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It Belongs to a Museum

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[X] [LEVER] Grief

Hoping to preserve her husbands soul and then let her walk down the path of necromancy on her own pace, while we focus more on the museum and developing her as a contact in other areas.
 
[X] [ACQUIRE] The Dread Abyssal

[X] [LEVER] Power
[X] [LEVER] Prestige

Please not Grief. That kind of offer is not first date material. My preference is Power, but I'll take anything else.
 
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The Phoenixian said:
That, particularly the bolded bit, feels like a really weird issue to pick to me. Another way of saying they both hired us for the same reason is "the same action pleases both parties." Especially when one or both sides know the score. (And we are here as only plausibly deniably Luthor's agent. One side already knows what's up; the other just needs to be filled in)

This is the sort of thing that, when it comes up in the real world, gets described with terms like "collaborative partnership" and "international cooperation." Could there possibly be ways of making one side feel like they got ripped off? Yes. Are there abundant tools to prevent or work around that issue? Also yes.
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No it does not, you are treating pirates and feudal lords like they are modern states. They are most certainly not. The point is personal aggrandizement and for that purpose having another sponsor interested in the same thing is awkward.
 
By word of Boney, the best time to do Grief now (well, was when he had just died, but now is best we can get).
If we want to do it, ever, now is the time.
Argue for other options being better all you want, but the argument that now is not the time is not accurate.
 
Omegahugger said:
While I like that interpretation of Pahtsekhen, it is worth noting that all four options are labelled [LEVER] for a reason.

We're not helping Aelsabrim and her husband out of the goodness of our hearts, we're doing it because she can give access to valuable exhibits we won't otherwise get.
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We have many other ways to repay her help, but we give her what we think is best to assuage her sadness and make her happy. Moreover, for us, this option is combined with some danger that other options do not carry.
In my opinion, this is a pretty good thing to do, to the extent that it is possible in our situation.
 
Money—we keep our relationship purely at the business level, we give her gold, she gives us beasts, nobody asks questions and we both walk away pretending that we haven't tarnished our morals.

Prestige—we offer to have her buy into the museum, elevating her to a position of fame and wonder within Asur society as the splendour of our museum grows.

Power—we guide her as a trusted advisor, helping to elevate her from manipulated pawn to a player of the game that got her assigned to her current position.

Grief—we promise to protect and secure the soul of her husband, offering solace and certainty in a time of despair, along with the potential of claiming the magics used for herself in the future.

All of these are one time offers, we can't be her trusted political advisor and her business partner at the same time, just as we can't be her dark mentor and yet another wealthy customer.

This vote defines the fundamental arc of our relationship with Aelsabrim, and we can't U-turn and take another route at a later date.
 
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The Phoenixian said:
The thing is, Aelsabrim was explicitly marked as a rare capability when it comes to matters of royal connections.

Other sources of acquisitions can be expected to show up, especially if she pivots out of that role, but her connection to royalty and high society and the kinds of stories it provides cannot and should not be counted on occurring again. At the very least not in the form it does now.

If you want a deeply personal connection more than one between institutions (And a story of true love that defies even death~) then that is the reason that option exists, and Grief is a good pick.

My argument here is that that goes all ways, and whichever relationship is built first should be expected to be the focus for the foreseeable future.

There's a bunch of prospective stories here but I find it a bit offputting to read arguments that we can expect to have our cake and eat it too with any choice when we're explicitly warned that the opposite is a real risk. My choice in that, then, is that I could come to enjoy the shipping goggles of necromancyTM​, but I want to be Uncle Nyarlathotep more.

I want to be the stranger who swept in from the deserts of mysterious lands and came to the halls of knowledge. I want to be the one who upended conventional knowledge with new and exciting(old and forgotten) tales. I want to be the one who drove a generation of scholars at least slightly mad with new insights(ancient secrets). But in a campy fun way, befitting a pirate-faction villain, rather than with the dreadful inevitability of a cosmic-horror villain. I want to belong in a song written and played by the Darkest of the Hillside Thickets.

