Random Member
Gardener of Human Happiness
- Location
- Behind You
Hmm, why the grandson and not Huang Dao? What's the reason people vote for him?
Last edited:
Behind the Serpent Throne (CK2)
- Thread starter The Laurent
- Start date
- Original Fantasy
- Location
- Germany
I don't see talking to Huang Dao as that important. Kuojah's reforms should be good for trade so I don't think he will oppose them anyway.
Bisao is rather unclear in both disposition and possible benefit, but I hope that if we manage to make a good impression and gain his support, we may get some insight into courtly politics and maybe even some indirect influence.
Bisao is rather unclear in both disposition and possible benefit, but I hope that if we manage to make a good impression and gain his support, we may get some insight into courtly politics and maybe even some indirect influence.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Vote's still open, but I have a question. Can you find the update where I mentioned details about the Emperor's two sisters? They're going to be important for the next info-dump, and it's also true that they'll be larger characters in the next 20 turns than they were in the first 13.
- Location
- Somewhere!
- Pronouns
- She/Her
- Location
- Somewhere!
- Pronouns
- She/Her
This post looks more promising, although I'm not sure how to sort the relations here. Feels like I need a chart.
As far as I remember you didn't really go into much detail about them, just that they're to be isolated, I don't think you mentioned names or even ages.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Huh, and here I swear I mentioned ages. I know they were both older than the Emperor by a year or two. Gah.
Yeah I just did a brief search for them and only found them mentioned here; so I think I was correct:
You could put some information about the Emperor and his sisters in this sheet you made a long time ago, given you had a category prepared for them.
You could put some information about the Emperor and his sisters in this sheet you made a long time ago, given you had a category prepared for them.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Oh here we go:
Title: The Other Royals
Dice Rolled: Intrigue
Chance of Success: 70%
Time: 1 Turn
Text: The Emperor has two sisters, one older and one near his age. Kiralo has seen nothing of them, and knows only that their names are Biyu and Chenhau. Perhaps he could ask around, and learn more about them. It's...way too early to think of such things, with a war coming, but they might yet be important in the grand scheme of things, even if, as with Yanmae, it is clear that Kuojah is hiding them away. And no wonder, considering any marriage proposals to them would be aimed at marrying them...and then unseating the dynasty. So it's best for all involved, no doubt, that they be hidden away...yet one wonders. And one gossips.
Title: The Other Royals
Dice Rolled: Intrigue
Chance of Success: 70%
Time: 1 Turn
Text: The Emperor has two sisters, one older and one near his age. Kiralo has seen nothing of them, and knows only that their names are Biyu and Chenhau. Perhaps he could ask around, and learn more about them. It's...way too early to think of such things, with a war coming, but they might yet be important in the grand scheme of things, even if, as with Yanmae, it is clear that Kuojah is hiding them away. And no wonder, considering any marriage proposals to them would be aimed at marrying them...and then unseating the dynasty. So it's best for all involved, no doubt, that they be hidden away...yet one wonders. And one gossips.
Imperial Groupings: The Emperor's Siblings
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Imperial Groupings: The Emperor's Siblings
Family is a difficult matter for rulers, both of barbarian, inferior lands and of the Csiritan Empire. In days past, the sons of the Emperor were married far and wide, to spread influence and power, but this power often came back to try to seize the throne, and now the decision to spin off an out-of-court Imperial Princely family is rare.
The one such family, that of Prince Jinhai, has obviously discredited itself, and so for the next while, as long as that memory is fresh, any Imperial brothers are likely to follow the old tradition. They will marry a woman of importance, who will come and live in the Imperial palace with them.
They might still be a threat, of course, but at least they're one in a single place, within reach of the Imperial Guard. And other forces, for that matter. There are currently no brothers of the current Emperor, and obviously no sons, either.
He does, however, have two sisters. Sisters and daughters are difficult, because if one marries them to the wrong person, and they rebel, they can use this blood as an usurpation tool. Thus, the tradition is usually to marry sisters to prominent figures who are both established in their loyalty and not too powerful. Hereditary Governors don't marry the Emperor's sisters.
Instead, prominent landowners in the provinces that might serve as a check or balance against a Governor are a common choice, as are noted scholars. If a man shows little ambition for the top bureaucratic positions, and yet much skill as a poet and a creator of beauty, or an expounder of wisdom, then it might be safe to marry one's sister to him.
It's a delicate dance. All siblings live in the inner palace, and in this case this means two girls. Biyu, who was twelve years old, and Chenhau, who was nine. While only one of them is his sister on both sides (Chenhau also being the daughter of the late Empress), he has been raised to treat both of them as sisters in fact and in name, and thus has many close ties to them.
However, they will certainly not be married off until the new Emperor has at least two sons, however long that will take. They're too valuable, and too much of a risk. Kiralo currently knows essentially nothing about them as people, just that they've been kept in isolation at the moment.
A/N: I'm going to add notable names as a sort of easier, simpler alternative to filling out the cast page, one that has much shorter entries.
Family is a difficult matter for rulers, both of barbarian, inferior lands and of the Csiritan Empire. In days past, the sons of the Emperor were married far and wide, to spread influence and power, but this power often came back to try to seize the throne, and now the decision to spin off an out-of-court Imperial Princely family is rare.
The one such family, that of Prince Jinhai, has obviously discredited itself, and so for the next while, as long as that memory is fresh, any Imperial brothers are likely to follow the old tradition. They will marry a woman of importance, who will come and live in the Imperial palace with them.
They might still be a threat, of course, but at least they're one in a single place, within reach of the Imperial Guard. And other forces, for that matter. There are currently no brothers of the current Emperor, and obviously no sons, either.
He does, however, have two sisters. Sisters and daughters are difficult, because if one marries them to the wrong person, and they rebel, they can use this blood as an usurpation tool. Thus, the tradition is usually to marry sisters to prominent figures who are both established in their loyalty and not too powerful. Hereditary Governors don't marry the Emperor's sisters.
