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Winter is Coming: House Stark Quest

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I really don't see what we gain by burning the West. The Lannisters are essentially finished as contenders for the Iron Throne. They'll be too busy just trying to survive to threaten us, even discounting the fact that we have a hostage.

We do have a lot of Westerlander nobles captive though. We can probably leverage that in some way.
Timewarriors said:
Guys I just remember but do we want to do anything with Skagos I mean that a huge island doing nothing.
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"Give" it to the more reasonable clans among the Wildlings to get them out of our hair? House Stark rules Skagos in name only.
 
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Driven by Apathy said:
I really don't see what we gain by burning the West. The Lannisters are essentially finished as contenders for the Iron Throne. They'll be too busy just trying to survive to threaten us, even discounting the fact that we have a hostage.

We do have a lot of Westerlander nobles captive though. We can probably leverage that in some way.
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In cannon they still went to attack the Riverlands, I want to loot them for their economy and to secure our flanks, if we have to ride south with Robb we might have the Lannisters attack the Riverlands in our absence
 
Yeah, Robb can do better than a Royce. Regarding marriages we should definitely have someone from our family marry into the North. Got to keep our own bannermen happy. I say have Sansa married or courted by a house from the North and as for Robb I don't know. Not the Royce's though, they really don't bring the Vale with them.
 
Atri said:
[X] Plan Fortify
-[X] Eddard will go North and Robb will stay south. The heir to Winterfell has proven himself an adept commander, and it has been too long since its Lord saw his lady wife.
-[X] Send as many scouts and rangers out as possible, in a wide but closely connected net, so that if one disappears or dies, the others know of it. Order them to bring you word of whatever they hear or see. Simultaneously, order for a small host to be gathered near the Long Lake.
-[X] Say nothing in regards to Stannis or Renly. We may have declared for Stannis, but we owe him nothing; he did nothing to aid Lord Eddard in his danger, as should be his duty. Vassalage is a two-way street - if Stannis wants the powers of it, let him prove he also honors its responsibilities. As For Renly, we have no quarrel with him; the Riverlands are ours, and should he want anything of them or us, let him come and ask. But while you do not offer anything to either lords, use this time wisely: fortify, fortify, fortify. Attacks could be coming from all directions. With Baelish in the wind and knowing that Lysa is under his influence, there may come trouble from there. You can't trust the Westerlands to stay silent either for too long. Also, suggest advantageous marriages between Northern and Riverlander noble families to tie the two realms closer together.
-[X] See who has lost the most due to Clegane's rampage and offer that lord to take his head. Before the execution, send out an invitation to Dorne. They can attend the execution if they manage to get there on time and if they want the body afterwards to do whatever they want to do with it, that's fine with us.
-[X] Send a message to all the Lord and Ladies of the Vale regarding the recent occurrences. Express surprise that Lysa did not come aid her siblings,but understanding that she may not have been able to do so. Proclaim Petyr Baelish to be a traitor who killed Jon Arryn and desires to rule the Vale. Hint that Lysa might have been involved in Arryn's death without outright saying it.
-[X] Negotiate with all the major Northern houses for Robb's betrothal and then chose the one who you need to bind the most to you and offers you most.
-[X] Take up negotiations for Sansa's betrothal with some of the major Vale houses, preferred outcome here being either Harry Hardying or one of the Royces
-[X] It is a bit too early to make commitments for Arya's betrothal. She's young yet and too willful. But keep on the lookout for good marriage prospects advantageous to the war and who could handle Arya. You want her to be happy, after all, and for a second Lyanna Stark not to happen.
-[X] Try to betroth Bran to Lord Lefford's daughter (see below).
-[X] For Theon, speak to the Mormonts and the Manderlys about a possible betrothal to Theon, but don't push. If one of them is inclined to agree, talk to Theon and convince him that you're doing him a favor, wanting him happy, and rediscovering his heritage by giving him strong allies on the coast. Make it seem like he has a choice (he doesn't, of course). Send a letter to Pyke using Theon's progress as a warrior as pretense (talk about all the things that would impress an Ironborn), casually mention that you shattered the Lannisters and that the Westerlands are almost unprotected now, though do not make it seem like you want Balon to attack them. Perhaps if you don't tell them to attack the Westerlands, but give them the information that they're ripe for the picking, they will attack the Westerlands. Also, fortify the North against possible Ironborn attacks, while you are at it, just in case.
-[X] Betroth Bran to Lord Lefford's daughter. Sweeten the deal by having Lady Whent name Bran her heir. Make it so that when they're married, one son will inherit Harrenhal, one son will inherit the Golden Tooth. Meanwhile, Lord Lefford's daughter should be invited as a lady-in-waiting for Catelyn, so that she might meet her betrothed. Have the Blackfish act in Bran's place until Bran is of age, should direct action be necessary in Harrenhal (should Lady Whent die) or in other such cases.



