investigative delay, rather than giving in to witchhunting, visibly imploding, or letting people off with wrist-slaps, says they did their job right. I further applaud the decision to resign by a few of the mods responsible for letting the clusterfuck develop in the first place; it's classy and good governance.

I can't speak to more than that without having access to the actual internal moderation channels to get a sense of the internal politics involved, but the impression I get from a distance is of a polished team working together and doing their damn jobs. This probably wasn't the reality on the ground, but I can't gainsay it, and therefore I can only afford them full marks for a remarkable feat of moderation. I hope to do as well as they did if ever I should end up facing a similar catastrophe.
 
Oof. Alright, getting off my butt and onto my laptop so I can answer these with actual depth instead of mobile posts.

1. Young Quest Champions is my inspiration here, but it was (and is) both too narrow and too broad in scope. The people over there are amazing, and go through all the quests that pop up to sort and recommend them. That leads to burnout though, and by no means do I want to suggest something that makes staff lives harder. Going through every quest by hand is simply not feasible, and that's where I think they were too broad. Ideally, I'd like a feature that makes threads with 20 or less pages in User Fiction & Quests stick out to the eye, and I'd like a searchable tag in Roleplaying to find games which are still open and looking for players.

We just went through the update though, so Xon will probably be busy for quite a while. As such, other things could be done. More staff support for Young Quest Champions would be the easiest. A User Fiction version of it could be made as well. Roleplays... yeah I don't have much for Roleplays besides the hugely helpful Open and Closed tags.

As to fixing the problems of respect and timidity in general, that just takes time and interactions. We need to, over and over, show new members that their opinions matter and that they have a place here. Whether this be through events, promotion of newer staff, or something else I don't know, but above all interaction is the key.

2. I have mixed feelings on the grit and bones of forum moderation. On one hand, SV is by far the warmest and openest site that I'm on - which is due almost entirely to it's moderation. The mods are doing something right, at the very least. On the other hand, I got my start on forums through ASoIaF and Alt-History quests - things with a reputation for getting hit hard. A few of the first friends I made on the site are now banned from SV, some for reasons I don't agree with.

Because the mod team defaults to harshness, unnecessarily long punishments are semi-frequent. We either need to tone down the hastiness of punishments, or tone down the severity of them. Of the two, hastiness is by far the better option. With proper deliberation done by a diverse group, I feel like we can continue to keep the feeling of safety and warmth this side fosters whilst also providing everyone with the justice they deserve.

4. There was a time last year where I had to take a break from pretty much everything, but I still kept up my duties as mod, and that's part of what let me pull myself back in. I felt burnt out, but I also felt a sense of obligation - something I continue to feel to this day. Duties and jobs are very important to me, and so it's hard for me to get burnt out by them.

1: How do you intend to give Young Quest Champions more staff support without making the staff's lives harder in the process? Do you have any ideas for how to promote interaction between the staff and the users?

2: You said earlier that new users want immediate, harsh punishment for poor behaviour. However, now you seem to be saying that the veterans in the moderation staff are the source of these harsh, hasty verdicts. Which is it, or is it both?

4: Why should I in good conscience nominate someone who is unable to manage their own workload and pre-emptively guard against burnout? Frankly, I'm now worried that you'll end up doing yourself an injury if you're elected, simply because you'll prioritize your obligation over your own health and safety.
 
I do not believe that @Maelvona is capable of serving on the Community Council for several reasons. I consider those reasons severe enough to comment publicly.

Maelvona has a history of essentially being a likable, friendly community member in GSRPs and Discord servers before exploding at other people with sharp invective, burning bridges and ultimately leaving servers. Multiple people can attest to having witnessed this such as @TenfoldShields; I have asked several other people who are welcome to corroborate this.

These incidents, while deeply unpleasant, would not be enough to get me to make a post about a nominee's capacity to perform on the Council. What tipped me over the edge is an interaction we had in March of this year, where she (going under the Discord handle "Angel") described a relationship that people told her exhibited all the qualities of being severely unhealthy. When this was pointed out to her she elaborated at length, in flourishing prose, about the beauty of unrequited love's suffering and how codependent relationships can "be worth it".