Instead, prominent landowners in the provinces that might serve as a check or balance against a Governor are a common choice, as are noted scholars. If a man shows little ambition for the top bureaucratic positions, and yet much skill as a poet and a creator of beauty, or an expounder of wisdom, then it might be safe to marry one's sister to him.
It's a delicate dance. All siblings live in the inner palace, and in this case this means two girls. Biyu, who was twelve years old, and Chenhau, who was nine. While only one of them is his sister on both sides (Chenhau also being the daughter of the late Empress), he has been raised to treat both of them as sisters in fact and in name, and thus has many close ties to them.
However, they will certainly not be married off until the new Emperor has at least two sons, however long that will take. They're too valuable, and too much of a risk. Kiralo currently knows essentially nothing about them as people, just that they've been kept in isolation at the moment.
Biyu, age twelve, daughter of the Beauteous Consort Ai.
Chenhau, age nine, daughter of the late Empress.
Chenhau, age nine, daughter of the late Empress.
A/N: I'm going to add notable names as a sort of easier, simpler alternative to filling out the cast page, one that has much shorter entries.
Last edited:
Imperial Groupings: Empresses, Consorts, Concubines, and Others
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Imperial Groupings: Empresses and Consorts
There is but one Empress, but there are others still. Historically, there have been many titles, but the Rectifying Emperor reduced it to a total of five titles, in hierarchical order.
First, there is the Empress. She is almost always to be a woman of high breeding and perfect morals. Charged with many sacred duties as the Emperor's wife, she had little official power, but her control over sacred rites involving Goddesses, as well as the simple fact that she was the wife of the Emperor, meant that she was usually somewhat influential, though also restricted in some ways. It's a very personal sort of power. The last Empress, Xia of Lineage Lin died three years before her husband, and the Emperor did not remarry, despite the strong advice of almost all of his advisors, united as one.
The sons of an Empress are always first in line, and yet considering the desperate straits of the dynasty and its numbers, if he had any brothers from the other Consorts and Concubines, Dai'so would have been pressured and convinced into raising them into the same rank as he, but below him, in order to give some breathing room.
Below the Empress is the Noble And Virtuous Consort of the Emperor. There is only one such woman, and while she is sometimes of high and noble rank, she is also sometimes of less exalted rank. There are standards for her behavior, standards that in theory are equally high, and yet the primary standard is the Emperor's. Whereas his wife has high moral duties, his Virtuous Consort has no duties but those that are given to her by the Emperor, such as helping to plan parties together with the Empress, or other such small tasks. This makes the interaction between the two usually… freer. Her sons, however, do not have the same status as his wife's sons, but still have enough to be powerful players in the dynastic game.
The previous Emperor did in fact have a Virtuous Consort, but she had borne no children, and upon his death, she went into a mourning seclusion that she has not yet left. Even if she did, being merely the consort of a dead Emperor, she would have no direct power or influence, except that which was given to her. Thus, she's not going to be an important player in the courtly game. History does speak of young Emperors who take, out of lust, their father's Consorts and Concubines to be their own, but whether or not Dai'so grows up to be so depraved, he's only eight, so that's not possible anyways.
Next come the Beauteous Consorts. There can be up to three of them, and they are one step down, accorded no gold in their hair except as a mark of especial favor, such as upon the birth of a son. They still live in the lap of luxury, but while it is taboo to discard one's Virtuous Consort without reason--though taboo is not law--the Beauteous Consort's lives are more confined. Those of them that do not bear sons, or cannot hold the Emperor's… attentions generally fall from their station, though usually not without a considerable payment, whether in money, in marriage (for there is no dishonor in marrying a woman who is an official consort, certainly not of an Emperor), or even in some middling plot of land.
Fourth, there are the Imperial Concubines. There may be up to ten of them, and they live in luxury, but only sometimes inhabit the inner-palace, and only then while they are pregnant with the Emperor's child. They're thus, unlike many others, not nearly so close to the Emperor, in the sense that they are not constantly within his presence, and cannot call upon him, or demand his time. But they are in an honorable station, and it affords its own sort of power.
Finally, there are Choice Ladies, as they are called. There could be up to 40 of them, and they were often chosen especially or entirely for their beauty. An Emperor who took a liking to a palace serving girl might make her a Choice Lady, and in the days of conquest (of the Southlands and Bueli), many were the women brought back to the palace because of their notable beauty. Sons and daughters of these people are successors of last resorts, and the Choice Ladies often change, being entirely dependent on the whims of the Emperor. In some senses, though, a few of them are perhaps closer than Imperial Concubines, not in status, but in the fact that they were female servants first, and continued to be so, and thus close to the Emperor in that capacity.
They usually receive gifts during their time as a Choice Lady, but little else when they are discarded, though they are not considered dishonored ,and may still make a marriage equal to their station.
Thus, an Emperor could in theory have up to fifty-five women at his beck and call. A few have gone up to this very limit, though none have gone beyond. It is considered lacking in virtue to make advances on a woman by the Emperor without granting her official status. If an Emperor lusts for some female servant, he is expected to declare her a Choice Lady. But some preferred a little more informality, as despised as this is. And of course, a maximum is not a floor: one Emperor had as few as three women, a wife, and one consort each.
All of these figures do not matter now, and might not matter for a long time, considering the Emperor's age, but it should be noted and known, and if the Emperor does ever get to the age to marry and carry on, this will definitely matter. As it stands, the Choice Ladies (there were seven) and other such figures matter just as little as the Virtuous Consort does, since the death of the Emperor robs them of their power, when none of them have any influence.
...with one exception. The Beauteous Consort, a woman of modest noble birth, Ai, is in fact the mother of Biyu, and while she has been careful in the new Emperor's presence, she does care for her daughter, and might well have plans for her.
Edited in--As a historical note/aside, while male favorites of an Emperor are not uncommon, there is no such system for controlling, ranking, and directing them. It is all very informal, in part because the men can come from many stations, and might aspire--or their fathers might aspire for them--to high office of a kind that no Imperial Consort could hold.