It being tied into a story where the legitimacy of the museum and its host state means other nations at the table just shrug and nod along and say that "oh, yeah, that happens sometimes," as would tie into Arathnorn's statement isn't quite as core to me personally, but is a very fun addition and a close companion in tone.

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EDIT: I don't know whether I'm going too far here or not or delivering this well or poorly. To lay everything out as clearly as I can, there was an issue early on in the vote where people were arguing to vote for something other than Grief in the idea that they could get it first, and expect to pick it up later, and my assumption was that it worked both ways in that regard.

My intent is partially to correct that and say to "understand what you really want, and then vote for what you really want," and partially to sell the option of Prestige and it's appeal to me in hopes it resonates with others. I am obviously heavily biased here, but I think that's not really a problem in and of itself as long as those biases are clear to all. Please, feel free to correct me if I am wrong in any part of all that.
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Well, this sold me.

[X] [LEVER] Prestige
and maintaining my vote for
[X] [ACQUIRE] Awakening Armoury - Ranged
 
Omegahugger said:
While I like that interpretation of Pahtsekhen, it is worth noting that all four options are labelled [LEVER] for a reason.

We're not helping Aelsabrim and her husband out of the goodness of our hearts, we're doing it because she can give access to valuable exhibits we won't otherwise get.
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I mean, those aren't mutually exclusive. Using it as leverage to further our goals doesn't necessarily mean we can't also be doing it out of a genuine desire to help her. Killing two birds with one stone and all that.
 
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Omegahugger said:
While I like that interpretation of Pahtsekhen, it is worth noting that all four options are labelled [LEVER] for a reason.

We're not helping Aelsabrim and her husband out of the goodness of our hearts, we're doing it because she can give access to valuable exhibits we won't otherwise get.
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To add to this, Pahtsekhen is a character who was introduced as explicitly having every single expression and sign of life under his total and complete conscious control. To the point where emotions very explicitly don't come into it unless he means them to.

So I was very much struck by the thought that this entire update, every expression, ever bit of personality in body language, every half suppressed smile is something he affected because that's what he wanted people to see.

There can be honesty in that — the best way to convince someone with a good story is to tell one that's also are true, after all — but it's worth remembering every little bit of that is a deliberate choice. In fact, it strikes me that, appropriately to our format, reading his body language may have a lot more in common with deciphering the intent and perspectives of someone writing a book, than it does with normal body language.

------------

...Also, now that our paths appear to be diverging would it be wrong to define our camps at this point as the Nyarlathotep-ists vs the Nec-Romantics?

Since my jam here is advocating the spread of Knowledge Man Was Not Meant to Know, and a number of related aesthetics I can't fully condense into a phrase, where as yours is... well, everyone knows*, and I think the pun itself is fairly self-explanatory.

*everyone except the scholars reading this post ten thousand years from now and screaming in frustration
 
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Shanty: Teach Her, Uncle New
  • Media
    • Oh, his death was hard and her spirits are low,
    (Teach her, Uncle, teach her!)
    There's so much she has yet to know
    (And it's time for us to teach her!)

    Beware these elven gods, I say!
    (Teach her, Uncle, teach her!)
    They'll steal his soul and your heart away
    (And it's time for us to teach her!)

    Teach her, Uncle, teach her
    Oh teach her, Uncle, teach her
    For his spirit's not gone, and the Winds doth blow
    and it's time for us to teach her

    I thought I heard young Lutr say
    (Teach her, Patsekh, teach her!)
    But he remembered her not the very next day
    (And it's time for us to teach her!)


    She would not leave and she could not stay
    (Teach her, Uncle, teach her!)
    Now she raids with her beloved husband dread wraith
    (And it's time for us to teach her!)
    Teach her, Uncle, teach her

    Oh teach her, Uncle, teach her
    For his spirit's not gone, and the Winds doth blow
    and it's time for us to teach her

    Most exhibits revolve around the dead
    (Teach her, Uncle, teach her!)
    While the tour guide is a severed head
    (And it's time for us to teach her!)