This was profoundly disturbing, and I tried to argue with her against it. Eventually it got to the point where I - a Discord mod on that server - told her to stop, or else I would ban her. She admitted she was "trolling" - her words, though as she deleted her posts I can't produce them - and apologized earnestly, deleting the majority of her posts on the matter. I thought it was over.

Then, as is visible in the photos below, she DM'd me on Discord asking for an apology. I didn't give her one.

At 9:00 PM my time she posted a wall of multi-paragraph invective directed at me specifically. I remember specifically one paragraph of many beginning with "What a disgusting person;" this was one of the nicer judgements made about me. (See my messages in the second picture at the bottom of this post: "The topic is since moved on, I have to note." and "Bye." The rant was located there.)"

She ended the rant saying "fuck you all, I'm leaving this server now". I banned her about ten seconds after she posted it, and then promptly kicked her from the server. I deleted the post because it made me feel immensely uncomfortable. It ruined my night and made me cry.

Obviously we all have bad nights and sometimes act badly, doing things we didn't mean, or regret immensely. I don't know Maelvona. I don't know her struggles, or her life. I'm not here to tell you she's a bad person because I don't think that. I don't want anyone to read this post and go "God, what a bad person." That's not appropriate for SV and it's not what I'm trying to do here.

What I'm trying to do is share why I believe - from what multiple people have told me, whose words I trust - that she is the kind of person who regularly cuts ties abruptly and painfully, and is ultimately not someone that is fit to serve on the Council.

Here's my screencaps. I can only produce sources related to the incident that I was involved in at this time, but I invite other people to corroborate what I say here, if they can or want to.

Feel free to doubt or disbelieve me for lack of 'concrete proof'. I get that and I don't begrudge you it.

In conclusion, all I ask is that if you're reading this, you recognize that I served this community for two years. I demonstrably, by the only metric that is ironclad, care enough about my community to devote myself to it. I wouldn't make this post if I didn't think it was absolutely necessary. I definitely did not enjoy writing it and my night would be so much better if I had just pretended nothing happened at all instead of wading through triggering material that makes me miserable.



I dislike call out posts and think sharing PMs of your conversations with other members is bad form. I believe those are bad norms and thus refuse to act on the information contained therein lest I legitimise them.
 
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The tanuki once advocated that.

But it was downvoated and said to have gone mad.
Just give them a justification!
"Those mild mannered, decent people were clearly plotting behind my back. You dare suggest otherwise?! Meet the banhammer!"
 
I dislike call out posts and think sharing PMs of your conversations with other members is bad form. I believe those are bad norms and thus refuse to act on the information contained therein lest I legitimise them.

Under what circumstances, then, is it acceptable to bring to light the personal character flaws of a political candidate?
 
I dislike callout posts and think sharing PMs of your conversations with other members is bad form.
Your feelings don't take point here as Councillors have access to sensitive information and as of this upcoming term, increased powers, so public confidence is absolutely a relevant issue.

You were also griping about corruption and staff overreach publicly earlier. Your sudden willingness to relax standards is concerning.
 
Sup everyone, I'm Pawn Lelouch and I'm hoping I can be one of your next councilors.

You might know me from my work in the mafia community in terms of making, balance checking, and playing in games? In fact, I am the other representative from the trinity to be currently representing our mafia communities on the world stage (btw also vote @Evenstar, she's great). To have made it this far I have to be doing something right in regards to my analytical thinking skills, as well as being able to stay calm and explain situations to other people.

If I end up being elected I swear to be engaged in all of the appeals where I can be and will judge the situations on their own merits, while trying to not let my biases influence me (Let's be real, anyone who says they don't have any biases, for or against most topics are either naive or lying).

I'll be willing to answer in thread any and all questions on my views and in regards to what people want in a candidate, and if I embody it or not.

Also, I fully endorse a cat empire taking over and controlling the site. It sounds like the solution to the vast majority of our problems. I'm sure @Hykal94 agrees with me.
 