Additionally, since there is not the matter of children to be considered, there are very few, if any, reasons to formalize any relationships that an Emperor might choose to have, and they are generally not regarded as problematic unless A) It leads to undue corruption or favoring of the unworthy, B) The person guides him towards unwise behavior, though that's a given for both genders as a fear, or C) Distracts him from his Gods-Given duty to produce children to continue on the throne.
******
A/N: I feel like a moderately bad person for this, actually. Just because yeah, it's pretty shifty and there's a lot of sexism both stated and implied in all of this.
There is but one Empress, but there are others still. Historically, there have been many titles, but the Rectifying Emperor reduced it to a total of five titles, in hierarchical order.
First, there is the Empress. She is almost always to be a woman of high breeding and perfect morals. Charged with many sacred duties as the Emperor's wife, she had little official power, but her control over sacred rites involving Goddesses, as well as the simple fact that she was the wife of the Emperor, meant that she was usually somewhat influential, though also restricted in some ways. It's a very personal sort of power. The last Empress, Xia of Lineage Lin died three years before her husband, and the Emperor did not remarry, despite the strong advice of almost all of his advisors, united as one.
The sons of an Empress are always first in line, and yet considering the desperate straits of the dynasty and its numbers, if he had any brothers from the other Consorts and Concubines, Dai'so would have been pressured and convinced into raising them into the same rank as he, but below him, in order to give some breathing room.
Below the Empress is the Noble And Virtuous Consort of the Emperor. There is only one such woman, and while she is sometimes of high and noble rank, she is also sometimes of less exalted rank. There are standards for her behavior, standards that in theory are equally high, and yet the primary standard is the Emperor's. Whereas his wife has high moral duties, his Virtuous Consort has no duties but those that are given to her by the Emperor, such as helping to plan parties together with the Empress, or other such small tasks. This makes the interaction between the two usually… freer. Her sons, however, do not have the same status as his wife's sons, but still have enough to be powerful players in the dynastic game.
The previous Emperor did in fact have a Virtuous Consort, but she had borne no children, and upon his death, she went into a mourning seclusion that she has not yet left. Even if she did, being merely the consort of a dead Emperor, she would have no direct power or influence, except that which was given to her. Thus, she's not going to be an important player in the courtly game. History does speak of young Emperors who take, out of lust, their father's Consorts and Concubines to be their own, but whether or not Dai'so grows up to be so depraved, he's only eight, so that's not possible anyways.
Next come the Beauteous Consorts. There can be up to three of them, and they are one step down, accorded no gold in their hair except as a mark of especial favor, such as upon the birth of a son. They still live in the lap of luxury, but while it is taboo to discard one's Virtuous Consort without reason--though taboo is not law--the Beauteous Consort's lives are more confined. Those of them that do not bear sons, or cannot hold the Emperor's… attentions generally fall from their station, though usually not without a considerable payment, whether in money, in marriage (for there is no dishonor in marrying a woman who is an official consort, certainly not of an Emperor), or even in some middling plot of land.
Fourth, there are the Imperial Concubines. There may be up to ten of them, and they live in luxury, but only sometimes inhabit the inner-palace, and only then while they are pregnant with the Emperor's child. They're thus, unlike many others, not nearly so close to the Emperor, in the sense that they are not constantly within his presence, and cannot call upon him, or demand his time. But they are in an honorable station, and it affords its own sort of power.
Finally, there are Choice Ladies, as they are called. There could be up to 40 of them, and they were often chosen especially or entirely for their beauty. An Emperor who took a liking to a palace serving girl might make her a Choice Lady, and in the days of conquest (of the Southlands and Bueli), many were the women brought back to the palace because of their notable beauty. Sons and daughters of these people are successors of last resorts, and the Choice Ladies often change, being entirely dependent on the whims of the Emperor. In some senses, though, a few of them are perhaps closer than Imperial Concubines, not in status, but in the fact that they were female servants first, and continued to be so, and thus close to the Emperor in that capacity.
They usually receive gifts during their time as a Choice Lady, but little else when they are discarded, though they are not considered dishonored ,and may still make a marriage equal to their station.
Thus, an Emperor could in theory have up to fifty-five women at his beck and call. A few have gone up to this very limit, though none have gone beyond. It is considered lacking in virtue to make advances on a woman by the Emperor without granting her official status. If an Emperor lusts for some female servant, he is expected to declare her a Choice Lady. But some preferred a little more informality, as despised as this is. And of course, a maximum is not a floor: one Emperor had as few as three women, a wife, and one consort each.
All of these figures do not matter now, and might not matter for a long time, considering the Emperor's age, but it should be noted and known, and if the Emperor does ever get to the age to marry and carry on, this will definitely matter. As it stands, the Choice Ladies (there were seven) and other such figures matter just as little as the Virtuous Consort does, since the death of the Emperor robs them of their power, when none of them have any influence.
...with one exception. The Beauteous Consort, a woman of modest noble birth, Ai, is in fact the mother of Biyu, and while she has been careful in the new Emperor's presence, she does care for her daughter, and might well have plans for her.
Edited in--As a historical note/aside, while male favorites of an Emperor are not uncommon, there is no such system for controlling, ranking, and directing them. It is all very informal, in part because the men can come from many stations, and might aspire--or their fathers might aspire for them--to high office of a kind that no Imperial Consort could hold.
Additionally, since there is not the matter of children to be considered, there are very few, if any, reasons to formalize any relationships that an Emperor might choose to have, and they are generally not regarded as problematic unless A) It leads to undue corruption or favoring of the unworthy, B) The person guides him towards unwise behavior, though that's a given for both genders as a fear, or C) Distracts him from his Gods-Given duty to produce children to continue on the throne.
Ai, the Beauteous Consort of Emperor Meng, and mother of Biyu
******
A/N: I feel like a moderately bad person for this, actually. Just because yeah, it's pretty shifty and there's a lot of sexism both stated and implied in all of this.
Last edited:
- Location
- ?
I mean, yeah, sexism ahoy, but also it's not like anyone has been expecting differently, given what we've seen in the quest so far?
It's an interesting dissonance with, uh. Modern sensibilities?
But it's nice of you to acknowledge the bad stuff being bad.
- Location
- Spain
I think you mean Below the Empress.