Thoughts?
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I think Robb is an able commander. But Ned is probably the better general with more experience. If there is more fighting down South he'd do more good there instead of North where the Wildlings and Ironborn are only possible threats.

I don't think this stance of neutrality will work to appease Stannis or Renly. At least not without another threat to the North and Riverlands clearly present.

Sending word to the other Vale houses of Baelish's treachery is all well and good, but we don't have reason to suspect Lysa (even hinting at it). Anything we send to one of the Vale lords we have to assume will get back to her.


I don't think we need to even subtly hint that the Westerlands are ripe for the taking to Balon. Word would have spread about Robb's victories by now.

He may see that for what it is, us trying to subtly encourage him to target them and then he'd do as Balon is wont to do and attack US out of spite.

We just need to make Seagard and our coasts a harder target to keep the Ironborn of our backs.
 
Cteatus said:
Literally anyone else.
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That is not an argument.
ShyGuy said:
Yeah, Robb can do better than a Royce. Regarding marriages we should definitely have someone from our family marry into the North. Got to keep our own bannermen happy. I say have Sansa married or courted by a house from the North and as for Robb I don't know. Not the Royce's though, they really don't bring the Vale with them.
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They are one of the strongest Vale houses, with First Men blood, major power and respect and are closely tied to the Starks, they are one of the best marriages available logically.
I want them to ensure that the Vale can't attack, if they are on our side they can rally support for Ned against her, securing our entire Eastern flank
 
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McLuvin said:
In cannon they still went to attack the Riverlands, I want to loot them for their economy...
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We can do that far more efficiently by ransoming their nobles and extracting reparations. We're already doing one of those things, and are well positioned to do the other.

I'd also like to avoid adding any more atrocities to the tally of this war.
 
[X] Plan: Secure the East, burn the West

Voting for this because it makes sense to marry Sansa in the North to secure it while keeping Robb open for a stronger alliance. Royce is an okay choice. I'd be fine with betrothing him to Shireen if it looks like Stannis has a good chance of winning. He probably does since he can still kill Renly with shadow magic and there won't be Tywin to save King's Landing by raising a host and winning over the Tyrells. If we keep Tyrion with us then they won't think to use wildfire either. I think Robb is about seven years older than Shireen, but it's just a betrothal, not an immediate marriage. It might be necessary to play a more active role in supporting Stannis though, or else he will pissed with us. He is very stubborn, to the point where I'd prefer supporting someone else if Ned wasn't so damn honorable.
 
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Timewarriors said:
Guys I just remember but do we want to do anything with Skagos I mean that a huge island doing nothing.
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Doing anything with Skagos costs too much time. And marrying into there just isn't viable. Even the Northmen think that the Skagosi are barbarians. We'd lose a lot of respect marrying into that, and we can't really do anything else there without major time and resources committed.

spudman said:
I think Robb is an able commander. But Ned is probably the better general with more experience. If there is more fighting down South he'd do more good there instead of North where the Wildlings and Ironborn are only possible threats.