I must confess that I had no intention of putting myself forward for a community council position this year, or ever for that matter. In its prior state the council primarily had acted to provide input on the appeals process, and while that service is important, I did not believe that my specific participation on such would be better than any other potential candidate. I've read most of the public tribunals of the past few years, and while the process interested me, I couldn't say that I believed there was a significant failing in the council that would motivate me to attempt to attempt to induce myself in the process.

With the changes to the council this year, it seems like it might become a more robust body, with greater input and ability to support "constituents." This has influenced me, as well as other members of the GSRP community, to take a greater interest in this year's council election. Several candidates from there have already put forward their names as nominees, and I wish them the best.

I do not put forward my name on a platform of supporting the GSRP community, though I would if elected, but rather the primary platform I wish to center my nomination on is anti-pornography. @Evenstar has made it a central tenet of her platform to encourage smut on SV. I believe this would be detrimental to the overall atmosphere and quality of SV to support pornography on its platform. As Evenstar has already amassed a number of supporters in the nomination thread, it can be surmised that there are many SV users who support her pro-smut views. While this is their opinion and they are free to it, I postulate that many other members of SV, such as myself, do not support the proliferation of pornography on this site. I thus put myself forward as a potential representative of this group.

In terms of what practical effects this would lead to if I were elected to the council, I would put an active voice against the expansion and entrenchment of pornography on SV. My election alone I think would accomplish much towards this goal, by showing that there is a substantial body of SV users who are opposed to increased pornography on this site.

To be clear here, this is not an attack on Evenstar, or anyone who agrees with her on the matter of pornography. I do not know her, and have nothing in the slightest against her. I simply disagree that a desirable direction for SV to take would be make it a more friendly environment for the creation and proliferation of pornography. Strongly enough that I am nominating myself as a council member on that as my primary platform.

Though I am running primarily upon this single issue, if elected I would fulfill all duties as a council member to the best of my abilities. I have always been a firm believer in the fair and equitable enforcement of law and order, and I would bring this fully to the appeals process, which in some cases might lead to an argument for clemency, but in others it might not.
 
I nominated a bunch of folks because they're awesome.

I nominated myself because I'm an idiot.
 
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I must confess that I had no intention of putting myself forward for a community council position this year, or ever for that matter. In its prior state the council primarily had acted to provide input on the appeals process, and while that service is important, I did not believe that my specific participation on such would be better than any other potential candidate. I've read most of the public tribunals of the past few years, and while the process interested me, I couldn't say that I believed there was a significant failing in the council that would motivate me to attempt to attempt to induce myself in the process.

With the changes to the council this year, it seems like it might become a more robust body, with greater input and ability to support "constituents." This has influenced me, as well as other members of the GSRP community, to take a greater interest in this year's council election. Several candidates from there have already put forward their names as nominees, and I wish them the best.

I do not put forward my name on a platform of supporting the GSRP community, though I would if elected, but rather the primary platform I wish to center my nomination on is anti-pornography. @Evenstar has made it a central tenet of her platform to encourage smut on SV. I believe this would be detrimental to the overall atmosphere and quality of SV to support pornography on its platform. As Evenstar has already amassed a number of supporters in the nomination thread, it can be surmised that there are many SV users who support her pro-smut views. While this is their opinion and they are free to it, I postulate that many other members of SV, such as myself, do not support the proliferation of pornography on this site. I thus put myself forward as a potential representative of this group.

In terms of what practical effects this would lead to if I were elected to the council, I would put an active voice against the expansion and entrenchment of pornography on SV. My election alone I think would accomplish much towards this goal, by showing that there is a substantial body of SV users who are opposed to increased pornography on this site.

To be clear here, this is not an attack on Evenstar, or anyone who agrees with her on the matter of pornography. I do not know her, and have nothing in the slightest against her. I simply disagree that a desirable direction for SV to take would be make it a more friendly environment for the creation and proliferation of pornography. Strongly enough that I am nominating myself as a council member on that as my primary platform.

Though I am running primarily upon this single issue, if elected I would fulfill all duties as a council member to the best of my abilities. I have always been a firm believer in the fair and equitable enforcement of law and order, and I would bring this fully to the appeals process, which in some cases might lead to an argument for clemency, but in others it might not.