Last edited:
- Location
- Spain
It's not wrong tho
Below the Emperor is a tautology.
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Oh! That's what I forgot to note. Thanks for reminding me. I'll add it into the Info-thing.
I am kinda sorry we missed "Seduce the emperor" plot then. But this very well done. I like when writers are period appropriate...
Turn 12B/13A--Part 3
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Turn 12B/13A--Part 3
Ren (of Lineage Bo) knelt at the table, glancing at his guest. To know humanity was wisdom, to be human was to love humanity, or so it was said. Kiralo examined this example of humanity, twitchy, tired looking, already slipping into fleshiness despite being only a few years older than Kiralo. But he was a smart man, who was wise in the Merchant's way.
"Your father oversteps himself," Ren said, glancing down at his rice, and holding his sticks as if they were a weapon.
Kiralo grabbed some of the eel that was being served, sliced, and dipped it in the sauce before setting it down on a separate place and using his sticks to gather some rice to eat it with. The eel was excellent, though eel was an acquired taste: it was the sauce, then, that was so very excellent.
"Maybe he does. But it's something you can support. In fact, have to support. The silver supply is a government monopoly, after all. If the government suffers… we will need quite a lot more in the way of silver and, perhaps even gold, before too long."
"They say that Cs-Kuojah speaks of eliminating the power of the Governors to mint with thier own faces on the coinage."
"They say many things," Kiralo said. "They might be right in this case. You need to keep on the side of the government, though." Kiralo spread his hands for a moment, not setting down his chopsticks. "You need the contracts."
Silver was a monopoly, with all that this implied. There was a lot of money in it, but you had to play by the government's rules. Just as the government tried to keep a careful track of their coinage. Of course, there was a trend towards bullion, towards individual usage of silver shaped and formed by silversmiths, but… it was a trend that the government fought, and to be a part of the official silver monopoly was to abide by the rules. Silver for jewelry, silver for coins, and no more.
Who followed the rules? That was a harder question.
"I do. Are you saying that you're considering a new minting?"
"I'm saying that we'll need contracts. We'll need your help. We'll need the help of your friends, given time." Kiralo didn't spread his hands, didn't make any showy gestures. He knew they wouldn't go over well with this merchant, or with any of the other money merchants, who bought silver from the mines and then transported and resold it.
Some, some lucky few, owned the mines as well, creating a direct trail straight from the mines into the Imperial treasury, which exchanged goods, and rice, for the metals that they could turn into money. Copper, silver, and the occasional gold, but only as a major trading coin used in governmental interactions.
"Perhaps. But of course, what we do depends on what we get."
Kiralo didn't sigh, but instead smiled. "Of course. The important thing to note is that if the roads eventually extend into Rerin, think of it…"
Ren clearly was, because there was a look of pig-like greed that crossed his face as he considered it.
And smiled.
********
Kiralo couldn't keep silver from sticking to his hands if he wanted to. It just wasn't possible, because it was how the world worked. So people gave him gifts. A silver cup, a silver hair-pin, in the shape of a tortoise, that had been carefully tinted dark green in order to disobey no sumptuary rules.
A wooden travel-box filled with spices for his kitchen and perfumes for his body.
These were given to him with the expectation that he'd return the favor, that he'd give people what they wanted. Whisper in the right ears, do the right thing.
It was how the world worked.
Sadly or not so sadly, it all depended.
*******
Ayila didn't give him bribes. Instead, she gave him instruction. "Fate is a thread, and like any thread it can be tugged, and it can be snipped. never act as if you think you are sure of fate." Ayila smiled, glancing at Kiralo. It was several days out, after yet another meeting with a silver merchant.
If he needed silver, and perhaps he indeed did, then he was certainly set for the next decade.
"Perhaps so, but that doesn't change how it feels for those in the middle of it."
"You aren't in the middle of it. But you could be. You need to understand what it can do. It sees the threads, the ties, the lines. And Aiyistin."
The spirit perked up, and when it began to vibrate and moved, so did all of his other spirits. Kiralo winced for a moment, though he knew that she suffered from her own spirit, from her own act.
"How do I learn to control him? I still don't know what he can do?'
"He is a conduit. He can see the course of events, and the course of death. You can use him to understand as nobody else can what will happen next. Ask for his guidance, and deploy him as he sees it. He'll see death coming. Perhaps that is useful."
Ayila's voice was wry, because of course it had been. He clutched his knees, trying to breath in and out. But it would take more than instruction to control Aiyistin. But he breathed in and out, as she had been instructing him, as if he needed help with basic meditation exercises.
This time, though, as it hadn't the last week, it felt as if it were flowing together. Action followed action, and his breaths grew deeper as he felt…
Warmth and cold, that's how he felt it. The spirit was running along his spine, it was playing about his body like you might a home, but through it, he could feel something. Warmth coming from her, coldness coming from everywhere else. He shivered.
The ability to sense where the living are was hardly the most useful thing on a day to day basis, but he focused and concentrated.
It felt as if he were just scraping the surface.
"What about your destiny? And your new Spirit?"
"I know it drives me, but I wish for some small time to myself, some small breath. Something to allow me to be ready for what comes next. It will not be easy to find. You'll help me, right? Though I am just a girl?"
Kiralo laughed at the transparent game. She was far from just a girl. "I might, but don't play to weakness. They won't believe it of some foreign spirit-caller. Play up your strange and supernatural nature. It might set them in fear of us." Kiralo shook his head. "Fear might matter."
Ayila composed her features, glancing over at the wooden box. "So I shouldn't put on one of your strange Csiritan flower perfumes? I shouldn't change my dress?"
If anything, she'd grown stranger still in the past few weeks. She now dressed in clothing covered in beads and holy objects, some of them shaped like eyes, and when she walked, she jangled in a way that was nothing like the bead dancers of the Southlands. Her hood hid her features, but the jangle and the feeling of power that came from her made it impossible to mistake what she was.
"No. You shouldn't. You can take some of the perfume if you wish. I don't know what I'll do with it." Kiralo shrugged, considering their fragrances. He liked some of them, but others… not as much, and of course, it was bribery, pure and simple.