I don't think this stance of neutrality will work to appease Stannis or Renly. At least not without another threat to the North and Riverlands clearly present.

Sending word to the other Vale houses of Baelish's treachery is all well and good, but we don't have reason to suspect Lysa (even hinting at it). Anything we send to one of the Vale lords we have to assume will get back to her.


I don't think we need to even subtly hint that the Westerlands are ripe for the taking to Balon. Word would have spread about Robb's victories by now.

He may see that for what it is, us trying to subtly encourage him to target them and then he'd do as Balon is wont to do and attack US out of spite.

We just need to make Seagard and our coasts a harder target to keep the Ironborn of our backs.
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True, but it is Robb who is feared right now, not Ned. And Ned is injured. The two of them might need to spend some time together discussing their strategies.

As for Stannis and Renly...well, we have some answers if they want us to commit to anything: we need to defend the Riverlands, hunt down rogue Lannister forces and have to defend the Wall. We certainly would like to go help Stannis, but we're sorry. We're already committed to so many places...

Yeah, Stannis and Renly will have bigger problems than us.
 
Driven by Apathy said:
We can do that far more efficiently by ransoming their nobles and extracting reparations. We're already doing one of those things, and are well positioned to do the other.

I'd also like to avoid adding any more atrocities to the tally of this war.
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We can do both and Robb avoided atrocities in canon so that argument makes little sense
 
Driven by Apathy said:
I really don't see what we gain by burning the West. The Lannisters are essentially finished as contenders for the Iron Throne. They'll be too busy just trying to survive to threaten us, even discounting the fact that we have a hostage.

We do have a lot of Westerlander nobles captive though. We can probably leverage that in some way.

"Give" it to the more reasonable clans among the Wildlings to get them out of our hair? House Stark rules Skagos in name only.
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If we can bring the Golden Tooth into the Tully's fold it helps secure the Riverlands border. But I don't think we should attack the Westerlands.

The new Westerland host will have their hands full with the Reach and possibly the Ironborn if Balon decides to go reaving that way. They won't want to start another front with us if they don't have to.
 
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spudman said:
I don't think this stance of neutrality will work to appease Stannis or Renly. At least not without another threat to the North and Riverlands clearly present.
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Renly doesn't care about the North and as long as we don't make trouble for him, he will likely ignore us while dealing with Stannis. If he wins, Stannis is dead, and we simply bend the knee to Renly who will then happily continue to ignore us as long as we don't start any "King in the North" nonsense.

Stannis is not in a position to do anything about us. If he wins, his armies will be exhausted, his hold on the throne will be exceptionally weak, and a Lord Paramount who didn't militarily support him but also isn't actively making trouble for him will be the least of his worries.

And then there are Daenerys and Aegon to consider. Suffice to say we should avoid getting too cozy with either Baratheon.
 
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McLuvin said:
-[X] Send a message to all the Lord and Ladies of the Vale regarding the recent occurrences. Express surprise that Lysa did not come aid her siblings,but understanding that she may not have been able to do so. Proclaim Petyr Baelish to be a traitor who killed Jon Arryn and desires to rule the Vale. Betroth Robb to Ysilla Royce and send the Blackfish with 1000 men to hunt him down.
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First of all, we don't know that Baelish killed Jon Arryn (actually that was Lysa). We think the Lannister's did it. Lysa not coming to our aid is somewhat understandable considering her main priority was Robin. (and Catelyn played some small part in starting this war). Then we make wild accusations about Baelish that we have no proof of. While at the same time seeking to marry Robb to Ysilla Royce and sending a sizable group of soldiers into the Vale to hunt down someone else that according to us "desires to rule the Vale". Sounds more like we are the ones that are seeking a coup.

Also, regarding helping Stannis gain the throne. The army that is the greatest concern right now is down South not in the West.
 