I would very much enjoy debating this matter with you! Your framing is excellent, your deportment sincere.

Do you simply have a personal dislike of works with explicit sexual content, and straightforwardly intend to represent that demographic, or do you mean to argue that erotica is an active negative influence on the site as a whole?
 
So after many years of using this site. I've decided that I would very much like to contribute back to this website as a councilor.

Now let me be real here. Sufficient Velocity is one of the few places on the internet where people from all parts of LGTBQ+ can feel comfortable being in. To be frank, most of the internet is infested with hateful dipshits that do there damnedest to make anyone I listed above feel uncomfortable and unwanted. I consider it an great achievement to finally have a place where I can actually talk openly about these things. Without multiple hateful assholes spilling out of the cabinets to try and make me and my fellows miserable. There were times I could of had said the same for other websites. But eventually each and everyone of them slowly fell to the poison of toxicity.

My main goal as a possible councilor is to make sure that this well of positivity and acceptance isn't poisoned overtime. To many damn websites have fallen to this hate and I would very much like to keep SV from turning into a racist & homophobic shithole.

Even then, SV isn't perfect. In some areas it still very much needs to improve it's acceptance and interactions with people from all parts of LGBTQ+. And I fully intend to push this website to better embrace these things.

Beyond that, here are other key points:

2. More user community events need to encouraged and actively advertised. For example, a user can hold a large writing contest and the admins and staff can actively help them reach out with site banners and such. Quite similar to that isekai writing contest that was held a while ago.
3. There needs to be more staff overall and I want to encourage them to further recruit.

(Reposting from the other thread)
 
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Sup everyone, I'm Pawn Lelouch and I'm hoping I can be one of your next councilors.

You might know me from my work in the mafia community in terms of making, balance checking, and playing in games? In fact, I am the other representative from the trinity to be currently representing our mafia communities on the world stage (btw also vote Evenstar, she's great). To have made it this far I have to be doing something right in regards to my analytical thinking skills, as well as being able to stay calm and explain situations to other people.

If I end up being elected I swear to be engaged in all of the appeals where I can be and will judge the situations on their own merits, while trying to not let my biases influence me (Let's be real, anyone who says they don't have any biases, for or against most topics are either naive or lying).

I'll be willing to answer in thread any and all questions on my views and in regards to what people want in a candidate, and if I embody it or not.

Also, I fully endorse a cat empire taking over and controlling the site. It sounds like the solution to the vast majority of our problems. I'm sure Hykal94 agrees with me.

(Reposted this from the other thread)
 
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Your feelings don't take point here as Councillors have access to sensitive information and as of this upcoming term, increased powers, so public confidence is absolutely a relevant issue.
Yeah, that's honestly behavior I would not want in a colleague. Like if it looses me votes, I don't give a shit, harassing anyone or trying that sort of abhorrent and wholly unacceptable behavior does not belong on the council, the staff or in any position of confidence, and good on @mothematics for bringing it out into the open.
 
I think people kinda know what they're getting if they vote for me, at least if they've read older tribunals. (Short version: I won't tolerate people actively trying to mess up the site, or warp it into a platform for awful shit, but I otherwise trend towards leniency, especially for "disruptive" behavior that didn't disrupt anything.)

Whether or not I'm elected, I aim to get more involved in the creative forums, which I currently consider a weakness, as a candidate. (Kinda ironic since I was doing Quests before SV existed :V )

(I was just recently talking with an art quest community about how to put more art quests on SV. But that's kind of a long shot, to be honest.)
I guess this is a question for everyone, veteran or new, already nominated or in the future, that I want to ask. Nobody has to answer, but I think it would be helpful to at least me to gauge your positions on things important to me.

As a lot of you probably know there was recently a scandal involving a contentious ~100-person private conservative message thread that exploded on Spacebattles forums when someone's sock puppet exposed the more controversial racist, sexist, and ideologically radical posts hiding within it. The fallout may have resulted in an influx of fresh users to this forum (like me for example).