"I do like the scent." Ayila smiled softly. "This land is strange. But there is beauty here."
"If you really wish to see beauty you can appreciate, I have more than a few people you should see in court."
"Who?"
"There is this boy called Han, named after the hero, no doubt, who is such a good dancer that he's already under the protection of the Emperor. And there are good musicians in the palace, though I haven't had time to learn of them."
"Interesting." Ayila shook her head. "When I return home, there will be little enough of that."
"Your family isn't noble?"
"Honored and ancient, but not noble. We maintain a shrine to the Great Spirit Hisjin. It's how I knew that such Great Spirits can be communed with." She let out a breath. "Though not what it would be like."
"There's plenty of honor in spending your life maintaining a shrine," Kiralo said.
"Would that be your choice of life?" Ayila asked, a little bitterness.
"It could be."
"I'm content with my lot, but…" Ayila shrugged. "I've come so far, and done so much, to just return… but I know my duty."
"Ah, duty," Kiralo said, shaking his head and looking at her. She was the same age he'd been, more or less, when he'd run off to the Rassit. For the first time, it felt like he understood that, and understood what she might become.
And how she might be able to help him.
And perhaps visa versa.
Unlocked Aiyistin actions further.
Got Character sheet:
*******
"The moon is quite beautiful. But the clouds veil it from sight, at times," said Huang of Lineage Tang, as he lifted up his cup of water as if he was about to drink down the finest rice wine.
"Yet the clouds are needed, for from them come the rain, and we cannot live forever in its light," said Nin, who was a landholder of the area.
"And there is the ocean to be considered, is there not?" said Yin'lao, a wise scholar, his face long with many years of worry and thought, and a good friend of Kuojah's.
Kiralo didn't frown, but he did sip his tea. "The moon blesses the sky/ So all know/ The ocean rises and falls/ The moon is master of the sea/ The wise man is master of his tongue/ I sip my tea, and think of the sun." He shrugged as he threw out a verse. "The time will come when the Sea-Raiders are defeated."
He took another short drink of the tea, smiling now at the reaction to him stating what he meant directly. "But as the tide rises, and the tide falls, it will rise again. Do you fear the moon?"
"We do not fear the moon, but we do love the sun," Nin said. He was a tall, crooked looking man, whose eyes watered when he got sentimental. Unlike all of the others, it was rice wine in his cups, though his poetry was at least a little less measured and mannered than the others.
"The sun brings life and controls the blue skies/ But so too does an angry sun beat down/ So too does the foolish man perish for heat/ The wise man talks in sun and shade both alike/ The flower that blooms does so in its own time." Huang paused for the effect of his poem, and shook his head. "It is a lovely moon, but both it and the sun are best viewed from afar, and indirectly. If you stare at the sun, you go blind."
"Ah," Kiralo said. He glanced at the moon in the pool of water. It was a lovely garden, small and enclosed, and the foliage pressed in on all sides.
He could hear the chirring of the insects, and the sounds of people talking far off. Three other men, all between thirty and sixty, sat with the group. These men listened, when they were not called upon to present poetry.
Lo, Gin, and Qiang were their names, and these six people were all learned and cultured men, though also oblique men. But their meaning was clear. They were afraid that this was overreach. There was a traditionalism that feared that too much Imperial interference in noble affairs was a mistake, from a practical perspective. Not a matter of the Emperor being in any way inferior to them, but in the difficulties and limitations of the world and of propriety, for the nobility had a purpose.
Kujoah was clearly no respecter of this as a general principle, and they knew that much. But they hadn't known quite how much he was going to be poking his nose in. And now here they were, waiting on Kiralo.
They wanted him to make a speech, they wanted to be convinced, just as they wanted not to fear him, to fear the moon--silver, the color of war--that hung above in the sky. That reflected off the pool of water that some of them had already carefully implied, in poetry, was his father.
They saw the two in context, and Kiralo could do nothing about that except use it to his advantage.
What does he argue on? (Choose 2)
[] The necessity and virtue of the agricultural reforms, even to the extent that they seem designed to aid the merchant.
[] The usefulness of military reforms, and the lack of threat of the military, or rather their capacity to be controlled.
[] The importance and justice of centralization and bureaucratization, and its lack of danger for these men and their interests.
[] The filial piety of Kiralo towards his father, and the possibility of rewards stretching even beyond whatever time the Gods choose for Kuojah to pass beyond the stream of life.
******
A/N: Whew, okay, so I'm cutting it off here. We're halfway through the list, or will be once we get through it.
Ren (of Lineage Bo) knelt at the table, glancing at his guest. To know humanity was wisdom, to be human was to love humanity, or so it was said. Kiralo examined this example of humanity, twitchy, tired looking, already slipping into fleshiness despite being only a few years older than Kiralo. But he was a smart man, who was wise in the Merchant's way.
"Your father oversteps himself," Ren said, glancing down at his rice, and holding his sticks as if they were a weapon.
Kiralo grabbed some of the eel that was being served, sliced, and dipped it in the sauce before setting it down on a separate place and using his sticks to gather some rice to eat it with. The eel was excellent, though eel was an acquired taste: it was the sauce, then, that was so very excellent.
"Maybe he does. But it's something you can support. In fact, have to support. The silver supply is a government monopoly, after all. If the government suffers… we will need quite a lot more in the way of silver and, perhaps even gold, before too long."
"They say that Cs-Kuojah speaks of eliminating the power of the Governors to mint with thier own faces on the coinage."
"They say many things," Kiralo said. "They might be right in this case. You need to keep on the side of the government, though." Kiralo spread his hands for a moment, not setting down his chopsticks. "You need the contracts."
Silver was a monopoly, with all that this implied. There was a lot of money in it, but you had to play by the government's rules. Just as the government tried to keep a careful track of their coinage. Of course, there was a trend towards bullion, towards individual usage of silver shaped and formed by silversmiths, but… it was a trend that the government fought, and to be a part of the official silver monopoly was to abide by the rules. Silver for jewelry, silver for coins, and no more.
Who followed the rules? That was a harder question.