    The gift shops are closed, our work is done
    (Teach her, Uncle, teach her!)
    and soon we investigate Karag Dum
    (And it's time for us to teach her!)
    Teach her, Uncle, teach her
    Oh teach her, Uncle, teach her
    For his spirit's not gone, and the Winds doth blow
    and it's time for us to teach her







    Maybe late, the idea struck yesterday then I got derailed.
     
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    Magda Wessen & the Museum of Mystery New
  • Apocrypha
    • What was once a stately captain quarters, now cloaked in darkness and grime, yet somehow no less grand. Upon the large desk, resting on top a cloth the colour of dried blood, rests a leather bound book. Under an icon of an eye-patch wearing skull, crossed by blade and staff, is the title of the tome: MAGDA WESSEN & THE MUSEUM OF MYSTERY
    DISPATCHED by her SUPERIORS within the ARCANE UNIVERSITY, KNIGHT-WIZARD MAGDA WESSEN sails across the WORLD'S END OCEAN on a MISSION of DEEPEST IMPORT! An ANCIENT RELIC of TRENENDOUS POWER has been located, and must BE RETURNED to the UNIVERSTIY'S SHADOW VAULTS! But the RELIC rests in the WRINKLED HANDS of the MAD CURATOR PANTSENHEN, an UNLIVING CLERIC of the CRYPT LORDS! MANY have TRIED to STEAL from HIS MUSEUM OF MYSTERTY, but NONE have ESCAPE to TELL THE TALE!

    ARRIVING on the HIDDEN ISLE of BURNING LIZARD ATOLL, MAGDA is SWIFTLY CAPTURED by the CHIROPTERIAN CARTAKERS of the MUSEUM! PANTSENHEN FORESAW MAGDA's attempted HEIST - INDEED, he has LONG has his WIZENED EYE UPON on the KNIIGHT-WIZARD, seeing her as a PRIZED ADDITON to his COLLECTION! For the TRUE FATE of all ATTEMPTED THIEVES is to BECOME PART of the VERY EXHIBITS they tried to pilfer from - EITHER in LIFE OR DEATH!

    MAGDA will have to use all her CHARM and WIT to UNITE a DISPARATE GROUP of ALLIES and FOES, and NAVIGATE the EVERCHANGING LABYRINTH of the MUSEUM! FOR it's CURATOR is NEVER SATISFIED, and MAY YET DECIDE that his NEWEST STAR ACQUISITION should be PUT AWAY - PERMANENTLY! Can MAGDA ESCAPE, or shall SHE be RELAGTED to the HISTORICAL DISPLAY?
    I had to. Also posting on the DL Thread, for those that might not have joined this one (yet)
     
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  • Apocrypha
    • Oh no, everybody is jumping into Grief, with Prestige and Power being 2nd and 3rd.

    IMO as a story choice it's too cheap to go for grief and undeath immediately; temptations work best when they lurk in the corner of the room, quietly tempting but unnoticed, ever present yet not crass or immediately obvious.
    Grief also does not give us the best bang for our buck, related to the Museum. Prestige does.

    The fact that our museum is on an Island is suprisingly advantageous: it allows us to mantain the polite fiction that we are not exactly inside a Vampire Pirate's lair. It opens the door to a joint venture with any powers that are not blinded by their own scruples. And if we start with Colonial Asur... who knows what else may be kindly hosted and collaborating with us?

    [X] [LEVER] Prestige

    [X] [ACQUIRE] Lizard Trinkets
    [X] [ACQUIRE] Fleet of Hulks
     
    The Phoenixian said:
    To add to this, Pahtsekhen is a character who was introduced as explicitly having every single expression and sign of life under his total and complete conscious control. To the point where emotions very explicitly don't come into it unless he means them to.

    So I was very much struck by the thought that this entire update, every expression, ever bit of personality in body language, every half suppressed smile is something he affected because that's what he wanted people to see.

    There can be honesty in that — the best way to convince someone with a good story is to tell one that's also are true, after all — but it's worth remembering every little bit of that is a deliberate choice. In fact, it strikes me that, appropriately to our format, reading his body language may have a lot more in common with deciphering the intent and perspectives of someone writing a book, than it does with normal body language.