I'm curious to know, had you been in a moderating or administrative position over there, how you would have dealt with that situation. And please no "if I was there it never would have happened in the first place" because I want to see your reactions to crisis, not your ideas to prevent them.

I hope this is not stepping over some line and will redact any of this if it's counterproductive here.
If I were an admin who could act unilaterally, I'd have shitcanned Spartan303 years ago. It wasn't really a secret that he was covering for certain elements.

However, that's the easy answer, and I've never been an admin, or even a mod, so it might help to say how I'd approach it as a councillor, instead. (That is, if SB had a council)

Councillors can't see PMs (for obvious reasons), but they can see the part of the site where mods handle reports and discuss how to handle them. They can go into threads the mods are reviewing and see what's up. So, if relevant mods are discussing the situation in a way that seems out-of-wack with the actual situation, ignoring some egregious violations and coming down suspiciously hard on others, Councillors are in a much better position than regular users to catch on, and are then in a stronger position to do something about it.

They're also a form of recourse for users who feel the staff is treating them unfairly, both in the form of tribunals, and just being open to folks PMing them with problems they see. (Though I wish this part were better known :V )

Strictly speaking, the Council is advisory. But the administration is compelled to pay attention and care what the CC thinks, due to the legitimacy they've chosen to imbue it with. Since the CC is the official representatives of the userbase, they have de-facto authority to start a giant shitstorm if they lose all trust in the staff.

(Note that this only really works if a majority of the council recognizes staff malfeasance. That's both a good and bad thing. Good because internet elections often have silly outcomes, let's be honest, and bad because it means you need more than a few members willing to fight for what you want them to fight for.)
 
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Staff Notice - Rule 4: "Don't be Disruptive": Chopping someone's post into multiple short pieces with short replies makes discussion much harder to follow, since it removes context and flow.
I have an unremitting commitment to puncturing Squishy's ego at every turn.
This is very tempting tbh.
Also, vote for me and I will see to it that logiccosmic is sent to The Hague for his crimes.
What did they do?

Hey everyone, Lord Chungus here to explain why you should vote for me and a few other people but mainly me.

Firstly, the people I'm nominating:

The first person I'm nominating, and one of the easier choices, is @Redshirt Army. I've known him for about as long as I've been on SV. He's smart, reliable, and a great guy to hang out with. I mainly interacted with him on Discord and in PMAS, and unlike many others, he was never hostile, or rude, or condescending. The few times I crafted votes with him, it felt like we were working together, even when arguing against each other, and that's something I think is really valuable in a prospective Councillor.

My second nomination goes to @NothingNow. He's a returning Councillor, with wisdom and experience aplenty. His record in tribunals speaks for itself, and my interaction with him on SV and in the SV and CC AMA discords have only every been positive. Also I want him to post that cannibalism (or was it necrophilia?) essay; stop holding out on us!

My third nomination is going to @Hykal94, another returning Councillor. Much like @NothingNow, his record is incredible and he's only ever been helpful on the CC AMA. Ultimately, @Hykal94 is someone I trust to represent the userbase of SV, as shown by the fact that he's a walking cat meme. Then there's the matter of the blood pact we swore after slaying the three-headed hound of hell, which neither of use would ever break :V. (Forreal though I'm not mad or anything, don't worry about it :p)

My fourth nomination is pointed towards @BanTheFairyKing, who I know pretty well from discord. I've known him for the better part of a year, and he's been kind, friendly, and just a great guy. I trust his judgement, his ability to keep a level head, and his general demeanor.

Last, but (hopefully) not least, my final nomination is for.... myself! I wasn't at all sure if I should nominate myself last, or someone else entirely, (it felt like a bit of a dick move), but ultimately... I want to be on the Community Council. I want to represent the userbase, I want to advise the staff, I want to help make SV a better place, and I'm more than willing to put in the work for it. I'm good at getting along with people, and if I'm nominated I'll do everything I can to make SV a better place for everyone, Staff member, Councillor, or peasant regular user.
This was pretty informative, thanks.

After a brief chat with @Koshachiy where they raised some good questions and concerns, I'd like to take a moment to clarify my position on erotica.

1: I want more erotica on SV.