"I do. Are you saying that you're considering a new minting?"
"I'm saying that we'll need contracts. We'll need your help. We'll need the help of your friends, given time." Kiralo didn't spread his hands, didn't make any showy gestures. He knew they wouldn't go over well with this merchant, or with any of the other money merchants, who bought silver from the mines and then transported and resold it.
Some, some lucky few, owned the mines as well, creating a direct trail straight from the mines into the Imperial treasury, which exchanged goods, and rice, for the metals that they could turn into money. Copper, silver, and the occasional gold, but only as a major trading coin used in governmental interactions.
"Perhaps. But of course, what we do depends on what we get."
Kiralo didn't sigh, but instead smiled. "Of course. The important thing to note is that if the roads eventually extend into Rerin, think of it…"
Ren clearly was, because there was a look of pig-like greed that crossed his face as he considered it.
And smiled.
********
Kiralo couldn't keep silver from sticking to his hands if he wanted to. It just wasn't possible, because it was how the world worked. So people gave him gifts. A silver cup, a silver hair-pin, in the shape of a tortoise, that had been carefully tinted dark green in order to disobey no sumptuary rules.
A wooden travel-box filled with spices for his kitchen and perfumes for his body.
These were given to him with the expectation that he'd return the favor, that he'd give people what they wanted. Whisper in the right ears, do the right thing.
It was how the world worked.
Sadly or not so sadly, it all depended.
*******
Ayila didn't give him bribes. Instead, she gave him instruction. "Fate is a thread, and like any thread it can be tugged, and it can be snipped. never act as if you think you are sure of fate." Ayila smiled, glancing at Kiralo. It was several days out, after yet another meeting with a silver merchant.
If he needed silver, and perhaps he indeed did, then he was certainly set for the next decade.
"Perhaps so, but that doesn't change how it feels for those in the middle of it."
"You aren't in the middle of it. But you could be. You need to understand what it can do. It sees the threads, the ties, the lines. And Aiyistin."
The spirit perked up, and when it began to vibrate and moved, so did all of his other spirits. Kiralo winced for a moment, though he knew that she suffered from her own spirit, from her own act.
"How do I learn to control him? I still don't know what he can do?'
"He is a conduit. He can see the course of events, and the course of death. You can use him to understand as nobody else can what will happen next. Ask for his guidance, and deploy him as he sees it. He'll see death coming. Perhaps that is useful."
Ayila's voice was wry, because of course it had been. He clutched his knees, trying to breath in and out. But it would take more than instruction to control Aiyistin. But he breathed in and out, as she had been instructing him, as if he needed help with basic meditation exercises.
This time, though, as it hadn't the last week, it felt as if it were flowing together. Action followed action, and his breaths grew deeper as he felt…
Warmth and cold, that's how he felt it. The spirit was running along his spine, it was playing about his body like you might a home, but through it, he could feel something. Warmth coming from her, coldness coming from everywhere else. He shivered.
The ability to sense where the living are was hardly the most useful thing on a day to day basis, but he focused and concentrated.
It felt as if he were just scraping the surface.
"What about your destiny? And your new Spirit?"
"I know it drives me, but I wish for some small time to myself, some small breath. Something to allow me to be ready for what comes next. It will not be easy to find. You'll help me, right? Though I am just a girl?"
Kiralo laughed at the transparent game. She was far from just a girl. "I might, but don't play to weakness. They won't believe it of some foreign spirit-caller. Play up your strange and supernatural nature. It might set them in fear of us." Kiralo shook his head. "Fear might matter."
Ayila composed her features, glancing over at the wooden box. "So I shouldn't put on one of your strange Csiritan flower perfumes? I shouldn't change my dress?"
If anything, she'd grown stranger still in the past few weeks. She now dressed in clothing covered in beads and holy objects, some of them shaped like eyes, and when she walked, she jangled in a way that was nothing like the bead dancers of the Southlands. Her hood hid her features, but the jangle and the feeling of power that came from her made it impossible to mistake what she was.
"No. You shouldn't. You can take some of the perfume if you wish. I don't know what I'll do with it." Kiralo shrugged, considering their fragrances. He liked some of them, but others… not as much, and of course, it was bribery, pure and simple.
"I do like the scent." Ayila smiled softly. "This land is strange. But there is beauty here."
"If you really wish to see beauty you can appreciate, I have more than a few people you should see in court."
"Who?"
"There is this boy called Han, named after the hero, no doubt, who is such a good dancer that he's already under the protection of the Emperor. And there are good musicians in the palace, though I haven't had time to learn of them."
"Interesting." Ayila shook her head. "When I return home, there will be little enough of that."
"Your family isn't noble?"
"Honored and ancient, but not noble. We maintain a shrine to the Great Spirit Hisjin. It's how I knew that such Great Spirits can be communed with." She let out a breath. "Though not what it would be like."
"There's plenty of honor in spending your life maintaining a shrine," Kiralo said.
"Would that be your choice of life?" Ayila asked, a little bitterness.
"It could be."
"I'm content with my lot, but…" Ayila shrugged. "I've come so far, and done so much, to just return… but I know my duty."
"Ah, duty," Kiralo said, shaking his head and looking at her. She was the same age he'd been, more or less, when he'd run off to the Rassit. For the first time, it felt like he understood that, and understood what she might become.
And how she might be able to help him.
And perhaps visa versa.
Unlocked Aiyistin actions further.
Got Character sheet:
Martial: 5+1=6
Diplomacy: 12-1=11
Stewardship: 11
Intrigue: 10
Learning: 15+?+?=21
Personal Combat: 22
Magic: 32
Known Traits:
Temperate, Envious, Proud, Many Eyed Spirit
Diplomacy: 12-1=11
Stewardship: 11
Intrigue: 10
Learning: 15+?+?=21
Personal Combat: 22
Magic: 32
Known Traits:
Temperate, Envious, Proud, Many Eyed Spirit
*******
"The moon is quite beautiful. But the clouds veil it from sight, at times," said Huang of Lineage Tang, as he lifted up his cup of water as if he was about to drink down the finest rice wine.