ShyGuy said:
First of all, we don't know that Baelish killed Jon Arryn (actually that was Lysa). We think the Lannister's did it. Lysa not coming to our aid is somewhat understandable considering her main priority was Robin. (and Catelyn played some small part in starting this war). Then we make wild accusations about Baelish that we have no proof of. While at the same time seeking to marry Robb to Ysilla Royce and sending a sizable group of soldiers into the Vale to hunt down someone else that according to us "desires to rule the Vale". Sounds more like we are the ones that are seeking a coup.

Also, regarding helping Stannis gain the throne. The army that is the greatest concern right now is down South not in the West.
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Fixed the Baelish thing, now he's just a traitor who helped Joffrey and betrayed Ned. It was an honest mistake, didn't know how that got in.

And the army down south is part of the Baratheon brothers war. And is taken care of by the Harrenhall garrison, we can't just leave our flanks exposed and as Tywin shows in cannon never wound a lion, kill it
 
McLuvin said:
They are one of the strongest Vale houses, with First Men blood, major power and respect and are closely tied to the Starks, they are one of the best marriages available logically.
I want them to ensure that the Vale can't attack, if they are on our side they can rally support for Ned against her, securing our entire Eastern flank
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Alternatively it can be seen as a First Men plot against those Southern Andals. This is more likely to trigger Lysa than anything else. It has more of a chance at inflaming our Eastern flank than securing it. As long as we don't make threatening moves against the Vale then Lysa is more likely to stay where she is. Ned grew up in the Vale and was well liked there. The chances of them marching against us increase if we do something that makes them paranoid. Like sending 1000 men into the Vale to hunt down a traitor while attempting to marry one of the stronger houses in the Vale.

Edit: Got rid of the Jon Arryn part. I still think that marrying into the Vale causes us nothing but problems.

Also what do we get by marrying into the Vale? Nothing. The Royce's are not likely send us more men because Lysa won't allow it not wanting the Vale to get caught up in the war.
 
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Timewinders said:
[X] Plan: Secure the East, burn the West

Voting for this because it makes sense to marry Sansa in the North to secure it while keeping Robb open for a stronger alliance.
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Burning the West, however, makes no sense at all.

Yeah, there will be some loot. But not much, cows and grain and stuff are difficult to move in bulk and aren't worth that much in any case. What's worse, there will also be considerable loses of men and material. The cost exceeds the gains. The real wealth of the Westerlands is locked away in the treasuries of the Westerlander Lords inside their castles.

The very same Lords of whom we've captured quite a few, and no doubt also family members of many others.

We're far, far better off extracting reparations and ransom money by fully utilizing the spoils of the victories we've already won.
 
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ShyGuy said:
Alternatively it can be seen as a First Men plot against those Southern Andals. This is more likely to trigger Lysa than anything else. It has more of a chance at inflaming our Eastern flank than securing it. As long as we don't make threatening moves against the Vale then Lysa is more likely to stay where she is. Ned grew up in the Vale and was well liked there. The chances of them marching against us increase if we do something that makes them paranoid. Like sending 1000 men into the Vale to hunt down a traitor that we claim killed Jon Arryn while attempting to marry one of the stronger houses in the Vale.
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The whole first men thing is rubbish since it's not a major issue and the Riverlanders are all Andals. The only thing the First Man thing will do will make it easier for the North to accept her.

And if you think Lysa is going to just sit there whilst we chase Baelish and if you think Baelish is going to not try and use his hold on Lysa to stay in the game I cannot see how you think that is possible.

Sending the 1000 men is mitigated by the fact the Blackfish is in charge, a knight of the Eyrie for several years, popular and well respected. And we have a good reason for sending them, besides 1000 men is supposed to be a threat to the Eyrie? That makes no sense, they can raise 30,000 men, a single strong house could smash that force, which is why it's so small, it's not a threat at all.
 
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