    ------------

    ...Also, now that our paths appear to be diverging would it be wrong to define our camps at this point as the Nyarlathotep-ists vs the Nec-Romantics?

    Since my jam here is advocating the spread of Knowledge Man Was Not Meant to Know, and a number of related aesthetics I can't fully condense into a phrase, where as yours is... well, everyone knows*, and I think the pun itself is fairly self-explanatory.

    *everyone except the scholars reading this post ten thousand years from now and screaming in frustration
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    To be fair (and I may be wrong), I don't know that many people advocating for Grief are doing so primarily out of investment in the Fallenstars' relationship. The angle is closer to a desire to play the role of sympathetic tutor in helping out a potential student in the most immediate and comprehensive way possible, using and spreading the tools that he is expert in, which just happen to be powerful death magic! It's also a sharing of knowledge, just with a personal, character-focused approach rather than a myth-making one.

    Netos said:
    temptations work best when they lurk in the corner of the room, quietly tempting but unnoticed, ever present yet not crass or immediately obvious.
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    Worth clarifying that this is what Grief is trying to do. Pahtsekhen would be offering to build a tomb for Princess Fallenstar's husband and shelter his spirit precisely so that the temptation is subtle but ever-present, as the description for the option notes. The alternative is letting it fade into the Elven afterlife and thus being able to offer far less of a temptation whenever it's brought up in future.
     
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    Netos said:
    Oh no, everybody is jumping into Grief, with Prestige and Power being 2nd and 3rd.

    IMO as a story choice it's too cheap to go for grief and undeath immediately; temptations work best when they lurk in the corner of the room,     quietly tempting but unnoticed, ever present yet not crass or immediately obvious.
    Grief also does not give us the best bang for our buck, related to the Museum. Prestige does.

    The fact that our museum is on an Island is suprisingly advantageous: it allows us to mantain the polite fiction that we are not exactly inside a Vampire Pirate's lair. It opens the door to a joint venture with any powers that are not blinded by their own scruples. And if we start with Colonial Asur... who knows what else may be kindly hosted and collaborating with us?

    [X] [LEVER] Prestige

    [X] [ACQUIRE] Lizard Trinkets
    [X] [ACQUIRE] Fleet of Hulks
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    By word of Boney, if we want to go for undead elf husband, we should do it now.
    If you prefer options other than undead elf husband, sure, vote for those instead.
    But the argument that it is too soon has bee n invalidated.

    Also, we are building a museum for Luther Harkon, to glorify Luther Harkon, possibly including the actual literal ship of Luthor Harkon.
    Nobody is going to believe we are not deeply involved with *quickly double checks notes* Luthor Harkon.

    Also, as someone lready pointed out, joint ventures like this are not really the name of the game.
    Luthor Harkon wants to make it clear for everyone that HE is the top vampirate here, that kind puts a tamper in sharing the spot light.
     
    Nimbus said:
    To be fair (and I may be wrong), I don't know that many people advocating for Grief are doing so primarily out of investment in the Fallenstars' relationship. The angle is closer to a desire to play the role of sympathetic tutor in helping out a potential student in the most immediate and comprehensive way possible, using and spreading the tools that he is expert in, which just happen to be powerful death magic! It's also a sharing of knowledge, just with a personal, character-focused approach rather than a myth-making one.
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    Mhm. I don't think that's a bad approach to want to make, if that's your preference. Certainly there's far more indication that Pahtsekhen likes and cares for his students on a significant level than that they're purely tools to him. (After all, It would be far easier to throw them under the bus if his perspective was of them as tools rather than people he cared for in some way.)

    It's just a thing where the protagonist will be a guy putting on an act at every moment. Since on a certain level that's all his body is capable of.

    It's deliberate in the same way that, for instance, every word written in a forum post is deliberate. Some of it is true, some of it is performative. Some things are harder to hide or lie about than others, and some things like one's own perspective, how one sees the world, is nigh-impossible to keep out of it. But it's still all deliberate.
     
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