"Yet the clouds are needed, for from them come the rain, and we cannot live forever in its light," said Nin, who was a landholder of the area.
"And there is the ocean to be considered, is there not?" said Yin'lao, a wise scholar, his face long with many years of worry and thought, and a good friend of Kuojah's.
Kiralo didn't frown, but he did sip his tea. "The moon blesses the sky/ So all know/ The ocean rises and falls/ The moon is master of the sea/ The wise man is master of his tongue/ I sip my tea, and think of the sun." He shrugged as he threw out a verse. "The time will come when the Sea-Raiders are defeated."
He took another short drink of the tea, smiling now at the reaction to him stating what he meant directly. "But as the tide rises, and the tide falls, it will rise again. Do you fear the moon?"
"We do not fear the moon, but we do love the sun," Nin said. He was a tall, crooked looking man, whose eyes watered when he got sentimental. Unlike all of the others, it was rice wine in his cups, though his poetry was at least a little less measured and mannered than the others.
"The sun brings life and controls the blue skies/ But so too does an angry sun beat down/ So too does the foolish man perish for heat/ The wise man talks in sun and shade both alike/ The flower that blooms does so in its own time." Huang paused for the effect of his poem, and shook his head. "It is a lovely moon, but both it and the sun are best viewed from afar, and indirectly. If you stare at the sun, you go blind."
"Ah," Kiralo said. He glanced at the moon in the pool of water. It was a lovely garden, small and enclosed, and the foliage pressed in on all sides.
He could hear the chirring of the insects, and the sounds of people talking far off. Three other men, all between thirty and sixty, sat with the group. These men listened, when they were not called upon to present poetry.
Lo, Gin, and Qiang were their names, and these six people were all learned and cultured men, though also oblique men. But their meaning was clear. They were afraid that this was overreach. There was a traditionalism that feared that too much Imperial interference in noble affairs was a mistake, from a practical perspective. Not a matter of the Emperor being in any way inferior to them, but in the difficulties and limitations of the world and of propriety, for the nobility had a purpose.
Kujoah was clearly no respecter of this as a general principle, and they knew that much. But they hadn't known quite how much he was going to be poking his nose in. And now here they were, waiting on Kiralo.
They wanted him to make a speech, they wanted to be convinced, just as they wanted not to fear him, to fear the moon--silver, the color of war--that hung above in the sky. That reflected off the pool of water that some of them had already carefully implied, in poetry, was his father.
They saw the two in context, and Kiralo could do nothing about that except use it to his advantage.
What does he argue on? (Choose 2)
[] The necessity and virtue of the agricultural reforms, even to the extent that they seem designed to aid the merchant.
[] The usefulness of military reforms, and the lack of threat of the military, or rather their capacity to be controlled.
[] The importance and justice of centralization and bureaucratization, and its lack of danger for these men and their interests.
[] The filial piety of Kiralo towards his father, and the possibility of rewards stretching even beyond whatever time the Gods choose for Kuojah to pass beyond the stream of life.
-[X] Mercantile Gripes
Need: 30, Rolled: 1d100+10=88
Ren and Other Silver Merchants Convo: 88 is base, which means that even the worst rolls merely turn really good into good.
Moon Viewing: 1d100+23+5 (Being a Poet)=66, 63, 114
Roll: 1d100+23=98, 69, 50
-[X] My Father's Explainer x2
Need: Variable, Rolled: 1d100+9 (Average of learning and Diplomacy)=78, 22
-[X] Mercantile Gripes
Need: 30, Rolled: 1d100+10=88
-[X] The Most Noble Men of Csrae
Need: 20, Rolled: 1d100+12=84
-[X] The Course of Fate(Ayila)
Need: Variable, Rolled: 1d100+15=59
Need: 30, Rolled: 1d100+10=88
Ren and Other Silver Merchants Convo: 88 is base, which means that even the worst rolls merely turn really good into good.
Moon Viewing: 1d100+23+5 (Being a Poet)=66, 63, 114
Roll: 1d100+23=98, 69, 50
-[X] My Father's Explainer x2
Need: Variable, Rolled: 1d100+9 (Average of learning and Diplomacy)=78, 22
-[X] Mercantile Gripes
Need: 30, Rolled: 1d100+10=88
-[X] The Most Noble Men of Csrae
Need: 20, Rolled: 1d100+12=84
-[X] The Course of Fate(Ayila)
Need: Variable, Rolled: 1d100+15=59
******
A/N: Whew, okay, so I'm cutting it off here. We're halfway through the list, or will be once we get through it.
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
This seems like the important one, given their specific concerns?
- Pronouns
- They/Them
It's not their only concern. But it is the one that they bring up first, certainly. Or perhaps second.
Random Member
Gardener of Human Happiness
- Location
- Behind You
It's not like we expected anything more from Glorious Csirit, but it makes me kinda sad that the best we can probably do about this is to make it slightly less bad.
I don't think they care much about military reform but if we can convince them of its importance, it might make it easier to pull off in the future. They do seem to fear the possibility of us using the military for purposes they don't like, hence the whole moon talk. Considering how much they talk about it, we should probably ensure them that we're no threat to them.
The agricultural reforms and centralization/bureaucratization affect them directly, so they're obviously worried about that as well. More about centralization in general than about the agricultural reforms.
The.... filial piety option is probably the best for ensuring that they'll support us once Kuojah dies. It's also basically playing on their greed and desire for continuity, which knowing Csiritan officials is probably not a bad idea.
In short, agricultural reforms and/or centralization if we want to convince them that Kuojah's current reforms are a good thing and no threat to them (and don't actually aid those filthy merchants!), military reform if we want to convince them that we aren't a threat to them and filial piety if we want to lure them to our side with the promise of rewards in the future.
[] The necessity and virtue of the agricultural reforms, even to the extent that they seem designed to aid the merchant.
[X] The usefulness of military reforms, and the lack of threat of the military, or rather their capacity to be controlled.
[] The importance and justice of centralization and bureaucratization, and its lack of danger for these men and their interests.