2: I want good erotica, not the kind of crap I can find in five seconds on AO3 already.

3: I'm never going to advocate for porn without plot. I have no issue with it, but it doesn't belong on SV. It has other places.

4: Nor am I going to tolerate fetishization of lgbt people. Not only is that insulting, it's just straight lesbian-up bad writing. I get enough of that from my japanese cartoons.

5: However, I'm willing to put up with bad or mediocre erotica written by people earnestly trying for good erotica, so long as it's clear they were genuinely trying.
Questionable Questing does already exist for smut. Giving the significant overlap between SV and QQ why do you think SV needs more erotica?
What do you consider "good" erotica?

I honestly believe we can do a better job at supporting good erotica - of whatever form - than QQ does.
Why do you think SV can support "good erotica" better than QQ?

So please, vote @BanTheFairyKing for 2019. If you have questions for me then feel free to ask.
I think I'll give you my tentative nomination (even though some of your positions seem worrying).

Of the two, hastiness is by far the better option.
As far as I was aware, reliability of punishment is a better deterrent than severity.

What's this?

Could you clarify what you mean by this?

Same as above? As far as I can tell, SV is already very welcoming to the LGBTQ community. What specific policies do you envision under this platform.

Exactly what would you call this if not a call out post? Of a call out post, mind.
Eh, I was replying to their post and indicating my disagreement. I don't really think it's a call out post.

Under what circumstances, then, is it acceptable to bring to light the personal character flaws of a political candidate?
I think that legitimising disclosing private convos has negative consequences. I guess I'm more worried about those consequences than the counterfactual harm from not doing the call out.

You were also griping about corruption and staff overreach publicly earlier. Your sudden willingness to relax standards is concerning.
This isn't a relaxation of standards, I can both think staff were overreaching in the previous scenario and be worried about people disclosing PMs of others in this scenario. I don't perceive any inconsistency. Furthermore my other post wasn't a gripe about corruption, but a policy shift that I think was in the wrong direction.
 
In advance of any arguments/debate happening, what are the differences between these two terms you have mentioned?
Functionally I see no difference between these two terms, I used the two primarily for word choice variety.

I would very much enjoy debating this matter with you! Your framing is excellent, your deportment sincere.

Do you simply have a personal dislike of works with explicit sexual content, and straightforwardly intend to represent that demographic, or do you mean to argue that erotica is an active negative influence on the site as a whole?
The latter. SV is, presently, workplace safe. Increased support and encouragement of pornography would jeopardize that, potentially. An argument might be made that a separate subforum for NSFW content would be an alternative, but reputation can precede this. If SV were to gain a reputation as a porn website, this could lead to greater restrictions by workplaces and other institutions that SV users might visit the site from.

Perhaps this could be characterized as an extreme scenario, and it is certainly speculative. However I do not believe that any benefit comes from being more open to pornography that would justify even a risk of this worst case scenario.
 
This is humor.
Questionable Questing does already exist for smut. Giving the significant overlap between SV and QQ why do you think SV needs more erotica?
QQ is not as welcoming to LGBTQ+ individuals as SV is considering they allow the usage of a slur aimed at such people. I assume the kind of erotica @Evenstar is talking about is the kind that does not fetishize members of minority communities.
 
This is very tempting tbh.

What did they do?


This was pretty informative, thanks.


Questionable Questing does already exist for smut. Giving the significant overlap between SV and QQ why do you think SV needs more erotica?
What do you consider "good" erotica?
QQ is a really really shit site with garbage erotica and tons of loli shit. Their no politics rule is the stupidest thing I ever seen on a website. When they say 'no politics' they mean they only accept their own politics.

The reason I want to push how SV is able to have erotica is so authors can escape that hell site. Also they allow people to freely use anti-trans slurs and treat LGBTQ+ issue horribly.
 
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If anyone wants my nomination or my vote, some things I'm looking for are:
  • Conservatives, centrists, apolitical people and others who are not left (I feel SV is becoming an ideological echo chamber).
  • People who believe in the free marketplace of ideas, updating beliefs on evidence, charity and other rationalist norms (I think they would provide a much needed injection of sanity).
 
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