[X] The filial piety of Kiralo towards his father, and the possibility of rewards stretching even beyond whatever time the Gods choose for Kuojah to pass beyond the stream of life.
I'm picking filial piety because the entire point of talking to these people was, atleast to me, to ensure that we get atleast some of Kuojah's supporters on our side when he dies. Also military reforms because they seem to be afraid of our position as Envoy and the possibility we might abuse it. It's a shame that we won't talk about Kuojah's current reforms themselves, so they might not be that supportive of them even if we can convince them to back us. But that wasn't really the point of picking these guys, for me, and at the very least they won't suddenly abandon Kuojah because they disagree with the reforms.
Last edited:
[X] The necessity and virtue of the agricultural reforms, even to the extent that they seem designed to aid the merchant.
[X] The importance and justice of centralization and bureaucratization, and its lack of danger for these men and their interests.
Given these are Kuojah's men I decided not to go for the military reforms as they already have great incentives to follow through on Kuojah's plan given their long time association with him, so that can be left out for now.
Instead I went with the agricultural reforms option and the centralization one. The first one is important and should be an easy argument to have, given the fundamentals of life and economy rely upon agriculture so if these reforms are shown to be an improvement life for all classes should improve; and at minimum it would make famine less likely thus disorder/banditry less likely.
Centralization was chosen because it seems like one of their primary concerns, and it is certainly a valid one given the harm that a bad centralized government can do. However we should have a certain advantage given how Kuojah and his father rose up through the ranks through virtue and merit, so it can be argued the good of centralization out weighs the bad, particularly as these men are likely attached to those who attained their bureaucratic positions similarly as Kuojah and so benefit from them being empowered.
[X] The importance and justice of centralization and bureaucratization, and its lack of danger for these men and their interests.
Given these are Kuojah's men I decided not to go for the military reforms as they already have great incentives to follow through on Kuojah's plan given their long time association with him, so that can be left out for now.
Instead I went with the agricultural reforms option and the centralization one. The first one is important and should be an easy argument to have, given the fundamentals of life and economy rely upon agriculture so if these reforms are shown to be an improvement life for all classes should improve; and at minimum it would make famine less likely thus disorder/banditry less likely.
Centralization was chosen because it seems like one of their primary concerns, and it is certainly a valid one given the harm that a bad centralized government can do. However we should have a certain advantage given how Kuojah and his father rose up through the ranks through virtue and merit, so it can be argued the good of centralization out weighs the bad, particularly as these men are likely attached to those who attained their bureaucratic positions similarly as Kuojah and so benefit from them being empowered.
Zeitgeist Blue
Currently Made of Metal
- Location
- Manila, Philippines, GMT +8
[X] The importance and justice of centralization and bureaucratization, and its lack of danger for these men and their interests.
[X] The filial piety of Kiralo towards his father, and the possibility of rewards stretching even beyond whatever time the Gods choose for Kuojah to pass beyond the stream of life.
[X] The filial piety of Kiralo towards his father, and the possibility of rewards stretching even beyond whatever time the Gods choose for Kuojah to pass beyond the stream of life.
[] The necessity and virtue of the agricultural reforms, even to the extent that they seem designed to aid the merchant.
I think we might be able to sell them on the economic benefits. It benefits the merchant, but more food means more men, and more men means more power for the nobility.
[] The usefulness of military reforms, and the lack of threat of the military, or rather their capacity to be controlled.
As a military man ourself, I'm not sure this is a very good angle, particularly right after a martial triumph. They feel threatened perhaps.
Martial force remains the final argument against which there are few other arguments when the armies march at last.
[] The importance and justice of centralization and bureaucratization, and its lack of danger for these men and their interests.
This would be the candy. Improving central power means more power to leverage around the center. No doubt they have already been considering how they could influence the child-emperor. This is a good thing for those in the halls of power
[] The filial piety of Kiralo towards his father, and the possibility of rewards stretching even beyond whatever time the Gods choose for Kuojah to pass beyond the stream of life.
This appeases their Traditionalist leanings, and says we will respect familial loyalties even if the original holder of them has passed. They want this. Badly. Without this all else is smoke and vapor, for Kiralo will not respect his father's ties.
[X] The necessity and virtue of the agricultural reforms, even to the extent that they seem designed to aid the merchant.
[X] The filial piety of Kiralo towards his father, and the possibility of rewards stretching even beyond whatever time the Gods choose for Kuojah to pass beyond the stream of life.
One to sell to them. One to buy them with. It is not traditional, but Kuojah can push it through. Perhaps they can profit along the way.
I think we might be able to sell them on the economic benefits. It benefits the merchant, but more food means more men, and more men means more power for the nobility.
[] The usefulness of military reforms, and the lack of threat of the military, or rather their capacity to be controlled.
As a military man ourself, I'm not sure this is a very good angle, particularly right after a martial triumph. They feel threatened perhaps.
Martial force remains the final argument against which there are few other arguments when the armies march at last.
[] The importance and justice of centralization and bureaucratization, and its lack of danger for these men and their interests.
This would be the candy. Improving central power means more power to leverage around the center. No doubt they have already been considering how they could influence the child-emperor. This is a good thing for those in the halls of power
[] The filial piety of Kiralo towards his father, and the possibility of rewards stretching even beyond whatever time the Gods choose for Kuojah to pass beyond the stream of life.
This appeases their Traditionalist leanings, and says we will respect familial loyalties even if the original holder of them has passed. They want this. Badly. Without this all else is smoke and vapor, for Kiralo will not respect his father's ties.
[X] The necessity and virtue of the agricultural reforms, even to the extent that they seem designed to aid the merchant.
[X] The filial piety of Kiralo towards his father, and the possibility of rewards stretching even beyond whatever time the Gods choose for Kuojah to pass beyond the stream of life.
One to sell to them. One to buy them with. It is not traditional, but Kuojah can push it through. Perhaps they can profit along the way.
Random Member
Gardener of Human Happiness
- Location
- Behind You
They do feel threatened, hence the whole moon talk. But that's also one of the points of the military reform action, to assuage their fear and convince them of "the lack of threat of the military, or rather their capacity to be controlled".